[Deck] Painter-Stone

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TkDodo

First off, I’m a true believer in 60 card decks, especially when it comes to combo. We want to draw our combo pieces naturally as often as possible, and having that 61st card will reduce our chances to do so.

---

The thing here is 20 land/60 cards or 21 land/61 cards. My mulligan percentage was always higher with the first option. I just feel more safe playing 21 lands :-) I'm thinking about decreasing Mox Opal count to one, but I am not still that uncomfortable playing 61.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TkDodo

I don’t think we are heavily GY dependent just because of Intuition. If there is a card in our deck that makes us depend on the GY, it’s Welder. More often than not, I see Intuition as a 3 mana instant speed Demonic Tutor going for one specific card. I think you mostly only go for piles with different cards if you have an active Welder out, so most of the time, it will be 3x [insert missing card here]. 2x Intuition is the minimum I would do as well. I have 3 and sometimes board one out, with the reason being 1) Surgical Extraction and 2) 3 mana being a lot sometimes.

---

Seems a decent reasoning to me :-) Maybe I shall test -1 Tezz, + 1 Intuition.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TkDodo

Don’t forget our “main” piece of protection: Goblin Welder. He protects us from discard, counterspells and removal that’s not Swords to Plowshares. Spellskite is great in certain matchups (read: decks relying on Lightning Bolt), but a tad slow for the maindeck. I think I want to try Misdirection in the main deck first, since its for free and great against Decay and Hymn. Imo the main deck is all about speed. We can go for more protection post board.

---

Can't agree with that. Just because how great goblin welder is, I think is really important to protect him. Welder + Spellskite protect your combo pieces from everything, including swords to plowshares. I think I haven't lost a game yet with those two guys on board.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TkDodo

I honestly don’t get it. If you want to Transmute Grim Monolith away for a Wurmcoil but can’t because your 1-of is in your hand, just hardcast it !? It will cost you 6 mana no matter what (UU for Transmute, and 4 to pay the difference).
The Intuition story sounds true in theory, but it never came up for me in practice. You do need an active Welder, which is unlikely against Jund or BUG or RUG in the first place, because any decent Player will kill Welder on sight. I did go for Painter/Stone/Wurmcoil once against RUG, he gave me Wurmcoil, I hardcast it to stabilize and combo a couple turns later.
Long story short: Before playing 3 Transmute, 2 Wurmcoil, I would do 4 Transmute, 1 Wurmcoil every day. The spots where you draw a Wurmcoil wishing it was a Tutor for the combo will out weight the fringe spots where you need a second Wurmcoil.

---

Lol, Monolith is not the only artifact to Transmute! :-) I was meaning a board when not having any single piece of the combo but a Goblin Welder you need to Transmute something to Entomb the Wurmcoil and weld it. It sucks if it is in our hand, and as I said it happens to me quite often. :-/

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TkDodo

Tezzert sounds interesting, and his ultimate is definitely another nice angle of attack. It would be interesting to know how hard he really is to cast. I found out that sometimes a timely Wasteland from our opponent or dazing a Grim Monolith or something along those lines can really screw us up. On the other hand, how about Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas? Black mana would be an issue, but he only costs 4 and his abilities look decent overall.

Finally, I think Nihil Spellbomb is just really greedy in your list. You can only produce black with Mox Opal, so you won’t cantrip reliably. Crypt seems way better – one mana will make the difference very often.

I would also love to find room for a one off Academy Ruins as the 5th Goblin Welder. People tend to Wasteland our Sol Lands anyway, so it might have a higher chance to survive. It should be great against decks without Wasteland and it makes Intuition an even more attractive option. It’s just that I love the mana base the way it is and can’t convince myself to change anything.

---

Tezz as you said is another nice angle of attack, but maybe 1 should be enough. Agent of Bolas's back requirement is a big issue for me and it does not find your combo pieces instantly without casting them.

Maybe just a little bit greedy :P. I really think the "remote" possibility of cantrip for the spellbomb is worth it, and in fact I dont think one mana will make the difference that often assuming you will not have black for the cantrip. I have never had that problem so far. It also offers the chance to Transmute to Painter/spellskite for just 1UU.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TkDodo

Glen-Elendra does not look like it’s what this deck needs. It will cost you 3UU to cast her and being able to counter something this turn, so I think it’s way too slow against combo. I would also up your GY hate count and your Blood Moon count to 3, since it’s the magic number for Intuition. Against Dredge for instance, I went Crypt-Crypt-Crypt on Turn 2 a ton to slow them down.

