[Deck] Reanimator

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Originally Posted by Esper3k

Again, just wanting to ask - why do people play Sheoldred? I'm curious what she's there for that isn't answered by Griselbrand, Elesh Norn, Iona, or Tidespout?

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The answer I got for this is in my eyes that it's specifically win-more. That said, it is good in the mirror. Single-handedly shut down my opponents multiple times. Even I have to Exhume to hit her, it usually works out in my advantage since they have to sacrifice what they just put into play come their turn. Even if they get their draws off of Grizzie, I still already have my creature on the board, can most likely bypass anything else they drop via Swampwalk (especially if they just used Griselbrands D7 multiple times or used Reanimate to grab him and D7 once), and gets me more guys while continuing to kill of theirs. Their only answer becomes a Tidespout Tyrant with another card, Kederekt Leviathan, or Angel of Despair which won't always happen. That having been said, I'll probably wind up swapping her for a 3rd Griselbrand once I get one and maybe trying her in the side still, but I doubt even then.

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Originally Posted by BlackFlameAshura

The answer I got for this is in my eyes that it's specifically win-more. That said, it is good in the mirror. Single-handedly shut down my opponents multiple times. Even I have to Exhume to hit her, it usually works out in my advantage since they have to sacrifice what they just put into play come their turn. Even if they get their draws off of Grizzie, I still already have my creature on the board, can most likely bypass anything else they drop via Swampwalk (especially if they just used Griselbrands D7 multiple times or used Reanimate to grab him and D7 once), and gets me more guys while continuing to kill of theirs. Their only answer becomes a Tidespout Tyrant with another card, Kederekt Leviathan, or Angel of Despair which won't always happen. That having been said, I'll probably wind up swapping her for a 3rd Griselbrand once I get one and maybe trying her in the side still, but I doubt even then.

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Iona on Black or Griselbrand should pretty much win the mirror as well though...

Hence me saying its still win more and will turn into Griselbrand number 3 as soon as possible.

So this is the deck I am gonna bring to my friday legacy fnm, please feel free to critique

16 Lands
4 Underground sea
4 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
1 Verdant Catacomb
1 Bloodstained mire
2 Island
1 Swamp

7 Creatures
3 Griselbrand
1 Iona
1 Tidesprout
1 Elesh Norn
1 Sphinx of steel wind

4 Force of Will
2 Daze
4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder
4 Careful Study
4 Exhume
4 Entomb
4 Reanimate
2 Thoughtseize
2 Show and tell

4 Lotus Petal


SB:
2 City of traitors
2 Jace, TMS
1 Karakas
2 Wipe away
2 Pithing needle
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Spell pierce
1 Flusterstorm
2 Thoughtseize
1 Angel of Despair


I am hesitant on the 2 copies of daze at the moment, not sure if a couple is effective in game 1. Might wanna change it to one more ponder and angel of despair. What you guys think?

Not a fan of Daze as a 2 of simply because it's a card you want to see early and not late. As a 2-of, you're not going to be consistently seeing it so there's no real point in running it.

Why aren't you running the 4th Griselbrand? He's pretty much Sphinx of the Steel Wind, but better...

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Originally Posted by Esper3k

Not a fan of Daze as a 2 of simply because it's a card you want to see early and not late. As a 2-of, you're not going to be consistently seeing it so there's no real point in running it.

Why aren't you running the 4th Griselbrand? He's pretty much Sphinx of the Steel Wind, but better...

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Yea I agree but I only have 3 copies at the moment, will add it in immediately as soon I lay my hands on the 4th one.

I top 64ed in DC and will be writing a brief report. I went 6-3, beating Miracles once, Jund twice, RUG Delver once, High Tide once, and Elves once. I lost to Miracles once, TES once, and UR delver after he brought in eleven hate cards. Sad day.

I played two daze. Don't do it. I wanted more free protection as I was trying to go off or as I was attempting to draw protection with Griselbrand after he resolved, but it was too cute and it hurt my threat count way too much.

I'll post a list in an hour or two and a more detailed report of what happened.

Don't play Daze. It isn't worth it.

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Originally Posted by Dyvith

I top 64ed in DC and will be writing a brief report. I went 6-3, beating Miracles once, Jund twice, RUG Delver once, High Tide once, and Elves once. I lost to Miracles once, TES once, and UR delver after he brought in eleven hate cards. Sad day.

