[DTB] Blade Control

Hey guys, I think I'm at that point where I need help to tweak my decklist a bit. Here is what I've been playing lately.


4x Polluted Delta
4x Flooded Strand
2x Island
1x Plains
1x Swamp
3x Tundra
2x Underground Sea
1x Scrubland
1x Karakas
1x Creeping Tar Pit
1x Academy Ruins

1x Vindicate
3x Thoughtseize
3x Lingering Souls
3x Painful Truths
3x Supreme Verdict

3x Snapcaster Mage
4x Stoneforge Mystic
1x Vendilion Clique

3x Jace, the Mind Sculptor

1x Batterskull
1x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Engineered Explosives

4x Brainstorm
4x Swords to Plowshares
4x Force of Will



3x Meddling Mage
3x Flusterstorm
2x Detention Sphere
1x Disenchant
1x Grafdigger's Cage
1x Engineered Plague
2x Rest in Peace
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Sword of Feast and Famine


Obviously I'm tuned to grind. I barely have any unfair decks in my meta, and those I have can be handle rather well with the Force of Will and Flusterstorm in the side... but it doesn't mean there's no room for improvements. Here are some of the issues I'm having.

-I'm having issues with sideboarding Force of Will. For this reason, I'm unsure if I should run 3x or 4x maindeck. So far I've been trying to side them out against fair decks, and I mean, all of them, which means 90% of the time. I used to think Force of Will was only great against super unfair decks and needed to be sideboarded out otherwise, but I've seen a lot of players keep them at all time, or just play three. I'm lost in that regards, I believe I know what/when/what cards to pitch to FoW, but not when I should have that FoW or not.

-I'm starting to believe 3x Painful Truths is too much. I've had some cases lately in which I was already low life and couldn't cast the card for its full value.

-I'm missing Riptide Laboratory to play with Snapcaster Mage, but at the same time, that list only runs 3x Snapcaster. I think cutting a Painful Truths for a Snapcaster Mage would be a great improvement, as I would have more chances at flashback a Painful Truths would I miss the 3rd one. I could even cut to one if needed.

-If I still had to play Riptide Laboratory, it would most likely be a cut on a Tundra. Opening hands would be worse, but else than that the difference would be barely noticable with all the basics.

-Talking about the basic lands, they're awesome so far. I wouldn't change a thing regarding those.

-I wouldn't play less than 3x Jace, the Mind Sculptor, but I don't see a need for an other Planeswalker, would it be Elspeth, Liliana, or baby Jace.

-I'm thinking about dropping a Lingering Souls for a True-Name Nemesis. To me, they fit the same role, and having a split could help.

-I still feel no need for Ponder, but I could be wrong. Same for Esper Charm.

-I don't miss any permission spells like Spell Pierce or Spell Snare.

-I used to run 3x Thoughtseize + 3x Inquisition of Kozilek, for 6 discard spells maindeck. It was very fun, but I had to cut somewhere. The slots they had is currently 3x Supreme Verdict. I love Supreme Verdict, and I don't have the same speed/hard to cast issues other players seem to have on this thread. However, because the issues exist, I'm wondering if I wouldn't be better with, for instance, 2x Inquisition of Kozilek / 1x Supreme Verdict. I mostly use Verdict to clear a board full of low CMC creatures anyway, maybe Inquisition of Kozilek is a more proactive solution for the same problem. Engineered Explosives + Academy Ruins already fill a recurrent Supreme Verdict role anyway.

-Regarding the sideboard, I've ran Humility online and I love it. In paper, the Detention Sphere were the lackluster cards. I tried a Council's Judgement, it just feels like a weaker Vindicate to me, I wouldn't run it again. I appreciate the Rest in Peace + Grafdigger's Cage mix, because Grafdigger helps against Elves in my meta.

-I also bring Sword of Feast and Famine against almost any opponent. If a deck plays black or green, or is a combo deck, most likely I'll bring it. To the point I'm wondering if I shouldn't shave the SB slot and put it in the main. I don't want to, it seems like an overwhelming meta call, but the temptation is there.

For a clean TL;DR:

-1 Painful Truths
+1 Snapcaster Mage

-1 Lingering Souls
+1 True-Name Nemesis

-1 Tundra
+1 Riptide Laboratory

-1 Painful Truths
-2 Supreme Verdict
+3 Inquisition of Kozilek

-1 Force of Will
+1 (Snapcaster Mage?)

