[Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

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Originally Posted by Lemnear

There were 5 TES among 690 players afaik and all (including me) eliminated day 1. I can only talk for myself here, but the meta was pretty rough for a fragile construct like TES with various hate within single decks, masses of Miracles/Esperblade (with Cannonist)/MUD/Painter and ontop of that I lost all but 3 dicerolls (16 rounds total with trial and Mainevent but I dropped the last one in both events due to being practically eliminated).

Regarding your question: It was both. A lot more players (and good ones too) picked ANT for the event, which is more successful in outplaying manadenial/-block which was omnipresent.

Losing dicerolls against decks like Painter/MUD/Miracles/etc. is a near 1-2 loss and the sources/results of my defeats. It doesn't matter if you beat the rest then. :/

Didn't face a single deck which Telemin would have been an option. Guess being unlucky again.

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I played in a 12 man GPT today with Telemin, four of the twelve decks Telemin would've been good against and I still didn't cast it once (I had an opportunity in the mirror game two but would've lost if he sided in Xantid). It's likely that Tropical is going back in my sideboard for stability against decks like Death and Taxes. My only loss was to RUG.


On a side note, a friend of mine is testing Mox Diamond over the third Chrome. I don't like it all all, but he claims it's been better than Chrome for him.

I've done that before. Playing a mox instead of running 4 chrome then. It only shines after u have cards off an ad naus.
Having mana stability in a meta like this where every deck runs a set of waste not to mention stifles is a good advantage. But i'll still go with tes because i love doing turn one or two kill or puking out 14 plus tokens.
i lost my last round because he had a wall of counterspells negating evevery spell i make.
Good job to ant players. They sure are DTB.

On my side i've drop after 6 round

Meet Goblin, Dredge, sneak show, TT, reanimator, random deck

it happened quite a lot during the WE that i've in starting hand probe lotus dark ritual golden land tutor led rite of flame (would you keep this kind of hand against rea / sneak ? it's quite a perfect hand but each time they got FOW in hand (see with probe) and finally with lineley for sneak and discard on rea side i could do anything. and with this kind f deck the clock is tight.

The "Problem" is that Silence is horrible to stop other combo decks (maybe aside storm) and to disrupt decks with various hate (counter+discard/counter+hatebear/all 3). It's only good against pure sorcery speed hate or passive decks with counters.

Noticed that across the weekend. Have to reflect the weekend. Am a bit frustrated because there was no Chance to avoid the 4x 1-2 losses and the draw (all after loosing the dice) after reviewing my notes. Take this post only with a grain of salt

-.-'

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Originally Posted by Lemnear

The "Problem" is that Silence is horrible to stop other combo decks (maybe aside storm) and to disrupt decks with various hate (counter+discard/counter+hatebear/all 3). It's only good against pure sorcery speed hate or passive decks with counters.

Noticed that across the weekend. Have to reflect the weekend. Am a bit frustrated because there was no Chance to avoid the 4x 1-2 losses and the draw (all after loosing the dice) after reviewing my notes. Take this post only with a grain of salt

-.-'

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So finaly don't have to regret anything i did what i have to do with almost no chance of success

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Originally Posted by Lemnear

The "Problem" is that Silence is horrible to stop other combo decks (maybe aside storm) and to disrupt decks with various hate (counter+discard/counter+hatebear/all 3). It's only good against pure sorcery speed hate or passive decks with counters.

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Perhaps it's time for an ANT-like discard only protection suite main deck?
4x Duress, 3x Cabal Therapy or the other way around.
We then only have green mana for Swarms and Decays to worry about. This could affect the mana base as well.

Yeah I think the issue would be that you can't really run a discard suite like ANT on this mana base that relies on 0 basics, 4 lands that deplete themselves, and a couple of lands that deal us damage.

At the point that you are changing up the whole protection suite and mana base, why not just play ANT?

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Originally Posted by Megadeus

Yeah I think the issue would be that you can't really run a discard suite like ANT on this mana base that relies on 0 basics, 4 lands that deplete themselves, and a couple of lands that deal us damage.

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Why not? Silence is harder to cast in TES than Cabal Therapy or Duress. In my opinion it's only getting easier to cast them.

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Originally Posted by Megadeus

At the point that you are changing up the whole protection suite and mana base, why not just play ANT?

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TES is faster. But you know the difference between TES and ANT. Your choice depends on your evaluation of the meta and your playing style.
And I'm not saying we should completely change the mana base if we decide to run discard only. I would suggest we try -1 City of Brass, +1 fetch and a guaranteed sideboard slot for the Tropical.

Stop right here! Silence traded for value for my teammate and was golden in most matches. It however loses value being on the draw, when Delver is already attacking or you face various hate.

The list was good. Maybe it was bad luck, bad matchups or a difficult metagame.

Just a quick summary of my last month's tournaments.

