Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ChemicalBurns
I tried exactly this. I trimmed them down to zero, but then immediately regretted it. I think 2-3 is a comfortable number, but I feel like the full four is semi-unecessary, unless you're doing some Crucible shenanigans. We mainly want it, as you said iostream, for random utility lands (especially Port, killing these has been incredibly useful at least for me, since this can really delay your threat deployment), but otherwise Factories have been a bit more useful to push those last points of aggression through. At the same time though, to fit all these utility lands in I've cut Urborg, which is kind of depressing, since it can be very strong at times. I might cut the Factories or Caverns down to three to fit at least a singleton in.
Also notable the list featured leaned heavily on Diamond, which is interesting. Really curious on what the full list looks like.
Personally, I like 2 Diamonds. 4 without Crucible support results just in too many dead draws imho.
I would never cut down on the Cavern numbers since it gives you so much game vs blue decks it's ridiculous.
You and iostream make good points about Wasteland. I'm considering 2-3 Wastelands. 1 could go into my flex slot (currently Kor Haven), but the other copies would have cut either into my Brushland or Factory count, and I'm not really thrilled about either. I could see cutting two Brushlands, but I don't think I could support RiP in that case anymore.
My proposal: We take a look at all relevant decks and list what are problematic cards and brainstorm how we can/could handle them in the most efficient way without wasting too many slots. The more overlaps, the better. I think that might speed up the streamlining process quite a bit. E.g. RiP was really very good vs Dredge, okay/good vs Lands, meh vs Reanimator (too slow). Leyline might address this match-ups differently, but has its casting cost as a major drawback. Not sure what's the best formating for said list - either by cards and their usefulness in match-ups or match-ups with cards that are relevant in it (problematic cards vs our answers).
For reference: Online and Paper metagame.
Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Barook
For those who run Wasteland: How has it performed for you so far? As good as Wasteland is as a card in Legacy, I'm not exactly a fan of sacrificing mana development in this particular deck, at least in my build.
I run 4 wastelands in my deck and they are awesome! I tried a list without wastelands and I was not happy with it. Believe it or not. Especially against mana-denying decks the wastelands are very useful. Because
- you got more lands (I got 25 at the moment)
- you can slow them down, if you are ahead
- you can get rid of anoying lands, e.g. karakas, dark depths, rishadan port ...
( - and against burn-decks you can sac to destroy one of your own lands to be protected against price of progress )
- if you play wastelands by yourself, you can be the active player and your opponent has to react. e.g. you can force him to fetch or you can take his lands to be safe of a spell pierce or if you got thorn or trinisphere you can take the 3rd land ...
there are tons of possibilities. Itīs definetely worth it. :-)
Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
josch6083
- you can slow them down, if you are ahead
- you can get rid of anoying lands, e.g. karakas, dark depths, rishadan port ...
Why would you need to slow down your opponent when you're ahead..? Odds are your opponent is close to death and unable to answer your threats anyway. And Karakas doesn't do shit vs. this deck so why would you waste Wasteland on that..?
I'm not saying Wasteland can't be a card in this deck (it only gains value after you land CotV/Trinisphere), but a part of your logic is a bit off.
Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
@Cavern
Please let us stop the talk about Cavern...it should be a playset unless you dodge the legacy meta and play only vs non blue stuff... Its fine if your opponents counter Chalice&Co, what will win you the game is an uncounterable Seer, Smasher and all the rest of the Eldrazi Swarm.
@Wasteland
I don't like them in a build which aims for mana development to cast World Breaker, Ulamog etc. - Yes Eldrazi play many ":2: Lands" but as we all mentioned, manadenial is an issue, so you risk to lose a game if you Waste and struggle to close the game. I think for midrange-control, if you have some flex land spots, Mishra's Factory should be better in those builds. For Wasteland i clearly see some usefull scenarios with the Aggro Build, because you can lead with a stream of Mimics/Endless Ones and can attack the development from your opponent so that he can't cast/find answers in time. In this case i would test a build with 3 Wasteland, 2 Mishra, 1 Crucible. Mishra wil ensure that you can still attack/block if the field is cleared or you can't cast Smashers. Crucible can hold all lands together and i like it with Reshaper (common in Aggro Builds) and more important multiple City/Eye. It should work even better if you also use Waste and Mishra.