---

Yep, maybe with the 3rd Intuition I should go back to the the magic number! ;-)

Thanks for your comments!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 4n1m4

The thing here is 20 land/60 cards or 21 land/61 cards. My mulligan percentage was always higher with the first option. I just feel more safe playing 21 lands :-) I'm thinking about decreasing Mox Opal count to one, but I am not still that uncomfortable playing 61.

---

I also added the 21st land in place of the LED. It is Academy Ruins. I love it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 4n1m4

Can't agree with that. Just because how great goblin welder is, I think is really important to protect him. Welder + Spellskite protect your combo pieces from everything, including swords to plowshares. I think I haven't lost a game yet with those two guys on board.

---

It is true, Spellskite + Welder is very good. They will need two removals for them and then need another one for the Painter. I also love this combination – postboard. When people bring in Disenchants and Grudges and more spot removal and such, Spellskite is great. Most decks have, what, 4-6 Painter killing removal spells in the main (Bolt, Decay, Swords, maybe Snapcaster). Of course, there is still counters and discard, which Welder is also great against, but I think your configuration lacks a good amount of speed pre-board. If you have Welder + Spellskite, the rest of your hand better be gas. I have lost some games with those two out because I couldn’t find the combo fast enough (dying to Delver for instance).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 4n1m4

Lol, Monolith is not the only artifact to Transmute! :-) I was meaning a board when not having any single piece of the combo but a Goblin Welder you need to Transmute something to Entomb the Wurmcoil and weld it. It sucks if it is in our hand, and as I said it happens to me quite often. :-/

---

That is true, don’t know how I could forget that, especially because I did it once or twice ;) It’s still fringe though, you need 1) Welder out and active, 2) Wurmcoil in hand and no Brainstorm to put it back 3) TA in hand, 4) not enough mana to cast Wurmcoil but UU available and 5) Wurmcoil must be a desirable play in your current game. Don’t know why people worry so much about that scenario. Maybe it happens more often to you because you have two mainboard *g* ?
But maybe it is a better configuration if you have Welder + Spellskite mainboard, because then your Welder will probably live longer.

How is Kira for you in the board? Is it better than Spellskite? And what are your plans against storm combo? They are at least a turn faster than we are, and a chant effect would shut off all your post-board answers ...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TkDodo

That is true, don’t know how I could forget that, especially because I did it once or twice ;) It’s still fringe though, you need 1) Welder out and active, 2) Wurmcoil in hand and no Brainstorm to put it back 3) TA in hand, 4) not enough mana to cast Wurmcoil but UU available and 5) Wurmcoil must be a desirable play in your current game. Don’t know why people worry so much about that scenario. Maybe it happens more often to you because you have two mainboard *g* ?
But maybe it is a better configuration if you have Welder + Spellskite mainboard, because then your Welder will probably live longer.

---

Exactly. I normally never cast Welder without protection, except when I have Intuition or Painter/Stone next turn. It is the key card of the deck because of the way it interacts with our tutors. I am not very worried with the speed of the deck though. If you find the combo fast is Ok, but that depends on your first seven cards. I mean, I will not mull if I can go 3rd turn kill when I don't know vs what I am playing but normally I feel safe with hands with Protection like Welder + Spellskite. I normally assume I am playing against a "fair" deck. Maybe the "Wurmcoil thing" happens because I run 2 MD :-P, but it's not like you have always Brainstorm in hand and I am not running SDT to avoid the unlucky draw...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TkDodo

How is Kira for you in the board? Is it better than Spellskite? And what are your plans against storm combo? They are at least a turn faster than we are, and a chant effect would shut off all your post-board answers ...

---

I usually prefer Spellskite over Kira except when I find myself fighting against STP + Snapcaster. In that scenario I think Kira is better. That's why I run 2 spells kite / 1 Kira, but I don't think it makes a big difference.
I haven't tested against storm combo (ANT or DD) very much actually. I used to play 3 flusterstorm SB and never seemed enough to me. That's why I was suggesting Glen-Elendras. Storm decks can't defeat one in play and with Monolith and Sol lands the Faerie enters the battlefield really fast. It is also another Win Condition vs S&T. I think the best way to fight S&T is to forget milling anyone. Just tested for an hour with my bro and it is almost impossible to win pre and post board. :-(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 4n1m4

Hello everyone,

this is my first reply on The Source although I'm an old follower of the Painter's thread. I started considering the deck as a solid option for the next BoM and I want to look at your opinions in order to reach an almost perfect list :tongue: Actually, I think Jacob's 75 were a really nice starting point. After some heavy testing and minor changes, these are my 76! (lol):

4 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
3 Volcanic Island
2 Island
4 Seat of the Synod
2 Great Furnace
3 Ancient Tomb
1 City of Traitors
3 Grim Monolith
2 Mox Opal
4 Force of Will
2 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
2 Spellskite
3 Transmute Artifact
4 Brainstorm
2 Intuition
4 Goblin Welder
4 Painter's Servant
4 Grindstone
1 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Tezzeret the Seeker
2 Wurmcoil Engine


