[DTB] Vial Goblins

my mb

// Lands
6 [BD] Mountain (2)
2 [ON] Wooded Foothills
1 [6E] Swamp (3)
3 [MM] Rishadan Port
4 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
4 [REW] Wasteland
3 [B] Badlands

// Creatures
1 [MOR] Lightning Crafter
4 [EVG] Goblin Warchief
2 [10E] Siege-Gang Commander
4 [US] Goblin Lackey
2 [M10] Goblin Chieftain
2 [ZEN] Warren Instigator
4 [EVG] Goblin Matron
3 [ON] Goblin Piledriver
1 [CHK] Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
2 [PLC] Stingscourger
4 [AP] Goblin Ringleader
1 [R] Goblin King


// Spells
3 [MOR] Warren Weirding
4 [DS] AEther Vial

More support for Instigator here:

Ridiculous with Goblin Matron (yes, you can search after the first hit and drop whatever you want)

Ridiculous with Goblin Ringleader [edited] (yes, you can draw your four cards and drop what you want)

Ridiculous with Stingscourger (especially with a Matron or Recruiter or Seige-Commander on board already)

Ridiculous with Chieftain (yes, his second hit will be for 2, making it three damage total with no additional buffs)


I don't see what the debate is (if there is one) if you're running mono-Red/Vial. He's incredible.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Professor

More support for Instigator here:

Ridiculous with Goblin Recruiter (yes, you can draw your four cards and drop what you want)
.

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I think you mean Ringleader

Yessir I do (taking a break from paper-grading. Forgive me, as my mind is mush).

Question: Can you activate Kiki-Jiki between the First Strike dmg and the final hit?

Scenario:

Swing, hit via first strike:

Drop Kiki-Jiki, activate Kiki-Jiki to mirror a Goblin Chieftain

Next and final hit is amped?


Does that scenario work?



Also, I forgot to mention that Instigator is ridiculous with Goblin Pyromancer, especially with the "damage on the stack" thing gone. If Instigator lands, Pyromancer IS going to drop, boosting your Gobs before a response is available and the non-first strike damage (now amped with Pyromancer) is done. Hot.

I like instigators, but i want something other to cheat in besides lackeys and instigators...

yes u can use effects between fs and normal dmg
i often went fs: drop kiki copy matron dmg: siegegang or chieftain

Using the Instigator to first strike in a pyromancer was something i was messing around with for a while. the only problem i found is that youll only want one in a deck and so if you matron for it or get it off of a ringleader your opponent knows what might be coming. While running the pyromancer i did find that dropping a MWM or two the same turn as the pyromancer would leave you a couple blockers which is nice if they manage to live through that turn.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Professor

More support for Instigator here:

Ridiculous with Stingscourger (especially with a Matron or Recruiter or Seige-Commander on board already)

.

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why would dropping a Stingscourger benefit you? you cant bounce your own goblins

Quote:

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Originally Posted by alfthefurryalien

why would dropping a Stingscourger benefit you? you cant bounce your own goblins

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To remove a blocker for your warren instigator.

you cant drop him in with instigator if you need him to remove a blocker. yes he is good at removing blockers but idk if thats what Professor was saying

I've tested 2-4 Instigators and found that I liked 3 Instigators. 4 was way too much drawing into just lackeys/instigators and no matron/ringleaders. Instigators is great but not when your hand has only lackeys and incinerators.

I'm going down to 2 in the Rb build and having 6 Lackeys, 4 Vials seem strong. In my opinion, Chieftain is the real deal. He pushes extra 3-4 damage everyturn and makes your creatures survive Dark Confidant, Mongeese blocks. I'm testing 2 Instigators 3 Chieftains in my build, but I may up the Chieftains to 4 instead. RR is a big problem for BR builds but the Mad Auntie isn't as crazy as Chieftain, so I need to see how I can work the right numbers out.

After testing monored goblins, I realized that the deck is by far the most consistent fastest deck, but it utterly loses to combo even with its speed. I'm a fan of Rb since Squad plays a huge role, not just against combo, but against Landstill and Goyfs, where you can remove their wraths and other 3 Goyfs. Squad beats Goyf's ass all day as well.

While I also like Chieftain, why exactly is your opponent blocking and trading a Dark Confidant for a Goblin ever a thing you would want to fix?

@FoulQ: What about replacing 2 Ports with 2 Mutavaults? They are also useful in the lategame if you have a chieftain or a pile in play (now that you run 2 chieftains).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sligh16

@FoulQ: What about replacing 2 Ports with 2 Mutavaults? They are also useful in the lategame if you have a chieftain or a pile in play (now that you run 2 chieftains).

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I cant answer specifically for FOULQ but ports are REALLY still good. There are matchups where the mana denial will just win you the game. Here is my current list:

4 Wasteland
3 Rishadan Port
16 Mountain

4 Goblin Lackey
3 Warren Instigator
3 Goblin Chieftain
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Ringleader
3 Stingscourger
3 Gemplam Incinerator
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
2 Siege Gang Commander
4 Aether Vial
2 Goblin Piler driver

SB:
4 Lighting Bolt
4 Relic Of Progenitus
4 Pyrokinesis
2 Shattering Spree
1 Goblin Sharpshooter

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sligh16

@FoulQ: What about replacing 2 Ports with 2 Mutavaults? They are also useful in the lategame if you have a chieftain or a pile in play (now that you run 2 chieftains).

