[Deck] GW Survival

Yes that 3rd match was really really backbreaking pulling it of at 1 life. Man that was a game which makes me remember why magic is so much fun!


Tiny report:

Match 1 vs Goblins

Game 1:
I keep a risky hand with: Plains / wasteland / noble hierarch / sword / sword / goyf / goyf Hoping my opponent would play something with critters.
She started with badlands go. I wasted. drew knight. Mountain lackey go. draw forest! and proceed to kill the lackey and lay down the beatdown.

Game 2: I sword the T1 lackey and go T2 survival and soon 4 hasty friends follow up.

Match 2 vs Naya control (teammate)
Game 1
So he won the die roll and starts with land needle survival. Great he plays maindeck hate and know what deck I play. I soon get beatdown by an elspeth token which is altered art with my face on it! luckily I killed myself a couple of times but he gets the job done eventually.

Game 2
I manage to manascrew him but I have not enough pressure to get him down. I keep drawwing lands and eventually cycled all of my horizon canopies seeing more land.

Match 3 vs UG Madness Survival
Game 1
I keep a 1 land hander which gets punished by wasteland. stupid choice afcorse I should have known better thinking I could pull that off. Afcorse I drew no lands for the rest of the game.

Game 2
I manage to slow him down alot with aven mindcensor. we both have survival online and we trade some creatures. Still he is laying alot of pressure down on me and I manage to leave him with a forest and a wasteland but myself at 1 life. He got in with shrieking drake the entire time until I finally found a pro blue faerie. which makes my knight awesome big. But then he lands needle on mother of runes so I can't alpha swing him. I then fetch some canopies with my knight and that finds me grip. I then fetch cradle. get grip mana, grip the needle, untap knight with the ranger and get in for exactly 12 dmg thnx to pro green knight.

Game 3
He kept a hand which played 3 basics while I was getting the beatdown on with survival. He admit he should have mulled that one.

Match 4 vs Big Zoo
Game 1
My opponent had an agressive start with nactal following up with 2 more and also a noble hierarch + a bolt for my mother of runes. I eventually stabilize and get survival online. Not enough mana to start going crazy on the same turn so I pass. He then cast Natural order!! wtf ? I started to do some calculations and could only get in for 8 damage thnx to a second mother.

Game 2
I stabilize with survival and manage to manascrew him quite effective thnx to knight of the reliquary. Beatdown for the win.

Game 3
I stabelize once more and resolve a knight which he cant get through. I notice him being on 3 lands and passing a turn. He put him on natural order in hand and Choose not to block with knight next turn but just get a wasteland and receive some damage next turn. Waste puts him to 2 lands. Resolve survival and pass the turn. He flashes the top card which was the 4th land and then flashes the order and scoops.

Match 5 vs 4c CB top
Game 1
My opponent was a friend of the zoo player and came to take revenge. he goes Island go. and I play a mother which resolves. He goes T2 CB. which blind flips everything from there on.

Game 2
CB doesnt get any blind flips this time luckily and plays needle on survival. I follow up resolving survival next and grip the needle. Proceed to get vengevines online.

Game 3
He mulls to 6 and decides to keep a 1 island hand with no cantrips. I lay down the beatdown and waste his topdeck tundra. No lands followed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Micron

In fact I only boarded them against TES, Monoblack and AggroLoam and I was only able to Reanimate Iona against Monoblack. I'm still asking myself if it's worth these slots anymore because nowadays everybody has Karakas/2 colour removal or they simply can't do the job early enough.

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Congratz on your finish! And thanks for your props! Glad you like the list and it played out well for you! ;)

I played another small tournament yesterday, too - going 3-1.

R1: Reanimator 0-2
R2: Tempo Thresh 2-0
R3: Mono White Stax 2-0
R4: 2-Land Belcher 2-1

I made a last minute change before the tournament, adding Iona/ LR back to the sideboard. During the course of the tournament I never made use of them, so I will probably cut these two entirely for now, to make more room for other cards in the board.
I really like your second EE in the board and probably will add a second copy to mine aswell.

@Waikiki: Gratz to you aswell! Could you post your list?

