Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
@Lambert: How has 4 fetches been? I havent tried using more than 3. You know what I think about Volraths stonghold. Ive thought about LFtL, but I dont think it is worth it. Maybe if we had wastelands or manlands or something, but I dont think it is needed. Also, it got worse with DRS. And idk about you, but thoughtsieze is probably my most wished for target besides scapewish. Id cut a red blast or GY hate card or slaughter games before I cut thoughtsieze.
@Moat vs Humilty: those cards do totally different things. Moat straight up wins some match ups like goblins, or can stall jund/junk/mav for a long time. Humility is basically only useful against Emrakul/griselbrand decks. You dont want it against KotR or delver decks, your creatures are better than theirs, and they play more creatures than you. Moat is really really good, I didnt have it for a little while, and my deck sucked cause of it. After some discussion and testing I found the next best thing this probably dueling grounds (althoughv decay can hit that now so idk anymore).
Also, something I have been thinking about but havent really delved too deep into: can we do better than deed? Deeds ability to shit on the format is what brought me to this archtype, but lately it seems a bit lack luster. I think decay is the reason for this. Decay hits it if we are at 3-5 mana and have to cast deed and pass. We have decay ourselves now to deal with equipments and sylvan libraries and other non-creature game changers deed used to be needed for.
What if instead of 3 deeds, and the 2-3 decays a lot of people have been running, we use 2-3 damnations, 2-3 decays, for basically any version of nic fit. Rector would still want a deed for sure, but I think this might be worth trying. Im going to test it out, but if anyone beats me to it let me know how it feels. I think this might greatly improve our GBx matchups, MAYBE at the cost of weakening our UWx matchups.
Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
I played two more Trials with the Punishing list. In the first I went 1-1 after beating Belcher and then losing to Jund. The second Trial I beat Jund and Loam and then was in a winning position against Jund (1-0 up, empty board with Top and a lot of Mana on my side and I was about to start Recurring Nightmare) when my Internet decided to give up so I was out, overall another 4-1 which puts the list at 7-1 at Magic League, though my opponents did make a couple of mistakes that you can't expect in a real tournament.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kabards
by the way here's my updated list of Punishing Nic-Fit that i used last January 6, 2013.
Punishing Nic-Fit
*list*
I think you run too much removal and not enough win conditions in your list. I don't like Scavenging Oozes in a format where Abrupt Decay is so popular. It is very easy to become completely immune to a card that you are very likely going to face. In most games the opponents reaction will be "Finally he plays something for this Abrupt Decay/Swords to Plowshares that has been sitting dead in my hand the entire game" when you play Scavenging Ooze. I had enough Wolf and Beast tokens decayed to know better than to run Ooze MD.
In comparison I run 2 additional Thragtusks, 2 Nightmares, an additional Witness, and a Primeval Titan and I rarely felt it was too much. Even decks like Jund, Maverick or aggressive BUG decks can often handle a surprising amount of stuff. Titan wins games against Control decks. They can usually handle a single Broodmate without much problem in G1 and you will have to find another way to win. But if you get additional Groves they will be the ones who have to come up with something special that they usually won't have in G1.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TheArchitect
Also, something I have been thinking about but havent really delved too deep into: can we do better than deed? Deeds ability to shit on the format is what brought me to this archtype, but lately it seems a bit lack luster. I think decay is the reason for this. Decay hits it if we are at 3-5 mana and have to cast deed and pass. We have decay ourselves now to deal with equipments and sylvan libraries and other non-creature game changers deed used to be needed for.
What if instead of 3 deeds, and the 2-3 decays a lot of people have been running, we use 2-3 damnations, 2-3 decays, for basically any version of nic fit. Rector would still want a deed for sure, but I think this might be worth trying. Im going to test it out, but if anyone beats me to it let me know how it feels. I think this might greatly improve our GBx matchups, MAYBE at the cost of weakening our UWx matchups.
I like a couple of Damntions but I would still not advocate to cut Deed. A split between the two is the best. Damnation is faster, doesn't die to Stifle or to Pridemage/Decay when you don't have enough mana to use it the same turn and it gets Tombstalkers. But Deed is still a little bit better I think. It doesn't kill your own Thragtusks/Huntmaster and Titans which is quite often relevant. It also wipes the board EoT so you can be the first to commit to the board again. It gets those Vials, Sylvan Libraries and Equipments in one sweep and thus saves your Decays for creatures. Being one turn faster with easier Mana against Empty the Warrens tokens can also matter. And last but not least Deed is still MvP against random decks like Enchantress, Staxx, Dredge. Both have their advantages so a split is the correct answer.
Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
I tied for 2nd place at a local event using the following list:
Creatures (17)
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Wall of Blossoms
2 Eternal Witness
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Fierce Empath
1 Thragtusk
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Sun Titan
1 Grave Titan
1 Angel of Despair
Spells (21)
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Thoughtseize
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Vindicate
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Pernicious Deed
Lands (22)
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Phyrexian Tower
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
2 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains
Sideboard (15)
2 Thoughtseize
2 Duress
2 Memoricide
2 Extirpate
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Maelstrom Pulse
0-2 vs. Rock (Flooded both games after a mull to 6)
2-1 vs. DnT (lost a match to 2X Leonin Arbiter + Ghost Quarters)
2-1 vs. UR Talrand Control
2-0 vs. BUG Control
I spent a lot of time thinking about Blossoms vs. Sakura/Ranger and finally opted for Blossoms because it is a great blocker pre-Deed and its ability is good all game long. Fun fact: I sided the same way in all four of my matches (-2 TS, -1 Teeg, +2 Decay, +1 Pulse). Also, I play 4 Deeds in nearly all of my Nic Fit decks and I wouldn't change that any time soon, especialy with Sun Titan availlable.
Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
I'm still working on my report from Columbus -- it should be up later today, so check back around 10am-12am EST for that.
Just wanted to note that after my experiences in the Legacy Challenge Saturday night with Rector, I'm strongly considering the 4th Deed as the mystery 61st card. Every single game I lost except one (and I lost a lot of them [0-3 drop, although two of those rounds were 1-2]) was because I just literally couldn't draw a Deed when I needed it. I think that some of that was also my bad luck purging itself before the big day, because there were definitely things that happened that should never, ever happen: like I played against a probably 65-card mirror. He had Leyline of the Void x3 in his board, which gives him an enormous edge in the mirror (although I believe that other, less specialized hate is better for vs the rest of the metagame). Game three I kept a batshit hand if he doesn't have a leyline, and a strong hand if he does. It was like Explorer, Tower, Bayou, Forest, Pulse, [card], [card]. I think one of the cards might have been a Sigarda? Anyway, he has the Leyline, and within the first three turns, we've both played BOTH of our Towers, which, being legendary, is a strip mine. The problem is that I then proceed to never draw another land for the rest of the 6-8 turns that I was alive. Having -both- of my Towers legend-ruled locked me off of the three mana for Pulse, which would have made my Explorers live again.
But yeah, funny stories aside, every other game, I lost because I couldn't hit a Deed. And in most of those cases, it HAD to be a Deed. Like, Damnation is fine as a sideboard slot and all, but maindeck, you -need- the artifact removal. If I had Damnation'd my Rock opponent, it wouldn't have mattered because Sword of Feast/Famine and Jitte would have still been in play. You need to be able to answer the various potent artifacts and enchantments that are floating around. To say nothing of how useless Damnation is vs Miracles.
Also, good job@both Tao and Qweerios!
Now, back to writing...
Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
Just to the whole thread, has anyone ever considered trying to stuff Punishing and Scapeshift into the same deck? It might be the worst idea I've ever had, but It just doesn't seem terrible.
Went 1-1-1 last night at a local tuesday night magic. Esper Blade, Esper Blade, Manaless Dredge were my matches.
R1 versus Blade was pretty tight, but I lost 1-2 I believe. This was the first time I really tried committing to the idea of siding out Burning Wish. Pulled in pulse #3 REB and I think slaughter games. Tried my best to run around Jace, but didn't get there. Tried a beat down plan on game 3, but 2 vet explorers and no GSZ/Tusk just doesn't work out.
R2 versus Blade was sick. I can't gloat to hard, because he runs a jank version of Blade (shock lands, no FOW, Geist of Saint Taft), but there was a flip top -> REB in game 3 that felt awesome. He misplayed pretty hard into a deeds @ 3 on his entire board, but I did shift him down from 25 on 8 lands ^^; Double valakut shift is cool.
R3 versus Manaless (this guy's a friend of mine so we split to get 1 pack each). On G1 he played slow but got there, I just couldn't find the right cards (I think I mulled to 4 look for a cabal). G2 was fun. I sided out deeds/wishes, and side in pulse #3, shift #3, reanimate, damnation, and 3 slaughter games. The idea was if I could land a slaughter games on his Dread Return, that would shut down his primary combo, and his beat down clock wouldn't be fast enough to out play shift combo. He got a somewhat slow hand/draw, I windmilled Reanimate on G-Brand and passed the turn. He didn't see the business he needed so he passed back.
