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That meta makes my eye twitch. I grew up in Rochester and it always had such a great MTG community when I was a kid, it's sad to see it so homogenized.
Can you post your scapewish list? Why not Golgari Charm over Pyroclasm? Pyroclasm doesn't kill TNN...
Pyroclasm doesn't kill TNN, but Charm doesn't kill Deathrite Shaman or Monastery Swiftspear or flipped Delver.
The list I played was:
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Sakura-Tribe Elder
2 Wood Elves
1 Eternal Witness
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
2 Thragtusk
1 Primeval Titan
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Burning Wish
3 Scapeshift
2 Abrupt Decay
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wooded Foothills
2 Bayou
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Mountain
4 Taiga
2 Stomping Ground
3 Badlands
2 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
Sideboard:
3 Red Elemental Blast
3 Slaughter Games
2 Thoughtseize
1 Pyroclasm
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Massacre
1 Innocent Blood
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Scapeshift
EDIT AGAIN: I might as well post my side boarding for the TWO matchups I played.
UR Delver: -1 Witness, -1 Wood Elves, +2 REB. Brought in the 3rd REB in favor of a Wish when my UWR opponent Meddling Mage'd my Wish.
Elves: -2 Thrag, -1 Titan, -1 Witness, -1 Wood Elves, +2 Games, +2 Thoughtseize, +1 Massacre
Proposed changes:
-1 Thragtusk, +1 Obstinate Baloth
-1 Eternal Witness, +1 Dualcaster Mage
-1 ??, +1 Dualcaster Mage
Also considering -1 Swamp, +1 Kessig Wolf Run
SB:
-1 Wolf Run (to the main deck), -1 REB, +2 Pyroclasm
Charm is good and all but since you're playing it basically as Shrivel, I'd much rather have Pyroclasm. Since you often need to kill 2-toughness dudes, and against elves you really want to cast it on turn 2/3 and it's easier to keep a hand with red+green than it is to keep one with black+green, in my experience. When I last had 3x Clasm in my sideboard, I found it was sometimes helpful to have access to it twice in the same game against Deathblade, for example, because it kills Stoneforges (yet another thing Golgari Charm can't do!). Having Innocent Blood, Deluge and Massacre to kill TNNs, plus being able to just ignore them sometimes, I don't feel like I need more answers to that card. It's not like there are a ton of them in the general metagame anyway, and most of the decks playing it are pretty good match ups to begin with.
EDIT: Rochester still has a great Magic community, but a lot of the regulars who I consider the higher tier of players weren't there, and a lot of people came from the surrounding area with Elves. But yeah it was super homogeneous, the top 8 was me, UWR Delver, the 2 Elves players who beat me in the swiss, and 4 UR delver. I was praying for the delver players to beat the Elves so I could smash the rest of the top 8, but it was unfortunately not to be.
@MrIggins: Gratz for your solid performance (still a weird meta...)
@Scapeshift:
Dualcaster Mage? Is he good enough? I am looking forward to some test results.
In the past i gained my Nic Fit experience with Punishing Fit and BUG Pod, so i thought about "Sorcery-Stuff" in Scapeshift. Has anyone considered the following spells?
-Far Wanderings (Wishtarget with "Treshhold" to gain more than enough lands to scape or zenith into titan the following turn)
-Kodama's Reach (Isn't it better as a 2nd Wood Elves, sure it can't block, and can't be tutored but it brings "2" lands)
-Primal Growth ("Kicker" Explorer!, Wood Elves, Huntmaster Token, Thragtusk etc. to profit?)
I still test with the new Titania and try to curve out a list, lifegain is needed vs UR Delver but Thragtusk seems to slow (he is solid enough, but sometimes it needs backup to ramp into him), so Baloth or even Kitchen Finks can curve out the deck smothly. I don't feel a 2nd Huntmaster is good enough in the current meta.
