Double red is the issue and it doesn't deal with TNN or mother of runes decks. I'm 100% for deluge.Quote:
Originally Posted by monaco.errante
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Double red is the issue and it doesn't deal with TNN or mother of runes decks. I'm 100% for deluge.Quote:
Originally Posted by monaco.errante
Has anyone tested Collective Brutality? Seems like it would be decent since pitching a land to trigger escalate is not a problem with the high land count and Life from the Loam.
What to cut from the SB for one more STP???
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Containment Priest
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Swords to Plowshares
3 Leyline of the Void
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Thoughtseize
2 Toxic Deluge
Quote:
Originally Posted by nditiz1
Here's my board. It looks to me like you have too many cc3 to me so probably cut a deluge.
Sideboard
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Choke
3 Leyline of the Void
1 Golgari Charm
2 Swords to Plowshares
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Arlinn Kord
1 Garruk Relentless
2 Thoughtseize
1 Toxic Deluge
Thanks NEELEY - also check your PM's
Quote:
Originally Posted by NEELEY
I prefer to cut arlinn kord. Sometimes, we much need deluge. such as face elves or DNT.
Wouldn't a third swords be better if you wanted to cut the walker? Helps interact better and more efficiently when you need to be quicker.Quote:
Originally Posted by grim confident
After playing with this deck for the past few weeks, I have learned I am lacking in certain areas, but I'm sure that can be overcome with more experience.
1. Fetching wrong lands screwed me and when to zenith for the arbor.
2. Forgetting to draw after Bob...
3. Knowing what hand to mulligan (aggressively mulliganing seems to be key)
4. I play way to damn safe.
I'm always afraid of eating a counterspell. Should I just play it and hope? I've heard of baiting a counterspell, but I don't even know where to begin to evaluate what cards to use as bait.
Overall it's a great deck that's a lot of fun and interactive.
Initial game sequencing definitely takes time to get ahold of. Sequencing generally comes down to which threat you want to actually stick in that matchup. Sticking a Bob against Miracles is definitely preferred, but he is 100% Kill On Sight. In the opening turns I'll throw out a Goyf before I throw out Bob to clear out a Swords. On the other hand, cards like Chalice just end the game on the spot, so I sometimes slam them Turn 1 to see if they have an answer or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Digitend89
It also depends on the rest of your hand and how well you can follow up. If you definitely want to slam Bob + Chalice, you can wait and play Goyf turn 2 (Swords), turn 3 to play Liliana (Force), and then hope to land Chalice then Bob. Essentially, you run them out of answers to get the final card to stick. These Rock decks generally want to just run the opponent out of answers and stick a hard threat.
Overall, boils down to what card you want to actually stick and how game ending it can be. I'm not sure if throwing everything you can before Chalice is better than just slamming it ASAP.
It significantly matters whether you're pre or post board (i.e. whether your opponent knows what you're on) and whether you're on the play or draw, as well. You need to get really good at determining what your opponent is on based on their first few plays. Say you're on the draw, and your opponent plays Fetch -> Island -> Ponder. Do you play a T1 Bob or T1 Chalice?
- If they're on Delver, they may let a Bob resolve because they can Bolt it. And they have both Force and Daze to counter your Chalice. You can play Bob first, and if they don't have or draw into removal, they'll have to waste a counter on Bob, which gives you an opening for Chalice.
- If they're on Miracles, they may let Bob resolve because they can Swords it. But they only have Force to counter a Chalice with. You may want to play a Chalice first, as it's more likely to stick now than after a Counterbalance is in play, and it shuts off their Swords so they have to waste a Terminus on Bob.
- If they're on Storm, they probably don't have removal or counters for either spell pre-board, but they might just combo you off T2. Slam that Chalice and cross your fingers.
When I'm on the play, I almost always yolo and go for the T1 Chalice. Worst case scenario, they 2-for-1 themselves by Forcing it before they've even played a land.
