Nice work. Any detail to your matchups?Quote:
Originally Posted by jimirynk
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Nice work. Any detail to your matchups?Quote:
Originally Posted by jimirynk
@jimirynk: well done dude. :cool: its great that you and your list have been playing great. ^^ Care to share a little report? I assume Reveillark has been MVP as usual.
Okay my tournament report! :wink:
I was playing the following list:
1 Undiscovered Paradise
1 Tarnished citadel
4 Gemstone Mine
4 City of Brass
4 Cephalid Coliseum
4 Stinkweed Imp
3 Golgari Thug
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
3 Ichorid
4 Narcomoeba
4 Putrid Imp
3 Tireless Tribe
1 Cephalid Sage
1 Flame-Kin Zealot
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Bridge from Below
3 Breakthrough
4 Careful Study
3 Dread Return
1 Darkblast
/ Side
4 Pithing Needle
4 Ancient grudge
4 Chain of Vapor
2 Ray of revelation
1 Inkwell Leviathan
Round 1: vs Ichorid :eyebrow: (/w LED)
game 1: he is just too quick for me and goes off turn 2 with led/deep analysis.
Then i make my first big mistake, i forget that he might have leyline in his board, i didnt side anything in because i forgot about those.
Game 2: he mulls to 3, i go down to 4. He goes T1 leyline, i go GG.
Round 2: vs Merfolk
Game 1: I just slow role over him, no problems here.
Game 2: I have 12 zombies on the board and an inkwell, only problem: 2 propeganda, i have only 2 more mana in my deck and 1 in play and my rays got countered. He taps my own city of brass with Reejeree and kills me. (lame).
Game 3: I kill him turn 2, 1 turn before he lands propeganda.
Round 3: vs Goblins
Game 1: Easy win, nothing to say here.
Game 2: I keep a bad hand, and get no land draws. He quickly kills me.
Game 3: Easy win, nothing to say here.
Round 4: vs Red death
Game 1: Here i make the mistake of the day, i forget to return ichorids which would have been lethal to him. Next turn he kills me with lightning bolt.
Game 2: I start, he goes layline, i chain it turn 1. His turn: he goes badlands mogg fanatic, my turn i dredge some but nothing special. His turn: swamp, dark ritual tap badlands hardcast layline, GG.
Round 5: vs Elves
Game 1: Easy win, nothing to say.
Game 2: I throw a therapy on Relic, for the rest nothing special.
This gets me to 9 points, which got me to place 11. Someone was picked randomly with 9 points to join the T8, but unfortunately it wasnt me :rolleyes: . I had fun and i go home with chrome mox, which was ok for my first tournament with the deck and my third tournament overal :cool:
Hope it can help ya out :wink: , feel free to ask questions
~Maarten
@maarten: Your maindeck only has 59 cards according to my count, what your 60th card? @@
You would've been in the top 8 if you won against red death, am I right?
Well, the whole list seems to be standard which is great. I got 1st in a tournament once and the same thing happened to me against an ichorid match-up.^^ Rookie mistake with the deck, I guess that occasionally happens.
How was the sideboard, especially inkwell and grudge?
Over-all congratulations on playing fairly well with the deck for the first time. :cool:
Thanks ;) I forgot the 1 darkblast MD :laugh: . Yea i would have made T8 if i won vs that red death. The inwell was great vs folks, although i could have won easily without it, the grudges nearly didnt see any play at all except vs goblins, they pretty much rocked there. So i think im keeping it like this, only thing is that i will look for a spot for reveillark. Thing that didnt really help was the darkblast, so i'll maybe find something else in that place.Quote:
Originally Posted by bum_man
~Maarten
Do you think Darkblast would've mattered more if you had two along with two thugs?Quote:
Originally Posted by 1maarten1
jimirynk just kicked-ass in a tournament with a Reveillark list in place of that random darkblast. His report will help you. ^^
Hmmm not really i think, at the times where i would use them, for example when there was a cursecatcher on the table, i would have cast my draw already, i would rather go with lark in its place i think since when he removes bridges i just go like k, but hello trolls :laugh:Quote:
Originally Posted by bum_man
I think i'll try lark for a while. And Jimirynk im looking out for your report :wink:
~Maarten
1#Reveillark
1#Cephalid Sage
3#Dread Return
4#Careful Study
1#Tarnished Citadel
1#Flame-Kin Zealot
1#Undiscovered Paradise
4#City of Brass
4#Cephalid Coliseum
4#Bridge from Below
3#Tireless Tribe
4#Putrid Imp
4#Cabal Therapy
4#Golgari Grave-Troll
4#Stinkweed Imp
3#Golgari Thug
4#Gemstone Mine
4#Narcomoeba
3#Breakthrough
3#Ichorid
// sideboard
4#Wispmare
4#Ancient Grudge
1#Inkwell Leviathan
1#Ancestors Chosen
1#Ray of Revelation
4#Pithing Needle
Quick report.