SB: 1 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 2 Nihil Spellbomb
SB: 1 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
SB: 2 Blood Moon
SB: 2 Llawan, Cephalid Empress
SB: 3 Divert
SB: 1 Ensnaring Bridge
SB: 3 Flusterstorm

Deck-building decissions worth to highlight:

1- Intuition:the card is great, but with all these deathrite shaman walking around I feel like a heavily dependant graveyard deck should not be the best option. Since 4x Welder are a must in the deck, I think 2 Intuition is just fair enough.

2- LED yes / LED no discussions: Tested with and without LED and this is my conclusion: the singleton is no worth it. 95% of times when you go Intuition for LED/Painter/Stone pile before welding you can go for LED/Painter/Monolith. Perhaps you can go to the second one even more times because of the Monolith don't need to be sacrified. Slots in the deck are really precious :-) and I found that LED just speeds up some MU like combo or super aggro and was just a tool to enable the all-in mode that normally it is not needed.

3 - Protection: 4 Force + 3 Pyro do not seem enough for me. Spellskite was just the MVP of the deck on the testing post sideboard. It's an artifact (so it can be transmuted if needed), protects from decay, block little monsters as Moongoose, Lackey, Thalia, etc... Deserves maindeck slots.

4 - Win Con: 100% agreed with running the 2xWurmcoils. I don't know if it's just me, but I draw one very often. (Same thing happens in Vintage with colossus, lol). They are not that hard to cast using Monoliths, and the card is just nuts against every "fair deck" not running Swords to Plowshares. Sometimes we are forced to win beatdown mode (facing needle, Emrakul, active qasalis, etc) and not beeing able to go Intuition for two Wurmcoils or Transmute Monolith into one just because the card is in our hand I think it is just not affordable.

Tezzeret: Sometimes it's broken, sometimes is just really hard to cast. These are the Intuitions slots and I think it is a really decent tutor and win con all together. It's usually a 2 turns clock against every combo deck playing Emrakul wich are the worst pairings of the deck. In my opinion and including Tezz gives you a lot more ways to win instead of the mill effect. The card also works amazing in the late game MU vs control decks such UW or BUG control decks.

Sideboard:

Did anyone tested Glen-Elendra Archmage? I don' t feel like Llawan must be anymore on the sideboard, I barely side them in. Glen-Elendra is great against any combo deck, and others with lots of spot removal.
To be honest I still haven't found a sideboard I feel confident with but I' m sure about one thing. 3xDivert are here to stay. Hymns are everywhere! :-(

---

I havent been keeping up with the current mana, but I have played Painter quite a bit in the MM era.

Concerning your list, as others said, you lack the speed necessary for a combo deck like this with so many SB cards in the maindeck. G1 the plan should always be to go for Painterstone, which gets hard with your list with so many conditional cards. In my list I also run Wurmcoil, but it is a conditional SB card for a couple of matchups.
However the biggest issue I have with your list, is that you have cut SDT! Its absolutly insane in this deck and should never be cut. Other powerful cards you are lacking is the full set of Intutions and the third Mox Opal. Mox is busted in this deck, but it requires the SDT's.
I agree with no LED with the TA / Grim package in the picture. Basically I removed 2 City of Traitor and the single LED from the MM reference list and added the three Grims.
Tezz was discussed a long time ago, but it is simply to expensive AND too random. Wurmcoil can always be tutored for in numerous ways, where Tezz has to be drawn.
The protection suite is indeed a little bit insufficient. Spellskite cannot be count towards it, as it is conditional and slow ( I still love it as a board card though!). Currently I run the 4 Fow, 2 Blast and 2 metagame cards, which are either Spell Pierce, Misdirection, Flusterstorm or the new 2 mana utility card I dont know the name off. There other possibilties too, but as I said, I am not that familiar with the current meta.

Note that TA allows us to go for an silverbullet sideboard.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by deadlock

I havent been keeping up with the current mana, but I have played Painter quite a bit in the MM era.