@Barook: You Message Box is full :tongue:
Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ChemicalBurns
Really curious on what the full list looks like.
Here's the list Kevin ran in the event. I'm not sure how I feel about the Mox Diamonds and 4 Endbringers feels like a lot to me but obviously he did well with it.
ELDRAZI SHOPS BY KEVIN TOOLAN
Lands (24)
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
3 Wasteland
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Artifacts (10)
4 Mox diamond
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Trinisphere
Creatures (20)
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Reality Smasher
4 Endbringer
4 Endless One
Instants + Sorceries (6)
4 Warping Wail
2 Dismember
Sideboard (15)
2 All is Dust
2 Pithing Needle
2 Crucible of worlds
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Trinisphere
3 Faerie Macabre
2 World Breaker
There's also a good article at SFM about the evolution of the deck and how it got to this point if you are curious.
I've picked up about 80% of this deck over the past week or two, but I really wish I kept the Chalices I had about 3-4 months ago :(
Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MD.Ghost
@Wasteland
I don't like them in a build which aims for mana development to cast World Breaker, Ulamog etc. - Yes Eldrazi play many ":2: Lands" but as we all mentioned, manadenial is an issue, so you risk to lose a game if you Waste and struggle to close the game. I think for midrange-control, if you have some flex land spots, Mishra's Factory should be better in those builds. For Wasteland i clearly see some usefull scenarios with the Aggro Build, because you can lead with a stream of Mimics/Endless Ones and can attack the development from your opponent so that he can't cast/find answers in time. In this case i would test a build with 3 Wasteland, 2 Mishra, 1 Crucible. Mishra wil ensure that you can still attack/block if the field is cleared or you can't cast Smashers. Crucible can hold all lands together and i like it with Reshaper (common in Aggro Builds) and more important multiple City/Eye. It should work even better if you also use Waste and Mishra.
youīre absolutely right. In a list with Ulamog, Kozilek, worldbreaker and maybe the post-ramp itīs nearly impossible to play wastelands effectively!
I play a more aggro-based list! This is my list, then we know, what weīre talking about:
4 Thought Knot seer
4 Reality smasher
4 endless one
4 phyrexian revoker
4 eldrazi mimic
2 endbringer
4 chalice
3 thorn of amethyst
3 warping wail
2 dismember
1 basilisk collar
4 eldrazi temple
4 ancient tomb
4 cavern of souls
4 wasteland
3 ugin y. tomb
3 eye of ugin
2 city of traitors
1 crystal vein
Sideboard: still a work in progress
1 thorn of amethyst
2 spatial contortion
1 dismember
4 faerie macabre
1 surgical extraction (still thinking about this because of chalice, but itīs simply to good to be completely ignored)
1 endbringer (against show and tell matchups)
3 Ratchet bomb (maybe 2 are enough)?
?
in this list, the wastelands have been very very helpful!
But like every decktype, there are tons of possibilities and I donīt see my list as a final word. Itīs just my hit on this deck.
Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
josch6083
in this list, the wastelands have been very very helpful!
But like every decktype, there are tons of possibilities and I donīt see my list as a final word. Itīs just my hit on this deck.
Yes, list looks good so far - Collar+Endbringer seems like a nice tech, even if i still like the Revokers (i played 3 main in my first sketch of the deck) i can also see the Playset (or even a mix, if you cut something else) of Matter Reshaper in this place. Reshaper itself obviously has better synergy with Eye, Temple, Mimic and will work nice with Thorn and can also allow you (if you are lucky enough) to cheat the Collar through a Chalice (want to see the face of your opponent in this case^^).
I think Revoker is better vs Control/Combo (for me a sideboard card now, because both archetypes are not bad for eldrazi) and Reshaper will shine vs BGx or Rx Decks (were Revoker will die to every removal, cant attack and block good enough etc.).
Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Holy Crap. A buddy and I worked on a list this weekend and thought we were doing something cool. Of course, The Source already has 18 pages on this. A bunch of games were played and I think the biggest change is moving the Warping Wails main. In testing, this deck went 7-5 v. 4c Delver, 5-5 v Storm (ANT) and Lands and 7-3 v. Sneak and Show. An Endbringer locking down Emrakul for a win and a Sower stealing the Dark Depths/Thespian Stage combo were two particularly funny interactions.
Obviously, there has to be some discussion as to why Mind Stone sucks in the previous pages somewhere, but it as actually been good so far. Of course, the testing is only 4 match-ups. Anyway, didn't like the Mox Diamonds due to forcing the deck to discard lands, but here is the list right now for those who might want to look:
I've been calling it MonoDrazi or Mudrazi.
Creatures (25):
4 Mimics
4 thought-Knot
4 Reshapers
4 Smashers
4 Revokers
3 Oblivion Sowers
2 Endbringer
Spells (11):
4 Chalice
3 Mind Stone
2 Ratchet Bomb
1 All is Dust
1 Jitte
Lands (24):
4 Wasteland
4 Eye of Ugin
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
2 Cavern of Souls
2 Wastes
1 Karakas
Sideboard (15):
4 Thorns
3 Wails
2 Crucible of Worlds
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Defense Grid
2 Pithing Needle
Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
I'm thinking about Birthing Pod with or without Matter Reshaper.
Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Does anyone have the Gerry Thompson list that he posts in this article: http://www.starcitygames.com/article...azi-World.html ?
I don't have premium but I'm curious as to his latest take on the archetype in Legacy.
Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MGB
Creatures (21)
4 Eldrazi Mimic
1 Endbringer
4 Endless One
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer
Lands (24)
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
4 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Wasteland
3 Eye of Ugin
1 Karakas
Spells (15)
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Grim Monolith
3 Mox Diamond
2 Trinisphere
3 Dismember
1 Umezawa's Jitte
Sideboard
2 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Pithing Needle
3 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Endbringer
2 Faerie Macabre
3 Warping Wail
1 Umezawa's Jitte
Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
What do you guys think about Eldrazi Obligator? Obligator definitely helps against lands and reanimator, which are bad mathups according to this article: http://southfloridamagic.com/the-evo...eldrazi-shops/
Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Article by Kevin with detailed decklist, explanations, and video. Check it out http://southfloridamagic.com/the-evo...eldrazi-shops/
Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MaximumC
I agree with this sentiment, but not the analysis.
As you pointed out, I take a very dim view of Matter Reshaper. It's a 3/2 for 3. If anyone bothers to blow it up, it replaces itself as a card, and depending on what you flip, it might also replace the mana you spent to cast it. That's great, but in the meantime all you did was play a 3/2. if you're playing Eldrazi lands, maybe it only cost you 1 mana to play, effectively. So, we're talking about a Wild Nacatl or Kird Ape that replaces itself. That's not a bad card, but it's also not near as broken as the other Eldrazi, and so I think it only has a role in balls-to-the-wall aggro lists.
Your example of using Brainstorm to maximize Matter Reshaper is a fine incidental use of the two cards, but a bad basis for a deck. If you didn't have reshaper, you can do exactly the same thing -- put Dreadnought on top -- and just cast the Cloudform. Costs you 1UUU versus 3C, and you didn't have to resolve a creature. More importantly, what kind of deck is going to be running Brainstorm, Cloudform, Dreadnought, and Matter Reshaper, anyway? Not a good one!
The broader point of being able to use Brainstorm to eke value out of a Reshaper that is destined for the bin, however, is a good one. I don't think it's got much combo potential, but if your Reshaper is dying anyway, a Brainstorm can ensure that you get the maximum value -- a card and functionally three mana -- out of the exchange. When you add to that the fact that Reshaper only matters if you're in a really dense aggro deck, I start to ask what kind of aggro decks run Brainstorm, anyway. That'd be Merfolk and Delver, basically. Merfolk has no interest in a 3/2 for 3, but Delver? It might actually be interesting to see if it would be possible to merge Eldrazi aggro and some flavor of Delver.
