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Good job on the finish. Is there a reason why you don't run Green Sun's Zenith? That card is just too strong in Zoo, and it gives you outs to combo game 1 with a maindeck Teeg.Quote:
Originally Posted by mhinsz
Teeg stole game 1 from an unsuspecting High Tide player for me at SCG: LA. I managed to get 26th with a 6-2 record with Big Zoo (including a win in a feature match :D). If anyone wants me to post a tourney report I can.
Start with the sideboarding plans for your match ups in LA, or write the report if you wanna up the word count. EIther way I'd be interested
I'd like to see a report, too :) And tell everyone why you didn't play Aggro Loam.
Hahaha, Aggro Loam with Koth is still in the testing phase right now :PQuote:
Originally Posted by RaNDoMxGeSTuReS
I'll keep the tourney report somewhat short since I'll be posting it on my website soon enough (want the more comprehensive one for that :P).
To be honest, I don't remember my sideboard plans exactly, especially pertaining to what I boarded out, so I'll just say what I boarded in. I consider sideboarding and sideboard design my weakest part of my game, and I'm definitely hoping to change that.
Onto the list:
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Qasali Pridemage
3 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Noble Hierarch
3 Grim Lavamancer
1 Mother of Runes
1 Terravore
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Sylvan Library
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
2 Arid Mesa
2 Taiga
2 Plateau
2 Wasteland
1 Savannah
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Mountain/Plains/Forest
Sideboard:
2 Krosan Grip
2 Pyroblast
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Path to Exile
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Null Rod
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Karakas
A little explanation:
The sideboard is kind of a mess, but I wanted to cover at least a little bit of everything. The neat thing about Big Zoo is that combo matchups aren't completely horrid (except for Show and Tell) because of the maindeck Teeg. It is still pretty bad, don't get me wrong, but if the combo deck doesn't have an out to Teeg game 1 by the time I kill them...
Round 1: Adam with High Tide
Game 1: I manage to get a Teeg out which stalls him for a little bit, but he Cunning Wishes for Echoing Truth to combo out.
Sideboard: +2 Ethersworn Canonist, +2 Pyroblast, +2 Tormod's Crypt (might as well lessen the impact of Time Spiral)
I wasn't sure if he was running Candelabras, so I left the Grip out. In retrospect he was playing with sorceries, so that should have been a sign that Candelabras were in.
Game 2: I get Canonist out with Pyroblast backup. That gets there.
Game 3: I mulligan to either 5 or 6, don't remember, but I keep a hand with no hate but with Sylvan Library. Unfortunately that's not enough to get me there :( I finally see Candelabras in this game.
0-1
Round 2: Nathan with High Tide
Once again, another combo deck, not a good way to start the day.
Game 1: Since he is from AZ (same state as me), I know what he is playing since with friendly banter he mentions High Tide. I thought he was running Breakfast since he borrowed cards from me, but I guess he audibled. Anyway I run a Knight out turn 2 due to Noble Hierarch which he Forces, then I Green Sun the next turn. He debates whether or not to counter it, but he lets it through after thinking outloud which cards I could get. Fortunately he forgets about the Teeg, and it gets me there as he shows me a hand with High Tide, Time Spiral, Turnabout.
Sideboard: Same as Round 1, but with Null Rod, since I know he bought Candelabras.
Game 2: Ethersworn Canonist with double Pyroblast backup? Gets me there.
1-1
Round 3: Jeff with Zoo
This is a mirror match...literally. My brother Jeff and I are twins (fraternal but still look quite alike) and we decided to play the same 75. Anyway I hated the fact that we drove all the way to LA just to play against each other -.- I don't feel like writing about this one.
Sideboard: +2 Path to Exile, +2 Umezawa's Jitte
2-1
Round 4: Vidianto Wijaya with Team America
Feature match here: http://blip.tv/file/4954311
Game 1 wasn't seen, but I managed to win off Knight of the Reliquary. It was odd that I saw Terravore all 3 games even though I only have one, though in Game 1 it may have been GSZ'd (I don't remember)
Sideboard: +2 Path to Exile, +2 Umezawa's Jitte, +2 Pyroblast
Round 5: Joseph with Junk
He lands Elspeth almost all three games I think. I win game 1 by bringing him down to Bolt range. Game 2 he wins by Vindicating a land while I was land light. Game 3 he takes off of Elspeth's ultimate followed by another Elspeth. I tested this matchup before and it was pretty positive, though it was with only 1 Elspeth so I didn't see it as often as I did in this match.
Sideboard: +2 Path to Exile, +2 Umezawa's Jitte, +2 Tormod's Crypt
3-2
Round 6: Keith with NO Bant
Game 1 - Turn 3 Progenitus seems pretty good.
Game 2 and 3 I keep him off his dudes with Swords and Bolt. Game 3 he keeps a 1 lander with a Hierarch and I remove the Hierarch...ugly but I'll take it.