Oct 6. SCG:IQ (16 players)
2-1-1 in swiss, beating ANT and something Delver (I think, but I know EtW got me the wins) and losing to my own misplays against Mono-Blue Tezzeret.
In T8, beat Jund.
In T4, lose to Shardless BUG due to my own misplays.

Nov. 2 GPT:DC (16 players)
2-1-1 in swiss, Beating UWR Delver and High Tide (on the back of double silence), losing to Death & Taxes (I did get to flashback Diminishing Returns, yes, I was desperate).
T8- Beat Mono-Black Hexmage-Depths (G1- Brainstorm in response to Thoughtseize, hiding Ad Nauseum and G.Probe leaving my hand landx2, LEDx2 and I.Tutor, G2- He has T1 CotV with discard and Hex/Depths combo, G3- Pretty Much the nuts and Tendrils on T2)
T4- Lost to RUG. G1, he had T1 Delver followed by Daze, Spell Pierce and 3x FoW.

TL;DR The deck is solid and was well positioned for the tournaments that I have entered. I only missed IGG from the board once and Thoughtseize has been exceptional

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Originally Posted by Asthereal

Why not? Silence is harder to cast in TES than Cabal Therapy or Duress. In my opinion it's only getting easier to cast them.

TES is faster. But you know the difference between TES and ANT. Your choice depends on your evaluation of the meta and your playing style.
And I'm not saying we should completely change the mana base if we decide to run discard only. I would suggest we try -1 City of Brass, +1 fetch and a guaranteed sideboard slot for the Tropical.

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I guess what I am saying is that the mana base is more fragile so being able to cast discard for a turn or two may be a bit more difficult just because your mana is dealing you damage or your land getting wasted. Also losing rainbow lands weakens our side board choices of decay and swarm right?

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Originally Posted by Megadeus

I guess what I am saying is that the mana base is more fragile so being able to cast discard for a turn or two may be a bit more difficult just because your mana is dealing you damage or your land getting wasted. Also losing rainbow lands weakens our side board choices of decay and swarm right?

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Lands getting wasted was always a problem for TES. That's not new, and doesn't change whether you play 7x discard or Silences and discard.

Stock list Bryant has developed has this to cast Silences, Swarms and Decays: 4x Gemstone Mine, 2x City of Brass, 4x Lotus Petal
Bryant later proposed we play a Tropical on side, giving us 3x fetch and a Trop extra, but they don't help to cast Silence.

If we lose the Silences, we could play: 4x Gemstone Mine, 1x City of Brass, 4x fetch, 1x Tropical, 4x Lotus Petal. That's more green mana than the stock list, and the same as Bryants list with Tropical on side. So we have a fetch more (which improves our cantrips) and we have more green mana available to us than the stock list. I fail to see how this weakens Swarm and Decay on side. :wink:

On a different note, Lemnear might be right to want to hold on to Silence for a while longer. I am a big fan of fooling around with the list, and I must add that Cabal Therapy improves with every spell that allows us to see the opposing hand, so I would be very interested if anyone would be bold enough to try this change in a tourney. :smile:

I recommend maxing the Therapies across the 75 before toying with Silences or such. Flashbacking Therapies off EtW and trading 1-for-2 was nuts all the weekend.

We may need to tinker about the Painter- & Esperblade-matchups. Those are horrible once you lose the dice

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Originally Posted by Lemnear

The "Problem" is that Silence is horrible to stop other combo decks (maybe aside storm) and to disrupt decks with various hate (counter+discard/counter+hatebear/all 3). It's only good against pure sorcery speed hate or passive decks with counters.

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Haven't you usually championed TES exactly on the back of Silence being godlike vs. combo compared to Duress effects?

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Originally Posted by Lemnear

We may need to tinker about the Painter- & Esperblade-matchups. Those are horrible once you lose the dice

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I am thinking about cards like Hurkyl's Recall against Painter. It is dead against Chalice on two, but I feel like most time they drop the Chalice on one to stop us. Do this in their end step to bounce stuff and clear the way for a combo the next turn, or even do this with Silence in hand to upkeep Silence-walk them and get 2 turns out of it to replay stuff, and then combo out... worse case, you can bounce their stuff and then Therapy it our of their hand on your turn. Slows the deck down a lot, but removes some problem stuff from play.

The other card I have been thinking about against Painter is Pulvarize. 4RR, You may sacrifice two Mountains instead of paying the mana cost... destroy all artifacts. Under a Blood Moon all your lands are Mountains, so tap them for mana, sac two of them for a free Pulverize (free Storm +1). The odds of them having Chalice on 6 is low. This also allows you to have a game 1 answer to Painter since you can just cast a Burning Wish with your two mountains and then blow up all Artifacts. Seems really narrow, and Hurkyl's Recall seems a lot better in our deck anyway... just brainstorming ideas.