Now, I made a big ol play mistake here. I SHOULD have swung g-brand and drew 7 looking for that slaughter games. Instead (like the newb I am) I hard cast thragtusk, tapping myself out. In the 7 was Damnation, and Slaughter Games. If I had just held the mana open, cast slaughter on his dread returns, and passed back I'm almost positive I would have closed the game next turn. (draw 7, shift lethal, LOLOLOLOL).
Anyway, can't wait to see the tournament report Kevin! I'm really looking forward to seeing your SB choices, it's the hardest thing I find with this deck. That and a little bit of luck that's never on my side.
Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
Okay, report time. I played Scapewish, as per the list in my sig (which will have been updated by the time you read this). It's the same list as it was, except I added in a Blitz Hellion and a Volrath's Stronghold in place of the 2x Abrupt Decay / Olivia / whatever else slots, and after having cut the deck down to a flat 60.
The event starts a little after 10am, with almost 350 players participating!
R1: Andrew with Death and Taxes.
Game one he plays a bunch of irrelevant small white creatures, including a Mirran Crusader, which is actually scary. Luckily, I have mountains. And they're furious. Note that he was at 19 when I Scapeshifted, because DnT doesn't run fetches and doesn't hurt itself as much as most decks as a result.
I don't board.
Game two I mull to 5. He has Wasteland->Vial, I have basic Mountain, pass. He ticks up his Vial, plays another Wasteland, and passes. I rip a land off the top (Bayou), and play it to Cabal Therapy him naming Revoker, seeing Thalia, Swords, Jitte, and Mangara. He wastes my Bayou, ticks up Vial (to 2) and passes. I rip another dual (Taiga), but can't do anything meaningful. He Vials in Thalia, wastes me, drops his Jitte, and beats me to death before I can hit another land. IIRC he Vialed up to 3 to put in his Mangara to eat my mountain, too. Blergh.
Game three is a short and brutal affair. I hit a Revoker with an early Therapy, seeing 2x Crusader, Stoneforge, Port, Canopy, and Vial. I take away his Crusaders on the flashback, and he drops Stoneforge to find Sword of pro-my deck (Feast/Famine). He gets me to 12 before dying to Primeval Titan -> Scapeshift.
R2: Roger with Miracles
My notes for game one as such and as follows: Me: 20, 22, 28. Him: 20. 0.
(Huntmaster, Primeval getting Swords'd).
I blind Therapied him on t1 on the play, naming Brainstorm. I hit one, and he reveals the following hand: Counterspell, Terminus, Entreat, Strand, Island, Verdict. That's a really good hand .... with Brainstorm. Without his Brainstorm, he just durdles around while I kill him.
I boarded in the 2x Slaughter Games and 3x REB. I took the Hellion out, and otherwise I shaved, taking out a pair of Explorers, a Therapy, and a Green Sun so that I could Wish for it (Wish for GSZ to find Primeval to find Valakuts).
Game two I hit a fast Slaughter Games, naming Jace TMS. I remove those, and see Geist of St Straft, Entreat, Envelop, and a Top in his hand. I also see that he has a pair of Baneslayers and 2 more Geists in his deck, alongside with the usual Cliques and Snaps. The Envelop in his hand stops me from Scapeshifting him, so I go on the Primeval Titan plan and punch him with the titan and his mountains.
R3: Kurtis with UWr Faeries
Game one, he buries me under a sea of disruption. I don't hit any Therapies or ramp, and he just runs me over with Stoneforge'd up Spellstutters and Cliques.
I board in the REBs.
Game two is a lot closer, but I still don't see any ramp. I do Therapy him after he Stoneforges for a Feast/Famine, naming the revealed Sword. I see Force, Jace, 2 Sprites, and a Strand. I manage to kill his first Jace, but he hits a 2nd and proceeds to fateseal me into oblivion. I draw a Huntmaster when Jace is at 13, and scoop 'em up.
R4: Chris with Belcher.
The miracle round.
He wins the die roll, tanks and mulls. He keeps his six. He leads with Lotus Petal, and I know immediately that this is not going somewhere happy. He makes a ton of mana, casts and activates Belcher. I'm just about ready to put my hand back in my deck, but I stop myself and make him flip it out. 6 cards down is the Taiga. The degrees of my mental fistpump will likely never be repeated within this lifetime.
I proceed to curve out (smacking him with Hellion along the way), while he draws not-Lions Eye Diamonds.
Upon consideration, I bring in the Thoughtseize from the sideboard, cutting Primeval Titan. My rationale is that I'd rather have the 5th discard spell in my deck, and that it will be more useful there than as a 3-mana spell later in the game, whereas Primeval would never be useful in this matchup.
Game two I keep the anti-combo nuts. Double Therapy, Explorer, Green Sun, Bayou, Forest, Scapeshift.
