[Deck] Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)

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Originally Posted by BackDr0p

Null Rod seems to be a good SB option. If it works for Vintage, why not Legacy?

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Because Legacy doesn't have Mox, Mox, Mox, Mox, Mox, Lotus, Sol Ring, Mana Crypt, Metalworker, Vault-Key, Triskelion, Karn, Ravager in every second deck you face.
You have to notice that Null Rod's role in Vintage is to cut down the opponents resources, while it just doesn't do anything useful in Legacy. In every case, Pithing Needle is superior to Null Rod.

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But I have to say that although the rod nullifies (pun intended) the most troublesome artefacts in the format, it lacks the versatility of Pithing Needle which is able to hit: Survival of the Fittest, Elspeth and Man Lands in particular. Other than that, it is worth testing in my opinion.

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Well, every single target you mentioned are - along with many more - each one more reason to play Needle over Null Rod. Plus, Pithing Needle is less clunky.

The only deck that gets assraped by Null Rod is Affinity (because it's the only deck which gets it's resources shut down by Null Rod obv.). And Affinity is not competitive anyway and I believe the M10 rulings brought the coup de grace to it. I won't say that Affinity isn't played, no, I also got lucked away by it 1 or 2 times, but this single deck shouldn't be a reason to play a card that is quite narrow in Legacy.

I just see that Null Rod might have a justification in the non-LED Dredges because it shuts down the 2 problem-artifacts at once (Relic and Crypt), ensuring that you don't get pwned by Murphy's Law (seriously, use Needle naming Relic and you will lose to Crypt, name Crypt and you will lose to Relic. I'm one of these unlucky guys).

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Originally Posted by Adan

Because Legacy doesn't have Mox, Mox, Mox, Mox, Mox, Lotus, Sol Ring, Mana Crypt, Metalworker, Vault-Key, Triskelion, Karn, Ravager in every second deck you face.

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True. Although, our format is less reliant on artefacts there is no real need to completely discard Null Rod as a SB option, even though it is suboptimal in UGR Tempo.

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Originally Posted by Adan

In every case, Pithing Needle is superior to Null Rod.

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Are you high?
They both shine in their own matchups.
Vs. countertop it shuts off their top/and e.e. which are their best cards vs. you in their deck. It also shuts off shackles which if resolves makes you only able to win with mongoose.

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Originally Posted by Adan

In every case, Pithing Needle is superior to Null Rod.

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That is simply not true. Not at all. there are situations where both shine. Vs a CB opponent with SDT, Vedalken Shackles, and EE the Rod is going to be better. Vs Merfolk with Aether Vial and Relic of Progenitus same thing. While Pithing Needle is more flexible, it also only answers one problem at a time.

In a meta (like mine) that is full of CB and tribal decks, with a few Mox Diamond decks filling out the margins I think Rod can play a role, especially because I have not seen a single planeswalker or Survival yet. I have been running a Needle in my board and never named a non artifact card with it.

Oh my Goodness, like if Needle could not shut down SDT and Shackles and like you could not just stifle a EE...

And as if EE and Mox Diamonds are the most annoying cards of Aggroloam you want to shut down and not Seismic Assault and Wasteland...
And Academy Ruins which actually make EE a pesky card and Pernicious Deed...

Name some definite matchups! Each matchup you named have only 2 cards to shut down. Needle are enough for that purpose and are even more flexible in the whole random field of Legacy as it can shut down a variety of other annoying non-artifact cards you don't want to have against you: Survival, Elspeth, Decree, Mishra's Factory, Nantuko Monastery, Pernicious Deed, Wastelands, Imperious Perfect, Gempalm Incinerator, Academy Ruins, Volrath's Stronghold, Knight of the Reliquary...

Plus, I would never board in Null Rod against Counterbalance Threshold for example, or Null Rod against Merfolk.

Against some cards, Needles are just some additional outs. But I absolutely see no justification to run Null Rod. The only matchup where it shines is Affinity and maybe some ANT variants/Belcher against which we already have a very good matchup thanks to the huge amount of countermagic and disruption. BEBs or Disrupts are also good.

Whatever, I'm out, I'll tune in later when all these brainfarts have dissolved.

I'm not saying play null rod, but it is definite a relevant sb option for this deck.

example g2 vs brass man.
bad match up.

They have 2 crypt, 1 relic, 1 e.e.,4 top,2 shackle.
Thats 10 cards that you stop with 1 card.
The best part about rod is Counter top sides out there artifact hate.

I can agree that needle can answer non artifacts and null rod so if wanted it can be a 2/2 split.

Their is no correct sideboard for this deck, it is all meta/personal preference.
Do it or don't do it, but don't sit their shit on people explaining the pro's of a viable sb option.

The source is about improving the legacy format/decks, brainstorming and followed by testing is the proper way to do this, not just saying an idea is stupid.

I agree that null rod is awfully narrow. Pithing needle is way stronger.
Unless your entire metagame is affinity, then you play Null rod... 4 of.. main.

I don't run them at the moment but like merolk runs 4via/4relic that all need to be dealt with that can be stopped by one card.
Plus they are not going to side in hate vs it game 2.

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Originally Posted by sauce

I agree that null rod is awfully narrow. Pithing needle is way stronger.
Unless your entire metagame is affinity, then you play Null rod... 4 of.. main.