Maybe:
1 Finks
1 Baloth
1 Huntmaster
1 Thragtusk
All seems solid enough against fast UR Delver Decks and we can chain into them for huge lifegains. Sadly Thragtusk is the only one, that performes well enough against Terminus&Swords. With less Spell Pierce, Batterskull is also an option, but it can't be tutored and does "nothing" the turn it comes into play. I hope Wizards print one more "leaves the battlefield and profit" Creature for Nic Fit.
Compared to my other Nic Fit Brews, my current Scapeshift version has 2-3 Carpet of Flowers and i like it at the moment, with all the "Treasure Cruise, Play Blue" Decks, it seems solid enough again. Thoughts?
Carpet of flowers is used for:Quote:
Originally Posted by MD.Ghost
1) replacing veteran explorer against "blue" control matchup (mainly blade and miracle decks)
2) overcoming the land denial & taxing counter strategies against blue tempo.deck.
I don't know if it is still a good SB card in regards to what you are trying to do: lowering your curve.
Playing 1 Baloth, 1 Huntmaster, 1 Thrag, 1 Finks might be enough to "contain" tempo.deck WITHOUT needing carpet of flowers.
Lowering the curve also helps you versus control matchup because you are improving your clock. For example against miracle, I know that with scapefit I am not in the driver seat until I resolve a pernicious deed & a beatstick. Paying less mana for a 3/2 or a 4/4 right away instead of waiting for landing a Thragtusk can only be good.
Anyway, this is only theorycrafting.
@whole thread:
I like the Scape list posted a page back.
The mana base seems horrible (and I'm not talking about modern lands), but I think we should keep few ideas for thoughts:
- No Scapeshift MD -> Why the hell didn't I think about it sooner? I hate having it in my opening hand (mulligan) and I hate drawing it usually before T5. Between valakut & scapeshift this is 4 cards (odds are approximatively around 40 % to have at least 1 of these 4 cards in an opening hand) that I don't want to see in my opening hand. Lowering the count to only 2 valakut immediately reads less mulligan.
- 7 discard & Bob -> This is borrowed from Punishing Jund. And this is clearly one of the biggest strenght of P.Jund as a T2 Bob protected by a T1 discard can single-handedly take over a game. Not to mention that Bob must be answered which most likely will drag out some counters & removal to take care of him, leaving the path "cleared" for one of our bigger threats (Huntmaster, etc..)
This direct consequence has a lot of impact as we are advancing in the midgame. Before, opponents use to "save" their removal(s) (not always on purpose, btw) mainly because, logically, you are not going to spend a bolt, a decay on a veteran explorer. During lots of game, I had to make the choice between removal & counter with a cabal on the stack. The obvious and necessary choice was to go after the FOW and not after the removal, thus, the first proper beatstick was, unfortunately, dead on sight. This configuration also improve significantly our combo MU. Having access to 7 discard effects MD is a lot more of disruption in the first place.
Obviously, this setup has a lot of impacts on the way we are playing scapefit:
- Less "I win" topdecks because of less scapeshift in the deck
- A mana base & creature list to be entirely reworked ->creatures that help ramping have to go and be replaced by impactful ones.
- A completely new sideboard save the inherent staples due to burning wish.
My gut feeling is that the biggest cost of this evolution is that we might get into a more control & grindy territory with a final combo "uppercut" for a great KO. The goal is the same, but this path is maybe more balanced/consistent and less subject to "variance".
To be investigated before drawing any conclusions.
Sidenotes:
- Bob or Sylvan Library with any number of tops ?
@MrIggins: Congrats on your finish! Glad to hear someone else is running scapeshift and crushin it. Question, Do you feel that Kitchen Finks is necessary against UR Delver? Or is Huntermaster, Baloth, and Thragtusk ok? Also, how did you like the 3rd scapeshift main? For me, running 2 main and 4 BW seemed like plenty.
Thoughts on Dualcaster Mage (*Disclaimer, Arianrhod discussed this with me through PM and most of these ideas come from him):
It provides something to take advantage of multiple red-source draws, which do sometimes happen.
