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Burn is mentioned under Zoo. Rock you follow the Eva Green list until you see Jailer, and change accordingly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adan
I forgot Thrash; it's something like:
G2:-2 Hypno, -3 LED, -2 DA
+3 Grudge, +2 Tribe, +1 Chosen, +1 City
G3: -2 LED, -2 DA
+2 Tribe, +1 City, +1 Unmask
You always want the Tribes since they can't remove them, and you always want Unmask since even if they don't have hate, you can nab one of their eight creatures.
Well you can add another to the list of possible hate cards to deal with
Ravenous Trap
2bb
Instant - Trap - uncommon
If an opponent had three or more cards put into his or her graveyard from anywhere this turn, you may pay 0 rather than pay Ravenous Trap's mana cost.
Exile all cards from target player's graveyard.
Yeah when I saw that I died a little inside....good god that is really effective against us unless we cabal therapy it away -or- unmask it. But god the worst problem is that we don't know if they have it unless we use one of those 2 cards and with cabal therapy it's always a guessing game which I hate sometimes.
Good work on the boarding strategies Parcher you're awesome.
Good work wizards on making Countertop decks EVEN better!Quote:
Originally Posted by Stall_19
Now I can just hold my trap on the top 3 cards and draw it with SDT whenever I need it? Don't even get me started on Brainstorm.
This just feels like a piece of hate that didn't need to be printed. This deck is far from overpowered and there are bigger problems in Legacy then Ichorid ocassionally winning on turn 1.
QFT!Quote:
Originally Posted by alderon666
-Chris-
Just like mindbreak trap, I foresee this being too narrow to have in sideboards, as while it absolutely wrecks ichorid, it doesn't too anything against threshold, rock, geddon stacks, ect where relic is at least slightly effective. Not cantripping also is a deterant to play this in a sideboard unless the player suspects at least 25% of the field to be ichorid. I'm not too worried about it. Sure, we may lose a game or two to an trap in the same manner that a storm deck may not foresee the mindbreak trap coming from an aggro deck game two, but we can slow roll via icorid and 1-2 bridges to 'play around' it game three, and most likely with such a narrow sideboard choice, the trap players won't ever make it to the top tables to worry about.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stall_19
Depressing, although this pretty much means that there will be more reliance on Unmask now, which is okay. Ugh.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Ritual
landstill could possibly play this as a cunning wish target, but other then that,i agree with it being very narrow, but it may be ok against aggro loam too
Well all Ichorid player everywhere are hoping you're right because this could be the worst hate against you yet in that everything else you will see coming and have a chance to do something about it, whether with pithing needle or chain of vapor but against this you will need unmask or therapy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Media314r8
Unfortunately, I was waiting for this. Funny how the "Fuck Storm", and "Fuck Ichorid" cards are back-breaking, but the "Fuck Countermagic" one gives you a Deranged Hermit without the Crusade effect.
I think alderon has it nailed. This card is worse than Crypt or Relic in any deck that either doesn't run Black, or runs it instead of other options. You basically play against it the same way as if you are playing Grudge or Chain against a Crypt; clear the path and go off.
However, unlike Crypt, this can be played at instant speed. Which allows decks with Brainstorm and/or Top a nasty surprise for us. This isn't so much of a concern since not only do they have to get the card in a relevant time frame, but those decks typically lose to Ichorid no matter what they do.
It is also obviously weaker against non-Ichorid graveyard based decks, and does not have the utility as a sideboard slot that Relic or even Crypt has. I see it being used in CounterTop for certain, since they really need the help, can CB-lock Loam decks, and can hide it from discard. Any other deck likely won't waste the narrow slots, or will run Leyline.
*sigh* and I just starting testing Dredge and got all the cards together. Ha! Annoying. For Storm Decks the degree of fuckage is probably lesser because Silnce/Chant effectively prevents running into the Trap if played early plus Storm Decks have the potential to use PoN. Dredge just can hope for the Discard. I am also wondering why the Storm hoser is rare and the Ichorid Hoser is Uncommon. Probably it just doesnt mean anything but anyway ...Quote:
Originally Posted by Parcher
On a second thought this isn't going to be played in every deck just on Countertop decks, since their match against us was pretty bad. They don't need Relic because they play Goyf, and Tormod's Crypt is almost always worse that the new Trap against any grave combo deck. It's kinda bad against recursion like survival and the likes, but it might be worth the sacrifice... or even a split.
What makes me pissed is that I play in a underdeveloped meta, and every noob that loses to Dredge says "Doesn't that deck just folds to Tormod's Crypt, I'm going to play 5 an pwn joo!"... so obviously everyone and their grandma is going to play this card.
The thing is, if you play slowly and cast a discard spell on a turn where you didn't dump 3 card this can be worse in nonblue deck. But I predict getting pwned by Brainstorm/SDT getting trap of the top.
The printing of that new trap is a little annoying, though it is supposed to be an uncommon. I doubt WotC would print something like that at uncommon just to hose Vintage and Legacy. There may be some more interesting graveyard shenanigans coming up...
As for the trap itself, Ichorid does not really have the popularity to warrant running a card like that in the SB unless your meta is infested or your deck just can't beat it otherwise. The fact that it is an instant versus something like Crypt is probably more of a detriment than anything else. Hate against us is generally harder to deal with on the board than in the hand. We have much more control over when (or if) they would use this trap as opposed to Crypt.
Fixed that for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Parcher
The card is way too narrow to show up in any decent decklists. Maybe some decks with awful Ichorid matchups run it in Ichorid infested metagames, but Crypt and Relic have so much more general utility while still being a house against Ichorid that I don't see this trap being anything more than a "flavor of the month" card choice.
QFMFTQuote:
Originally Posted by Media314r8
Calm down people.
I aint afraid of this card. Ichorid doesnt warrant a slot in SB nowadays. I just played in a tournament of 20 players last Sunday with lots of Rock and Countertops and believe me,,, they were that surprised that there were Ichorid decks (including me) at that time because their SB didnt contain any Relics of Crypts... I went 3-2, the other Ichorid went on to win the tournament. He has something like 4 Firestorm in his SB I had none. I dont think that was the difference though.
Still, id play the deck anytime I feel like playing it! :tongue:
Parcher, can you explain your sideboard choices at the Charlotte 5K to, say, the one on the first page? I'm really curious as to Ancient Grudge and Tireless Tribe over Wispmare and Greater Gargadon.
I think that with Ravenous Trap coming up to enlarge greaveyard hate, Parcher's idea to play through it with Greater Gargadon shines even more.
Ravenous trap just looks worse than every other form of hate against us. On top of that, it's dead against pretty much every other deck while most other graveyard hate is actually relevant in more common matchups. I wouldn't worry too much about Ravenous trap just yet. Ironically the only decks that can really abuse the trap to fight Ichorid are those packing Top, which we generally hose anyway.
I hope you are right, because I thought Ichorid was doomed.
Hose="crush"?
Leyline has effectively dissapeared, so I don't see any point in running Wispmare at the moment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hashinator89
Gargadon was added in a field full of CounterTop and Landstill/Board Control, which he wrecked. Now the field is Zoo and Merfolk, with CounterTop running third. Tribe+Grudge gives you time to either find an answer to their hate, or force them to use it in defense.
The addition of Hypnotist has proven enough against Control and Combo that I don't really sideboard much for them.