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Hello Guys,
I am deciding between Dredge and ANT for the coming Legacy GP in Lille.
I am wondering if you guys can elaborate a bit on how you feel the matchup is against Miracles and Omnishow?
Furthermore I was wondering if you guys think Dredge is a good choice right now?
Hey buddy, how are you doing?Quote:
Originally Posted by hermans
I think that Dredge is in a pretty high position on Legacy metagame. I mean, Eric Copenhaver just got top4 yesterday at Premier IQ Baltimore, and we have the other dude with that exotic list who got top 5 too. I'm playing the manaless FoW version(Michael Hollywood Keller's one) and im doing fine on the Qualifiers to the brazilian Nacional Legacy, but i'm considering getting back to the LED list(the more aggro one, like Copenhaver's).
So, the matchups: Miracles is most of the times 50/50, but Dredge is slightly favourble. Eric beat two Miracles yesterday, and i guess that means something. Omnishow is pretty much based on who do the combo first.
I would say you to go with Dredge! And not just becouse i'm a Dredge lover(tried other decks like Miracles and Elves, but Dredge is SOOOOOOOO much funnier), but cuz the metagame is good for it too.
Good luck!
So I was wondering how people fight Lands because I haven't won a single match from them in my last 5 tournaments and have only occasionally stolen a game.
Right now I have 3 Leyline of the Voids that I just started running, 1 Ashen Rider, and some artifact hate if they bring in their taxing effects. I've been cutting my Breakthroughs, Darkblast, and LED.
I played against them once last night and while I did have a turn 0 Leyline, it didn't do anything to stop the natural turn 3 Depths-Stage combo they had in their opening hand. I managed to stall a few turns by blocking with my fliers and forcing them to keep Marit Lage back as a blocker but they eventually found Bog and then Tabernacle a few turns later before I could either accumulate enough creatures to attack for lethal or find my Ashen Rider to exile Lage.
Board control based decks are kind of Dredge's natural enemy, stuff like Lands, Enchantress or Parfait require you to be able to Dredge return some kind of answer or combo in order to be able to win later in case you can't win fast enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by gibbousm
Hi guys, after some unsuccessful results with various Delver.decks, I decided to sleeve back Therapies and Ichorids in form of Led Dredge.
That's the list that I tuned with some friends of mine (thanks in particular to Cabal Therapy, a name, a guarantee in term of experience and wisdom):
Creatures (22)
3 Putrid Imp
3 Golgari Thug
4 Narcomoeba
4 Stinkweed Imp
1 Flame-Kin Zealot
3 Ichorid
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
Spells (25)
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
3 Breakthrough
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Careful Study
4 Faithless Looting
4 Bridge from Below
2 Dread Return
Lands (13)
1 City of Brass
4 Cephalid Coliseum
4 Gemstone Mine
4 Mana Confluence
Sideboard (15)
2 City of Brass
1 Pithing Needle
2 Nature's Claim
3 Firestorm
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Wispmare
1 Ingot Chewer
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Ashen Rider
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
Just wanted to know your thoughts about it. Let always live the raw power of Dredge.
So with the rise of Mentor Miracles how have people been adapting because I've been struggling to beat them. Regular Miracles was annoying to play through but if you knew the match up it was about even.
With Mentor they not only have a much faster clock but they can gum up the board so much easier and block much more freely.
This is the list I'm currently running and I'm planning to play the deck in the DC Open next weekend.
Creature (23)
4x Golgari Grave-Troll
3x Golgari Thug
4x Ichorid
1x Iona, Shield of Emeria
4x Narcomoeba
3x Putrid Imp
4x Stinkweed Imp
Instant (1)
1x Darkblast
Sorcery (16)
3x Breakthrough
4x Cabal Therapy
4x Careful Study
1x Dread Return
4x Faithless Looting
Enchantment (4)
4x Bridge from Below
Artifact (4)
4x Lion's Eye Diamond
Land (12)
4x Cephalid Coliseum
4x Gemstone Mine
4x Mana Confluence
Sideboard (15)
1x Ancient Grudge
1x Ashen Rider
1x Dread Return
1x Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
3x Firestorm
2x Ingot Chewer
3x Leyline of the Void
1x Nature's Claim
2x Wispmare
I've been facing a lot of Lands and Mentor Miracles lately and its really annoying.
Any suggestions for next weekend?
