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I'd pack a pair of Shattering Spree, altough I haven't played them since the printing of Cavern of Souls. Still thinking you should have enough mana so destroy Jitte and Batterscull. You can even cast 2 copies and dodge counterspell, since each copy has to be countered seperately.Quote:
Originally Posted by namrufmot
@Humphrey: I always want to be open to new ideas so I would like to hear more about this. It seems like you are the only one really sold to blue splash. So the idea is basically to splash blue for about 4 counterspells in the SB. What problem do they solve? mono red lists would probably run chalice of the void in place of those counterspells, it seems like they compete for the same spot, but are counterspells just better or what?Quote:
Originally Posted by Humphrey
Another thing that I don t understand is: doesn t thoughtseize do more than spell pierce? why choosing U splash over B splash?
Would you side in spell pierce against non combo? did they help in your experience to counter equipments? But again, wouldn t discard just be better?
@all: has anyone tried Zo-Zu the Punisher? I can see it in the SB above but it looks a bit odd to me. What is he there for? Against Knight of the reliquary decks?
I tried Discard against Reanimator and Sneakshow and it didnt help at all, since they hide it with Brainstorm or find another buisness spell.
Counter their buisness or delay it, gives you the crucial 1 or 2 turns to race them. Also its often pretty unexpected.
Against combo i board 4/5 counter.
Envelop and Pierce are also strong against UW Miracles, so I board all of them in, too.
Against other decks, I usually board 2 Pierce against stuff like Humilty, Plague or removal.
Its pretty nice to bring Lackey with Caverns and counter the STP or counter the force on Vial.
Counter are much more versatile than discard, since it hits the keyspells, not the random stuff they keep on hand.
About Zo-Zu, I have no idea why it is there. Probably against lands? Or maybe he just wanted to test it. I think there are better sb options. Hes nice against fetches, though.
Somebody plays Krosan Grip and Chalice of Void or something and in my opinion does Spell Pierce the same thing like both cards.
It is "combohate" and a solution for Humility, Moat and maybe Timely Reinforcement.
I choose Envelop instead of 4th Spell Pierce cause it counters most same things. Ponder, Show&Tell, Exhume, Reanimate, Timely Reinforcement and it counters easier miracled Terminus and Entreat the Angels (When you opponent know you blue splash, he plays around Spell Pierce if he can.)
It doesn't counter hatespells like Moat, Humility or Sneak Attack. But my metachoice was more Miracle than Sneak Attack -> more miracled Terminus/Entreat as Sneak Attack.
1 Zo-Zu was against Christian Donner cause he was playing AggroLoam and wouldn't borrow me the 2. Envelop:)
welcome tobi, hope you continue to share your thoughts :)
Hi Tobi (rabrab),
so we'd like to hear some explainations of your choices. The main question was:
"What makes the blue splash better than any other red choices?"
For example you played cards like Spell Pierce and Envelop like you said against Reanimator, UW, Sneak and other Show and Tell decks. Ok...why not playing cards like Stingscourger, Vortex etc which would let you be more safe against Stifle/Wasteland.
We all know, you did well at GP, but after that, would you still play R/u?
My question would rather be whether a blue splash is still any good if people expect it. If they see a Volcanic game 1, they might be prepared for counters post-board games. Especially since we have access to Stinger why would you prefer Gildet Drake?
The easiest answer for Spell Pierce vs other options: flexibility.
We've more SB options for everything when we're using flexible cards.
Chalice -> storm
Discard -> storm + sneak/show
Krosan Grip or something -> hatepermanents
REB/Pyroblast -> only blue cards
Stingscourger is great vs Reanimator but not good enough vs sneakshow. These are the 2 MU for Stingscourger.
Sulfur Vortex is a great card but i don't like it unless in Burndecks and these are only vs controldecks.
Spell Pierce uses the cards to board in vs control and combo.
At GP i played Gilded Drake because I thought many people would play Reanimator and the Drake is the best options for this.
Vial 2 -> steel Griselbrand, Iona, SPhinx of Steel Winds and Elesh Norn.
Don't forget your Cavern of Souls with naming Drake to cast a uncounterbale hate for him. They're statregy is reanimate or show/tell a great creature and Gildet Drake would awesome vs both.
Vs Sneak Attack is Gildet Drake useless but still boarding in vs turn 2 show/tell -> Emrakul/Griselbrand.
=> Gildet Drake is in a "heavy" Reanimatormeta.
Wastelands: 1 Volcanic Island doesn't worst and try to keep Volcanic in your Libary until you need it.
Sometimes when I had a Volcanic on board my opponents know my Spell Pierces and plays around. I didn't have one but i get a mindgaming "timewalk". It's great vs Miracle when they're wouldn't cast their Moat/Humility on turn 4. Same things like vs Combo when they're thinking about Spell Pierce and waiting for 1-2 turns.
Finally I would still playing Ru Goblins.
Edit: When anyone interesting in GP and MKM results.
GP Ghent
Grinder 3:
Round 1 Goblins 2-0
Round 2 Maverick 2-0
Round 3 Miracle 2-0
Round 4 BUG Dreadnought 2-0
Round 5 Miracle he had 3 byes and concedes but i think i would still won this.