It provides protection for Scapeshift
It provides generic utility -- this is probably the biggest category.
Copy EoT Entreat for lethal
Copy Treasure Cruise
Copy Decay/Bolt/etc netting a 2/2 + removal spell
Copy Brainstorm / Ponder is still perfectly fine
Copy Thoughtseize either out of combo decks or when holding priority with your own to double Seize + clock
Copy Scapeshift at 7 lands in order to kill someone at greater than 20 life total (previously you would need to wait until 8 lands to do this, which sometimes didn't happen)
With that said, I think DCM is at least a 2-of in the deck. My thoughts are now, since we are adding 2 cards that are not tutorable with GSZ, that we can shave 1 GSZ to make room.
Here is a list I am currently working on:
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Wood Elves
2 Dualcaster Mage
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Obstinate Baloth
1 Thragtusk
1 Primeval Titan
2 Thoughtseize
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Burning Wish
3 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Scapeshift
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Sylvan Library
2 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Verdant Catacomb
1 Wooded Foothills
4 Taiga
3 Badland
2 Bayou
2 Stomping Ground
3 Forest
2 Mountain
1 Swamp
2 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
1 Kessig Wolf Run
Sideboard:
2 Pyroblast
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Carpet of Flowers
1 Slaughter Games
1 Ruination
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Pyroclasm
1 Innocent Blood
1 Thoughtseize
1 Scapeshift
1 Massacre
if Scapewish is going to put in a Dualcaster Mage, it might be a reasonable option to put a single Twinflame or Heat Shimmer in the board, since they go infinite with him and are Wish targets. I could see myself using it as a backup plan in cases where we encounter Leyline of Sanctity, Meddling Mage on Scapeshift, or just have too many Mountains out to get to lethal / our opponents have too much life. It gives us access to yet another ticking clock, which is handy at times. I've been testing with one main and another in the sideboard, and I'm pretty happy so far.
I've also cut Primeval Titan. I dunno about you guys, but I've found that he is awful unless the game goes absurdly long, and it's always disappointing to have him in your opening hand. He's also pretty vulnerable to removal considering that he costs 6. A lot of the time his trigger is awkward anyway, since if you strip too many lands out of your deck your Scapeshifts all become blank which is really worrying.
As well as the list above, DCM is also pretty spicy with Cabal Therapy- you can copy the Therapy and then sac DCM to it afterwards for three activations, which is pretty scary. He's also pretty scary for Shardless BUG what with the whole 'copy your Visions' thing.
RE: Everyone
I've been happy with the 3rd Scapeshift in the main deck, it makes it easier to find them when you need them and it also makes it more possible to jam them into counterspells until the opponent runs out. Like if I know my opponent has a Force, I can on 7 mana go Scapeshift, get it countered, Wish for another one. If they have another Force, well, I found another Scapeshift so you're dead. That sort of thing. It's not strictly needed and I may trim the 4th for one of my Dualcaster Mages since he effectively doubles up on it anyway+additional utility. Having it hand isn't so bad, I've found, as it lets you use your Wishes for utility and staying alive.
I really don't like Kitchen Finks. It does have the utility of eating a bolt and still blocking, which is fine and all, but Huntmaster gets to do that too and he also applies a real amount of pressure to control decks and is a legitimate clock vs the unfair decks. While he has gotten a bit weaker recently (why we're on 2 not 3), it's not so much that I want to go down to 1 because he's such a powerful last threat and can still just take over games against a lot of fair decks.
On Primeval Titan, Kevin and I had the thought of cutting him before last year's GP and then it won a bunch of games that literally no other card in magic would have. It does require planning ahead a little bit to win the game with a resolved Prime Time, but if you do set yourself up to start triggering Valakuts on his first attack step, it's hard to lose the game with the card. Even if it doesn't get to attack, suddenly your Wood Elves are now also Lightning Bolts. We have enough mountains that unless it's REALLY late into the game (in which case you probably got both Valakuts off of the Titan) you can probably still Shift for 18, or even do a "smaller" shift where you get the 2nd Valakut plus all the mountains in your deck and do 12-18 damage with just those. I am not looking to cut this guy, especially if I'm adding the main deck Wolf Run.