Round 1 most recent UWb landstill list(runs 2 relic main 1 in the board..)
He wins the dice roll followed by a turn 1 e.e. for 0.
My turn hand was imp,tribe, study,troll,therapy,city,coliseum,dread return.
I draw a breakthrough and smile.
Turn one city play tribe.
He goes and play land pass I dredge into w.e.
Therapy force hit 1 see wrath swords swords ee lands(one being west)
Play break through dredge return lark sac therapy name swords return a troll and a flamekin swing.
game two.
I side in 4 grudges, side out -3 breakthrough -1 lark
He mulls to six and draws 7 had to mulligan to 5.=D
He draws 5 and smiles and go's relic first turn.
I play turn 1 study discard a ggt pass.
My turn I dredge the ggt and see a grudge, I play imp therapy him from flashback name force hit 1 and see a wrath and a wish in his hand.
kill relic he blows it up.
Pass he makes a land drop.
I study into a tribe/coliseum, Play both pass he drops e.e.
My turn explode grudge his e.e. win with a zombie horde.
Round two(I win dice roll)
Same deck but with vindicate over the relic(MD)
Game one was a blow out with breakthrough off another topdeck,
turn 3 kill he reveals his hand with humility and wrath.
Game 2 was epic.
I side the same was as last MU.
He drops turn one relic.
I therapy force first turn hit 2.
his turn pass.
my turn imp, study dredge see a grudge and we both laugh his turn he vindicated my land(we both agreed that needle or ee here would have got nuked..)
my turn kill his relic at upkeep discard ggt dredge into 2 narcos. I make a land drop and pass.
Slow rolled him to 7. Therapy naming force b4 a DR Fkz for the win he had a counterspell..
He rips relic I'm left with 3 zombies and 2 narcos to his 1 factory.
I swing he make 4 soldiers kills one of my zombies and blocks the other 2.
goes to 5.
Pass he brainstorms for wrath and vindicates a zombie.
My turn swing with 2 narcos put him to 3. play stinkweed imp and pass.
He storms and plays humility.
I swing with 4 1/1's with to his 1 2/2. GG.
round 3 vs aggro loam(I win dice roll)
Imp turn 1 pass.
He chalices for 1 I lol.
My turn dredge into a narco, pass.
He drops goyf.
My turn return a ichorid dredge return sage win.
Game 2 I side in 4 wispmare side out -3 breakthrough -1 fKz
He mulls to 6 starts with leyline, land, mox diamond, chalice for 1 and passes with one card in hand.
I go turn 1 wispmare pass.
He draws and cylces and passes.
My turn draw pass, we do this for like 4 turns each.
0 I discard a SWIx3, see narcos and ichorids.
He drops a Crusher followed by a goyf, its not enough.
It was only 3 rounds.
I came in first.
Meta was gobs,aggroloam,landstill,ugr moon thresh, and a mono black deck with withered wretch MD, and 2 red decks(?).
Mvp of the day, Grudge. Followed by top decking breakthroughs.=P
Questions?
I'm trying out versions of Ichorid as well. Perhaps the following can help a little: I'm going to try to calculate estimates of mulligan rates comparing this version to the LED version. I seem to mull much more with the LED version, although I'm not entirely sure why exactly. For starters, here are the chances of drawing a certain number of land in your opening hand.
14 Land:
Land in hand:
0 = 13.8%
1 = 33.9%
2 = 32.2%
3 = 15.3%
4 = 3.9%
15 land:
0 = 11.7%
1 = 31.6%
2 = 33.2%
3 = 17.5%
4 = 5,0%
I think we can say that practically every hand without land is a mulligan. The difference between 14 and 15 land decreases the chance 2%. On the other hand, hands with 3 land are 2% more common. As far as I know, these hands can be very keepable, but not always. Of course, the more land you draw, the less buisness you get.
I'll try to calculate with what amount of land we have the biggest chance of drawing either 1 or 2 land in the opening hand.
EDIT: Got that done. The optimum is actually on 12 land, with a 67.3% chance. 14 and 15 are both only off a few percentage though. I have no idea if this is going to be helpful, but we'll see...
LED mulligans more often not just due to the low land count, but it suffers from a lack of turn 1 discard/draw effects. Non-led runs 6-7 permanent discard effects. And 4 careful study as a norm. I personally run 12 dredgers, so my percentages of having one in combination with an outlet in my opening grip is fair. I personally am very satisfied with my maindeck, my SB however is under constant scrutiny by myself, Ichorid should win G1 regardless unless your opponent maindecks hate or you underestimate their deck and overextend your resources. Games 2 and 3 are the real reason to run non-led IMO. We have better SB options since we run more land and can play the slow ichorid beat game much better than lists running LED. I know non-led lists have not put up the tournament results that LED lists have, but that time is coming soon my friends, it is coming soon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bahamuth
@Jimirynk- Mind posting your list for reference on this page(maybe just paste it into your report)
I posted my list above.