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Originally Posted by Zombie

Haven't you usually championed TES exactly on the back of Silence being godlike vs. combo compared to Duress effects?

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Yes, I did. The issue is that Silence isn't backbreaking for non-storm combo but often eats away important Gemstone-counters just for timewalking where discard would solve the Problem and is the reason we don't run Chant alongside Silence but discard. We want the benefits of both angles: Silence for protection and Therapy for disruption.

Therefore I don't want to start a discussion about the protection; I just asked for input about the Thoughtseize+FoW+Cannonist-Menace i whitnessed at BoM and the T1 Thorns/Bloodmoons from Painter

Thoughtseize + fow combo was just awfull during the bom because even if you have hand you cant cast it and you will loose your perfect hand right after. Means you need brainstorm to ide stuff + sure to draw silence or discard to combo right after. In one word you need to get perfect draw perfect time perfect everything
Hate was easier too manage blood moon do to rite of flamme / burning wish + petal led
If you add thorn .... need to get petal chain + land ... in your not out of tempo allready. We could think of wear and tear in the right color but i guess if blood moon + thorn on the board we will need 4/5 mana available

Legacy Champs 16th place report

Round 1: Sam with UWB Landstill
Sam is a Philly local player whom I’ve had the chance to face several times over the past couple months. Apparently he doesn’t remember my name…
Game 1: I win the die role and see scrubland, sea, brainstorm, wasteland, flooded strand, jace out of my opponents hand thanks to probe. I put him on stone blade from those cards and proceed sculpting my hand. He brainstorms into a solid 2 more force of wills while casually drawing a third while chunking me with Mishra’s factory after EoT cycling decree of justice (definitely not stoneblade at this point) and pitches a force and cunning wish to counter my cabal therapy. At some point he cunning wishes for extirpate to hit my infernal tutors. I’m too low for ad nauseum, so Diminishing returns it is! A probe post Dim Ret reveals I don’t have to fight through a 4th force of will this game, and I BW for tendrils.

Game 2: Another mull to 6 from Sam reveals not much of anything and I slowly tutor for redundant rituals and kill with past in flames. He has EE on 0 to stop goblins plan, but since he cast EE before I had the tokens to avoid the discard, my decision to bring in swarm pays off here.
1-0

Round 2: Ian with Esper Stoneblade
Ian is an amiable fellow whom I’ve seen around larger events, perhaps at a vendor’s table?
Game 1: Ian wins the die roll with stalled lands. My discard shows double force, double snap and later counterspell and stoneforge that he is fearful to cast since he’ll have to tap out. Instead, snapcaster at EoT starts chipping at me. I drop to 1 life as I cast probe and silence. I get snapcaster -> spell pierced but my dark ritual response lets me continue a chain and I naturally tendrils him thanks to the storm.

Game 2: Another slow start from Ian lets me set up Ad nauseum through double force of will. Thought seize and probe out of my hurt a little but I have too much mana for it to matter. Thanks Lion’s eye diamond!
2-0

Round 3: Rob on UBrwg Doomsday
Hey, its MisterCakes!
Game 1: I probe reveals silence, brainstorm, strand, karakas, petal, volc, and doomsday so I know what I am up against. The plan is to hold up silence while stripping his them comboing under its protection. I hit thoughtseize instead and can safely end it there.

Game 2: Thoughtseize takes doomsday but a top makes me wary of a silence floating on the top of his deck ready to stop me when I go for it. He runs out of cards and taps his one white source with a fetchland in play and it is time. I cast a seize number 2 and he reponds with the fetch. I respond with a silence and miscount storm and make goblins (tendrils would have been lethal) He dies on his next turn anyway, unable to find an answer.
3-0

Round 4: Will with OmniShow
Game 1: He preordains and hides a show and tell on top from my probe. I am forced to silence the following turn. He goes for cunning wish into release the ants after dropping in the omniscience, but after 10 or so flips, his force on top is met with my ad nauseum. He has a force of will though and I lose.

Game 2: Will starts with a leyline of sanctity (But naturally I have the chain of vapor). My discard hits him hard taking show and tell and later another enabler. I believe I get there with past in flames

Game 3: His hand enables a quick turn 3 show and tell into omniscience, but fails to have the kill. His show and tell however gives me xantid swarm for free! One trigger later I safely ad nauseum.
4-0

Round 5: Scott with Merfolk
Game 1: Scott wins the roll, mulls to 6 and opens with vial. I cast thoughtseize and see waste, force, silvergill adept, master of the pearl trident. I take Force, get wastelanded and then aggro’d out of the game when mutavault and another lord joins up. I cast 3 brainstorms asap here digging for a bomb, and that was possibly a mistake; waiting on the cantrips might have been better.