He git probes me on t1, but doesn't draw the kill. I lead with Therapy on LED, and hit one, seeing 2x Petal, Rite of Flame, Tinder Wall, Seething Song, Land Grant. He draws and passes back, and I go nuts. I strip away his Petals, seeing a topdecked LED, then I strip the LED, followed by the Land Grant. I'm not sure if Land Grant is right or not at that point, but I figured it could let him get his Taiga out so that it isn't 6-cards down this time, and I didn't want him casting Tinder Wall with it. Anyway, he bricks his draw and I scapeshift on my turn 3 for the kill.
R5: Alex with Miracles
He mulls to 5 game one, and I lead with Therapy on Brainstorm. I see Counterbalance, 2x Pierce, Glacial, Tundra, Island -- pretty decent 5. I don't recall exactly what ended up happening, but his life goes to 13 and stops there while I sit at 20, so I'm assuming that I shift him out at some point, with no Huntmasters or Tusks along the way.
I use the same boarding plan as before, except I leave the Hellion in. I believe I cut down to 3x Wish in order to leave it in.
I land an early Slaughter Games in g2, taking out his Jaces. As I look through his deck, I take note that he doesn't have the Geists and Baneslayers that Roger had earlier in the day, which makes this a much more comfortable matchup for me. His hand is 3x Swords, Snapcaster, and something else that I can't read my own handwriting to tell what it was -.-
A turn or two later I draw a Burning Wish, and I REALLY want to Wish for Therapy to nuke his 3x Swords, then go beatdown. But I realize while thinking about it that this is A: a cute line of play and doesn't actually win me the game the same way Slaughter Gamesing his Entreats does, and B: essentially meaningless because he has a Snapcaster anyway. As such, I sigh and make the good play instead of the funny one. I slam down Slaughter Games #2 and strip out his Entreats. At this point he has to try to beatdown with Snaps and Cliques, against my Huntmasters and Thragtusks. This does not go very well for him, and he succumbs thereafter.
R6: Feature match on Camera vs Reese with Mono-blue Nivmagus.dec.
This thing was scary as fuck to play against. I basically tried to treat it like I do U/R Delver, which is to say that your life-gain dudes are all-important. Play around their Dazes, but force them to use their Pierces. You can't realistically play around Pierce AND Daze, and paying 3 more for something important is horrible. That's why I ran the Green Sun into the Pierce I KNEW he had in his hand in g2. At that point, Green Sun is a discard spell. You need to force them to spend their resources on things that they don't REALLY want to counter, but that they -have- to.
If anyone has specific questions on this match, fire away -- not going to really summarize since it's recorded. I will note two things:
1. I brought in 3x Red Blast (obviously), and I also brought in the Innocent Blood, which was probably a mistake. I remember being worried about the likelihood of him having Snares, and I already knew that he had probably a full set of Pierce and Flusterstorm maindeck, so Wish was already questionable. But even so, having 4 Bloods that cost 3 was probably better than having 1 Blood that cost 1. Either way, /shrug. I do not remember exactly what I boarded out, unfortunately. I need to start writing this shit down after the match lol.
2. My opening hand game one was a slow hand, but it had -everything- that I needed. It had the Wish as an answer for anything -- if he's on RUG, I wish for Innocent Blood and wreck his day. If he's on BUG, I had like 3 or 4 lands to resist his wasteland plan, along with the lategame power. Same for Junk. When I sat down across from Reese, I got the vibe from him that he was playing a fair deck....probably a Liliana one. Obviously I was incorrect, but it is what it is. You can't read everyone correctly 100% of the time, sadly. I will freely admit that Pyroclasm saved my ass in g1, and has more than earned its slot.
R7: James with High Tide.
One mono-blue deck into another. As an aside, if anyone here ever gets an on-camera feature match and then wins it, let me forewarn you that it is one of the most amazing feelings ever. I was riding so high after that that I felt literally unstoppable. I almost was =(
Once again, I get the fair deck vibe from James as we amicably chat before the game, so I am very surprised after a few turns when I realize that he's on High Tide. As it turns out, he borrowed his deck from a friend. Welp.
My hand is amazingly non-vs-combo, with like Deeds and Huntmasters and shit, and he combos me off in quick fashion.
Obviously the red blasts come in here, as do the Slaughter Games. Two of the Deeds come out, in addition to Thragtusk x2 and Primeval Titan. Easy board is easy. I like boarding out Explorers vs High Tide usually, but the printing of Slaughter Games changed that a bit. Now we have something that we NEED 4 mana for, that they can't just derpcounter. If they have 5 lands on turn 3, it doesn't really matter if they don't have Time Spiral in their deck anymore.