// Lands
4 [FUT] Horizon Canopy
3 [TE] Wasteland
1 [LG] Karakas
4 [A] Savannah
4 [ON] Windswept Heath
1 [US] Gaea's Cradle
2 [M11] Forest (3)
1 [M11] Plains (2)
3 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest

// Creatures
4 [ROE] Vengevine
4 [CFX] Noble Hierarch
4 [CFX] Knight of the Reliquary
3 [UL] Mother of Runes
3 [ON] Weathered Wayfarer
2 [TSP] Scryb Ranger
3 [ARB] Qasali Pridemage
1 [TO] Basking Rootwalla
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
1 [FD] Eternal Witness

// Spells
4 [EX] Survival of the Fittest
4 [A] Swords to Plowshares

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
SB: 1 [SHM] Faerie Macabre
SB: 1 [FUT] Aven Mindcensor
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 1 [WL] Null Rod
SB: 1 [LRW] Gaddock Teeg
SB: 1 [DK] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 [MI] Enlightened Tutor
SB: 1 [ROE] Lone Missionary
SB: 1 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
SB: 1 [CFX] Path to Exile
SB: 1 [ROE] Oust
SB: 1 [TSP] Children of Korlis

I played a small tournament (19 players) too - going 3-2.

Round 1: 2-Land Belcher 1-2

Winning Preboard, and losing to a First Turn kill in Match 3 with the hate on hand just waiting to be cast on the second turn...

Round 2: Burn 2-0

Iona is just gamewinning against Mono coloured Decks.

Round 3: Bant Aggro 2-1

Mother of Runes wins the game with no Survival ind the other game Survival makes the game.

Round 4: Bant Aggto 2-0

Never saw a Survival in this games, but got more and bigger threads than he does.

Round 5: ANT 0-2

after boarding i ve survival online but he has the bounce for my disruption killing me on turn 3 with more protection in hand.

My List:

// Lands
4 [REW] Wasteland
2 [B] Tropical Island
3 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
2 [US] Forest (3)
4 [ON] Windswept Heath
1 [U] Plains (2)
3 [U] Savannah
1 [US] Gaea's Cradle
1 [U] Tundra

// Creatures
2 [TO] Basking Rootwalla
4 [ROE] Vengevine
4 [CFX] Noble Hierarch
1 [JU] Wonder
2 [REB] Qasali Pridemage
4 [CFX] Knight of the Reliquary
1 [DIS] Trygon Predator
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
3 [M11] Fauna Shaman
1 [ZEN] Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 [P3] Loyal Retainers
4 [UL] Mother of Runes

// Spells
4 [EX] Survival of the Fittest
4 [CST] Swords to Plowshares

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [CH] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 2 [SHM] Faerie Macabre
SB: 2 [LRW] Gaddock Teeg
SB: 3 [ZEN] Spell Pierce
SB: 1 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
SB: 1 [ALA] Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 2 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 1 [MI] Enlightened Tutor
SB: 2 [NE] Submerge

I'm still testing with a little blue splash for Wonder, which was gamewinning in many games where the ground was full of chumbblockers.

At least it was bad that i was paired against the only two Combodecks on the tournament. Combo is still a realy bad matchup. I ve won some in other trounaments before with t1 mother -> teeg /canonist. But at least it's just a terrible matchup.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Waikiki

So I played GW survival in the PTAmsterdam side event going 4-1.

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congrats!

I actually played the side event on friday with GW Vengevine survival (after trading/buying for the needed pieces). We had 90-ish players. 7 Rounds with a cut to top 4(!).

I didn't take any notes, but I'll try a short (well maybe not so much in hindsight) report as well:

Round 1: NO Bant (Alan something, a Polish pro)
He whines a lot about bad luck in the main event, getting manascrewed a lot with Faeries and 27 lands.
g1 He gets t2, t3, t4 Goyf, which I can't match.
I think I board in Maze of Ith and 2 Grips in case he has Counterbalance or Jitte. Don't know what I boarded out.
g2 He has turn 2 Jitte, turn 3 War Monk. I have a small Goyf and a Maze of Ith, so the ground is stalled until he draws Noble Hierarch and Natural Order for Progenitus. Couldn't race it.