Concerning your list, as others said, you lack the speed necessary for a combo deck like this with so many SB cards in the maindeck. G1 the plan should always be to go for Painterstone, which gets hard with your list with so many conditional cards. In my list I also run Wurmcoil, but it is a conditional SB card for a couple of matchups.
However the biggest issue I have with your list, is that you have cut SDT! Its absolutly insane in this deck and should never be cut. Other powerful cards you are lacking is the full set of Intutions and the third Mox Opal. Mox is busted in this deck, but it requires the SDT's.
I agree with no LED with the TA / Grim package in the picture. Basically I removed 2 City of Traitor and the single LED from the MM reference list and added the three Grims.
Tezz was discussed a long time ago, but it is simply to expensive AND too random. Wurmcoil can always be tutored for in numerous ways, where Tezz has to be drawn.
The protection suite is indeed a little bit insufficient. Spellskite cannot be count towards it, as it is conditional and slow ( I still love it as a board card though!). Currently I run the 4 Fow, 2 Blast and 2 metagame cards, which are either Spell Pierce, Misdirection, Flusterstorm or the new 2 mana utility card I dont know the name off. There other possibilties too, but as I said, I am not that familiar with the current meta.

Note that TA allows us to go for an silverbullet sideboard.

---

Sounds like your list is pretty similar to mine. What do you have in mind as a silver bullet sideboard? I currently "only" run 1 Ensnaring Bridge and 1 Pithing Needle in the board, mostly for Sneak & Show decks. I would love to get some more ideas for useful, tutorable targets for problematic matchups.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TkDodo

Sounds like your list is pretty similar to mine. What do you have in mind as a silver bullet sideboard? I currently "only" run 1 Ensnaring Bridge and 1 Pithing Needle in the board, mostly for Sneak & Show decks. I would love to get some more ideas for useful, tutorable targets for problematic matchups.

---

My current board:
1 Needle
1 Bridge
1 Wurmcoil
3 GY hate (artifacts)
3 Spellskite
3 Blood Moon
3 Red Blast

As I said this may be a little bit outdated, but I still think that it is a very powerful and versatile board. It is important to not go overboard with the silverbullets. Also dont go too overboard with the alt-win cons, if painterstone win is so bad in your meta dont play this deck in the first place.

Do you guys agree that Misdirection is the next most powerful protection spell as a x2 in the maindeck after 4 FoW and 2 Blast? I did run Spell Pierce, but with Abrupt Decay in the picture, Misdirection looks superior.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by deadlock

My current board:
1 Needle
1 Bridge
1 Wurmcoil
3 GY hate (artifacts)
3 Spellskite
3 Blood Moon
3 Red Blast

---

lol my board is - 1 Wurmcoil (since I have 1 in the main), -1 Crypt (since I have 1 in the main) and -1 RedBlast for +3 Counterbalance, but else its exactly the same.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by deadlock

Do you guys agree that Misdirection is the next most powerful protection spell as a x2 in the maindeck after 4 FoW and 2 Blast? I did run Spell Pierce, but with Abrupt Decay in the picture, Misdirection looks superior.

---

Yes, I absolutely agree. I can't find the space for more protection at the moment, since I don't want to move the Crypt and the Wurmcoil to the board, but I could see myself going -1 FoW, + 1 Misdirection, especially if the meta is very BUG and Jund heavy.

So I decided to take this deck to GP Strasbourg after loosing in the first round of two trials on Friday with Esper. Also, I went to extra turns both times and I didn’t want to play 10 hours + without any breaks. After all, I didn’t see too much Show and Tell that day.

Here’s the list:

4 Painter's Servant
4 Goblin Welder
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Pyroblast
4 Transmute Artifact
3 Intuition
4 Grindstone
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Grim Monolith
2 Mox Opal
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Tormod's Crypt
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Polluted Delta
1 Flooded Strand
1 Great Furnace
4 Seat of the Synod
1 Mountain
2 Island
1 City of Traitors
3 Ancient Tomb
2 Volcanic Island
1 Academy Ruins
SB: 2 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 Blood Moon
SB: 3 Spellskite
SB: 1 Ensnaring Bridge
SB: 1 Pyroblast
SB: 1 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 3 Flusterstorm
SB: 1 Thorn of Amethyst

I switched the 3 Counterbalance with 3 Flusterstorm some time ago and never looked back. The Thorn of Amethyst was a last minute SB idea to have some more outs against Storm combo, which I expected a lot (rightfully so). The rest is pretty much as I had tested it the last couple of months.

In short, the deck was AMAZING. In a big tournament, the surprise factor was very important. People kept bad hands (not knowing what I was playing), chose wrong cards with discard (Brainstorm instead of Transmute Artifact against Storm G2 because he didn’t know I can get Thorn), made wrong plays (Playing Goyf T2 instead of something useful after I opened with Island -> Top, or going off unprotected T2 after I open with Great Furnace [I did have FoW]) and so on…

Of course I got super lucky, avoiding Show and Tell the whole day. So here is how I went:

R1: 2-1 against Armageddon Stax (Wurmcoil anyone?)
R2: 2-0 against Reanimator (5 virtual maindeck crypts)
R3: 0-2 against Esper (Jitte wins games)
R4: 2-0 against UWR Delver
R5: 2-1 against Dredge (Crypts + Welder)
R6: 2-1 against Jund (easy matchup)
R7: 2-0 against Jund
R8: 2-1 against Shardless BUG (very close match)
R9: 2-0 against Aluren (in 15 minutes, T3 kill both games)

Yep, that’s 8-1. Without byes.