Chalices I almost always YOLO if they are good, because it is such a small cost for ending the game on the spot. Waiting 1 more turn might allow the opponent to deploy enough 1drops that Chalice might be less than game-ending. Obviously if the opponent showed you an Ancient Tomb, Plains, Veteran Explorer or the like you know chalice is much worse and it might not be worth playing at all.
Then you have to look at the texture of your hand. How many counterspells can you beat? How much "time" is your opponent giving you? Some hands are 2 lands and nothing but threats.. so you just run face first into every daze because otherwise you will die with a hand full of 2drops. Sometimes you have 1 Knight and removal, so you are gonna wait to play a 4/4+ knight on turn 4 or w.e. So if your hand is something like cycle, waste, 2 fetch, pfire, decay, chalice, then you gotta realize that chalice is your payoff spell, and it can be worth playing it around daze if that comes up.
I tend to like making my opponent "have it" as you generally are punished less if you fail (getting an important spell countered is less bad than giving Delver a bunch of extra turns), and going longer without making any proactive plays gives the opponent the potential to outdraw you.
Thanks for the tips everyone! Unfortunately for me I can't play in person anymore as the only local LGS that hosted legacy weeklies just closed down out of the blue.
Online just isn't the same :frown:
It took myself about six months to pick up all the needed pieces to build Aggro Loam. About a month ago, I finished the deck, constructed it, and have loved it ever since. My LGS does two FNM events every week with a weekly Standard and alternating Modern/Legacy for the other. The last two Legacy FNM, played the deck and went undefeated both times. Needless to say... I love the deck and I am extremely happy with the power level and plays it is able to make.
That being said, I am going to be trying to go to SCG Indy this coming weekend on the Sunday portion to enter the Legacy Classic event, wanting to pilot Aggro Loam there. I have a stocked list including the side. I'll post the sideboard below, figure I won't need to post the main 60 as it's just a cookie cutter of what's what right now.
My biggest issue, which just comes with time of running the deck, is the siding options. Could anyone give me a few tips or guides on siding things in and out for certain matches? I have a general idea of things to bring in a good amount of the time, but feel that my siding options could be a bit stronger.
Here's the 15 for the SB currently:
3 Swords to Plowshares
3 Leyline of the Void
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Thoughtseize
1 Golgari Charm
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Arlinn Kord
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Toxic Deluge
Any help that could be given, I would appreciate it. Legacy is a vast format with dozens, into hundreds of decks, that are able to do well on any given weekend. I am not looking for a guide to every single deck out there, but if I could get some guidance from more veteran Aggro Loam players in what they usually take In/Out in certain matches, I would greatly appreciate it!
Thank you!
JemberaMakoa,Quote:
Originally Posted by JemberaMakoa
I would go here to see Niklas Kronberger's recommendations. It's not quite the same SB, but close enough to give you an idea about what you want to be doing post-board. I prefer the Leyline package you run.
Hi, new to site. But have been playing the deck for a couple of months. I was wondering how great is our matchups vs other BGx decks like nic fit and maverick. Been losing all my games against those and would like advice on how to play against them if possible.
I've recently played a bunch against maverick. That matchup has been quite positive. Pfire is bad for them, you can force through Marit Lage, and Toxic Deluge ends the game.
Decks like Nic Fit that try to go over you are harder. Your best tools out of the board are STP, Deluge, and Planeswalkers. Despite all that I'd probably want to be the beatdown here. We can't outgrind a deck full of non-decayable non-pfireable threats, so ending the game quickly with Knight/Lage is the best course of action.
Here is what I think of various BGx Matchups with my list:
Maverick: Very positive 70+%
Jund: We win if knight sticks. 60-70%
BUG Delver: The closest matchup of the delvers with drs,decay, and a higher curve 60%
Shardless: Keeping them off of Visions tilts the matchup in our favor 40-60% (have not tested recently was closer to 40)
BUG Stuff: Their biggest advantage is I don't know wtf they are doing. Any number of cards can be lurking in here 40-50%
Nic Fit: Probably want to avoid. 30-40%
I'm not playing lili in my deck so all of these non-delver matchups should be better for you than they are for me.