0-2
0-1 matches

Round 2: Ugb Standstill with Loam (Jan Brodzak)
g1 Sees him getting a fast Standstill and Jace after Spell Snaring my first two plays (Goyf and Survival). The game goes long with me getting some small beats in and him blowing up the board multiple times with Deeds. In the end Vengevine keeps coming back and he can't do shit about it.
I board in 2 Grips and probably a Crypt for a couple Moms.
g2 I stumble on mana, and he manages to keep my threats at bay and have a late Extirpate for my Vengevines.
g3 My turn 2 Survival resolves. We don't have much time on the clock. Turn 3 pass. He plays Engineered Explosives for 2 with Underground Sea up. I figure that if I go for Vengevine and he doesn't have the Extirpate, I win. If he does have it, we'll probably draw. I went with the Vengevines and he has the Extirpate, time is called and we ID. If we had some more time I would've played more conservatively. Could've gotten just 1 Vengevine in hand (pitching Birds) and attack with that.

1-1-1 (1-3-1 total)
0-1-1 matches (always a good way to start a tournament)

Oh well, no top 4 for me. Actually didn't feel too bad about it, because we started at 4 PM and top 4 would've meant playing until AT LEAST 1 AM. Guess it's time for some noob bashing and maybe get me some boosters.

Round 3: Dredge (can't remember his name, it was his first tournament with Dredge)
g1 Was quite awesome. His first turn (on the draw) he just discards Imp. He dredges some and gets some 'moebas, Ichorids and Bridges, but somehow no juicy Dread Return targets and I manage to keep up with Survival into Vengevines. At some point he announces he is going to draw a card for the turn :eyebrow: and goes Breakthrough into Dread Return into... just a Golgari Grave-Troll. He still could not attack very well, because I clogged the ground and he didn't want to lose all of his Bridges. I manage to get them removed in an attack of my own and the game slows down even more. He does dredge an Iona into his bin and reanimates it (calling green). I can block his Iona for a while with my Birds though, so I'm not scared yet. He goes into draw a card-mode (had only like 6 or 7 cards left in his library. In the turn before I die, I draw my second (green) creature, pitch them both to survival getting 2 Moms (mine and his) and get all 4 Vengevines back. He can't kill me next turn because I have JUST enough blockers and Iona will put me to 2 life, but if he does attack, my double Mom protection will kill him (he's at 4). He scoops because there's no way he can win anymore.
Sweet, because I thought about scooping like 15 minutes ago.
+1 Teeg, +2 Path, +1 Crypt, +2 Tutor, +1 Bojuka Bog, +Dueling Grounds and Jitte too, -2 Wayfarer, -1 Rootwalla probably, -4 Pridemage, -2 Swords to Plowshares.
g2 I get t2 Teeg, which he claims does nothing against him. He then proceeds to dredge away 2 Chain of Vapor and a couple Ancient Grudge/Ray of Revelation, while I just kick his ass with Goyf and Teeg. Turn before he dies he has 2 'Moebas and a returned Ichorid and a Dread Return in grave. He Chains my Teeg away, I sac a land and bounce his Ichorid on the return denying him the Dread Return anyway. I suppose him not dredging into any Bridges helped ;).

2-0 against Dredge! lol, didn't expect that for sure. (3-3-1 in games total)
1-1-1

Round 4: Lands (Shaun Powels, hope I spelled your name right)
He turns out to be Belgian and not English/American like I expected. Cool guy.
g1 He goes turn 1 Manabond, eot discard Loam, Intuition, play Maze and Port. Upkeep port your land, dredge into more Ports etc etc. I scoop when he puts the nail in the coffin as he transmutes for Tabernacle.
board +2 Faerie Mac, +2 Grip, +1 Crypt, +2 Tutor, -4 Moms, -2 Finks, -1 Rootwalla
g2 I manage to remove his first Loam with a Faerie, 2nd Loam with another Faerie and 3rd (!) Loam with Bojuka Bog fetched by Knight of the Reliquary (all courtesy of Survival). I then proceed to get another Knight and waste all his defenses. I actually got the t1 Birds, t2 Survival and wanted to go for Vengevines, but noticed I boarded out Rootwalla, which made me a tad bit too slow. I notice too that I didn't board out Swords (probably so I could remove his Factories, yeah, brainfart right there). I won anyway so it's all good.
board out Swords and go +1 Null Rod, +1 Teeg, put Rootwalla and 1 Finks back in.
g3 Was all about Wayferer getting Wasteland after Wasteland while beating with a couple of men and paying for Tabernacle upkeep. He went on a major digging frenzy the turn before I won, but couldn't find the Manabond to drop both his Loamed Mazes AND his Chasm.