I also have info that people might not know that I find useful.
Out of 40 hand the amount of keep able hands looked like this.
7 card hands=25keep able/15 not
6 card hands=22keep able/18 not
5 card hands=16keep able/24 not
4 card hands=9keep able/31 not
3 card hands=9keep able/31 not
The 3 and 4 card hands I was very flexible with what I considered a keep able hand.
So what I realize is 6-7 card hands seem to be as consistant so don't be afraid to mull to 6.
5 card hands are iffy but Its a little less than 50-50 chance of keep able.
3/4 card hands are never keepable avoid at all cost lol.
That is all.
you should try out standstill in the breakthrough slot..... it is bananas...
Stfu you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Phthisisity
Since i read Parchers new primer im testing some new changes and they are all acting really well to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by 1maarten1
I play a Lark instead of the blast MD.
Side i play this now:
4 greater gargadon
4 chain of vapor
2 firestorm
2 ancient grudge
2 wispmare
1 ancestors chosen
Any questions/suggestions??
~Maarten
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1maarten1
Where?
Here: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=13767Quote:
Originally Posted by jimirynk
And it rocks! :laugh:
I've tested my list (posted a few posts ago) extensively earlier and it showed mixed results.
:. With 2 breakthrough and 12 dredgers this deck has great game against any blue deck.
:. Reveillark has impressed alot. Its playing better than the Lakers. Like jimirynk said, it wins games that are otherwise iffy. Its a really great addition and given enough resources in the graveyard, its arguably MVP.
:. Maybe it was just my luck, i played grudges against affinity earlier, and it seems marginal. After having my gy removed i lost before i was able to recover, he was able to take out my only 2 returns in the deck, post-board,
I maybe ditching this list and going back to my old list that is similar to jimirynk's except id play blasts over thugs (still testing if playing one over the other is significantly relevant especially with the addition of Reveillark). This list was the most consistent list I've played so far and it has the least tendency to dredge like sh*t.
@jimirynk: how do you usually board-out your return targets are there times where taking out sage is better than lark or vice versa? I've taken sage almost always in testing earlier and I assume you also do.
This is all just quick outputs from the testing I did earlier. Questions?
So I've been working off the last list I posted (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...postcount=301), and I'm trying Eternal Witness over Cephalid Sage. The sideboard has changed a bit. Most notably, no Null Rods. It's definitely not a bad choice and I'd consider playing it, but testing has shown that Ancient Grudge serves a similar role. The fact that it's an instant is awesome.
This is what I've been trying:
4 Ancient Grudge
4 Pithing Needle
3 Firestorm
2 Wispmare
1 Inkwell Leviathan
1 Ancestor's Chosen
Here's how I've been boarding - is this right?
U/x aggro-control/control - varied artifact based graveyard hate (Relic, Crypt, EE):
-1 FKZ
-1 Witness/Sage
-1 DR
-3 Breakthrough
-1 Careful Study/Tireless Tribe (not sure which is better)
-1 Golgari Thug
+4 Ancient Grudge
+3 Pithing Needle
+1 Inkwell Leviathan
Merfolk/Goblins - single artifact based graveyard hate, sacrifice effects (Relic, Mogg Fanatic/Cursecatcher):
-1 FKZ
-1 DR
-3 Breakthrough
-1 Ichorid
-1 Putrid Imp
-1 Golgari Thug
+4 Pithing Needle
+3 Firestorm
+1 Inkwell Leviathan (Merfolk)/Ancestor's Chosen (Goblins)
Zoo/Goyf Sligh - single artifact based graveyard/creature hate (Crypt, Jitte)
-1 FKZ
-1 Witness/Sage
-1 DR
-3 Breakthrough
-1 Ichorid
-1 Golgari Thug
+1 Ancestor's Chosen
+4 Ancient Grudge
+3 Pithing Needle
B/x Aggro - enchantment based graveyard/creature hate, artifact based graveyard hate (Engineered Plague, Leyline, Crypt/Relic)
-1 FKZ
-1 Witness/Sage
-1 DR
-3 Breakthrough
-1 Careful Study
-1 Golgari Thug
-1 Ichorid/Tireless Tribe (unsure on this slot)
+2 Wispmare
+4 Ancient Grudge
+3 Pithing Needle
Combo:
-1 Ichorid
+1 Ancestor's Chosen (:frown:)
What have other people tried?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bum_man
Sage always come Sage is bad vs. decks that remove your bridges.
Whats the point to DR sage when all your bridges get rfg in response to anything you do.
For example goyfsligh -3 breakthrough -1 sage +4 Ancient grudges ( on the play)
On the draw side out Fkz for chosen due to them being able to race you.
@Jaynel: I know we pretty much play in the same metagame, but are you comfortable only having 2 wispmares as answers to leyline? Against deck I would fear seeing it come in I like having 4 or more answers available to it. Most likely they are going to try to mulligan into it, but having jsut 2 answers would scare the crap out of me