Yeah post was written pretty quickly, but the main [hidden] point that I think stands. Namely that Matter Reshaper seems to play well with 1-mana spells/effects, if you want to do anything other than blindly draw a card [i.e. misuse it]; so Matter Reshaper + Chalice is tentatively an anti-combo. Maybe I'm missing some 2-drop card that doesn't kill the aggro aspect of these eldrazi decks, and lets you manipulate Reshaper's mechanic...but, I think Reshaper and Chalice are in fundamentally different Eldrazi decks. Lots of Reshaper evaluations didn't take into account it's probably more likely to be found in a colored Eldrazi decks focusing on Thorns/Spheres/Lodestone effects for its prison (if they even want/need such prison aspects), while eschewing chalice. The net effect of Brainstorm/Cloudform/Reshaper shenanigans is you no longer need fetches to totally clear brainstorm-lock, and that is significant since you are going to be using some number of Sol Lands.
As far as the colorless Lists go, I think there is room to begin looking at cards like Null Rod, Phyrexian Revoker, and Uba Mask as real sideboard options. Null Rod probably means Crystal Vein vs Moxen. Uba Mask plays really well Thought-Knot Seer's drawback, and really attacks mechanics that require cards in hand [FoW, Sneak Attack, Show and Tell, miracle triggers]. You're probably not going to get called on 8 critters [seers and mimic] that are quite weak to Torpor Orb, but it would be one more reason to pack backup 2-drops like revoker in the board, easily swapping out for mimics.
Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
anyone got or playing this near columbus ohio? I am wanting to get some playtesting in against this someone piloting it that it is their cup of tea! I think I should do fair to well against it but need the playtesting to know for sure!!
Thanks!
Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Noc2
How does it help against EoT Marit Lage --> gib you? Obligator might be okay vs Reanimator, especially when they are on low life due to Reanimate.
I would still rather run Eldrazi Displacer since it's the overall stronger card with more applications in more matches.
Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fox
As far as the colorless Lists go, I think there is room to begin looking at cards like
Null Rod,
Phyrexian Revoker, and
Uba Mask as real sideboard options. Null Rod probably means
Crystal Vein vs Moxen. Uba Mask plays really well Thought-Knot Seer's drawback, and really attacks mechanics that require cards in hand [FoW, Sneak Attack, Show and Tell, miracle triggers]. You're probably not going to get called on 8 critters [seers and mimic] that are quite weak to Torpor Orb, but it would be one more reason to pack backup 2-drops like revoker in the board, easily swapping out for mimics.
Great ideas. Not sure if they make the cut but dedinitely worth testing. Really like the idea of uba mask. What does your side board look like.
Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
Has anybody extensively playtested vs Shardless BUG yet? Didn't have the chance so far, but I'm interested how it turns out.
I'm actually quite puzzled about the SB. This is my most recent list:
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
4 Brushland
1 Karakas
4 Mishra's Factory
1 Wasteland
3 Talisman of Unity
2 Mox Diamond
2 Endless One (could become Phyrexian Metamorph, not sure)
4 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
2 Conduit of Ruin
2 World Breaker
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Trinisphere
3 Warping Wail
2 All Is Dust
2 Umezawa's Jitte
Sideboard
1 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Ratchet Bomb
3 Thorn of Amethyst
1 All Is Dust
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
2 Karakas
4 Rest in Peace
Ulamog has most like to go. I'm also not sure if a full playset of RiP is really needed - 3 copies might be sufficient.
Aside from Lands being still not a great match-up (and Painter probably being a nightmare, I assume), they're just minor parts of the metagame and I'm not too concerned about them. The more I play the deck, the more well-rounded it feels now. After I've warmed up for Displacer, it answers a whole lot of shit. I'm not sure what particular matches I should improve since the rest is either so-so or great. My SB is also pretty broad.
Grafdigger's Cage? Containment Priest (combo with Displacer as bonus)? More Thorns/3sphere? 4th Warping Wail? More Removal (Banishing Light, Dismember, Spatial Contortion, etc.)?
I'd love some input since I'm probably going to build it on MTGO after the price drop when they ban something from Eldrazi in Modern with SoI.
Re: [DECK] Eldrazi Stompy