R10: 0-2 against Maverick (with Revoker main)
R11: 0-2 against Punishing Maverick
R12: 2-0 against Junk
R13: 2-0 against Storm
R14: 0-2 against Shardless BUG
R15: 2-0 against TES
R16: 0-2 against UW Counterbalance with Helm of Awakening/SD.Top/Grapeshot combo

For a total of 11-5, putting me in 82nd place. I hate myself for not knowing that I could’ve drawn the last round into top 64. I really need to learn how that works :/

Apart from that I am super happy with my deck choice. I wasn’t prepared for Maverick though, so I was cold against Mother + Revoker, and both lists also had Leyline and Stony Silence in the board. The only thing I could think of is putting some Pyroclasms in the board, but maybe these are just corner cases.

I can provide more details if there is interest.

I'm in the process of building this deck. My only question is does a main board answer to Death Rite Shaman need to be put in? and if so Needle? Revoker? what would my options be if I was playing in a DRS heavy meta

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Omen

I'm in the process of building this deck. My only question is does a main board answer to Death Rite Shaman need to be put in? and if so Needle? Revoker? what would my options be if I was playing in a DRS heavy meta

---

I ran 2 Trinket Mages alongside 1 Pithing Needle, 1 Tormod's Crypt and 1 LED as the bullet targets. I absolutely love the Needle main because it can answer any problematic permanents G1. In my opinion, DRS isn't that much of a threat because it can't remove artifacts aside from Painter or Wurmcoil. If they don't play DRS, it still hits Jace, Wasteland(!), Pridemage, etc. If they want to Abrupt Decay it, that's completely fine. It is probably safe to run another in the side.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bignasty197

I ran 2 Trinket Mages alongside 1 Pithing Needle, 1 Tormod's Crypt and 1 LED as the bullet targets. I absolutely love the Needle main because it can answer any problematic permanents G1. In my opinion, DRS isn't that much of a threat because it can't remove artifacts aside from Painter or Wurmcoil. If they don't play DRS, it still hits Jace, Wasteland(!), Pridemage, etc. If they want to Abrupt Decay it, that's completely fine. It is probably safe to run another in the side.

---

I agree with Bignasty - don't know why we would care about DRS. He stops Welder to some extent, but that doesn't stop our combo. In general, decks running DRS are not our worst matchup anyway. In the GP, Round 12 against Junk I played through a DRS and a Pridemage with Welder and Painter in play by going end of turn Intuition for Painter, Painter, Stone. He was dead on the spot, independent of what he chose.
Also, at least in the early game, they need DRS to produce mana. If they leave him and one green open to stop Welder, they cannot deploy their board as much.

Needle is a good SB option, targeting everyting you said plus e.g. Sneak Attack. I don't agree with it being worth a mainboard slot though - sure, it's never dead, but I think the mainboard is all about speed and consistency of the combo. If you need "outs" to some random permanents they might have, just play more RedBlast effects, as they double as protection.
Loosing two matches to Revoker and other hatebears makes me wanna try out something like Pyrite Spellbomb - tutorable, colorless removal (Mother or Runes), recurrable with Welder that also cantrips if necessary sounds nice.

Regarding Trinket Mage: Do you play it over Transmute Artifact? If so, I don't think it's a good idea. Transmute has been the best card for me the whole weekend, getting stuff directly into play (or in the yard with Welder out to cheat on mana). To me, the Mage is rather expensive, can only get half of our combo and doesn't impact the game immediately. Technically, it is card advantage while TA is card disadvantage, however the ability to fetch what you need, independent of casting cost (allowing you to play a tutor SB with thing like Ensnaring Bridge) clearly outweights that. T2 TA into Crypt also happened quite some amount against GY decks, while T3 would have been too slow. The Grim Monolith -> Wurmcoil shenanigan is just icing on the cake. I would max out on TA before considering Trinket Mage.

@TKDodo- I play 4 Transmute Artifact already alongside 2 Intuition and 2 Trinket Mage. I never have consistency issues outside of the random mana screw. I understand that we are all about speed game 1, but I would rather have a main deck Needle instead of the 4th Grindstone. It may be personal preference, but I absolutely love Needle main. Name Pridemage and sit under a Bridge until you hit the combo, name Gempalm Incinerator vs Goblins so they can't pop Painter in response to a Grind, name Jace or Top vs those derpy Miracle decks and screw them over, naming Wasteland in almost any MU is amazing by itself. My point is that it isn't hard to find the 1-of and it can be game-breaking. I would rather have it and not need it than not have it and need it.