Sideboard: +2 Path to Exile, +2 Umezawa's Jitte, +2 Pyroblast
4-2
Round 7: Joseph with Dredge
I saw possibly the worst dredges I've ever seen. I saw no Bridge from Belows either game, and only 1 or 2 Ichorids the whole time. Game 1 I manage to win with Elspeth and Wild Nacatls, and game 2 I had Crypt into turn 2 Teeg all with Bolt for his Imp, Swords for his Tribe...brutal.
Sideboard: +2 Path to Exile, +2 Umezawa's Jitte, +2 Pyroblast, +2 Tormod's Crypt, +1 Karakas
5-2
Round 8: Alexander with Wizards (Decklist here)
Wizards were just outmatched by Zoo creatures. He wasn't able to get his engine online and I was able to remove his guys. Elspeth plus Jitte got me there. Azorious Guildemage was trouble, but I removed the 2 he played.
Sideboard: +2 Path to Exile, +2 Umezawa's Jitte, +2 Pyroblast
6-2
Other than the High Tide matchups, everything felt winnable (The Junk match should have been mine, I misplayed a little bit).
Anyway, sideboard tips would definitely be of help. I usually boarded out my Pridemages (all but 1, as a GSZ) target. Also Bolts got boarded out quite a bit, because they're useless vs Junk, combo, and Team America basically. Unfortunately the only time I saw Mother of Runes was in the Feature Match, and it died :(
Feedback is appreciated :) It was my first big Legacy event, and I'm definitely glad I did well.
I just watched the feature match coverage and during G3 I started raging pretty hard because the guys doing the coverage don't have any clue about what they're talking.
Seriously? RGW deck with KotR, Nacatls, Lavamancers, Goyfs, Bolts and Librarys = New Horizon?
Sweet jesus...
Hahaha yeah I just saw the coverage. I mean I guess they were confused because Terravore was in both games and the traditional cards like Pridemage and Nacatl were hardly seen...Quote:
Originally Posted by Nidd
I feel like Green Sun's Zenith is a silver bullet card. It feels like it just slows down the deck in a format where things happen fast. I don't really like the idea of maindecking Gaddock Teeg with GSZ just for 1-2 Matchups. Plus it is a nombo if you draw the Teeg. I think the best thing it does is get a T1 Dryad Arbor - and that is best suited in a Natural Order deck. I feel like Zoo needs to be fast and efficient, which GSZ hampers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziveeman
If Zoo needed to have silver bullets to beat a larger majority of decks, I could see it's uses, but right now, I feel it is just used to fetch something to beat combo. If you rely on it this way, you are making that option cost 1 more mana/turn. That's not how I want to try to disrupt combo.
There are other good targets like Pridemage - but you said that had limited uses and got boarded out. I could see a case for Loaming Shaman as a target, or something like Xantid Swarm. - but in these cases, isn't Worldly Tutor a better/cheaper option?
idk of you follow any of the SCG opens but to say that teeg is only good vs a couple of matchups is a gross understatement lol have you seen the top sixteen of the last four events? the fields is filled with all sorts of combo decks! a cephalid breakfat deck top fourd for christ sake! combo is zoos worst matchup and personally i want as many silver, gold and platinum bullets as friggim possible.
It is helpfull to know what you are taking out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziveeman
Why are you boarding in Jittes in all these matchups?
vs. Dredge? - You don't usually want to be killing their guys, but instead stopping their combo via graveyard hate.
Team America? - Their guys are all huge
Junk? - again, usually huge guys.
If I play Jitte, I usually only play it vs. Goblins or sometimes Merfolk - and then just to kill theirs.
Bolts aren't really dead cards vs. ANT as getting them on low life before Ad Naseum hits can be key.
As far as sideboarding vs. High Tide - I think you are on the right track with REB, Canonists, Teeg - I would also look at Silence, and Choke.
My debate wasn't really on playing Teeg or not, but whether to play GSZ to find Teeg. My argument was that we shouldQuote:
Originally Posted by warallthetimne
a) play more Teegs - or Teeg effects
b) play Worldly Tutor to play Teeg Faster (on Turn 2) instead of Turn 3 (With Green Sun Zenith)
Gaddock Teeg isn't the best card to battle all "Combo" - there are a variety of combo decks being represented, but I wouldn't say Gaddock Teeg is how you want to go about beating them.
Yes, it is what you want for High Tide, and Tendrils - and if you look at the last 4 SCG Legacy Opens, you'll find those decks appear 6 times out of a possible 64 times. If you throw in other matchups were you definitely want Teeg from the SCG top 16s, we can add 1 Cephalid Breakfast deck, and 1 Charbelcher deck. - which gets us to 8 out of 64.
If we add in all the Dredge and Natural Order variant from the last 4 tournaments we get +6 Dredge and +6 Natural Order. Add that to the 8 from before and the result is 20/64 decks.
I would argue that Gaddock Teeg isn't how you want to matchup vs. ANT, Dredge, Breakfast, Natural Order, or even Charbelcher. He certainly helps the cause, but I tend to bring him in with other forms of hate (Mindbreak Trap, Pyroblast, Graveyard Hate) from the sideboard.