2-1 (5-4-1 total) didn't expect to win this one either... this is the first one where Wayfarer really came through
2-1-1

Round 5: NO Bant (Peter Mottram)
g1 I put him on NO at one point, so I Plow his only green creature (a Hierarch), while getting Wastelands with Knight/Wayfarer. Then he proceeds to drop back to back to back Goyfs, but I manage to draw more big men than him and win. Haven't seen NO so far though.
don't know how I boarded, probably only +2 Path, -2 Finks, as Maze of Ith actually seemed lackluster in this matchup (boarded it in in round 1)
g2 Wayfarer goes nuts on his mana again and I handily beat him with big men again. After the game he did show me Progenitus, so I guess my gut was right. Still felt awkward Plowing his Hierarch though...

2-0 (7-4-1 total)
3-1-1

Round 6: Bant Survival with Iona and Emrakul (Gijs something, always forget his last name, sorry dude)
g1 Wayferer does his thing. However, he has Hierarch and Survival, so it only slows him down for a little bit. He finds Iona into Retainers, but is afraid to attack me because I have some men and enough Birds (3) to block his Iona for a while. He plays reaaly slow making jokes and trashtalking a bit. I land Survival with 3 mana up, he finds Qasali Pridemage and says go. I activate Survival, no response, get Vengevine activate Survival again, no response, get another Vengevine activate Survival again, again no response, get another Vengevine. My turn? Yeah. (...) O..Kay. Untap. Activate Survival, no response, get Vengevine activate Survival, STILL NO RESPONSE, get Vengevine, then a Goyf and proceed to get all 4 Vengevines AND a Goyf into play. Awkward. I attack, he blocks some, and Plows a Vengevine. Next turn he does the same (he did Pridemage the Survival now BTW). At some point I actually remember I traded for a nice minty fresh Karakas, which Wayfarer goes hunting for. He finds Emrakul, which was odd, considering I had Karakas. I bounce his legends and we're good. Game keeps going back and forth, I get some more pressure, he finds Sower, I draw Swords for Sower, he draws Swords for my men, I draw Qasali for Survival (finally!) and slowly I get the upper hand with him on less than 10 life and me in the high 30s from Swords and Finks. He keeps making jokes and I happily join him (not slowplaying), because I'll probably win this game and we're getting close to time. Eventually he dies, with only a couple minutes on the clock. He scoops, saying he actually wanted to drop after last round but for some reason forgot to. That explains the friendly banter and loose play I guess :). The game was a lot of fun however and I'm glad I pulled it out. MVP? Wayfarer. Hands down.

1-0 (8-4-1 total)
4-1-1 (prizes baby!)

Round 5: Zoo (Tom Ross. Yeah, THAT guy)
I'm always excited to play pros. I seem to want to win more and if I lose, I probably just lost to a better player, so it's all good. He wasn't that talkative, but seemed like an ok dude.
g1 I think I'm on the play. He opens on dual, Nacatl. I do a mental fistpump. Good matchup, now just hope I don't screw up or he outplays me. This one turned out to be pretty easy. My turn 2 survival gets to live a turn, fetching up a couple Vengevines and a Kitchen Finks that kick his ass.
+2 Path, +1 Jitte, +1 Tutor. +1 Maze (I think) for something like -2 Wayfarer, -1 Rootwalla, -2 something.
g2 I actually have a Survival, but decide not to cast it until after I build a nice board and won't lose too much with him destroying it. My deck should be able to grind it out, unless I put all my eggs in one basket and blows me out with a hate card. I make a misplay by attacking with my Vengevine into his 28(!) life, instead of blocking, but I manage to stablize at 7 life, and draw a Kitchen Finks shortly after and big guy after big guy. One of my last attacks sees him double-blocking my Vengevine with Qasali and Lavamancer, but I have the Path for his Qasali. He shoots Kitchen Finks with Grim and then shows me a Ravenous Trap he miscalculated on. He counted on the Path, but somehow he was counting on being able to remove my Finks before it persisted as well.
After the game, someone (Jandax) asks me how that felt. It felt good ;).