I have replaced my 4 LED and 4 Looting with street raith and thougth scour. Just tried it tonigth so far... But the plan is that i now hav 8 card that can interact at instant speed, manabase(coliseum) is better with a blue card.
Once tonigth i played cabal and my op. Played branstom, i thougth scourd the top 2 (rip and cage) but missed the cabal...
I do lose a bit speed but i think that the deck can be a litlle better agains the blue decks. That do you think?
Both LED and Faithless Looting are cards that help you discarding cards that are better in the grave than in your hand. Thought Scour mills you 2 random cards and lets you dredge onde, where with faithless loothing you discard 2 cards of your choise to do their thing in the grave, and also you dredge 2.Quote:
Originally Posted by BJeagle
But I'm not a dredge player, I'm just passing by and leaving some cons of this change of gears.
I've been playing dredge only casually for the last year or so now (I seem to find myself in places that focus either exclusively on standard or modern, there seems to be little love for Legacy), and I've been living in Japan for the last six months now, where the metagame seems to be exclusively blue based. It's been kind of a mixed blessing, because in my experiences so far here, there seems to be little hate for dredge in sideboards, but Show and Telling a Putrid Imp to the opponent's Emrakul is always a pain.
I was wondering if there was anyone on this board that might have some information about competitive MTG here in Japan (that happens to be in English if possible). I've been searching around and scouring the top 8 lists that get posted from GPs and tournaments, but I was wondering if some one could point me in the right direction.
As well, I was wondering what people thought of Malicious Affliction in the SB for the deck from the most recent Commander set. It's double black, which I know isn't always the easiest to manage with the Dredge manabase, but it's pretty easy to get Morbid even before combat, and icing two potential creature threats can sometimes be pretty useful in finishing the game. I may be missing something obvious that makes it unusable, but I thought I'd throw it out there for discussion. I've been reading the board for a while, and it's been a big help in determining the best choices for the deck!
It doesn't look like a great and innovative tool; what for threats are you gonna kill, making value and losing your bridge(s)?Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexorrr
Just secured my byes to Grand Prix Seattle by winning my local GPT.
Same list from my 9th place finish @ SCG Premier IQ LA: http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=16137&iddeck=120494
Round 1: Aggro Loam
G1 He didn't find an Ooze within the 1st few turns. G2 He wasn't running Bojuka Bog and was lite on the GY hate (3 Leyline & ooze, but no way to find it reliably).
1-0
Round 2: Maverick
G1 He couldn't get around my horde of zombies. G2 was Containment Priest turn 2 GG ;_; G3 was Priest turn 2 again, I wait to blow up his board with Firestorm killing 4 of his creatures (Thalia, Priest, & 2 Deathrite Shaman), however, he lays down another Priest and I cry ;___;
1-1
Round 3: Burn
G1 He bricks on burn while were both sitting at 5 life which lets me take the game. G2 was DR into Iona on Red, but he was still having mana flooding issues. D:
2-1
Round 4: BUG or RUG Delver I forgot.
Foggy on the details lol.
3-1
Round 5: Miracles w/ Monastery Monk
G1 He couldn't stop the zombie train; he dropped a Counterbalance without top which didn't help much. G2 he made a shit ton of monks that killed me. G3 I'm able to go off and blow up his hand which revealed a RIP! dodged that bullet.
5-1
Round 6: Merfolk
Heavy Vial draw lets me get there. G2 he has surprise cursecatcher to blow up my bridges. Rolls me with a couple of lords and some other fish. G3 I go off without disruption. He admitted to me after G3 that he was not packing a single piece of GY hate! I felt like I somewhat spiked this tournament as no one was really expecting Dredge to be played. :U
6-1
Round 7: ID Elves
Gentlemen's draw
6-1-1
Top 8:
Quarters: Esper Stoneblade
Semis: Elves
I actually lose G1. I had a hand with Breakthrough and Coliseum but no actual outlet outside of the discard step. I didn't realize how slow my hand actually was against Elves and he quickly dispatches me despite him not having much knowledge about what my deck does or how it works lol. Thats the silver lining I'm looking for. G2 I overwhelm him with zombies and strip his hand away. G3 I had a crazy turn with LED Faithless that allowed me to fetch up 3 Narcomoeba and Dread Return Iona naming Green ending the game.