SB:
-2 Detention Sphere
+1 Humility
+1 (Force of Will?)


Thoughts?

I playtested an Esper Deathblade list with 3 Thalia against Lands. I resolved a Thalia in 3 of the 5 games, and I won each of those games. I lost the other two where I never saw a Thalia.

Seems like small sample. With their Karakas and P Fire, I'd wager that Lands will eventually be on the winning side of that matchup, even with Thalia 2.0. I don't know about Esper, but I do now that Jeskai has access to sb Blood Moon, which has been obvious MVP vs. Lands.

It is pretty apparent that 5 is a small sample. I wouldn't think it would be enough to just land a legendary permanent, but 3 Wastelands and 4 DRS alongside a bit of Countermagic was good. Time will tell, but this is the same attitude that people had in discussions about Mentor, and I feel about thalia the way I did about Mentor, so I'm going to continue testing. It's probably not strong enough in UWr versions because of no access to DRS.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LDX

Hey guys, I think I'm at that point where I need help to tweak my decklist a bit. Here is what I've been playing lately.

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http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/10-05...-superfriends/

If you like grindy esper blade decks, this is a deck I've been having pretty good success with, and it shares a lot of cards with the deck you're running. Obviously a few spots are flex spots, like narset, nahiri etc, but the deck can grind out the long game pretty well and has a pretty decent matchup against just about anything. I like JTMS but tbh at 4 mana it shows up a lot and ends up just being a dead card at the beginning of the game. Narset is an all-star against miracles and any control deck, really. She has a really high loyalty and going to 7 after casting her is a great way for your opponent to have to think hard about what to attack. She's also good against decks that don't run any removal aside from abrupt decay. Nahiri is great because she can get back a countered/discarded jitte or batterskull, as well as pump out tokens every turn. Instead of snapcaster, I opt to run baby Jace because if unanswered, he's extremely oppressive. Can re-cast thoughtseize against combo/control, can recast STP against creature decks, can re-cast ponder/BS in topdeck modes, also while starting off with a loyalty that's quite high.

Lingering souls is great as a 2 of, as you know, because some decks aren't equipped to deal with more than 1 creature at a time, and the value on the flashback is great when we start building up mana. TNN is a beast that represents a really good clock. Lil answers a lot of things that I wouldn't otherwise be able to beat, like opponent's TNNs or whatever. Angler is a fun one-of because sometimes you have a buncha cards in your GY and no real good way to use them outside of baby jace, so being able to just pay B and get a 5/5 can be useful, especially against abrupt decay decks.

Also this type of deck is inherintly weak to things like cloudpost, mud, lands etc. I think going 4 wasteland and no less than 3 is the right choice in this kind of meta.

However, I do like that you're using clique because that card is awesome, but to me it seems like aside from STP and BS, the only things you're flashing back with snapcaster is sorceries so IMO baby jace is just better at doing that. Also I like having both baby jace and SFM as my main 2 drops because both of those cards are the type of thing that needs to be answered that turn (before i untap again) or my opponent is in trouble. I think you should at least try baby jace over regular jace and toss in at least 2 lil and a second TNN. I like the idea of inquisition, and i might replace a ponder or two with inquisition and just see where that takes me.

How has supreme verdict performed for you? I like the idea of an uncounterable wrath in the maindeck, but obviously too many high cost things aren't good for your curve.

Hello guys :)

I kind of new to mtg and legacy (I used to play when I was younger, then I stopped for a while).
I almost managed to build this list: (missing 2 sea and 1 tundra)

Lands (21)

1 Plains
1 Swamp
2 Island
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Scrubland
2 Marsh Flats
2 Tundra
3 Underground Sea
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta

Creatures (12)

4 Baleful Strix
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 True-Name Nemesis

Planeswalkers (4)

1 Liliana of the Veil
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Spells (23)

4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Ponder
2 Vindicate
3 Thoughtseize
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte

Sideboard (15)

4 Meddling Mage
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Painful Truths
2 Rest in Peace
2 Pithing Needle
1 Lingering Souls
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant



What do you think about the list ?
Do you guys have any [tips / advice / mistakes to avoid] about the deck (and the matchups) or about the format in general ?