2-0 (10-4-1 total)
5-1-1

That was enough for me to end up 7th, so that's a virtual top 8 (which it should've been with 90 people, probably would've if we had started at 11 am instead of 4 pm).

I was very pleased with the deck, especially with the cards I almost cut: Weathered Wayfarer and Kitchen Finks, which where not always that good in testing, but really came through for me in the matchups they had to. It turned out to be pretty resilient with almost every card drawns having impact on the game. The only thing I'm not sure about are the Birds of Paradise. I don't own any Noble Hierarchs and wasn't able to trade for/buy them after I already had needed to acquire Vengevines, Savannahs and the Karakas (actually, Karakas could've been 4 Hierarchs, but I wanted Karakas more). Birds were actually not bad, because there were a couple of games they could block some flying creature which enable me to race it (Iona I'm looking at you!). That, and I have nice FBB Revised Birds :P. So for now, I'm not going to change anything to the mainboard.
I liked the sideboard too, although some cards will probably end up being replaced.

My list for reference, the mainboard is one of the first GW Vengevine lists Tao posted, while the sideboard is moslty Waikiki's with some adjustments:

Lands (23)
4 Savannah
4 Horizon Canopy
4 Windswept Heath
4 Forest
3 Wasteland
2 Wooded Foothills
1 Plains
1 Karakas

Creatures (29)

4 Birds of Paradise
4 Mother of Runes
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Vengevine
2 Weathered Wayfarer
2 Kitchen Finks

Spells (8)
4 Survival of the Fittest
4 Swords to Plowshares

SB
2 Enlightened Tutor
2 Krosan Grip
2 Faerie Macabre
2 Path to Exile
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Null Rod
1 Maze of Ith
1 Dueling Grounds
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Gaddock Teeg

grats on the finish.

We had 90 people aswell but they for some reason chose to make it 5 rounds!!! that means u needed to 5-0 without any T4 playoff. So even if you did go 5-0 if your round 1 opponent scrubbed out your resistance sucked ass and you could never get to first place. Shame they started at 15:00 and the Scars party was at 21 so no time for such an actual bigger event.

Did you find dueling grounds/maze worth it? I dont see maze being that awesome and dueling grounds kinda annoys the vengevine plan.
Thoughts?

Wow, that's ridiculous...

@ Maze: It wasn't that good. I figured it would be nice to search up creature removal with Knight/Wayfarer, but it didn't come up. It held off a War Monk + Jitte quite nicely, but the untap part made sure I couldn't attack either. I think I'd rather have the 3rd Finks in my side (which is something I really want to try out).

@ Dueling Grounds: you're right, it's awful with the Vengevine plan. However, I do want to test it some more, because on paper it looks sooo good in some matchups. It could be very possible that the drawback is too steep though. Maybe board it in with Retainers/Iona? It's too bad it has antergy with our own plan, just like Ethersworn Canonist...

You got some interesting one-offs in your sideboard as well. How were Oust, Children and Mindcencor for you? I think I might go down to 1 Tutor as we..

I haven't really felt the need for iona in the side. I also dont see where dueling ground could serve you good. Aggro matches seem favored allready


Mindcensor was MVP vs UG Madness and I guess other survival decks aswell. It also does fairly good in the combo matchup I guess.

I couldn't make up my mind between oust and path to exile so I chose a 1/1 split. Didn't matter that day. Also children is against Tendrills and perhaps some burn deck.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Waikiki

I haven't really felt the need for iona in the side. I also dont see where dueling ground could serve you good. Aggro matches seem favored allready

Mindcensor was MVP vs UG Madness and I guess other survival decks aswell. It also does fairly good in the combo matchup I guess.

I couldn't make up my mind between oust and path to exile so I chose a 1/1 split. Didn't matter that day. Also children is against Tendrills and perhaps some burn deck.

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I like Dueling grounds against Dredge and maybe Belcher/other combo with ETW as well. Only aggro matchup I would side it in is Goblins, but I haven't played Goblins with this deck yet, so who knows.

I had Mindcencer as well, but replaced it with Faerie Macabre. Faerie is good against Survival as well and I think gravehate is more important in the matchups where it matters then Mindcencor against combo. Plus, being uncounterable seems it would be important against UG(w) Survival. Your cards are better as long as you can remove quick Vengevines and Wonder. Can't be removed by StP either. I had no problem whatsoever playing 2. Your thoughts?