Hello everyone,

This is my first post on this thread and i have not read all the post so im not sure if someone has talk about playing on side some whipflare before. Our painters still alive and we can kill deathrite and is good against fast decks like elves. This weekend im gonna play 2 tournaments and im looking for the best list to play and do a report afterwars.
So im open to your suggestions XD:wink::wink:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TkDodo

So I decided to take this deck to GP Strasbourg after loosing in the first round of two trials on Friday with Esper. Also, I went to extra turns both times and I didn’t want to play 10 hours + without any breaks. After all, I didn’t see too much Show and Tell that day.

Here’s the list:

4 Painter's Servant
4 Goblin Welder
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Pyroblast
4 Transmute Artifact
3 Intuition
4 Grindstone
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Grim Monolith
2 Mox Opal
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Tormod's Crypt
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Polluted Delta
1 Flooded Strand
1 Great Furnace
4 Seat of the Synod
1 Mountain
2 Island
1 City of Traitors
3 Ancient Tomb
2 Volcanic Island
1 Academy Ruins
SB: 2 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 Blood Moon
SB: 3 Spellskite
SB: 1 Ensnaring Bridge
SB: 1 Pyroblast
SB: 1 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 3 Flusterstorm
SB: 1 Thorn of Amethyst

I switched the 3 Counterbalance with 3 Flusterstorm some time ago and never looked back. The Thorn of Amethyst was a last minute SB idea to have some more outs against Storm combo, which I expected a lot (rightfully so). The rest is pretty much as I had tested it the last couple of months.

In short, the deck was AMAZING. In a big tournament, the surprise factor was very important. People kept bad hands (not knowing what I was playing), chose wrong cards with discard (Brainstorm instead of Transmute Artifact against Storm G2 because he didn’t know I can get Thorn), made wrong plays (Playing Goyf T2 instead of something useful after I opened with Island -> Top, or going off unprotected T2 after I open with Great Furnace [I did have FoW]) and so on…

Of course I got super lucky, avoiding Show and Tell the whole day. So here is how I went:

R1: 2-1 against Armageddon Stax (Wurmcoil anyone?)
R2: 2-0 against Reanimator (5 virtual maindeck crypts)
R3: 0-2 against Esper (Jitte wins games)
R4: 2-0 against UWR Delver
R5: 2-1 against Dredge (Crypts + Welder)
R6: 2-1 against Jund (easy matchup)
R7: 2-0 against Jund
R8: 2-1 against Shardless BUG (very close match)
R9: 2-0 against Aluren (in 15 minutes, T3 kill both games)

Yep, that’s 8-1. Without byes.

R10: 0-2 against Maverick (with Revoker main)
R11: 0-2 against Punishing Maverick
R12: 2-0 against Junk
R13: 2-0 against Storm
R14: 0-2 against Shardless BUG
R15: 2-0 against TES
R16: 0-2 against UW Counterbalance with Helm of Awakening/SD.Top/Grapeshot combo

For a total of 11-5, putting me in 82nd place. I hate myself for not knowing that I could’ve drawn the last round into top 64. I really need to learn how that works :/

Apart from that I am super happy with my deck choice. I wasn’t prepared for Maverick though, so I was cold against Mother + Revoker, and both lists also had Leyline and Stony Silence in the board. The only thing I could think of is putting some Pyroclasms in the board, but maybe these are just corner cases.

I can provide more details if there is interest.

---

This list has some spiciness in it. It looks pretty similar to my current list though I am not running Top at all nor am I running Academy Ruins. Looking at your list i think i want to cut 1 intuition and 1 of my 3 Wurmcoil (I would never go below 2, intuitioning and guarantee-ing that one goes to the yard has been relevant too many times) and add in 2 Tops, it has been awhile since I played them and with all the Hymns running around my meta, being able to have an extra card in my hand that can't be discarded seems good.

How good have you found academy ruins to be? I have sideboarded it in the past, but having a 5 colorless land has been rough for me in the past, especially with 4 transmute. Thoughts?

Now onto the sideboard. How do you like Blood Moon/when do you bring them in? Also is thorn better than trinisphere as our "tinker target" against storm?

I appreciate how much people still work on this deck, I really think this is one of the best decks, when people are unprepared. Sadly, if it gets a lot more popular, it will get harder to play since a lot of the power comes from opponents play mistakes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by merfolkotpt

This list has some spiciness in it. It looks pretty similar to my current list though I am not running Top at all nor am I running Academy Ruins. Looking at your list i think i want to cut 1 intuition and 1 of my 3 Wurmcoil (I would never go below 2, intuitioning and guarantee-ing that one goes to the yard has been relevant too many times) and add in 2 Tops, it has been awhile since I played them and with all the Hymns running around my meta, being able to have an extra card in my hand that can't be discarded seems good.