Game two he keeps a shaky hand with a fuckton of cantrips. After sputtering a bit, he gets his land drops rolling while I therapy him, seeing 2x Scrolls, a Force, and a Blue Sun. Unfortunately, I don't want to flashback my Therapy because that would mean saccing an Explorer and digging him out of his mana hole. He burns a Scroll for a High Tide, but I cast Slaughter Games next turn and he scoops in the face of it.
Game three it's my turn to get mana screwed. I end up ripping his hand apart with Therapy and actually having to set off an Explorer, leaving him with Scroll and Turnabout in hand. I had a Slaughter Games that he had seen off of Gitaxian Probe, and I had also Burning Wished for Tsunami the turn I set off my Explorer. This leaves him understandably terrified. He Scrolls for High Tide, casts it, Turnabouts his lands, and slams down Preordain. Hail Mary, full of grace.
He bricks his Preordain, and I'm 6-1.
R8: Brenden with FUCK MY LIFE.
If I had won this round, I very likely would have been able to ID into the top 8 in round 9. My confidence is overwhelming. I'm playing well, and from scouting the people around my bracket, there was a ton of fair decks and a few Show and Tells that I don't especially want to see, but can probably beat. Well, I managed to miss Brenden in my scouting. He leads Ancient Tomb, pass, and I'm already concerned. My hand is good, but doesn't have black mana. It does have an Explorer and a Wood Elves, though, so I figure I'm okay. Next turn he slams Metalworker, and I'm pretty sure I just slumped in my chair a bit. Scapewish does not beat Metalworker without Pulverize in the sideboard, period, and I didn't have the Pulverize because Metalworker is a super-specific deck, and not something that you usually expect to see at the top tables because of the inherent instability of the deck. It usually falls apart long before round 8.
Anyway, I do something inconsequential, and then he activates Metalworker on his turn showing me Platinum Emperion, Steel Hellkite, Lodestone, Forgemaster, and a Mox Opal. He proceeds to cast virtually his whole hand, and you can guess what happens from there.
I think I brought in the Thoughtseize here, taking out some random card. That's the unfortunate extent of what I can do, though =(
Game two I have double Explorer, while he has like a turn 3 Battlesphere, as well as Chalice@1 and Chalice@3. Naturally my hand is full of 1- and 3- drops, and I continue drawing more. Like, Chalice@3 is the correct thing to do because Deed, but fuck man, I had both of my Wood Elves in my hand when he dropped it :|
I double block his Battlesphere to try to lessen the chances of me drawing dead, because at this point Scapeshift is my only out and I know it. He's at 12 from his Ancient Tombs, so it's not a question of range. I brick my draw, and he uses Forgemaster to make a Sundering Titan on his turn, which knocks me firmly out of Scapeshift range -- which doesn't matter, because I brick another draw anyway.
X-2 =(
R9: John with Goblins. He tries to get me to ID so that both of us are locked for top 32, but I decide that I want to at least get as close to top 8 as I can even if I can't get there anymore. So, I dreamcrush in the process.
He leads with Lackey, I lead with Explorer. Broken 1-drops, ho!
He chooses not to swing into my Explorer, and just sits back making some goblins. I eventually land the jesus christ of all Pyroclasms, sweeping his board and setting off double Explorer triggers on my side (he already had both of his basics out....awkward). He's never even in the game from this point, as I have Deeds, Huntmasters, Thragtusks, and da beats. I actually miss an opportunity to kill him with Blitz Hellion, where I attack with a Thragtusk and then Zenithed post combat for something stupid. I realized belatedly that if I'd just Zenithed Hellion, he would have been dead. Oh well. Going to take me a while to remember that.
No board here.
Game two I own his life with Huntmasters. I just keep flipping them back and forth , making dudes, gaining life, and slaughtering his board. Eventually Deed happens, although I'm careful to flip my Huntmaster back to a 4-drop first. He dies quickly thereafter.
So, I finish at 7-2. If it was a GP, I'd have Day 2'd, at least! Still good for 14th place and $100, and some small number of invitational points.
So, the two specific changes: Hellion and Stronghold.
Hellion was sad all day, because I didn't play against a single Liliana of the Veil. There were tons of them in the room, but the reason for his existence just didn't come to me. So, I can't really say how amazing it is -- all I did with it really was punch Belcher in the face for 7 and miss a chance to kill someone with it. I like having the option in the deck, though, and I think that it will continue to possess that slot for the foreseeable future until I get a better read on it.
Volrath's Stronghold was activated once. I don't remember the circumstances, but I remember that it was to put a Huntmaster back in my deck. There were a few times where I assembled Two Towers, but it just was never necessary. Like, It was a nice option to have available, but the circumstances were never right for me to actually use it. I'll leave it in the deck for now, but I'm still unconvinced of its necessity. Witnessing every turn is one of my favorite things to do in long, grindy matchups, though, because it gives you essentially infinite inevitability, and Stronghold (with Tower) does give Scapewish a way to do that. So, I dunno.