I might try 1 Oust, I'm not sure it's better than Path, but testing will have to prove it.

Children is a nice find though. I wanted some extra hate for combo, but 2nd Gaddock Teeg seemed a bit weak (although he might find his way in) and Canonist was out for the same reason Dueling Grounds looks awkward. I'll try it.

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How do you guys like Gaea's Cradle btw? I haven't felt the need to put it in, but I see a lot of lists with it.

What bout 3 vs 4 Wastelands?

@Wasteland, I think when having so many ways to tutor for wasteland 3 are sufficient.

Cradle has been awesome for me as long as it's in.

Faerie macabre is indeed a nice inclusion but I do not like the CDA it makes against non dredge matchups. since we got not squee to regain advantage. I prefer aven because of that.

@Wasteland:

Believe me, against UG Survival Maddnes, Aven Mindcensor is almost game over. The Faerie is not as good, it's only a minor setback. A Mindcensor disrupts the plan of the UG Madness player way more. I won't start bragging I'm a better player then Waikiki (which I'm obviously not), but I would have taken the second game we played (I was his third opponent) if only for the Mindcensor, I would have easily recovered from the faerie.

Has anyone given Natural Order serious consideration for gw survival?
I was watching a dvd and started to think about how Iona/Retainers is on the fringe of being Md/sb or left out. This lead to pondering about how vital the opening cards are when starting the game. I thought for a bit about what cards I would like to see when starting the game.

Natural order sprang to mind. It is fantastic without survival, if progenitus is in your hand, go find kotr. She is probably a 5/5 by the time you are ordering. Also, progenitus pitches nicely to survival. It gives the deck 7 possible "engines/combos" to start a game with.

The downside is that it is a somewhat hefty 4 mana, which could eat dazes or spell pierces g1. For g2 and 3 it could get hosed to green sweeps. So this would need to get sb'd out if perish is coming in.

I know it has been used in other decks similar to this, but I could not recall anyone trying it for GW survival. Regardless, I hope to give it a try over the next few weeks.

Edit-additional information: not many of us are playing Teeg main, so that does not interfere. However, 3 natural orders dillutes the creatures and is exacerbated due to the lack of squee. This may need to be addressed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Atwa

Believe me, against UG Survival Maddnes, Aven Mindcensor is almost game over.

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Good to hear from the other side of the table! If you are that sure about it, I will definitely go -1 Faerie, +1 Mindcencor


@ Natural Order: I thought about it, but I'm not so sure if it would be any good. The question you have to ask is if NO would improve bad matchups. If yes, then maybe we should consider it, if no, then not. In which matchups would NO be good?

I wouldn´t suggest playing Natural Order in a deck without any countermagic (or at least Anger) at the moment. Since there are so many lists that feature Perish right now, it´s not that hard to get rid of Progenitus for people anymore, than it still was some months ago.
Also, I can´t think of any MatchUp that would be improved adding NO/Pro, so in my opinion it really does not fit into this particular deck.

I still have not had the chance to play some games, but conceptually this is what I like about it:
A) with 4 survival and 3 natural orders in the deck an opening hand will very often have one of them. To make room for the 4 card combo I took out iona, retainers, a wayfarer, and a pridemage.
B) Perish and green sweeps are not maindeck, so the 4 cards can easily be taken out for cards that are strong against those decks. Paths for merfolk, grips for control, etc.

As of now I don't know if the combo will really improve X% against Y deck, but it seems it could provide consistency across the board.

C) I think the no countermagic to play NO is overrated. Survival eats countermagic, goyf if they don't have removal, kotr too. Possibly even a swords on their own guy.

This could end up being a failure, but I am excited about it.


Edit- got to play preboard games vs GRb aggro loam and am convinced that NoPro adds to the win % of game 1.

Hey,

i play the following list atm and i wonder if iona/LR is needed anymore or except against combo ull go everytime for the vengevine plan? at least iona/LR work well and fast with fauna shaman.

