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Hi there everyone !!!
Really quick question! I'd llike some answers as soon as you can, thanks !!!
Has anyone tested a 2/2 split of 2 Tormod's Crypt and 2 Ground Seal against Ichorid.
Since almost no one is expecting Ground Seal from anyone who isn't playing Enchantress, or even 4x Ground Seal
Thanks a lot, and just one more think. Has anyone tested it ?? I mean it draws you a card, like Relic, but it stays in the game.
I didn't follow, that doesn't seems to hate Ichorid as Tormods or Relics do... maybe I'm missing something, but ichorid can still come back, can't it? Golgari will come back too, and bridges will be on the grave, the combo will flow...Quote:
Originally Posted by NihilObstat
I just side-in tormods against Ichorid, and if I need and have the chance, I berserk some guy to get the bridge out of the grave... well... I haven't tested much against Ichorid though...
It's not the same hate, but it gives you an extra turn if they were planning in resurecting their Berserker and it saves you the game if they were going to play Iona. And Golgari, I have only seen Dredge play him with Return in desesperate situations.
Dunno, but maybe you are right. Thx a lot for the berserking a guy to remove the enchantment tip, hehe, I never think of fun stuff like that ^^
What do you guys think about Mindbreak Trap as a Sideboard Card (3x-4x) against ANT/TES?
Especially the fact that Berserk Stompy has a Turn 3 clock (or at least can beat the Tendrils opponent down to Ad Nauseam- hindering lifescore) makes it look pretty good in my eyes.
-they definitely will not see it coming game 2
-It's for free, so it doesn't affect our speed
-To handle it, they either need a Duress (which would eat our berserk otherwise) or one additional white mana source for chanting during their combo turn (which isn't that easy to accomplish for them in the first three turns)
Combined with Crypts against their IGG recursion, the matchup might not be that bad anymore.
I'm not playing ANT, but IF I did, I'd always anticipate Mindbreak Traps - from anyone.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterC
That's because I do play them myself and as I've only played aggro so far, no matter which deck (well, except for Dragon Stompy)
So play them, but don't count on the ANT-Player to be surprised.
I doubt that there are many decks besides Berserk Stompy which would profit from playing Mindbreak Trap.
Bluebased Aggrocontrol has access to more versatile and less situational hate (Force, Daze, Stifle)
Chalice Aggro has Chalice and Trini and needs it's Sideboard to improve other critical matchups
Loam can't apply enough pressure, so that the ANT player can dig for chants or duresses
Ichorid needs its Sideboard for different issues
The only decks I see that can profit from Mindbreak Trap are BS, Zoo and maybe Goblins and Elves.
That would be true if it wasn't for the fact that you will only use it game two, and they know that you don't have much other options. This combined to the fact that their answer for it is the same as for the other hates.... But mindbreak trap seems our best option anyways.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterC
Well guys, I guess the Results on GP-Madrid is bad news for us: Not only ANT made 2 top8's, but also reanimator made it to the top... Reanimator is a hell against us, they find a Big Guy the solves everything to them and we don't have a way to deal with them, besides maybe a berserk-rush before their entomb-exhume-reanimate hits, which will not happen that often... Besides that, Zoo is still strong and we need to get something effective against them...
Hi there!!! It's me again. I'll tell you a little about my own experience in GP Madrid with Stompy !!!
*I've put in italics what I believe people could just read over, if they don't want the whole thing
So first of all, I have to say that it was my first GP and I was a bit nervous.
My results were 3wins - 4 loses but read a bit plz if you want.
1st game - against Monoblack deck
I go first: Forest - Nettle, he says Oh elves!! He goes swamp/lotus petal and Bitterblossom. Next turn, City of Traitors, tap and tap swamp to play CONTAMINATION! I scoop.
Side in 3 Reverent Silence 1 Gleeful, I win easy the two next games, break through everything with destroy enchant effects.
Main deck Viridian Zealots win me the game.
2nd game - Dark Depths.
A guy who wears "cool" black glasses, says he's gonna win before starting, and has a friend by his side all the time, and pointlessly says that french people are gay. He goes first, 2nd or 3rd turn Depths kill me.
I side in Vexings, Reverent, Gleeful. I keep a hand with 2 Kavu 2 Invigorate 1 Berserk 1 Forest 1 Nettle, only one land, but an awesome hand. Well, I didn't draw land in 5 turns, he's down to 15, Depths come in, I hit for 23 one turn too late, he blocks, goes down to 12 and I die.
Playing G/W Berserk Stompy would have been great here, to get Swords or Path, for MonoG has nothing against Depths. I also hated loosing to this guy, the only idiot I found in the tournament, specially due to mana screw.