Thank you for your help :)

I really like your list and it looks quite solid. I think 4 TNN and 4 Strix can get clunky in an Esper control list and would replace one of each with 2 Snapcasters as Esper has one of the best Snapcaster spell suite available. Other than that I preffer Counterspell or Spell Snare over any number of Inquisition of Kozilek and I like having no more than 3 Thoughtseizes as you seem to do too. I think SoFaI is not that great as a pre-board card and rarely ever go for it and I say that as a massive SFM user. I also believe Council's Judgment is a bit better than Vindicate but since you play Liliana you might not want to delve into double W so it gets the job done. Two copies can get heavy though. I suggest getting a single Engineered Explosive in the main over the second copy of Vindicate and have additional copies in the SB as your sweeper of choice. Academy Ruins (over SoFaI as a 22nd land) is a favorite of mine when packing EE in the main/side and 3-4 Baleful Strix.

For your SB, 4 Meddling Mages is often too many and becomes redundant. Maybe replace one or two with a Canonist and/or Containment Priest. Clique seems to fill no particular role and soft counters do better than IoK in general (Flusterstorm or Invasive Surgery). I like the Needles because this deck has no interaction with lands and Needle is a great tool against Miracle. You might need 1-2 more pieces of GY hate perhaps through Containment Priest, Surgical Extraction, or through en Enlightened Tutor package featuring a Grafdigger's Cage. ZP is good but quite narrow in application. I like a singleton but rarely get to use it. I advise EE instead as it is often better against Elves and DnT while also being relevant in many other matchups. Also I think Gideon is slightly better than Elspeth. This would be my SB:

2 Meddling Mage
1 Containment Priest
1 Invasive Surgery
1 Toxic Deluge/Zealous Persecution
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Pithing Needle
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Engineered Explosive
1 Rest in Peace
1 Liliana of the Veil/Painful Truths
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar

Given the following MB changes:
-1 Strix +1 Snap
-1 TNN +1 Snap
-1 IoK +1 Counterspell
-1 Vindicate +1 Explosives
-1 SoFaI +1 Academy Ruins

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Qweerios

I really like your list and it looks quite solid. I think 4 TNN and 4 Strix can get clunky in an Esper control list and would replace one of each with 2 Snapcasters as Esper has one of the best Snapcaster spell suite available. Other than that I preffer Counterspell or Spell Snare over any number of Inquisition of Kozilek and I like having no more than 3 Thoughtseizes as you seem to do too. I think SoFaI is not that great as a pre-board card and rarely ever go for it and I say that as a massive SFM user. I also believe Council's Judgment is a bit better than Vindicate but since you play Liliana you might not want to delve into double W so it gets the job done. Two copies can get heavy though. I suggest getting a single Engineered Explosive in the main over the second copy of Vindicate and have additional copies in the SB as your sweeper of choice. Academy Ruins (over SoFaI as a 22nd land) is a favorite of mine when packing EE in the main/side and 3-4 Baleful Strix.

For your SB, 4 Meddling Mages is often too many and becomes redundant. Maybe replace one or two with a Canonist and/or Containment Priest. Clique seems to fill no particular role and soft counters do better than IoK in general (Flusterstorm or Invasive Surgery). I like the Needles because this deck has no interaction with lands and Needle is a great tool against Miracle. You might need 1-2 more pieces of GY hate perhaps through Containment Priest, Surgical Extraction, or through en Enlightened Tutor package featuring a Grafdigger's Cage. ZP is good but quite narrow in application. I like a singleton but rarely get to use it. I advise EE instead as it is often better against Elves and DnT while also being relevant in many other matchups. Also I think Gideon is slightly better than Elspeth. This would be my SB:

2 Meddling Mage
1 Containment Priest
1 Invasive Surgery
1 Toxic Deluge/Zealous Persecution
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Pithing Needle
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Engineered Explosive
1 Rest in Peace
1 Liliana of the Veil/Painful Truths
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar

Given the following MB changes:
-1 Strix +1 Snap
-1 TNN +1 Snap
-1 IoK +1 Counterspell
-1 Vindicate +1 Explosives
-1 SoFaI +1 Academy Ruins

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Hey, thank you for answering me :)

I like your changes a lot ! I'll have to buy some snapcasters but it's ok ^^

Do you have any advice or tip to give to a new legacy blade control player btw ?