I don't hate the Twinflame suggestion, the problem is where to fit it. It's not like the card has zero utility anyway, copying a Thragtusk is reasonably big game, etc. I will probably test that, actually, because it seems like a pretty powerful option, if I can find a cut. If I never have a spot where Wishing for it is right, then we'll move on. Twinflame costing 2 mana makes it quite a bit more reasonable than some of the spicy 1-of Wish targets we've played throughout the years but I'm still not convinced. We will see.
Wait, DCM + Twinflame = infinite? If so, does anyone have a link where people have discussed that ruling. For some reason I'm thinking it can't work because of the timing of Twinflame being on the stack and DCM triggered ability....for the copies I mean....right?
Just looked it up, there definitely has to be another creature out on the battlefield first which is the original target for twinflame.
Right, you Twinflame your other creature, and then you Dualcaster the Twinflame and make another Dualcaster with the copy, etc, etc. They do not go infinite just by themselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by bryanzoll
You have to have another target for Twinflame to go off, yeah- it's why I was thinking of playing Heat Shimmer instead since it doesn't have to target your creatures you can cast it a bit more reliably. An extra mana is pretty awkward, though.
Next door:Quote:
Originally Posted by bryanzoll
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...alcaster-Combo
It seems you need a target + Twinflame + DCM (5 Mana, or 7 with Wish the same turn, which also enable Scape).
@bryanzoll:
Thanks for sharing your thoughts about Dualcaster Mage. It is right, that Scapeshift has a) enough red mana b) more than enough mana to abuse this little boy some way.
I will try him out on Cockatrice. What i like is (most of) your list with him, 2 Thoughtseizes Main provides some nice extra protection with or without the red mage.
My snap changes would be:
-Thrun, the Last Troll
-Sylvan Library
+1 Sensei /+1 Diabolic Intend
+1 Creature: Ooze, Kitchen Finks, Courser of Kruphix / +1 Garruk Relentless (kill stuff, tutor stuff, spam stuff etc.)
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Sakura-Tribe Elder
3 Dualcaster Mage
2 Wood Elves
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Obstinate Baloth
1 Thragtusk
1 Primeval Titan
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Burning Wish
2 Scapeshift
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Sylvan Library
2 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Taiga
2 Stomping Grounds
3 Badlands
2 Bayou
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wooded Foothills
3 Forest
1 Swamp
2 Mountain
2 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
1 Kessig Wolf Run
SB:
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Abrupt Decay
3 Slaughter Games
2 Thoughtseize
1 Massacre
1 Scapeshift
1 Innocent Blood
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Pyroclasm
1 Twinflame
----
That's where I'm at for the moment. I'm going to test Twinflame at Mythic this weekend and see if it happens // what random utility it actually offers. On paper it seems strong, but I'm not sure how it will be in practice.
I am hoping to find room for the Eternal Witness, though. Haven't figured out what I'm cutting for it yet. Witness + Twinflame forms a pretty strong loop, especially if you have things around to Strive it on.
I THINK that Twinflame is better than Heat Shimmer because it costs 1 less and can copy multiple things mid-late -- both of which are a little better for its "utility" side. Shimmer is likely the better pure 'combo' option, though.
My experiences with Thrun and Sylvan library were both so great there's no way I would cut them.Quote:
Originally Posted by MD.Ghost
Thoughts on Thrun:
-Can't be countered
-Can Regenerated
-Excellent synergy with Kessig Wolf Run
-Blanks all forms of removal outside of Terminus
I ran a 2/1 splits between top and library based upon arianrhod's recommendation and it was solid. The games where I had library, it was excellent, it gave me several instances where paying 4 life for an extra card was relevant.