3rd game - Painters Deck.
I go first and fast, he keeps a hand full of stiffles which he shows me later, and are worthless. I was so happy for having gone with 16 Forests 1 Fetch, for fun, to the GP. I side in 3 Vexing 1 Gaeas Blessing and Seeds. Once again, I go fast, and 2nd turn Vexing just rocks, he plays 2 artifacts, I go Seeds, and kill him in 2 turns.
He couldn't play counterspells thx to awesome Vexing. I recommend 3 or 4 if you fear blue in your area.
4th game - EvaGreen.
The guy is fun, but I am a bit nervous I don't know why. When going to shuffle, I show the bottom card of the deck, Boggle, which he doesn't recognize, but then I accidentally drop a Berserk. Yeah, hurray! He looks at his hand, and mulligans to get some more Destroy effects. He kills many creatures but I get him down to 7, but Tombstalker is game for him.
I side in 2 Tormod's 2 Relics, draw a hand with 1 Tormods 1 Relic, and nice hand so it's sweet. I control the game so I'm excited, I play Kavu turn 2, he's at 19, I attack with Berserked Kavu for 16, and at the same moment I cast Berserk, I go ĄSHIT! He's gonna die now. I didn't think about it because 99% of the times I had resolved Berserk it was game over. So he's at 3 life. He takes control of the board with Tarmos, and although his graveyard is clean, he taps 8 lands, and plays Tombstalker from the hand. I am really ashamed of myself here, but not afraid to admit it.
5th game - AggroLoam
The guys recognizes the deck 1st turn, and says he plays it too. But that's fine so far, thx to my hand, I kill him turn three.
I side Tormods and Relic. A rancored Skarrgan and a Nettle get him down to 1 life, then Devastating Dreams destroy me, and I can't recover in time. I die. Next game, it's pretty much the same, he tutors Devastating Dreams, I get him down to 4 life, then Devastating ruins my mana, my critters and my day, since he is the 3rd guy I loose to, and that means I'm out.
I need some advice here, for future matches, what is your strategy against this kind of decks. Maybe it's just speed, because I'm so sad that I left him at 1 and 4 life, I could have probably scratched at least that 1 life somehow.
6th game - Pro Bant Progenitus
I get a game loss, because I'm late to the seat.
Then I take the deck out, and maybe he sees something because he asks me if we can side in. I say yes, but he is a nice guy and doesn't. Rox War monks and don't know what else get him up to 28, but I get him back down before progenitus hits the floor.
He starts the 3rd game, with a sided turn 2 Ethersworm canonist, and I go turn 2 Vexing susher, so we are tied at annoying sideboard ^^
He goes Path to exile to my Susher, but also has to block with canonist after some single drop turns thx to her, and sacrifice her, I use twice Seeds in this match, which are great killing Top and others not letting him get to Natural Order. I kill him afterwards. Fun match, and I end up winning even with a GL.
7th game - Dredge
He wins the first game kick enough. I side in 2 Tormods 2 Relic, they don't come up, I go mulligan to get them but nothing. Luckily I don't need them, after a race, and a well played game I win thx to topdeck. He had casted Cabal Therapy to discard me a Berserk and another pumper, a couple turns before, and now I had only a 2/2 Skarrgan, and a new Berserk in hand, he had 10 Zombies, 2 Narcomebas luckyly no dread return in graveyard. He's at 12 life, and I tell him it all depends in what I draw now. I draw Vines of Vastwood !!! :) I know the guy, and I tell him: I win this one. I go Vines and Berserk, on Skargan and swing, he's 12/6. He looks at me like :S :S and blocks with some zombies, and I say you can't block, he goes :S again, and reads Skarrgan. So he's at 0 life. I love that little guy so much ^^
Third game I also don't get any of the sideboard, not even after mulligan, so I keep a nice 6 card hand, he goes down to 7 pretty kick, but it isn't enough. I loose.
The 2229 assistants tournament had started 3 hours late, and I was really tired after that so I left. I saw 3 more Berserks like mine that day. One almost like mine, although without Viridian main, and plus Lions. Another with Bounty and ESG, did a little worse, and there was also the False Cure one around, which did around that too. I heard there was one that did well, but I've checked day 2 lists and I couldn't find any.
The tournament was great, and I know that if it hadn't been my first big tournament, I would have done better, so I'm really happy with the deck. I am really mad that I lost games leaving the opponent at 7, 3, 1, 4, 7 life, specially against Loam.