I played two daze. Don't do it. I wanted more free protection as I was trying to go off or as I was attempting to draw protection with Griselbrand after he resolved, but it was too cute and it hurt my threat count way too much.

I'll post a list in an hour or two and a more detailed report of what happened.

Don't play Daze. It isn't worth it.

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Or just only play them when you're on the play. I regularly counter force of will's with daze on the play. I board them out for anti-hate on the draw, and then often board them in game 3 if it gets there.

I would think that we've got a pretty favorable matchup against the Storm decks - am I mistaken on this? We've got countermagic + hand disruption on top of landing Griselbrand or Iona should usually be game over for them?

So, I don't even remember the exact list I registered because I changed it so much immediately proceeding the event because I was unhappy with specific cards. I cut the two dazes for two more ponders and I cut a land for a third thoughtseize. I'm also running a singleton chrome mox which has been insane for me.

R1 against UR Delver, I win a narrow game one and then I found out that he boarded in 11 hate spells, so I resolve nothing either game and end up losing to one threat in each game as I simply cant assemble anything. Losing to a singleton Grim Lavamancer because nothing is resolving is annoying. He brought in Surgical, Crypt, REBs, Flusterstorms, Gilded Drakes, etc. It was actually insane.

1-2, 0-1 in games.

R2 against Jund, Gerard Fabiano

Playing against the guy that just T4ed that Standard Open was interesting considering I was in the 0-1 bracket. I lose the die roll and he has T1 Deathrite. Turns out that T1 Griselbrand beats that.

G2 he assembles a clock a little too fast and I die one turn before I stabilize as he kills me for eight with two Deathrite activations on my end step and on his turn.

G3 I win because he surgicals with one mana open and a hand of REBs to my two cards. My only out is double daze, which I have because he can't REB and he can't pay for surgical. It was very lucky, but I think that if those cards were real cards and not Dazes, it wouldn't of even mattered.

1-1

R3 against ANT

G1 I assemble an early Griselbrand and win. Magic is hard.
G2 goes on for a while until he is finally able to go off with my having no fatty in play.
G3 I think I made a mistake. I assembled t2 exhume on whatever I wanted, but chose to get Iona. He blind draws Karakas off the top and kills me the turn after. I think that I boarded wrong because I didn't bring in Karakas, which I should have, but I also should have just gotten Griselbrand. It was loose and it was a direct result of not having enough experience with the deck. I'll never make that mistake again.

1-2

R4 against Jund

I don't remember exactly what happens, but being in the 1-2 bracket, I got paired against someone that wasn't so amazing. Though he was a nice guy, I quickly beat him 2-0, winning G2 by T1 Reanimating again vs his T1 Deathrite Shaman. Sometimes it's better to be lucky than skilled!

R5, R6, and R7 - in some order - I played against High Tide, RUG, and Elves.

Vs. Elves

I get him quickly G1 with Elesh after getting around a Deathrite. I'm pretty sure I SnT'ed it into play, but I'm not 100% on this.
G2 I keep a loose hand and he has double Deathrite and I can't get around it in time.
G3 I have a solid hand but he has double Deathrite again. On the critical turn, he only has mana to activate one Deathrite and I only have two mana going into my turn with Careful Study, Griselbrand, Exhume, Lotus Petal, so I can effectively do nothing to his Deathrite as I would need another mana source AND an entomb or another Griselbrand, which is of course what I draw. Then, we continue to battle back and forth, which his double Deathrite plus other dorks getting in there and me getting in there but not being able to draw any cards. On a critical turn, I'm at 12 life and he has four lands and four dorks in play. He taps eight mana and casts Craterhoof and I just tank because I psych myself into thinking he has something crazy to kill me. He doesn't and I tank for like two minutes and he can't kill me. Oy.

Vs. High Tide

This should be a bye, but G1 I cast all the ponders and brainstorms in my deck, plus half the careful studies without seeing anything besides lands and cantrips, never seeing a dork, a reanimator spell, or an entomb. I finally careful study away an Elesh Norn but my opponent has five lands and a hand of seven cards and kills me with ease.

G2 I get Grisel into play and out card advantage him.

G3 he loses to a T2 Iona with protection. Yay magic!