// Lands
1 [M11] Plains (1)
4 [M11] Forest (1)
3 [FUT] Horizon Canopy
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
4 [ON] Windswept Heath
3 [R] Savannah
3 [TE] Wasteland

// Creatures
1 [P3] Loyal Retainers
1 [ZEN] Iona, Shield of Emeria
3 [ARB] Qasali Pridemage
4 [UL] Mother of Runes
4 [CFX] Noble Hierarch
4 [CFX] Knight of the Reliquary
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
4 [M11] Fauna Shaman
3 [ROE] Vengevine
1 [FNM] Basking Rootwalla
1 [SHM] Kitchen Finks

// Spells
4 [EX] Survival of the Fittest
4 [CST] Swords to Plowshares

// Sideboard
SB: 2 [LRW] Gaddock Teeg
SB: 1 [DDD] Faerie Macabre
SB: 3 [ALA] Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 4 [CFX] Path to Exile
SB: 1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog

does anyone have some advices? dont wanna ruin my total rating for byes anymore at the next grand prix.

The list looks really good, I like it. About Iona/LR: I am not 100% sure, but I think they deserve a spot in the Fauna Shaman list. Tapping a 2-drop twice to put Iona into play seems sick enough and it gives you an additional game plan. Especially vs. decks like Staxx, Elves, Burn, Dredge, Enchantress, Lands or Survival Madness Iona does more than Vengevines alone.

4 Path to Exile? Depends on the Meta you expect. Vs. Zoo this is the best thing you can do. Vs. Goblins you don't want that much spot removal because they will just Out-Ringleader you. Vs. Merfolk I have not tested with so many Pathes yet but it sounds good to just exile as many Lords as possible.

I tested against merfolk today und won 13-0 preboard and 12-2 postboard (4 perish and 2 additional StP)

i guess gobblins isnt that hard if u have a survival and i guess theyll win only if they put out too much pressure via goblin lackey and StP and PtE both handle this problem.

i also tested against a doomsday-storm list played by a good player (1850 total) and won about 40% percent of the matches which isnt that bad against our so called autoloss

im still not sure if zoo is a good mu: preboard i guess well lose if we dont have an active survival on t2 cause they have more removal and similiar guys, postboard i guess with 8 StP it isnt too bad, but still not an 80% MU

i think with the list posted above the problemetic MUs are zoo, dredge and combo. goblins isnt that hard as far as i tested if they dont have a t1 lackey, i also had problems with a good landstill player sometimes.

i wonder i should cut 1 pridemage for the 4. vengevine?

need more input :-)

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Originally Posted by APodeschwa

Hey,

i play the following list atm and i wonder if iona/LR is needed anymore or except against combo ull go everytime for the vengevine plan? at least iona/LR work well and fast with fauna shaman.

// Lands
1 [M11] Plains (1)
4 [M11] Forest (1)
3 [FUT] Horizon Canopy
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
4 [ON] Windswept Heath
3 [R] Savannah
3 [TE] Wasteland

// Creatures
1 [P3] Loyal Retainers
1 [ZEN] Iona, Shield of Emeria
3 [ARB] Qasali Pridemage
4 [UL] Mother of Runes
4 [CFX] Noble Hierarch
4 [CFX] Knight of the Reliquary
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
4 [M11] Fauna Shaman
3 [ROE] Vengevine
1 [FNM] Basking Rootwalla
1 [SHM] Kitchen Finks

// Spells
4 [EX] Survival of the Fittest
4 [CST] Swords to Plowshares

// Sideboard
SB: 2 [LRW] Gaddock Teeg
SB: 1 [DDD] Faerie Macabre
SB: 3 [ALA] Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 4 [CFX] Path to Exile
SB: 1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog

does anyone have some advices? dont wanna ruin my total rating for byes anymore at the next grand prix.

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well, ist almost exactly the same list i play, so i might help.

vv vs finks:
i've testet a lot vs zoo, cuz i was sure, that it would drop drastically with cutting finks and adding shamans and vines, wich kinda sucks vs. zoo/goblins, but in fact the mu didnt get that bad, as i excepted, as long as they are not able to apply to much pressure in the early turns.
i tested vs. a list with lynx md and my opponent mulligened agressively for fast hands, but the odds were like 55-45 or at last 60-40 in favor of zoo pre-board, and it used to be 60-40 in our favor post hoard, as we simply had path, to stop their assault.
you could maybe add a fink or 2 to the board, if zoo and goblins are common decks in your meta, but vv is by far the stronger card in the md, and you want any vv you can draw vs any kind of control deck, so it just might be a meta call.