I am really happy with my choice of Sideboard, I used it every game. What I used was the following: 3 Vexing Susher 3 Reverent Silence 3 Seeds of Innoncence 2 Tormods 2 Relics 1 Gaea's Blessing 1 Gleeful Sabotage 3 main deck Viridian Zealot, great choice for me
I couldn't fit Mindbreak Traps, and I would have liked to, although looking at my pairings they would have been wasted spots.
Well, sad that you got those losses against depts... Last time I saw depths (when it shown up first time, probably), I still had Wastelands (I'm always retrying to run wastelands since it's randomly good enough against a lot of decks...) and those won me the games... See, I'm serious when I say that Wastelands wins random games! xD
Everyone misses sometimes due to nervosism, specially GP I guess, although the most important thing when playing this deck is doing the Life total math correctly! xD EvaGreen isn't suposed to be a badmatch, they are slower beatdown then us, their removal cost them life... As a Tip, they tend to defend with their Tombstalker/goyf when it's untaped, so use it to pump-kill him.
Well, Speed is crutial against aggro-loam, although maybe you could hold some cards in hand against his devastating, but it depends on the match... get in mind that 1 life is the difference between growth and krosa, and also between vastwood and seal, an bogle vs. nettle/elite or even skarrgan vs. bloodthisrt'd skarrgan... It's the hard part of optimizing deck damage... But it could only be bad luck too.
Seeds killing top is so wierd! Think i'll never get the chance... a normal player would activate it. Actually the hole description of this match is wierd, how did you prevent him from playing natural order? Well, the good thing is that you won! =)
Best skills on this deck are predicting and math skills. Mostly because you have to predict which strategy brings more damage to the board, which strategy will be less probable to fail, what could be their answers to your plays... I won games by avoiding Dazes, Wraths and E.E. with simple waiting. Sometimes playing another creature makes no difference in the amount of turns you will win, but can be your misery against a powder keg. Sometimes, playing a 1cc and a 2cc to avoid EE and Keg works too. Those are simple things that we can improve and make the difference quite ofetn... Even knowing that "my chances on drawing a pump and win with this strategy are ...%" can make the difference ^^'
You are right, it is quite weird. I hadn't tested much against Divining Top decks, and already being in the tournament against the Painters deck I remember myself thinking, well now I kill top with this, but then, wait I can't.
I ended up destroy top in response to they activating the ability once or twice. I remember asking a judge how would it work, and he said he draws the card, because the ability triggers, but since you have destroyed it there is no Top to put on top of the library. I think that's what I did, in response to they drawing with top.
And I am sorry if the description is weird, but I'm not a native english speaker and my english is quite out of practice :P
I played bad against Depths and Eva. I should have probably done a mulligan, but 2 Kavu 2 Invigorate 1 Berserk is way Too tempting, hehe.
And against Eva, I should have waited one more turn, to get an extra land down, and completely killed him.
Nice report.
I'm a bit suspicious if its the right strategy to bring in GY hate against Aggro Loam.
Because when he gets to use loam, you should have lost or won already.
There aren't too much things that an Aggro Loam Player can do against Berserk Stompy, especially Bogle and Ledgewalker.
I would try to drop no more than one creature and two lands. Then try to kill him with two strikes. If he DD's, you can still come back with an evasive creature + rancor and finish him off.
He doesn't have the clock to race you without massive devastating dreams rape.
I think Loam Decks (Lands as well) should be our best Matchups.
Agreed on all points. I would not bring in GY hate. Also worth mentioning that pump in response to DD can be a blowout.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterC
Yep, indeed pump is a nice response to DD too..Quote:
Originally Posted by Otter
But I'd bring my 3 tormods against loam anyway, it may delay their big guy chances, and I think some control decks are better matchups than lands/loam, specially those with lots of creature hates, and those with Chalices
I'm not getting the best results with ESG. I'll be cutting it to 3 and increasing the creature count, and playing only 18 pumps to see how it goes, but so far, it's benefits hardly are better then running standard 17 Forests maindeck... Going to 15 Forest + 3 ESG right now
Hi !!! I'm not replying to anyone in specific, because it's a thanks to everyone for advice and reading ;)
I think that GY hate is sweet, because you disrupt their main recovering effect of Life from the Loam quite a bit, and make them think twice wether to use DD when they wanted to or 1 turn later, which should be enough.
Thx for saying about keeping things in hand, I think I did anyway, but both games I didn't draw into more than 2 lands and he blew up both, both games.
I have to agree with Gui Brasil, control decks in general are far better, I'm specially getting quite confident against blue decks. STAX with Trini sucks, but that's why side is there for. Glacial Chasm on the other hand or Maze of Ith can be real problems.