Vs. RUG

I resolve Grislebrand both games, with G1 being relatively easy and G2 being incredibly tight. Reanimator feels really weak to these decks that have an early clock and infinite disruption, but I'm able to get him before he can clock me, as Grisel races Goyf, Delver, and Mongoose. On a key turn in G2, I have just enought mana to cast Thoughtseize and Animate Dead, but my life total is very low. My opponent has two cards in hand and I'm worried about disruption. I know one card is Bolt, but I'm worried about Stifle so I thoughtseize him and he spell pierces rather than bolting in response. If he had just bolted me, I would have taken five rather than the three I took later on, and I would have died at exactly 0 two turns later. Instead I resolve Grislebrand and he narrowly wins the game for me.

R 8 and R 9 vs Miracles

I win R9 and lose R8. Here are the highlights.

G1 I have the t2 reanimate, but he has the blind T2 karakas + RIP hand. A few turns later I lose to his one of Entreat before I can cast a SnT or a dork.
G2 I end the game with Karakas, Jace, Tidespout, and Grislebrand in play. My opponent has no permanents left.
G3 My opponent Karakas's my Karakas, Cliques me, and beats me down for a few turns. The turn before I die, my hand is straight trash because I've drawn so poorly, and I rip Karakas #2 to keep me in it. I keep it going for a little longer and then he of course rips his one of Entreat again, which I think is just horrible against me, and he wins.

Womp womp.

R9 I'm playing for top 64, which is frustrating because I've been doing so well up until this event with the deck.

I don't remember what happens G1 but I think I win.
I win the deciding game (either G2 or G3, I don't remember if we went to 3 or not) by hardcasting three fatties in a row. Turns out the CB for 8 just isn't that reliable. He hardcasts Force on my Tidespout, then he Forces pitching something on my Grisel, and then loses to the next Griselbrand. I draw cards. He loses.

This is what I am on at the moment

4 Grislebrand
1 Iona
1 Elesh
1 Tidespout

4 Exhume
2 Animate Dead
3 Reanimate'

4 Entomb
4 Careful Study

4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm

4 Force of Will
3 Thoughtseize

2 Show and Tell

4 Lotus Petal
1 Chrome Mox
4 Underground Sea
1 Swamp
2 Island
4 Polluted Delta
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Verdant Catacombs

SB:
2 Spell Pierce
2 Jace, TMS
2 Karakas
2 SnT
2 Surgical
1 Terastadon
2 Pithing Needle
2 Repeal

I still don't really know the intricacies of SBing with the deck and I'd love some assistance. I feel like this is also one of the biggest issues that I am facing ATM.

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Originally Posted by Dyvith

This is what I am on at the moment

4 Grislebrand
1 Iona
1 Elesh
1 Tidespout

4 Exhume
2 Animate Dead
3 Reanimate'

4 Entomb
4 Careful Study

4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm

4 Force of Will
3 Thoughtseize

2 Show and Tell

4 Lotus Petal
1 Chrome Mox
4 Underground Sea
1 Swamp
2 Island
4 Polluted Delta
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Verdant Catacombs

SB:
2 Spell Pierce
2 Jace, TMS
2 Karakas
2 SnT
2 Surgical
1 Terastadon
2 Pithing Needle
2 Repeal

I still don't really know the intricacies of SBing with the deck and I'd love some assistance. I feel like this is also one of the biggest issues that I am facing ATM.

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Honestly, that may be because you have kind of a weird sideboard. I'm supremely not a fan of the Repeal--Chain of Vapor is 1 mana and it bounces anything you need. Surgical seems sort of pointless since there aren't any graveyard decks that we care about besides the mirror, in which Karakas is going to do a lot better for you.

I also don't really see how the Jace is helping there. It's not like people are boarding out threats and you have no way to protect him. You also have a pretty thick maindeck, like there isn't a lot to maneuver with in there. This is another reason I like daze: it's overwhelmingly powerful game one and not that great game 2, it makes boarding it out for anti-hate easier and the deck becomes more adaptable.

I also don't run SnT however, which also frees up slots, because I'm still quite convinced that it's not that hard to fight through hate and having a lot of answers and being faster is probably better than being incredibly slow and trying to assemble an incredibly narrow 2 card combo in hand: SnT + Griselbrand.

I don't think the board is weird at all. Surgical may seem strange, but it gives us a lot of reach, and it can be very useful after drawing a bunch of cards off Griselbrand.