lands:
im not sure, if 22 lands are enough.
i'm testing around with cradle, wich is sometimes absolutely retarded (4th turn hardcast iona, or double vv in turn 3, or anyting with survival+vv) and sometimes its just like shit on your hands..

iona:
i'm 100% sure, that it deserves a slot in the 8-sotf lists, its a fast game-closer vs. all non blue decks and allmost immune to edicts.

combo:
i havent lost a match vs. combo in the last 9 month, with gw sur, fabian knabe, a friend of mine won 2 out of 3 vs. combo.
the bigest problem is, that they will win almost every g1 and if they have have the turn1/2 kill in g3, you just can't do anything, but we play wasteland, mother and hatebears + a fast clock, i guess its still not positive, but by far no "autoloss"...

qpm:

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2. I had the same concerns, so I started with 22 lands and 3 QPM, and had to add the 23th land again because of the curve/8SotF, qpm is by far the wakest card you play.
The difference betwenn drawing a QPM in the first 3 turns with 3 MD and 2MD is like 10% (~40 vs ~30), and it matters only if your opponent drops 1st turn vial, or 2nd turn CB/SotF, plus you have FS now to combat CB.

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=4th vv.

you should maybe add a karakas to the md, and a mindcensor (combo, mirror) to the sb, instead of the 4th path i think 3 are really enough.

So I've had some time to test. I used APodeschwas list and it felt pretty much right. 3 Vengevines were enough, Iona plays her part and the 4 Path to Exiles were very useful vs. the tier decks, especially Zoo. Fauna Shaman was overall good, it is already great to discard a Vengevine on turn 3, get a Mother and Reanimate the Vine.

Vs. Merfolk:
The matchup isn't a compelte bye anymore like half a year ago. The 4 Coralhelm Commanders are a pain and should they run Saito's list with the Perishes it gets quite uncomfortable post boarding.
Vs. the mono blue version GW is still the huge favorite pre- and post board. I side + 4 Pathes, - 2 Iona/Retainers, - 2 Fauna.
Vs. Black splash G1 is as easy as always, but G2 the Perishes are a pain. To weaken them I side: - 2 Noble Hierarch, - 2 Qasali Pridemage; + 4 Path to Exile. Iona Combo stays in because Iona doesn't care about Perish. Fortunately they also have to weaken their deck a bit to bring in all the hate. So thanks to Mother of Runes and removal on their Lords I was still ahead.

Vs. Zoo:
I don't know why some people think Zoo is a bad matchup. It was 50/50 preboard and favorable postboard. In this matchup the 4 Pathes helped the most. Removing their 1-drop without worrying about not having another Removal for their more important guy was pretty helpful. I sided - 3 Pridemage, - 1 Wasteland + 4 Path to Exile

Vs. Goblins:
This matchup is so weird. It is nearly always one side completely destroying the opponent. Sometimes they go wild with Lackey, Vial or Warchief, sometimes we go wild with Survival, Mother of Runes or Knight of the Reliquary. Oddly enough the roles change from game to game, sometimes you have to play more controllish, sometimes really aggressive. Finding the right role is key. Sideboarding correctly is not easy, actually I still have no clue how to board vs. them.

Vs. UGB Jacestill:
G1 is ~ 90% in our favor thanks to Vengevine, but I tested with 4 Vengevines so that might change a bit. If you expect that deck, definetely play a 4th Vengevine. They have just no solution for a recurring 4 Power Haster, edicting it won't help, using Deed it won't help, bouncing won't help. Sometimes it is just THAT easy, they can't even kill it and lock you out of creatures because you play too many + Fetchlands that negates one Jace activation + Canopies. G2 gets more complicated because they bring Extirpates. Fortunately the deck is easy to play against, you can side out Swords without fear, also maybe Iona/Retainers and bring in Grips + Teeg + whatever you feel appropiate.

Vs.Countertop with Progenitus:
Didn't make too many games but it felt slightly in their favor overall, somewhere between 50% and 55% but certainly not 60%. Having no solution for Progenitus is a problem, but they also have a problem if they don't get a quick Prog because between Wastelands, Vengevines, KotR, Survival and Shamans they have a tough time taking control. Play very aggressive. Side in all Grips and Teegs that you have, Iona/Retainers and Finks are not needed.