Just one more think. I was seriously feeling like putting more Pumps in and taking at least 1 or 2 critters out, the problem is, which ones??? My list is the one from last page I think, except for side. Maybe this is just because I didn't get to play against Zoo or Crazy Removal decks, but against those we have 8 cards, and Vines, and against the rest, more pumps could definitely win us some games, don't you think ?
What do you guys mean by Pump in Response to DD? I just don't get it, sorry ^^
Oh, I've checked up my position I ended up 499 out of 1100, because we were divided in two, but I didn't play the last two games :P
@Gui_Brasil
...what exactly is the problem with an 15/4 configuration auf Forest/ESG...
If I'd run 15/3, instead of 15/4, I need to fill the space with an random Creature as a 1 off...
That doesn't sound any better than 4 ESG to me...
YawG
That would be the lack of random creatures to make ESG worthyQuote:
Originally Posted by Yawgmoth'sWill
I don't have the illusion that the difference will be huge though... but i'm also cutting from 19 to 18 pumps to add another creature, so...
@Nihilobstat
I didn't have Chasm in Mind, you're right. But Maze shouldn't be a problem because we play 8 untargettable creatures.
Against Lands again, I would board crypts, as this would nuke their chasm lock.
Pump in response means:
You have a nice tiny 2/2 Kavu Predator in play and your opponent has bwished for dd the turn before, and he will play it his next turn.
You don't use the invigorate in your hand to pump your predator, but play something else and tap yourself out.
The opponent who doesn't know your deck in his turn casts dd for 2, to destroy your predator and all your land.
In response you play invigorate, and have a 5/5 trample in play, while you opponent has cleared two of his lands.
This is what I play at my weekly legacy tournament. I like the deck but I feel it is quite luck based like ichorid.
Creatures:
4x Silhana Ledgewalker
4x Kavu Predator
4x Skarrgan Pit-Skulk
4x Slippery Bogle
4x Skyshroud Elite
3x Nettle Sentinal
2x Scryb Sprites
Boost:
4x Invigorate
4x Rancor
4x Might of Old Krosa
4x Berserk
2x Seal of Strength
Utility Lands:
3x Horizon Canopy
1x Pendelhaven
Basics:
13x Forest
Ok, a few things about the main deck. I would really like to fit Viridian Zealot in the main somewhere. Clearly the weakest creatures here are Nettle Sentinal and Scryb Sprites. I probably only want 2 zealots. Also, I don't play fetches because I don't want to be stifled. Lastly, I feel like my hands are creature heavy sometimes. Should I add more boost? If so, is it a third seal? What could I add?
Sideboard:
4x Vexing Shusher
4x Rushwood Legate
Those I feel are auto ins. Maybe not legate but in my experiance, she is incredible. Right now I am having some issues with the rest of the board because I am testing something new. I am thinking maybe the shusher can come down to 3 to make room but I don't know.
2x Seeds of Innocence
2x Tormod's Crypt
3x Nature's Claim
Alright, so I know there should be more graveyard hate. Also, I feel like the decks where an enchantment is causing me problems, it is usually only one. I don't expect to play against bitterblossom/contamination regularly. ^^^^^^ Haha. But Reverent Silence might still be better. Nature's Claim just looks so good.
Lemme know what you guys think. I will probably play this at the SCG Open: Indy so I need to finalize it. Thanks!!
I'd cut nature's claim to Gleeful Sabotage. Even Naturalize is better, because Claim can't avoid chalice or CB+Top ever.
If you wanna fit zealot, I'd start with Scryb. Scryb is great, and gets better with pendelhaven, but it's your weakest creature. Well, I like Nettle enough to play 4 of it, but yes, it would be the next along with Elite, one or the other, personal choice. I'd run 4 Nettle, and then X Zealots and Y Elites, X+Y=5.
I'd never cut to less than 18 pumps, I like the 19th to be Seal, but I don't feel that you got the room, so I'd go 18 pumps. It is tough enough, specially with seals and horizon.
Besides that, you got a straight forward list... I'd just cut Legate to something worthy against Zoo... Vastwoods?
After GP-Madrid, you may fear reanimator enough to use 4 tormods sideboard... I like tormods in a lot of matchups already, but against reanimator it's kind of our only hope, and then rush them before Showl and Tell. But it highly depends on how you think your meta will be. (Dunno if they are somewhat more popular, it's certainlly a consistant deck)
Sorry, but I don't have anyone to playtest an ANT against to see how effective is our rush against them. I certainly know that they don't need the IGG recursion, so tormod is kind of useless. But then, maybe you don't fear ANT having tons of showings...