Jace is pretty common in Reanimator SBs at the moment as one of the ways that we fight against Miracles and sometimes Esper. Repeal is a way of dealing with problem permanents without losing card advantage, which is often very important when you are one card short.

Also, SnT plus any fatty is fine. I board into the 8th fatty and I have 12 cards that allow me to filter. That's a pretty a-ok way to get a dork into play. I've considered running more than just 2 SnT main.

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Originally Posted by Esper3k

I would think that we've got a pretty favorable matchup against the Storm decks - am I mistaken on this? We've got countermagic + hand disruption on top of landing Griselbrand or Iona should usually be game over for them?

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Depends highly on your and the opponent's hand.
If you have combo + FoW you'll win.
If you have to dig for the combo, your opponent can just Silence -> kill you.
One big edge you have on TES is that you can get an Elesh into play, killing the EtW guys.
But in general my estimation is 55-45 for Reanimator. Slight edge, but very loseable.

Them drawing the Karakas against you is pretty lame.

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Originally Posted by Esper3k

I would think that we've got a pretty favorable matchup against the Storm decks - am I mistaken on this? We've got countermagic + hand disruption on top of landing Griselbrand or Iona should usually be game over for them?

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Been practicing TES and my friend's reanimator wins 75% of time. I lack Karakas though.

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Originally Posted by Nihil Credo

Hey guys, as I'm sure you have noticed the thread's primer is fucking ancient, and was always quite shitty to begin with. Since this thread keeps bouncing in and out of the DTBF basically every other month, it would be probably be a good idea to get a reboot going with a non-shitty non-ancient primer.

So if you were thinking about writing one, or even if you weren't, consider it a nudge in that direction.

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This was a couple pages ago, I have noticed since then however, this is, obviously, still the thread being used. I have either gone insane or I'm already crazy to begin with, but I've now done 5 massive primers with tons upon tons of research for each, everything stemming from actual results that is top 16 placings, or in cases of fringe decks with fewer success, top 32 placings at the top tables at both the Starcitygames open series results, and stuff from TheCouncil that we all know and love, in either case, I would be extremely thorough and I know I could do an awesome primer for this deck, so if you like what I've done for my other primers, yell@me and let me know, now that I've basically covered all the decks I have the most experience with for the primers that were out of date, I can start a next one and at this point, it can be anything.

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Originally Posted by feline

This was a couple pages ago, I have noticed since then however, this is, obviously, still the thread being used. I have either gone insane or I'm already crazy to begin with, but I've now done 5 massive primers with tons upon tons of research for each, everything stemming from actual results that is top 16 placings, or in cases of fringe decks with fewer success, top 32 placings at the top tables at both the Starcitygames open series results, and stuff from TheCouncil that we all know and love, in either case, I would be extremely thorough and I know I could do an awesome primer for this deck, so if you like what I've done for my other primers, yell@me and let me know, now that I've basically covered all the decks I have the most experience with for the primers that were out of date, I can start a next one and at this point, it can be anything.

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Hello! I read your primer on High Tide and Pox and I have to say that it is pleasure to read! You have not forgotten anything, deepen any topic, from the selection of cards, etc. to Mu. It would be really great if you should reply for THIS deck! I sincerely hope it ;)

Then consider this a reply ^.^ It will take about a days worth of work before I'll have enough relevant to make a new thread, I don't want to make a new thread that's empty and start working on it, I usually do most of the work in a document, then when it has enough on it then I make a post and finish whatever is left.

Posting updates/progress here
-edit- 9:15 am Pacific Time. Well I need a good starting point, starting with looking up when Entomb was unbanned, because I know that was banned back when it was type 1.5 if I recall correctly. (Was on a magic hiatus from like 2008-2011) BOOM found it! September 2009 http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazin...ly/feature/56d
-edit- 10:15 am Pacific Time. Done with 2010 including the Ban of Mystical tutor, now 2011 & Mental Misstep, this deck has survived alot.
-edit- 11:15 am Pacific Time. Mid way through 2012 lists.

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Originally Posted by feline

Then consider this a reply ^.^ It will take about a days worth of work before I'll have enough relevant to make a new thread, I don't want to make a new thread that's empty and start working on it, I usually do most of the work in a document, then when it has enough on it then I make a post and finish whatever is left.

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Thanks feline! I will be looking forward to this:)