Finals: 4C Delver
G1 he forgets to flip his delver Turn 2 as were bantering, but the 5 points of missed damage didn't matter this game we determined as I won on the back of zombies early. G2 I was able to teeter on the brink of death by having Flying Narco chump block his Delvers generating me zombies and also allowing me to recur Ichorids to race on damage. At one point I recycled a Narcomoeba by dredging a Golgari Thug back and casting it to sac to Cabal Therpy using his trigger to place a previously dead Narcomoeba on top of my library. This allowed me to dredge into it next turn and chump block again!
I won the byes and an Underground Sea for my troubles. This was a fun tournament overall. Its always great to play at Knightware!
@Alexor. If you want to kill multiple creatures give Firestorm a try. ;D
Congrats! Seems like firestorm is an auto four of. The bbbboooooogey man!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Que
I completely overlooked the bridge trigger that would occur with the malicious affliction. It wouldn't be the worst in some scenarios, but I think you're all right when you say Firestorm is just better. I have three in my SB now, and I'll probably be looking for a 4th.
I'm counting the days until I can get my LEDs. The list I have now without them is pretty ok for my meta, as there is light GY hate, and being able to explode with DR Griselbrand usually finishes the game no problem, but being able to wreck decks turn one with Looting seems pretty awesome. I'm torn between making the deck more combo or more aggressive, and whether I want to rely on DR'ing a target game one, and switching the target post-SB, or focus on going zombie horde game one, and then figuring out how to close game two. Griselbrand and Iona are both so good in so many matchups, however, it's tough to not try and get them out as much as possible. Is there a better strategy for a non-LED version of dredge, or are they both fairly viable no matter the build?
At this point, Omni-Tell at pretty much all Top 8s and winning many champs, I believe we should discuss our strategy against it.
My 2 cents is that the most effective win condition in this matchup is cabal therapy. Should we name directly Show & Tell? Anything further?
Yeah I would almost exclusively name S&T because they wont be able to cast Omniscience otherwise. I don't believe the most current Omni lists are running Dream Halls.Quote:
Originally Posted by indefinite.soul
Alternatively you can try packing another Iona in the sb. If they S&T you can put it into play and cut them off blue, however, this wont work against Emrakul. And while I'm just theorycrafting I'm also trying Surgical to pair with Cabal Therapy. If you snag their S&T I don't think they can actually win at all.
Ashen Rider is also a card, a great tool to do nasty things and a great flashbacked Cabal Therapy target.Quote:
Originally Posted by Que
The thing about using Ashen Rider or Wispmare against Omnishow decks is that they can often dig in response, cast Cunning Wish, get Firemind's Foresight. Foresight for Impulse, BS, Wish. Wish for Trickbind then go off anyways.
They can fail to find the Wish, but with Dig Through Time and the large amount of cantrips they have its unlikely.
Therapy is really good against them as they are a two/three part combo deck. Iona ends them as they have no way to deal with her. The only time Iona won't win the game is if they manage to land Emrakul.
Honestly, Omni I feel is a fairly even match and comes down to who can go off first.
I'm more preoccupied with improving my match up vs Mentor Miracles.
Congrats on the win, Que. I didn't notice the use of Abrupt Decay in your tournament report. Is it a mandatory sideboard card in Dredge nowadays? I tried 2/2 Petals and Decays in the board but I haven't played enough games to test its effectiveness and there aren't as many Legacy tournaments here in the Philippines compared to a few years ago so I'm unsure if buying a couple of foil Abrupt Decays for myself is a good investment for the deck. Thanks!
Hmm It may have not come up this tournament, however, I do believe it is a very strong card. The fact that its uncounterable is the biggest upside. I can't tell you how many times I've turned on my opponent's counterspells by trying to blow up an artifact or enchantment with Nature's Claim. Not to mention that Chalice of the Void can be a card which completely blanks your Claims (I'm assuming they're putting it on 1). The caveat is that you have to run the Lotus Petals alongside them to be able to afford the 2 CMC and the color requirements; the deck is light on lands as it is. That would be my only real gripe against the card, but I've had positive experiences. End step blow up a RIP, a Deathrite Shaman, a Cage, etc.. and blow them out on your turn!Quote:
Originally Posted by SHABOOGS
Also I booked my flight and hotel for Grand Prix Seattle Tacoma. The Boogeyman is coming to Norcal! I want to make Day 2 this time around. Ended up a disappointing 6-3 at GP New Jersey. ;____;
Looks like I need to save money for a couple of foil Lotus Petals and Abrupt Decays then. Best of luck with GP Seattle. Hope you go all the way with Dredge.Quote:
Originally Posted by Que