How good have you found academy ruins to be? I have sideboarded it in the past, but having a 5 colorless land has been rough for me in the past, especially with 4 transmute. Thoughts?

Now onto the sideboard. How do you like Blood Moon/when do you bring them in? Also is thorn better than trinisphere as our "tinker target" against storm?

I appreciate how much people still work on this deck, I really think this is one of the best decks, when people are unprepared. Sadly, if it gets a lot more popular, it will get harder to play since a lot of the power comes from opponents play mistakes.

---

Top is awesome in many ways. Against TES, I floated a Flusterstorm on top and countered his Tutor. You can use it as a drawing engine with Welder (which I did a lot). You can open with Island->Top and have people play horrible. You can avoid drawing top in your next drawstep if you stack the activisions correctly, effectively drawing you two cards. Sol Land into Top plus activision is very strong. I also transmuted it away some times, which is nice because it has CMC one and get you a Grindstone for free and a Painter for just 1 more.

Academy Ruins is great in theory, but I don't ever remember it being relevant. People also waste it a lot ;) Now here's the thing: I used to play 20 lands, 2 Moxes and 3 Monolith's for quite some time, which is sufficient mana in general. However, I wanted to have an additinonal 21st land in the maindeck, mainly because of RUG. Of course, it's another non-basic, but we die to Wasteland anyway, because we will have an artifact or sol land in play most of the time. The extra land just gave me some security to find a mana source reliably when brainstorming or toping. It also being a utility land (Welder no5) is also great. Now with the 21 land configuration I almost always borded out the basic mountain against non-wasteland decks (Esper, Miracles, Combo etc). It is the worst land in the deck, but necessary to cast Welder and REBs against RUG reliably. So if you are going to play 21 lands, the extra land does not need to be color producing.
Regarding TA: Getting to UU by T2 is not needed most of the time, since you won't have anything to transmute away. If you want to play a Grim Monolith first, you will need until T3 or T4 anyway to cast TA. By then, UU should not be a problem. I did however move from 3 Seat of the Synod, 2 Great Furnace to a 4-1 configuration almost exclusively because of TA.

Blood Moon: THE best SB card for me of the tournament. The reason why Jund is an "easy" matchup. I won at least 3 post board matches due to Blood Moon. In one of them, I even had my Painters extracted. It didn't matter, my opponent wasn't casting anything else ever again. Decks like Jund or BUG need to get things on the board to pressure us with a clock, so they are not afraid to tap out in the early turns. A well timed blood moon instantly closes the game against them, because we normally don't give them enough time to find their 1-of basic land or their Deathrite etc.

Against Storm, of course Trinisphere would be ideal. However, the 1 mana makes a big difference when transmuting it, since the plan is getting it on turn 3. If you transmute an artifact land, you can do it turn 3 with a Sol land or a mox. If you transmute a top, you can do it turn 3 with any 3 lands. The problem is not being dead until then and deploying your own combo. If I'm not dead by turn 4, chances are that I disrupted my opponent enough so that I can now transmute for the win rather than 3Sphere.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TkDodo

Top is awesome in many ways. Against TES, I floated a Flusterstorm on top and countered his Tutor. You can use it as a drawing engine with Welder (which I did a lot). You can open with Island->Top and have people play horrible. You can avoid drawing top in your next drawstep if you stack the activisions correctly, effectively drawing you two cards. Sol Land into Top plus activision is very strong. I also transmuted it away some times, which is nice because it has CMC one and get you a Grindstone for free and a Painter for just 1 more.

Academy Ruins is great in theory, but I don't ever remember it being relevant. People also waste it a lot ;) Now here's the thing: I used to play 20 lands, 2 Moxes and 3 Monolith's for quite some time, which is sufficient mana in general. However, I wanted to have an additinonal 21st land in the maindeck, mainly because of RUG. Of course, it's another non-basic, but we die to Wasteland anyway, because we will have an artifact or sol land in play most of the time. The extra land just gave me some security to find a mana source reliably when brainstorming or toping. It also being a utility land (Welder no5) is also great. Now with the 21 land configuration I almost always borded out the basic mountain against non-wasteland decks (Esper, Miracles, Combo etc). It is the worst land in the deck, but necessary to cast Welder and REBs against RUG reliably. So if you are going to play 21 lands, the extra land does not need to be color producing.
Regarding TA: Getting to UU by T2 is not needed most of the time, since you won't have anything to transmute away. If you want to play a Grim Monolith first, you will need until T3 or T4 anyway to cast TA. By then, UU should not be a problem. I did however move from 3 Seat of the Synod, 2 Great Furnace to a 4-1 configuration almost exclusively because of TA.