I've got Mythic on Saturday, but I'm not sure what I'm playing yet. I might take a break from Nic Fit for an event before returning to it for Jupiter -- but at the same time, I want to do well at Mythic so that I can finish my set of Goyf and pick up Show and Tells for 12post, lol. So, I dunno. We'll see what I feel like doing as I get closer to the event.
I'll close with a exciting new development from Gatecrash:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attac...7&d=1357707768
This thing gives me hope for BUG Fit FINALLY getting ironed out. That's a Zenithable draw spell, ladies and gentlemen. A big one. Like, that thing strictly replaces Consecrated Sphinx as an option. Note that the way its worded interacts favorably with priority -- once we Green Sun it, they can't just be like derp Swords your Thragtusk in response, or anything. It enters with the 5 counters (or however many) already on it. So, with a Thragtusk in play, let's say, we draw 6 cards and get a 6/6 for 7 mana. That seems PERFECTLY fine to me. I'm not sure of the shell yet, but Zegana sounds exactly like that the deck wanted.
Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
Nice report! Thanks for sharing.
That turn 3 win against belcher must have felt awesome.
Running into MUD sucks, but I still think pulverize probably isnt worth a slot for that one matchup. I think having access to 2-3 decays would help improve this match slightly though. It hits metalwork/revoker, and can punch through chalices. Ive been playing basically your list just -1 hellion, -1 land, +2 Decay and liking the decays a lot.
I tried out swapping damnation for deed for a bit. It was really nice against BGx decks, but I think deed is still probably better in the long run. Or maybe a split even, because it was a lot better than deed at some points. I think if I was playing a more control heavy BG or BUG list, I would want definitely want like 2-3 or 2-2 split of damnation-deed.
I'll see you at mythic, and I'll be on scapeshift.
Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
Congrats on the finish, Kevin! Good Job.
Regarding the new UG legend, unfortunately she does nothing on her own, aside from cantrip. Topdecking a 6 mana coiling oracle isn't ideal.
With other creatures, she's better, but the only other big creatures you have are thragtusk, scavenging ooze, and maybe 1 titan. Most of the time you'll have 1/1's or 2/1's on the field when you cast her.
Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
EpicLevelCommoner
Hmm . . . the loss to MUD supports my Manasinks fuck us up hypothesis to some extent. How exactly I don't know lol.
I have yet to beat MUD. I have only played 2 matches, but neither match was even close. Deed isn't very good against Wurmcoil engine, and even if you slow them down by killing the metalworker / cabal therapy-ing them, eventually they just explode and kill you.
Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
I went 5-2-1 on day one of the grand prix with no byes.
Was playing punishing fire Nic fit.
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Acidic Slime
2 Deathrite Shaman
1 Thragtusk
1 Primeval Titan
1 Broodmate Dragon
2 Eternal Witness
2 Huntmaster of The Fells
1 Scavenging Ooze
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Recurring Nightmare
1 Diabolic Intent
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Punishing Fire
3 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Badlands
2 Bayou
3 Forest
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
2 Mountain
1 Phyrexian Tower
2 Swamp
1 Taiga
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Volrath's Stronghold
SB: 4 Duress
SB: 3 Carpet of Flowers
SB: 3 Extirpate
SB: 1 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 1 Pyroblast
SB: 2 Slaughter Games
SB: 1 Damnation
r1: Chase on Belcher
didn't take notes, lost quickly.
0-1
r2: Billy on High Tide
game one: during his shuffling I saw a lot of islands, so I put him on merfolk to start and kept a reasonable hand. he turn one ponders so now he's on combo. he plays three islands without playing anything and I blind cabal therapy naming high tide and hit two of them out of his hand. at some point i have him down to 1 known card in hand, blue sun's zenith. he rips time spiral of the top with enough mana to cast, thanks to my veteran explorer, and goes off and kills me.
sideboard: -3 Punishing Fire, -3 Pernicious Deed, -3 Veteran Explorer, -2 Abrupt Decay, -1 Maelstrom Pulse, 1 Recurring Nightmare, -1 Diabolic Intent
+3 Carpet of Flowers, +4 Duress, +3 Extirpate, +1RED/Pyroblast +2 Slaughter Games
game two: at some point he tries to go off, whiffs on two mediates giving me two extra turns with liliana and thragtusk in play. i play a huntmaster, swing with thragtusk. next turn he attempts to turnabout my creatures coming in for lethal and it eats a red elemental blast.
during shuffling he offers a tie because there is 45 seconds left on the clock, and we'd be in turns from the start (an advantage to him) i accept the tie rather than play it out.
