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I agree Flusterstorm is great too, but the purpose of it is different than hand disruption. Flusterstorm is great at fighting 1 for 1 counterspells like FoW, Pact, Counterspell, etc. If you're trying to combat opposing Flusterstorms though, I think hand disruption is much better than having your own Flusterstorms.Quote:
Originally Posted by alwaysdrawing
I'm not sure I see where you're coming from. Most of the time Flusterstorm is Last Word against Force of Will, Counterspell, etc, so we're agreed there. But it's also usually just as good at countering opposing Flusterstorms - your copies just target their copies. Sometimes they have enough to pay for some and turn Flusterstorm into Force Spike, but that's not incredibly often in my experience.Quote:
Originally Posted by Esper3k
I like hand disruption because it's versatile, but I think Flusterstorm and Duress complement each other to turn the rough combo matchup around.
Strictly speaking, Duress is always better than Flusterstorm at handling opposing Flusterstorms. It will always deal with Flusterstorm for 1 mana. Flusterstorm requires at least 1 mana and then 1 mana for each mana your opponent can spend. The tradeoff is Duress's utility in situations where Flusterstorm has no effect (against a Goblin Charbelcher) and where playing your disruption preemptively (like against Storm or Reanimator) might matter has to be weighed against requiring you to play more fetchlands and then duals and/or non-blue basics in your 75.Quote:
Originally Posted by phazonmuant
Sure, your copies can target their copies, but if they have mana to pay for some, that means that's just more mana we have to have on our turn going off.Quote:
Originally Posted by phazonmuant
Think of the tempo matchups. Often, they're going to be dropping a threat on T1 and probably on T2, then not tapping out anymore for the rest of the game. If they have 3 mana when we go off, that's just more mana we have to have open to deal with their Flusterstorms (since they just pay for some copies of ours). If we tap out to pay for Flusterstorms or to cast Flusterstorm, that opens us up to their Dazes as well.
I do play both Flusterstorm and hand disruption, so I have both options, but I've been liking the hand disruption as a way to just straight up deal with Flusterstorm for B (as well as the applications it has against faster combo decks).
Discard is better IMO than flusterstorm for a couple reasons... In just about every situation actually. Discard gives you information that you didn't have before. Information is important, especially when you are playing combo, even more so when you are playing with pact.
Situation 2: let's say your opponent tries to counter your duress, you most likely got the card you wanted anyways.
Situation 3: let's say your opponent tries to counter your duress with fluster or spell pierce. Pay the mana and go off next turn. Thank them for the card advantage. (You play discard on the turn you go off)
Situation 4: your opponent is playing death and taxes, and their only outs are to play that t2 Thalia to slow you down. You can't counter it with flusterstorm, but you can discard it on t1 before they play it.
There are probably more
On a separate note has anyone noticed that this deck has some of the best flavor text?
Cunning wish (judge)
Flavor Text: The foolish wish for that which they desire. The cunning wish for that which they require.
Omniscience
Flavor Text:
"The things I once imagined would be my greatest achievements were only the first steps toward a future I can only begin to fathom."
—Jace Beleren
Pact of negation
Flavor Text:
Those who expect betrayal at every turn are seldom disappointed.
Brainstorm
Flavor Text:
"I see more than others do because I know where to look."
—Saprazzan vizier
Show and tell
Flavor Text:
At the academy, "show and tell" too often becomes "run and hide."
Enter the infinite
Flavor Text:
"Don't just have an idea—have all of them."
—Niv-Mizzet
It does indeed. I'll be taking my deck to its first tournament tonight, going with the LabMan kill and no discard. Looking very much forward to see how much power this thing has.Quote:
Originally Posted by apple713
I have done some testing on MTGO confirming:
-3 or 4 are the sol lands out of 19-20 lands
-the deck must stay Mono or quasi-Mono (e.g. Thoughtsieze + Underground Seas) to curve to 5 as quick as possible.
Worth testing Boseiju vs Defensive Grids and replacing a couple of the zero counters (out to 7) with 1 CMC counters.
I am experimenting:
A) replacing SB Slaughter Pact with Beast Within (with 2 tropical island MD). Kind of 50/50.
In the Mono version you have not swamps/USeas, hence Beast Within > SB Slaughter Pact in most cases.