Blood Moon: THE best SB card for me of the tournament. The reason why Jund is an "easy" matchup. I won at least 3 post board matches due to Blood Moon. In one of them, I even had my Painters extracted. It didn't matter, my opponent wasn't casting anything else ever again. Decks like Jund or BUG need to get things on the board to pressure us with a clock, so they are not afraid to tap out in the early turns. A well timed blood moon instantly closes the game against them, because we normally don't give them enough time to find their 1-of basic land or their Deathrite etc.

Against Storm, of course Trinisphere would be ideal. However, the 1 mana makes a big difference when transmuting it, since the plan is getting it on turn 3. If you transmute an artifact land, you can do it turn 3 with a Sol land or a mox. If you transmute a top, you can do it turn 3 with any 3 lands. The problem is not being dead until then and deploying your own combo. If I'm not dead by turn 4, chances are that I disrupted my opponent enough so that I can now transmute for the win rather than 3Sphere.

---

So I noticed a couple things, first, it appears that your Academy ruins slot is my LED slot, which I wouldn't cut. So I think for now that means no academy ruins in my deck. Also I think i am running more basics and fewer artifact lands (maybe -1 +1) which has been pretty relevant in terms of beating wastelands. All the other suggestions seem spot on though.

http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazin...y/feature/248f

Mox Opal just got a bit better...

T1 Great Furnace, Mox Opal, Grindstone. - Float Mox Opal Mana, cast second Mox Opal, Cast Painter's Servant. Drop LED. Crack it. Activate Grindstone. GG!!!

I think I will need to buy all the world stocks of Mox Opal!!!!!

OK, I'm back to working on this deck again. Nothing related at all to the legend rule, but it's a nice bonus come mid-July. Part of the reason why I think this deck is good to pick up right now for the SCG metagame and come mid-July is due to the maindeck REB. Aside from that, it's still a good deck against mid-rangey 3c decks that try to out grind each other out.

Key cards that will be of importance (and mostly SB however):
Spellskite
Ensnaring Bridge
Goblin Welder
Wurmcoil Engine

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by merfolkotpt

So I noticed a couple things, first, it appears that your Academy ruins slot is my LED slot, which I wouldn't cut. So I think for now that means no academy ruins in my deck. Also I think i am running more basics and fewer artifact lands (maybe -1 +1) which has been pretty relevant in terms of beating wastelands. All the other suggestions seem spot on though.

---

Yes, I remember running LED in that slot as well. As a 1-of it seemed like a rather wasted slot to me, because you will rarely have it when you really need the 3 mana boost. It is nice to go Intuition -> Painter/Stone/LED with active Welder out, but in that spot you are not likely to loose anyway. With the new legend rule, I'd rather play another Mox Opal. We have no problems reaching Metalcraft, so it's a really solid acceleration which turns into a Lotus Petal if you have multiples.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Koby

OK, I'm back to working on this deck again. Nothing related at all to the legend rule, but it's a nice bonus come mid-July. Part of the reason why I think this deck is good to pick up right now for the SCG metagame and come mid-July is due to the maindeck REB. Aside from that, it's still a good deck against mid-rangey 3c decks that try to out grind each other out.

Key cards that will be of importance (and mostly SB however):
Spellskite
Ensnaring Bridge
Goblin Welder
Wurmcoil Engine

---

Looking forward to your testing results. REBs MD are very good, unfortunately I haven't found the slots to play more than two. Also, with the possibility of Emrakul decks decreasing because of the new legend rule (maybe, idk. At least they can't play Karakas anymore) this deck could be a really powerful meta choice.

I remember Caleb's article about U/R Painter:

http://www.channelfireball.com/home/...he-world-blue/

In it, he explained why Mox Opal is awesome in this deck:

Quote:

---

[...] the deck has Mox Opal [...]. In Legacy, spinning a Sensei's Divining Top on turn one is one of the more broken plays possible, and Painter can make that play between one in five games on the play and one in four on the draw. In tournament play, it’s more slanted toward one in four, as the deck can expect to be on the draw for game two.

The Moxen also increase the chance of going turn one Goblin Welder, turn two Intuition. This leads to fetching a pile of Grindstone, Painter’s Servant, and Lion’s Eye Diamond and welding one into play, then untapping and welding another into play and casting the missing piece from hand for the kill.

---

With the new rule, Mox Opal could be a 4-of, which would give the deck more acceleration, and even more broken T1 Sensei's Diving Top.