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I honestly haven't tested them in my new build with instigator and chieftain. I think you have a good idea, perhaps. I do very much like the way port can up our percentages against control decks as only a land card and not a goblin taking up valuable deck space, so my initial feelings are not likely. I also like the idea of wasteland 5-6, because if we can draw 2-3 of our 5-6 "wastelands" then we can really get another dimension to our attack plan for that game. Mutavault serves an entirely different role, so I'm not so sure. The matchups I primarily care about our merfolk, zoo, counterbalance, and loam...I really get worried of him dying against zoo which could screw up our mana, against merfolk he seems meh against their bigger mutavaults and faster clock, and against counterbalance and loam... I think rishadan port is a more effective way to hurt them. Mutavault provides speed, but goblins doesn't need speed against merfolk/zoo and my personal playstyle doesn't really match the speed approach against a lot of control decks (for example, racing devastating dreams vs. loam), because I feel those decks are made to properly stop aggro rushes but aren't as prepared to handle a consistent stream of guys that only a goblin deck can produce. But enough talking, more testing.

Hello, just a quick question about mana bases in the splash versions......

Most look something like this:


// Lands
6 [BD] Mountain (2)
2 [ON] Wooded Foothills
1 [6E] Swamp (3)
3 [MM] Rishadan Port
4 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
4 [REW] Wasteland
3 [b] Badlands


Are fetches less vulnerable than Non-Basics?
I undertand that a Wasteland lock can really hurt you if you are unable to look for basics, and staring down an active Wasteland isn't fun as you put your non-basic land on the table, but I would have thought hate for fetches was more prevalent than that which primarily targets non-basic lands.

Non-basic hate hurts, but alot of the specific hurt isn't played by many decks or hurts fetches to some degree too. Off the top of my head:
Moon effects
Back to basics
Price of Progress
Are the most popular, and none of those are played in the most popular decks (eshewing D. Stompy and Burn).

Wouldn't running 4 Duels and 4 of the 'crap' Lorwyn duels, with perhaps 1-2 fetches be a possibility?
Or am I overlooking something?

Im testing the following atm:

4#Goblin Ringleader
2#Siege-Gang Commander
3#Stingscourger
4#Goblin Chieftain
3#Warren Instigator
4#Æther Vial
18#Mountain
4#Wasteland
3#Goblin Piledriver
4#Goblin Lackey
4#Goblin Warchief
4#Goblin Matron
3#Gempalm Incinerator
// sideboard
1#Goblin Sharpshooter
4#Pyrokinesis
4#Relic of Progenitus
3#Anarchy
1#Goblin Tinkerer
2#Boartusk Liege

I tried 4 WI's for a while, but i just wanted 1 extra piledriver. Also: I have a question: 22 Land... isnt it too much? I havent too much problems with it, but with addition of WI, you dont want to get too much lands drawn. Some of my friend told me to go play 4 lightning bolts, opions on this?? I might test the following: -3 mountains, -1 ringleader(not sure bout this 1) , + 4 lightning bolt. Or would i be more likely to not play instigators, and play lightning bolts and keep the manabuilt like this?

~Maarten

I would never go below 22 land. I actually bumped my count back up to 23. Since the deck doesnt have any draw source outside of cycling a gempalm (which I have dont just to draw a card before when Im hunting for a land or something), you need to make your first 3 land drops for sure. Also, our best goblins cost 3-5 mana. So you need to get there quick if you arent able to vial/instigator/lackey them into play. I wouldnt drop the 4th ringleader, they got increasingly better with instigator, as well did matron. I have settled with piledriver as a 2 of. Sure he is good, but he needs 2 other goblins in play to be a real beast and he is the best when he is hasted.

I'm playing at a tournament this Sunday. I expect a lot of:

Merfolk(Jitte), Zoo(Jitte), Eva-green (Plague&Jitte), Thresh(Firespout) and some combo decks. There will also be a small amount of random decks like Elf and Burn/Sligh.

Would the following sideboard be a good choice?

4 x Relic of Progenitus
4 x Challice of the Void
2 x Pyrokenesis
2 x Boartusk Liege
2 x Umezawa's Jitte
1 x Goblin Tinkerer

Id maybe replace pyrokinesis with perish if u run a black splash

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Avatara

I'm playing at a tournament this Sunday. I expect a lot of:

Merfolk(Jitte), Zoo(Jitte), Eva-green (Plague&Jitte), Thresh(Firespout) and some combo decks. There will also be a small amount of random decks like Elf and Burn/Sligh.

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Sounds like a decent meta to audible to doomsday combo with 6+ chant/silence main.

Jitte won't help much against many of those MUs aside from possibly killing other jittes. I would add additional stingscourgers and incinerators (if you're not maxed out) to augment pyrokenesis in dealing with little guys early game should you fear jitte. Mogg war marshal can get you into the late game against thresh and zoo, he may be worth including over 'gators as so mnay of those decks run an abundance of 1 and 2 drops and/or removal to keep gator from connecting. I'd only run chalice if you think there will be a lot of burn or slow in addition to ANT/Doomsday combo, as even with 4 chalices games 2 and 3, goblins still has an unfavorable MU vs combo, I usually go with the 'glass cannon' strategdy, as even 8 SB slots wot give you a good MUso I just pack that with cards to help my other MUs, and hope that the thresh and merfolk decks will beat the combo decks out of the top8, where i will then thoughoughly bash said blue aggro-control decks.