0-1-1
off start to the day, but i continue playing anyways.
round 3: Allen on RUG delver
game one: lots of grove and punishing fire activations lead to him having no creatures; he concedes that game and we go to game two
i don't really have a lot of sideboarding to do. this is the best matchup.
game two: grindy game. at one point he's up to 30 life due to my only green sources being groves. i did have punishing fires as well. i land a late game thragtusk which puts me to 20 and he drops down to 6 before extending the handshake for more than lethal.
1-1-1
round 4
jason on NicFit bwg
game one: he thoughtseizes me on turn one and i reveal a hand with broodmate dragon and primeval titan in it. and he comments "this is gonna be fun." i assume this is the mirror at this point. never tested the mirror. i get ahead on game one and huntmaster takes me home.
sideboard: never playing the mirror before i sideboard out -3 veteran explorer for +1 Damnation, +2 Slaughter Games (should've probably been extirpate, i'm not sure.)
game two: another long grindy game. at one point he gets rid of my primeval titan, (who grabbed volrath's stronghold+phyrexian tower) and he lands a grave titan. i top deck the singleton damnation when he passes. and pass turn. next turn stronghold primeval, cast. grab 2 duals (i decided to add a singleton kessig wolf run after i ran into this, and also a buddy of mine was playing a singleton. it sound like a good idea) and end up taking game two.
2-1-1
round 5 Jeff on Dredge
game one: keep a hand with deathrite shaman, ooze, gsz, and turn one the DRS. i win game one with all the grave hate.
sideboard: -3 punishing fire
+3 extirpate
game two: at one point i go from 18 to 23, i extirpate the bridges and lay down thragtusk+huntmaster beats for the game.
3-1-1
round 6 Thea on Esperblade
i didn't take a lot of notes on this match, i lost both games. game two she snapcasters a perish that she already cast. that's all I recall.
3-2-1
round 7 Adam on U/G Enchantress
i small talk with adam beforehand and find out he's the owner of a local shop, Dark Matter Games. he informs me that he's legally blind and that's why i'm sitting at table number 12 with my record.
game one: pernicious deed takes the game away, but i learn he's on U/G and not g/w. I've never played against the u/g version and am not sure of it's wincon going into game two.
this match comes down to game three. he locks me out game two with Words of Wind and i scoop so we have enough time for game three.
game three: i'm on the play and i blind cabal therapy an argothian enchantress and ping TWO of them out of his hand. which also revealed 2 lands and 2 Cloud of Faeries I pass, he plays a land and passes, i play veteran explorer, land, flashback cabal therapy and name Cloud. he drew the 3rd one leaving him with just a land in hand and he's never really in game 3.
4-2-1
Round 8 Stefano on what I thought to be Mono-black/the Gate.
went 2-0 against his deck which sported Krovokian Horror
after the tournament i decided to cut the diabolic intent for a kessig wolf run as a better primeval titan target.
Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
Wouldn't have ID'd with High Tide. Slaughter Games and win? You can easily clock him.
Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
RKPW
I went 5-2-1 on day one of the grand prix with no byes.
Good show - sucks you couldn't squeeze out a Day2 with Nic Fit. Seems pretty well positioned overall.
But that said, at least I was able to witness your epic G1 vs. UR Control in the Legacy redux on Sunday!
Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
Hmm, if MUD is that much of a problem, there's always Ancient Grudge to deal with them. This card just 2-for-1 their deck, and it helps against Esperblade as well. I think it should find its way in some sideboards.
Moreover, Shattering Spree should be somewhere in the Wishboard from Scapewish versions.
Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
What, if anything, is a good sideboard card for Scapewish against High Tide and ANT? Those are the combo decks most often played at my LGS.
Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
Slaughter Pact to wish for + 1-2 copies to bring in, in addition to REBs for High Tide and extra discard for ANT. Those matches won't go much above 50/50 even with 5-6 SB slots to it. That's just the nature of the beast.
Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
My latest play testing: Rector Build
I was making a lot of mistakes early on but this is just play testing. Sorry for the mispelling I am tired. I worked 12 hours then played 6 games before I wrote this. I only SB one card every game because i frogot what my SB was supposed to be. 3-3 isn't bad but definately not good enough. I may have to go to the Natural Order SB plan. I need a way around Deathrite Shaman.
Round 1 vs Elves
Game 1: I screwed this up because I forgot to add Starved Rarsulka to my deck so when I green suned for one to get him to kill Rector to get deed he wasnt there so I lost. I did manage to get Moat down turn 3 to hold him off for a while.