Teeg is actually exactly you want against both AnT and Natural order. Teeg stops Ad Nauseam, Tendrils of Agony, and Ill Gotten Gains from AnT and Natural Order from Natural Order decks. He also stops Charbelcher and Empty the Warrens! Teeg isn't the answer for all combo but he makes most combo matches better for us. And the fact that he is tutorable makes him that much better. My main currently has 1 Teeg, and my sideboard has 1 Teeg, 1 Cannonist, 2 Mindbreak Trap. I don't consider Dredge traditional combo so it must have it's own slot which I have 2 Ravenous Trap and 1 Bojuka Bog.Quote:
Originally Posted by mhinsz
I almost play the same deck as you, look previous page what I posted.
Mother I didn't think off but I think it's also not that good and I want something else.
any comments on my deck would be great.
I think null rod ain't bad against combo decks either and affinity now to, so I think I'll add that one also :)
And I think the same with GSZ, but I have the lukc I almost always have it in my opening hand and than it's a bom^^
But idd it makes the deck slower if you don't have noble turn one or GSZ, but it aihn't bad later game because you can fetch so many things in your deck.
It's also good to get a goyf or something you know...
EDIT: teeg ain't bad mainboard, it's also good vs anything else (bant,everything what's combo and plays bigger things...)
It's better to stall it a littlebit and have a chance than they go off and kill you.
Second game you can bring in other hate with it so really not bad^^
To be honest I haven't tested vs Team America all that much (though I managed to beat it in the Legacy challenge as well), but for the other matchups:Quote:
Originally Posted by mhinsz
Dredge: I was looking for ways to remove Bridges and perhaps Bolt/Lavamancer is enough, but I took out Elspeth for Jittes - same curve, but Jitte kills my own guys if I ever need to.
Vs Junk I boarded it in because it makes sure my Knights and Goyfs are bigger than theirs.
I used to run an Enlightened Tutor package like Kemper Pogue's, but I decided against it at the last minute. Sometimes waiting a whole turn and/or missing a draw step is huge. I would suspect the same with a Worldly Tutor package. Maybe adding more Horizon Canopy so you can draw it the same turn? Seems like a lot of mana though.
As for boarding out, the main cards I boarded out were
Qasali Pridemage
Gaddock Teeg (for non-combo matchups)
Lightning Bolt (not all though, usually replaced by Path to Exile for bigger creatures)
Elspeth
Sylvan Library was the MVP all day. I would like to fit a 3rd one in but I don't know what I should take out.
I definitely see where you're coming from mhinsz regarding Teeg. I think he can be mainly game 1 material, as a means to at least interact with your opponent game 1 where there is usually none. Obviously if your only hate both in maindeck and in sideboard is Teeg you'll lose to combo - when your opponent starts bringing in hate in game 2, your Teeg won't survive.
team america has a tough time vs aggro unless they main mass removal. teeg is a bomb vs combo game one but i never said he should be ur only answer. i love the singleton teeg with green sun main with extra teeg, layline of sanctity and magus od the moon in the side. teeg is great vs high tide and tendrils. post board with teeg amd layline ur nigh unbeatable by combo, with magus coming in against ad neuseum combo and all their fetches and duals
for me you dont need to play leonin arbiter if you have an awful board position.. try to examine first or think twice if leonin arbiter would be a big mess to him.. it's not intended to slow you down it's intention is to slower your opponent. :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by BantFTW
I've been wondering this lately, but does anyone know why Alix Hatfield ran 4 Horizon Canopy in his list from Grand Prix Columbus?
The only things I can assume is to get better draws off Sylvan Library, which he ran as 3-of or have more lands to go turn 1 Steppe Lynx into turn 2 fetch.
Piloted Zenith Zoo today, going 4-2.
Won against 2 TES, UB Faeries and Canadian Thresh. Lost against Team America and Dredge.
Maybe I'm going to write some kind of report, have to see what I can remember...
Hey guys, I have a question. I've been playing Big Zoo for a little while now. I've been seeing a lot of people recently playing less burn than normal. I currently have 12 removal spells/burn (4 bolt, 4 PtE, 2 helix, 2 chain lightning). Is there a reason people have been playing only Lightning Bolt and StP/PtE?
Also I noticed that I rarely ever wanted to board in Jitte. I felt that I wanted to board it in against aggro for the most part, but I have so much aggro hate in the form of removal, lavamancers and bigger creatures and there's very few cards I can take out to fit in Jitte.
I'm currently running 2 Lavamancers over 2 Jittes in the sideboard with 2 Lavamancers main. Does anyone else feel this way or am I just crazy?
I can post my list if that helps at all.
I also played in a GPT today and got killed by NO Bant. Does anyone have any ideas on how to beat Progenitus or Natural Order?
I'd say more Reach (Burn) to finish em off quicker.. but not an expert here. Also, kill Hierarchs but dont use Path to Exile, board it out.. maybe for Price of Progress?! Or red Blasts
Tariff or Gaddock TeegQuote:
Originally Posted by zmattk