Thoughts on Thoughtseize Main:
-Improves combo matchup significantly
-Can help out in a lot of other instances where thoughtseize is good enough to stall us to where the deck takes over
-Allows for a ridiculous line of play:
-Turn 1: Thoughtseize
-Turn 2: Cabal Therapy, Veteran Explorer, flashback Cabal Therapy
Another Abzan list. (FYI: this is brainstorming, nothing is tested)
This list came about from my frustration of fighting against Miracles (which is rampant in my meta), specifically against terminus. I wanted to have a threat package that was relatively resistant to terminus, and the best stuff I could think of was planeswalkers and batterskull. If you are playing batterskull, might as well be playing stoneforge, and elspeth is great at everything, including playing with equipment, so the rest of the list kinda forms from there.
Most of the card choices are standard/obvious, deed is omitted because it has too much unwanted splash damage in this list, although there should be some in the sideboard I think. The bomb of choice (other than batterskull) is sigarda, because she is GSZ-friendly and she can voltron up and kill the opponent in one shot. The preferred sword of x&y is fire/ice, mostly to sneak through TNN.
Most aggro matchups should be easy, and probably a joke after SB. SB should have some 2-3 graveyard/combo help, a few utility cards (probably GZ targets) and the rest things that are good against TNN/miracles. Usually in Abzan Nic Fit I don't worry about TNN, but since there is no deeds maindeck, I assume he will be less of a pushover. (FYI: current sideboard was just mashed together, probably subpar)
I'm wondering if Raking Canopy has any merit as a sideboard card. Reasoning: one in play turns off all entreat the angels (and cliques) and delvers for the rest of the game. Thoughts?
--creatures--
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Scavenging Ooze
4 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
--equipment--
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
2 Batterskull
--planeswalkers--
3 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
--spells--
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Thoughtseize
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Sensei's Divining Top
1 sylvan library
--lands--
3 Bayou
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Forest
1 Phyrexian Tower
2 Plains
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
2 Swamp
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wooded Foothills
--sideboard--
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 thoughtseize
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Pernicious Deed
2 Raking Canopy
2 Toxic Deluge
1 Shriekmaw
Has anyone tried Desecration Demon in any version of Nic Fit?
Desec has shown up in some straight G/B lists every now and then. He's kind of bad right now, though, with Young Pyro everywhere.
Raking Canopy has seen Nic Fit play before. If it sticks, it's effective at what it does. There's usually better, less narrow options, though.
UR is another deck that seems fairly weak to Moat. Not sure if I would maindeck again at the moment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arianrhod
This is a list I've been developing independently since Cruise was printed. Really happy to see some other people are on something similar.
I've found it has good game against a lot of the metagame and I've been doing well in local events, I'm just waiting for a bigger one to really put it to the test (my ultimate goal is GP Kyoto).
The deck crushes creature decks, Delver, D&T, Tribal (though without teeg, elves can get you) etc.
It's favourable against Miracles, thanks to Decay, SFM, Teeg, Pithing Needles and Sylvan Library.
It does not care about RIP (comfortably beat RIP miracles multiple times)
It has game against combo, thanks to therapy, teegs and other hate cards out the side.
Of course no deck answers everything, it's weak to decks that can go over the top, fortunately Humility can usually save us there. Decks that severely outgrind you (lands). As well as super fast combo, but that's true of any non-FoW deck.
The main issue is we don't have brainstorm etc, so we have consistency issues, and despite having game against a lot of the popular decks in the format, sometimes you just don't draw what you want. The Zeniths and Library's, Mystics and tutors are there to help, but it's still its main weakness. Not that that has stopped me from playing Junk midrange before >:)
4 Verd Catacombs
3 Windswept Heath
2 Marsh flats
2 Swamp
2 Forest
1 Plains
2 Bayou
2 Savanah
1 Scrubland
2 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volraths Stronghold
22
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Greensun's Zenith
4 Deathrite Shaman
2 Veteran Explorer
1 Scooze
1 Teeg
1 Eternal Witness
1 Penumbra Spider
1 Siege Rhino
1 Thragtusk
4 SFM
1 Jitte
1 Sword of F&I
1 Batterskull
4 Cabal therapy
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Toxic Deluge
2 Sylvan Library
60
2 Duress
1 Teeg
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Enlightened Tutor
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Pithing Needle
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Sword of L&S
2 Deed
1 Humility
I've sideboard notes and understand all my card choices so feel free to ask.