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That's not really true. I'd say they're on the same power level at least. Null Rod is generally better against combo and CounterTop.

I play zoo, and a boarding strategy that has worked very well against tempo thresh was to take out my tarmogoyfs, and bring in 4 relics. It slows my clock down a turn, maybe, but with 4 relics 3 lavamancers, I can almost always make goyfs tiny and keep you off threshold.

I usually don't pop a relic until I've drawn another one or I've gotten the opponent down to lightning bolt range, and the cantrip will help end the game.

I agree that Null Rod is worth testing.
Maybe 60% of the games I lost so far were due to Relic, and Null Rod also helps in the combo/CB-top/control MU if needed.
Ive played P.needle for some while and mostly used it on artifacts anyway,mainly Relic-EE-shackles.

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Originally Posted by jimirynk

I don't run them at the moment but like merolk runs 4via/4relic that all need to be dealt with that can be stopped by one card.
Plus they are not going to side in hate vs it game 2.

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Null Rod's probably going to be worse against Merfolk, as they have moved towards running spell snare, and pithing needle at least dodges that. Null Rod is an extra mana, which both puts it at 2 and makes it a more likely daze target. Could work, and does shut down more. But makes their hate more relevant against you.

And PS, the most relics I've ever seen in a Merfolk deck is 3. Sometimes only in the board, which means you're playing a guessing game game 2 with Null Rod.

Does anyone know the approximate odds of beating the following decks with Temp Thresh;?

Enchantress
Pox-mono B
Stax-w

I have a tournament coming up this weekend and it's full of rogue decks like these and I think Tempo Thresh would have a good match-up with these decks with a very customized SB.

I know that Tempo Thresh is a deck you have to play flawlessly to make it profitable, but are there any versions that have been successful with a couple more creatures without sacrificing consistancy? Thanks for any help,

Sage

The three decks there are almost auto losses for canadian thresh. The fact is, too much of your disruption is dead. I don't think there is a deck in existence that is a worse match up than mono black pox.

You named Pox and Enchantress : You might want to play Trygon Predator Maindeck

You named Pox : You might want to burn them out :)

good luck

Robert

people who play suiblack/pox type decks in legacy are the same kinds of people that play burn in type2...
the decks are good enough to crush good decks, but in the end they never win.

it really makes me question the purpose of their existence, both people and the decks :)

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Originally Posted by sauce

people who play suiblack/pox type decks in legacy are the same kinds of people that play burn in type2...
the decks are good enough to crush good decks, but in the end they never win.

it really makes me question the purpose of their existence, both people and the decks :)

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To be a pain in the ass?

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Originally Posted by tivadar

And PS, the most relics I've ever seen in a Merfolk deck is 3. Sometimes only in the board, which means you're playing a guessing game game 2 with Null Rod.

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Most merfolk run 4 relics split between the MD and board, and null rod is never a dead card to play vers. folk. If you side in needle and name relic then your playing a guessing game.

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Originally Posted by Sage

Does anyone know the approximate odds of beating the following decks with Temp Thresh;?

Enchantress

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I've tested against Enchantress extensively (my teammate plays it) and its a pretty strong match up pre-board. Spell Snare, Daze, and Ice are all great. Post-board they bring in like a bazillion bombs (Choke, City of Solitude, additional Replenish's, or even Blood Moon), but you can bring in EE, which they probably won't expect and as such will side out Karmic Justice. In this matchup, you can't keep a hand with heavy beats or no beats, ideally you need to land a goyf, counter enchantresses, and hope they don't draw replenish, or moat.

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Originally Posted by Omega

You named Pox and Enchantress : You might want to play Trygon Predator Maindeck

You named Pox : You might want to burn them out :)

good luck

Robert

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Well, exactly, these 3 are matchups which you have to tempogame a lot which makes them difficult.

Stax: Pretty much a cakewalk if you have Trygons in your 75 and can actually resolve one. Butin any case, the important thing is to resolve a creature and keep Ghostly Prisons or Angels off the table. Against Magus you can still ram your creatures into it and burn it.
They usually can't do much against resolved creatures except for Magus-Armageddon. But I guess the build is a bit out-dated, I don't know how it is to play against the Dutch Stax variants with Humility, Moat and Elsbitch.
I could imagine that one to be a very very frustating matchup.

Pox: Shouldn't be too hard, they don't doo much against Nimble Mongoose especially when they have a white splash for StoPs and Vindicates.
You can tempogame very well:

Stifles hit Wasteland, Spell Snare hits like everything, Sinkhole, Smallpox and Edicts maybe, Daze can theoretically hit everything as well, but they will always hardcounter SInkholes...

You can do a bunch of 1 for 1 trades which generate a huge speedadvantage. Burn for reach is also nice as you can still topdeck-win if he should dispose your creatures somehow. Tombstalkers or other creatures he might play can be Iced or bounced.

Enchantress:

That's a tough matchup, a bad timed Replenish is gg, overall it has got a very high threat density and their resources are very hard to attack.
I really wouldn't be happy to face Enchantress. But as long as they don't play Runed Halo on your Burnspells or resolve a Confinement, try to cantrip into as much Burnspells as you can.