Game 2: Probe reveals Scott snap-kept 2 LoA, 2 island, mutavault, daze, relic of progen. I don’t see why it’s amazing, but he does get to play magic so I can’t be too hard on him. Predictably, relic does dick and I respond to a daze on my rite of flame with a ritual to win it through tutor chain. Thanks for the storm!

Game 3: I keep a hand I probably shouldn’t have in this matchup: I can strip him of counters very easily, but doing so leaves me with nothing to do! I die to some number of lords while wasteland and brainstorm lock seals it.
4-1

Round 6: Shawn with Reanimator.
Game 1: My opponent wins the die roll and leads with underground sea. I play gemstone and pass with silence available. Shawn draws, plays a delta and a lotus petal, and then he casts main phase entomb. I respond with silence and he has a moment of confusion about whether or not silence prevents entomb from resolving… (Clearly here to play vintage tomorrow!). He fetches a griselbrand after a judge clarifies he gets to tutor. I cast silence twice more in his upkeep on subsequent turns and go with ad nauseum.

Had Shawn cracked delta, cast petal, cast exhume (his reanimation spell) then maintained priority and casted the entomb, I wouldn’t have had a chance to silence. Something to think about.

Game 2: He can’t find a proper reanimation spell while Xantid swarm turns off his only meaningful interaction. A swift ad nauseum lets me get food from Reading Terminal Market.
5-1

Round 7: Steve with RUG Delver
Steve is a friend I’ve come to know through Chas Hinkle. He’s a good player who has celebrated moderate success with BURG delver recently and an opponent whom I’m not very confident facing. He also is apparently a recent sourcer?
Game 1: Turn one delver from him fails to flip and my hand is the nuts. Silence resolves thanks to casting dark ritual to pay for soft counters and ad nauseum takes it from here.

Game 2: These delvers don’t want to flip! Thoughtseize reveals a reasonable hand of Daze, REB, Force, Volc, Misty and force gets taken. I take minor beats as I sculpt mana and cast infernals to double up on rituals. Casting 2 rite of flames, responding to a pierce with dark ritual breaks me out of his soft counters and LED plus a wish gets me past in flames to run it all back. Sorry Steve
6-1

Round 8: Mike with elves
Mike was extremely nervous going into this match, saying repeatedly “I’ve never done this well before anywhere”.
Game 1: Probe and therapy see Savana, visionary, glimpse of nature, 2 heritage druids, and symbiote. I therapy the heritage to prevent a second turn hoof possibility while take minor beats. I cast ad nauseum from 14 life without playing a land drop, leaving an LED uncracked. I hit every tutor in the deck and some cantrips without hitting lands or initial mana sources. Perhaps I should have cracked the LED?

Game 2: He casts creatures, I cast half my deck.

Game 3: We ruin each others hands with discard and I lose double dark rituals to a single therapy. I should have simply hid them with a brainstorm I’d cast the turn earlier, but wasn’t thinking about it. We play draw go for a while as topdecked elves slowly whittle me down. I wish for Diminishing Returns for the hopeful save a turn early and he flashes back therapy to take it. Derp.
6-2

Round 9: Ben with Elves
Ben is a guy I went to college with whom has been playing elves for quite a while now, main decking Ruric Thar in this meta. Unfortunately for him I was fresh of the punt fest of round 8 and was angry.
Game 1: I am on the play and get to see the Ruric Thar waving at me from is opening hand. I’m sure he has other ways to get it into play besides natural order, but never decide to let him show me them. His hand of 2 visionary, 2 heritage, llanowar, forest, ruric, NO doesn’t interact.

Game 2: He mulligans aggressively as I happily keep a good 7 that includes chain of vapor. Gaddock teeg makes an appearance as I get beaten down to 9. Chain plus a number of LEDs enable the mana and storm to make me wish I was playing doomsday (I’m kidding, but chain of vapor is my favorite sideboard card). Dimishing returns puts this game away easily after a thoughtseize ensures I’m not about to be ambushed by mindbreak trap.
7-2

I squeak into 16th place over my round 6 opponent and earn $200
Props: Bryant for maintaining the decklist and primer here on the source.
Slops: Bryant for not coming to play on Saturday :(

Good stuff. God reading tourney reports has got me itching to punt with this deck again...

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Originally Posted by Tammit67

I squeak into 16th place over my round 6 opponent and earn $200
Props: Bryant for maintaining the decklist and primer here on the source.
Slops: Bryant for not coming to play on Saturday :(

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Congrats.

I couldn't justify it after Indy the week before. It's a little rough, the prizes sucked and it's also not fair to my dog.

To everyone complaining about the protection package. I think some of the problems you may be facing may actually be from too many Cabal Therapy. While I love the card as much as the next guy, it's not exactly ideal on turn one or two without Probe and can cause awkward situations when you look at the different hate card. This is why I'm still running 3/2 on Therapy/Thoughtseize in the entire 75.