GP Day1
3 Byes
Round 4 4c Control 2-1
Round 5 Stoneblade 2-0
Round 6 Maverick
Round 7 RUG 2-1
Round 8 SneakShow 1-2
Round 9 Miracle 1-1-1
7-1-1
Day2
Round 10 Maverick 2-0
Round 11 Elfball 2-1
Round 12 Miracle 0-2
Round 13 RUG Cascade 2-0
Round 14 Maverick 1-2
Round 15 Miracle 2-0
Round 16 RUG 2-1
12-3-1
MKM
Round 1 Burn 1-2
Round 2 Doomsday 2-0
Round 3 Maverick 2-1
Round 4 Merfolk
Round 5 Miracle 2-0
Round 6 Goblins 2-0
5-1
Top8
Quarter NicFit 2-0
Semi Miracle 2-0
Final Miracle 2-0
=> I'm still thinking that Goblins are a great mteachoice at the moment.
Congratulations on the good showings, rabrab! Your decklist from Ghent looked super solid and your sideboard seemed pretty rad. I actually feel kinda dumb looking at your list because it's just so obvious. No tricks in the maindeck, just 34 Goblins with the Krenko-supporting Sharpshooter/Prospector package. You kept it simple and got the results. I dig it.
I've yet to play against a Miracle deck. Would you mind elaborating on how you sideboarded and played those rounds?
Thanks much! And again, Congrats!
@Rebrab:
With that list, how do you side against Canadian?
Thanks:)
I playstyle vs Miracle was keeping 3-5 dmg like 2 goblins on board and play around Terminus and try to play tempo and don't keep your Gempalm and Stingscourger on your hand.
Your opening hand should have 2-3 lands + Vial or Cavern of souls (with Cavern are these 3-4 lands). These 8 cards are the keys with Goblin Matron and Ringleader.
My boardingplan was:
3 Spell Pierce
1 Envelop
1 Zo Zu (He's a goblin who deals 4 dmg each round)
2 Surgical Extraction (counters Swords to Plowshares of Timely Reinforcementflashback by Snapcaster Mage and miracles from Entreat/Terminus when he's tapping his Sensei Top.)
Out:
1 Tuktuk Scrapper or Skirk Prospector depended on Vedalken Shackles or not. 1 drop is better but Tuktuk safes vs Shackles
2 Stingscourger
4 Gempalm Incinerator or 3 and 1 Sharpshooter depended on playing Mishra's Factory and/ or Timely Reinforcement and who's starting the game.
G2 is the same gameplan unless that we have disruption for his miracle and sb-tricks and we don't need the tempoplays like g1.
Edit: SB vs RUG.
I don't remember how I boarded. But I boarded Pyrokinesis in.
I think:
+3 Pyrokinesis (combat for Tarmo or early Delver(s) and the have enough CA)
-1 SKirk (we don't need shootertricks or overextending. Maybe he's playing Rough/Trumble. Try to play control and hold his creature off the board)
-1 Shooter
-1 Tuktuk
Ok, away from the blue sideboard. At the moment I try to test Sudden Shock. Nearly uncounterable removal could do well against Mother of Runes, Stoneforge Mytics and others.
Doaes anyone else have some experiences?
I have seen sudden shock in a sideboard before, though it wasn't a goblin deck, for myself I like how Tarfire is nettable via Goblin Matron / Goblin Ringleader so I stick with tarfire's in the sideboard.
If Tarfire did not existed, and Maverick was an abismall MU, then I'd consider it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pee-Dee-2
I like that you sided in 2 Extractions. I've found that to be a super useful card and have considered playing more of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabrab
How do you approach casting your counterspells? I have never been a fan of REB or Pyroblast because I hate chosing between keeping mana open to cast a counterspell or tapping out to put more pressure on the board. Playing strick counters seems like it really slows down your board development. Have you found that to be the case?
@Envelop: People who run it assure it is the best option?
A teammate suggested Flusterstorm, which may seem better, since it comes in against more MU's (like Reanimator). Also, the 2 top decks that Envelop is good against are SnT, where Envelop is easier to FoW, and UW Miracles, where Envelop looks clearly better. But is is worth it because of 1 already good matchup run it instead of Fluster?
Talking about hate, since Goblins became dtb. Isn't Krosan Grip the best answer to face that? It takes care of:
Engeneered Plaque
Engeneered Explosives
Moat
Humility
Ensnearing Bridge
Deed
Shakles
Sword of F/I
Jitte
Sneak Attack
Divining Top
It can't be countered and works with instant speed. You don't have to have it when they play that threat and can pull it up the top of your library or with Gempalm...
Would it be an option instead of blue "counter" splash? Thinking of cards like TSH and ancient grudge.
I had never problem to keep mana open. I would be a turn slower as a fewer turn dead vs combo.Quote:
Originally Posted by jrw1985
Vs Miracle we want to keep 2 (maybe 3) goblins on board and it was easy to keep 1 open but it dependes who starts.
When I start I could tap out in turn 1, 2 and 3 and up turn 4 I need to keep 1 mana open to counter his 4 mana enchantment. Each other turn we have 5+ lands and we never problem to cast Goblin Ringleader and keep 1.
Question about the counter like Envelop vs Spell Pierce vs Flusterstorm.
Each counter shines in some special MU.
Flusterstorm vs Reanimator
Spell Pierce vs Sneakshow + decks which are playing hateenchantments.
Envelop vs Miracle (miracle Entreat + Terminus)
Imo it is a metachoice of the countersplit. I would run 4-5 (I like 5) and depended on meta.
Atm I would say the meta (in Germany) is most Miracle followed by RUG and Maverick. In 2. line is Sneakshow and other decks but Reanimator never show us atm.
Spell Pierce is the flexible cards of the 3 and would run of most like 3 of 5 or 2 of 4 and the other 2 counter slots you may choose depend on your meta.
(sry for my english)
Let your drunk flag fly dude. I'm singing classics from the 90's with my friends right now, and it is awesome.
Does anyone test Tower of Magistrate in the newer past? I think against esper and Mav with Equipments it could work and we can play it main.