Game 2: He comboed off turn 2.
Round 2 vs Miracles
Game 1: I layed a turn 3 deed and let it sit there and managed to get Faith Fetters on moat. Most other spells got countered. I eventually got a Baneslayer down vs his Snapcaster and V. CLique.
Game 2: My turn 1 Cabal Therapy into a turn 2 Veteran Exploer stripping his Swords to Plowshares. I got down a turn 3 Baneslayer and he concedes.
Round 3 vs Junk
Game 1: I made a huge play mistake that I was waiting on. I had and rector out. He had Liliana and Deathrite Shaman. I meant to sac deed to his liliana ability to kill deathrite at the same time but I skipped on accident.
Game 2: I made more play mistakes. I had Faith Fetters on his liliana with Baneslayer in Hand and Deed on board. He had out Batterskull and Knight of the reliquary. I mean to blow deed for 3 but did for 5 because I forgot about the Faith Fetters.
Round 4 vs MUD/Grindstone
Game 1: I go first naming Lodestone taking that. The plays turn 2 Metalwork off a Grim monolith. Then plays a Grindstone. I play my veteran explorer sacing it to take his Steel Hellkite. Next turn he dumps his hand which was just a bunch of mana. I get a turn 3 Diabolic Intenet getting Pulse off another explorer, kill his grind stone. Then my next turn I play eternal witness and pulsing another permanent. After I clear him out I play baneslayer and wipe him out.
Game 2: He plays wasteland, I swamp naming Grim Monolith which hits. But he plays city of traitors mox opal and plays lodestone. I have to play a veteran explorer for a block. Then Starved Rusulka as a blocker until I play Moat which holds him off until he gets Spine of Ish Sah about 4 turns later. But I lay a baneslayer then get a pulse to kill his lodestone. Then again eternal witness pulse to kill his next creature and keep swinging with Baneslayer for the win.
Round 5 vs Mono Black Reanimator
Game 1: He gets a turn 3 Elesh Norn.
Game 2: He gets a turn 1 Iona.
Round 6 vs Affinity:
Game one. He basically lays out his hand but one card and my turn one is just a veteran explorer. He has basics in his deck so him attacks and I pump up which leads me into a turn 2 moat. We play draw go for a few turns until I get a baneslayer. The first one he had an answer but I had both in my starting hand so next turn I played another and he conceded.
Game two he keeps a slower hand but a turn 2 double frogmite and myr enforce. I lay many chump blockers, fierce empath getting sun titan, veteran eplorers and eternal wintess. I do get off deed when he gets me down to 7. I played deed 3 times and he still me down to one until I finally drew my six land which got me a Sun Titan to block his remaining Myr Enforcer getting back deed. I draw a seventh land which was phyrexian tower. Sun Titan attacked getting back fierce empath getting Yosei. Playing Yosei just in case he has a removal spell. Next turn I just recure deed and he concedes.
Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ayotte
What, if anything, is a good sideboard card for Scapewish against High Tide and ANT? Those are the combo decks most often played at my LGS.
3 Slaughter games (leave one in SB) and 3-4 Red blasts helps alot. Also thoughtseizes are good. Those 2 combos are a bit slower. Tide cant win till turn 3 at the very earilest. and ANT it is very rare for a turn 1. So you have a chance to thoughtsieze or slaughter games then often.
Slaughter games hitting timespiral for high tide, and tendrils of agony for ANT (TES is a different story). Against ANT, just REB their cantrips to slow them down.
Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
Got it! There are three types of decks Nic Fit in general just has trouble dealing with.
1. Combo, or rather Fast Combo, like Belcher. Stuff that'll win before we even get a chance to control.
2. Decks that ramp better than we do. MUD can easily get two, three, or even four mana by first turn given the right hand. Turbo Eldrazi is another, what with getting a megafuckton of mana with 12-post.
3. Decks that can use the Veteran Explorer ramp and use it better than we can. This is where Miracles comes in, with Entreat the spell that pushes this matchup towards the 50/50 gray area.
Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TheArchitect
3 Slaughter games (leave one in SB) and 3-4 Red blasts helps alot. Also thoughtseizes are good. Those 2 combos are a bit slower. Tide cant win till turn 3 at the very earilest. and ANT it is very rare for a turn 1. So you have a chance to thoughtsieze or slaughter games then often.
Slaughter games hitting timespiral for high tide, and tendrils of agony for ANT (TES is a different story). Against ANT, just REB their cantrips to slow them down.
I was wondering more in addition to slaughter games and REB, as I already have those. The only good thing to wish for besides that in Arianrhod's list is Thoughtseize. When playing BG or just BGr nic fit, I've always felt a turn too slow against these decks, especially with slaughter games.