A lot of the times improving your win rate against a matchup is a matter of sitting down with a playtesting partner and approaching the matchup from every angle you can think of. Loam is capable of playing just about any spot on the metagame clock reasonably well, and a matchup that you can't beat as a midrange deck you might beat as a combo deck.
I'm currently using Keating's most recent list but how would I sideboard for those matchups? I tried boarding out chalice a couple times since it doesn't stop the majority of their threats however it also does stop them from using their STP's, surgicals and 1cmc discards.
In a lot of these matchups, if you don't have access to Stage-Depths you are forced into a midrange fight. Sometimes you can win it without much trouble (maverick, often jund) but other times (nic fit) you really don't want that to be your only option. I'd strongly recommend playing Stage-Depths in the deck.
If you are using this list then you are missing out on STP as one of out better tech cards.
I'd board like this against a generic GBx deck. There should not be anything surpising here.
Tho do note that the decks we are talking about are quite different and should be treated as such.
-4 Chalice (Abrupt Decay decks with 12 or less 1drops make chalice@1 pretty had)
-1 Mox Diamond (If the game goes long we don't want to be drawing moxen. If we can afford to slow down we want to cut 1-2)
+2 Thoughtseize (We need to increase T1 plays especially if we are cutting Chalice and Moxen)
+1 Maelstrom Pulse (We are going to be facing non-Decayable creatures)
+1 Toxic Deluge (This card is amazing at cleaning up board states)
+1 Garruk Relentless (whatever you have in this slot tends to be quite good at midranging)
I'd look to play 3 STP as that card fixes a lot of holes in our gameplan, as well as a second Deluge as the card instantly stabilizes you from behind in any creature matchup.
Against Nic Fit, I think you would want to have the Chalices. As a former player, the deck is a complete piece of shit if it can't fire off Explorers. They can GSZ them out of course, but that slows them down a bit. For a sac outlet, they'll need to throw Therapies into your chalice for no gain. That leaves them to ramp up with Sakura Tribe Elders, Wood Elves and the like.
I'd also want Swords in to remove Explorers that they may abandon on the field.
I'd even recommend bringing in Leylines, Explorer won't trigger if it is exiled. Overall, an Explorer trigger isn't great news since it lets Deeds come down much faster in order to wipe the board.
I'm speaking from limited experience, to take my with the appropriate amount of skepticism/etc.
Chalice is good at stopping you from losing cards to Therapy, and it strands explorers in your opponent's hand. Unfortunately, EOT Decay on Chalice and then a T3 Therapy + Veteran play means that Chalice was a poor use of a card and 2 mana. Playing chalice comes with a cost, and if you are unable to permanently remove (or significantly delay) more than one of your opponents spells, then I think it is not worth playing. (The same play can happen a turn layer with Deed, and 4 mana + zenith is similar as well)
Chalice is best on Turn 1, especially against cards like Aether Vial and Veteran Explorer. Reducing Moxen and trying to play a midrange game go against the T1 Chalice plan, as does bringing in 1drops from the sideboard.
If you are bringing in Leylines and keeping in all of your chalices you are basically treating Nic Fit like a combo deck. You don't think that turning off Veteran + Therapy flashback matters on turn 4, do you? Cuz the game will likely go long, so you will be seeing some of those useless 4drops. I feel like either way this strategy loses to their land-heavy draws.
Part of the problem is Nic Fit has like a 12 card core and some of these choices may be good or bad depending on what else is there. If the opponent has 4 DRS, 4 top, ad 4 Thoughtseize then keeping Chalice is correct. If the opponent is playing Gitrog, Meren, Finks, Redcap and Reveillark then its probably worth it to side in Leyline.
I don't think there is a time when deed is not live against us. On turn 3 deed can take out chalice and the mox used to cast it for x=0. Beyond that it also starts taking out our creatures.