Not much advice really other than gaining experience via playing against various decks. Learning to SB properly and mastering the art of brainstorming is probably the hardest and comes with experience.

You are playing a good deck so perhaps rethink your strategy and your sb decisions when you struggle in a matchup. Avoid making radical changes to a good deck if you don't fully understand the dynamics of a given matchup. Most importantly have fun? :D

Okay, got it :)

Need to play a lot now !

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Qweerios

Not much advice really other than gaining experience via playing against various decks. Learning to SB properly and mastering the art of brainstorming is probably the hardest and comes with experience.

You are playing a good deck so perhaps rethink your strategy and your sb decisions when you struggle in a matchup. Avoid making radical changes to a good deck if you don't fully understand the dynamics of a given matchup. Most importantly have fun? :D

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nah what are you talking about. End of turn Brainstorms are always the best.

Eh, they are pretty good, but the best ones are in response to discard spells/Vendilion Clique triggers.

I have a small legacy local tomorrow and I'm probably running Esperblade. Can I get some feedback?

Lands [20]
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
3 Tundra
3 Underground Sea
2 Island
1 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Karakas

Creatures [11]
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Baleful Strix
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 True-Name Nemesis

Spells [29]
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Thoughtseize
3 Ponder
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Lingering Souls
2 Counterspell
1 Spell Snare
1 Painful Truths
1 Vindicate
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull

Sideboard [15]
3 Back to Basics
3 Meddling Mage
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Rest in Peace
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Zealous Persecution
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Pithing Needle
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar

I expect a lot of Miracles and Eldrazi, I guess the sideboard is covered for that. Back to Basics is the best solution for Lands and Aggro Loam that I found in Esper colors. I really like the manabase, I usually fetch basics unless I really need to fetch black. Counterspell and Painful Truths give the edge in mid to late game. And Baleful Strix, the best card to have in a format of 5/5 trample hasters and Griselbrand, right?

Am I missing something? Maybe jam some Academy Ruins + EE recursion?

Painful Truths might be overkill, and I'd try to squeeze in more basics. New Thalia is a disaster.

@Vandalize: I don't think souls is great right now, and would rather have 1 more snap and 1 more TNN. Karakas is unnecessary and would be better as just marsh flats. I think EE is really good right now, it's awesome vs chalice, miracles, delver and any vial deck. In lots of testing, I have found academy ruins to be really really bad. You have to count it as a spell, and not as one of the 20 lands if you want to run it. Running 1 or even 2 EE with no academy ruins is fine. I would swap vindicate for EE.

Vindicate is your only out to CB, chalice or other troublesome artifacts/enchantments in your 75. I would cut RIP and SoF&I and add some combination of disenchants and EE in the SB.

@TheArchitect

I agree with you that Souls probably doesn't have a place to be when options like TNN and Snap are present.

I find a single Vindicate/Judgment to be quite good at removing random troublesome permanents. As much as I like EE I think the diversity of splitting the two cards is better than going all out one. Snapcaster is a great reason to have a Vindicate effect available as well. EE is amazing as a sweeper against certain decks and a Vindicate against others but doing the latter is usually much more mana intensive. Ideally I think that having 1 Vindicate and 2 EE is even better than trying to split the slots.

Have you tried ruins with Baleful Strix? My last list played mainboard 2 EE, 3 Strix, and Jitte/BSkull as artifacts and Ruins was always welcomed. You only really need about 18 or 19 colored lands and a total of 21-22 lands for the manabase to be optimal, this gives you some space for some utility lands and a healthy basic land count. If anything I would weight Ruins against Wasteland or Karakas.

UW Blade with Factory and TKS is a really interesting take.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HSCK

UW Blade with Factory and TKS is a really interesting take.

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Indeed. I just wonder, how good is TKS without acceleration? Is he good enough on turn 4?

Serious question, I really don't know.

Just spitballing ideas or did someone place in an event with it?

Clique seems better honestly, Has flash and holds a blade better and you don't have to play an awkward amount of colorless sources.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lord_Mcdonalds

Just spitballing ideas or did someone place in an event with it?

Clique seems better honestly, Has flash and holds a blade better and you don't have to play an awkward amount of colorless sources.

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http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...imore&state=MD

U/W Stoneblade 13th Darrel Feltner StarCityGames.com Classic Legacy 2016-07-31 Baltimore