B) One Boseiju MD and 1 SB as they are critical for a waiting game: some players board out wastelands/ stifle when they see a Mono deck.
Boseiju seems like a good idea but its not and the reason is because you don't really care if omni or dream halls resolvebecause what you really need to resolve are the spells that allow you to cast enter the Infinite or cunning wish into intuition into something.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rush80
I am completely confused by this response...Quote:
Originally Posted by apple713
Spells that allow me to resolve infinite or cunning... hmmm, tuff one.Quote:
Originally Posted by apple713
Oh, right. You mean like Omni and Dreamhalls?
Went 2-2 last night at our local.
Gave the last round to my teammate who needs points lol So we didn't fight.
Only lose came to Miracles, after sideboarding my God that much up is super horrible. No amount of Sculpting can prepare you for REBs, Flusterstorms and Force of Will.
You also have to Force the Counterbalances they play and Entreat the Angels if the game goes long so you can't really pack up for the big Counter War.
Boseiju only works for Show & Tell, btw. Doesn't do anything if you're casting Dream Halls with it...
Managed to go 3-2, losing to Tin Fins (2-0, game 2 going to turn 18 where I had 3 Omniscience, a Leyline plus 11 lands in play and never saw a single drawspell past the first 2 turns... yeah) and Esper Deathblade with Meddling Mages in 3 games. Won vs Miracles, Team America and a non-Pox discard deck. Deck seems very strong, but I really need more practice playing against Thoughtseize decks.
In my experience, the counter war starts when attempting to resolve Omni/Dream Halls.Quote:
Originally Posted by apple713
Once resolved it, you have quite an advantage.
On a side note Rapid Hybridization is stronger than Slaughter Pact for a MonoU shell.
I wonder if anybody has tried adding 2-3 Eureka and replacing 1-2 counters whilst keeping 2 DH in MD.
E.g. something like:
Eureka + SnT + Boseiju + Omniscience
You gain one turn with Eureka vs Dream Hall. I acknowledge the benefit of the dual role of DH.
The nice bit of Omni deck (and HiveMind and Painter) vs traditional Snt (+ eureka) shell is that you win before the opponent main phase.
These days and possibly going forward makes a huge difference. Hence Eureka has its drawbacks but it is an additional cheaper enabler.
As I look to the historical Legacy tournaments reports I see little usage of Eureka + SnT.
I wonder if anybody has done some testing.
No it's not. It costs 1. 1 > 0. Particularly given that the sideboard strategy against hatebears usually brings in any 1, 2, and 3 cc spells to leave Slaughter Pact in the sb so Cunning Wish remains 3-4 copies of a removal spell for 3.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rush80
On the topic of Boseiju, in addition to taking a full turn to come online, it doesn't confer counterspell immunity to anything other than Show and Tell and Cunning Wish (and the 1-of Intuition, if you play it). Boseiju only grants its affect to Sorcery and Instant spells. In practical terms, only allowing you to resolve SnT or CWish (pre-Omni) means that you must have Omniscience, and it just moves the fight to your draw spell. This only matters in practice if you have spare Cunning Wishes that you want to turn into Pact/Flusterstorm but no ability to wait a turn to cast Wish normally. Given that Boseiju costs a card, you need to be holding 2 Wishes that you couldn't previously cast for Boseiju to really be worth it over a random piece of disruption.
[QUOTE=emidln;735518]No it's not. It costs 1. 1 > 0. Particularly given that the sideboard strategy against hatebears usually brings in any 1, 2, and 3 cc spells to leave Slaughter Pact in the sb so Cunning Wish remains 3-4 copies of a removal spell for 3.
If you are under a resolved omniscience it is irrelevant but under DH a blue card like RH may matter.
In the more general case you are without any enchantment on the board, you may play Rapid Hybridization at the end of opponent turn and go off next turn whilst with Slaughter Pact you cannot due to upkeep cost.
For example this allow you to go around an opposing resolved Ethersworn Canonist.
In your example, you can just Slaughter Pact the Canonist on your turn, then go off...Quote:
Originally Posted by Rush80
Also, a much more common situation is having to fight through a Thalia where the mana costs matter.
Casting Slaughter Pact on your own turn was the obvious line. It slipped my mind that someone suggesting Pongify might not understand that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Esper3kAlso, a much more common situation is having to fight through a Thalia where the mana costs matter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rush80