Hopefully in a couple of weeks I can bring you a tournament report with a significant number of rounds, for now I can just say I'm winning a lot, and am very excited :)
Couple of questions & food for thoughts:Quote:
Originally Posted by Jain_Mor
- No sigarda ? I can understand that Rhino is a big deal himself but even with 2 phyrexian tower, there will be some games against STP.decks where you could wish having another beater. Not to mention that as much as the SFM package is strong, it is more than expected and there are a lot of artifact hate in any sideboarding strategy.
- 2 Phyrexian tower ? Interesting choice, but I sincerely think you are overcommiting to a card in a deck where you don't use its full value. I mean being able to Toxic deluge T2, daze proof is nice, but otherwise you lack of big bombs which could as well profit a lot from phyrexian tower. I encourage you to weight your choice with a karakas instead. If you consider a karakas to replace your phyrexian tower, you might also want a 1-of reliquary of knight. This card + your 3 utility lands (PT, VS and Karakas) would buy you tons of bad matchup. Not to mention that it would enable sweet plays with KoTR fetching karakas & GSZ for Teeg.
- 4 Toxic Deluge ? As much as I do like the card, I cannot understand such a devotion. I mean, it is strong against fair decks as long as you have enough life gain to support it but in a bigger event you might lose to random artifact/enchant decks. You may consider a small split (3/1) with a maelstrom pulse as a catch-all as you have already 2 deed in your sideboard.
- Penumbra spider, really ? In what kinda of matchup is it MVP ? Delver ? You have already 4 decay & 4 Toxic Deluge ? If you really want to edge against flying creature, I would go with Matsu-Tribe Sniper which has the ability to mess with Emrakul & Griselbrand to name a few.
- Sideboard:
1) I like enlightened tutor but right now the meta sideboarding strategy is mostly built around "hating the hate" for combo deck and "hating what I'm losing against" for fair decks. You'll never reliablely either resolve an enlightened tutor or get to stick your hate with a 1-of. Just, double-up on humility & ethersworn canonist (or 1 Spirit of the labyrinth). Furthermore, I get the feeling that you are not enough commited into the 1-of tutor package plan to justify its use.
2) Duress ? Go with Thoughtseize. Life does not matter in the matchup you side them in. Not being able to discard a hoof, a griselbrand / emrakul will cost you more games than losing 2 life points.
3) Relic of progenitus ? I know you want to, efficiently, deal with TC/DTT but I think you are already pretty well equiped MD against it (4 DRS, 1 Ooze). As you are playing potentially six 1-CMC discard post board, I invite you to use "surgical extraction" (or even extirpate) as I've stolen quite a few games against combo deck with an opening hand containing discard + surgical effect. It is that BACKBREAKING. Period. You need, during very long tournaments, free wins. Not to mention that it can come in against quadlazered fair decks. Removing the whole beatstick package from an opponent is rough (or even their hate).
4) Sword of L&S: again interesting choice but, here again, I cannot see against what matchup it is a MVP. I would make room for another discard spell or a krosan grip. If you want to stick with an equipment, I would play Feast & Famine as its ability as a broader impact on the meta.
My overall first impression (and I would like to have your sideboarding tables to further add thoughts about your deck) is that you are playing a lot against your local meta. You are, to my liking, not enough "opened/hedged" for bigger tournaments.
Keep rocking and welcome on the NicFit crew !!
Regarding Penumbra Spider: Im curious about this choice as well: for me, there are better options. Sigarda if youre looking at the high end, Scryb Ranger if you need to prot wall a Delver while providing some utility with traditional mana dorks.