[Primer] Dredge

I'll probably cut Sphinx from my list. I boarded it out 100% of the time, even when I kept DR Zealot in. In the past it's given me more turn 1 wins in game 1, but you have a good point we probably win those game 1s either way. Don't need to discard their whole hand and attack with 12 3/3s on turn 1.

I'll stick with Zealot over Kolaghan for now. Zealot's haste sticks even if the Zealot dies (you can even sac Zealot to Therapy them pre-combat and have back-up zombies to block if the attack fails). 3/3s are better than 2/2s, and that difference has won me games when there were a number of chump blockers to beat through.

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Originally Posted by hellhound

why not Ashen Ghoul over the shadow?
i've used it for a long time when playing quadlaser and it worked better than shadow... the only downside is the B manafor reanimating which should almost never be an issue
just my 2cents

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I would play Ashen Ghoul over Shadow too. 1/1s suck. Manaless plays Nether Shadow only because they can't play Ashen Ghoul.

In my post-board games where Ichorids got extracted AND Bridges got exiled, Narcomoeba and Golgari Thug and Stinkweed Imp beatdown really wasn't getting me there. I don't think another 1/1 would have helped. 1/1s are too slow and too easily stopped.

Anybody watch the Legacy Premier League?

EDIT: Great TV: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thUU29k8WJY

Kind of a newbie here, and by no means very proficient with the deck but I rode Dredge to 6-2 at the 40 Duals tourney in StL today and it was a lot of fun. I finished 12th. Could do a writeup this week.

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Originally Posted by Manroe

Kind of a newbie here, and by no means very proficient with the deck but I rode Dredge to 6-2 at the 40 Duals tourney in StL today and it was a lot of fun. I finished 12th. Could do a writeup this week.

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I would love to read it!

My rounds were as follows:
Rd1: Merfolk W 2-1
Rd2: Aggro Loam W 2-0
Rd3: Sneak and Show L 1-2
Rd4: UB Shadow W 2-0
Rd5: Burn W 2-1
Rd6: Grixis Delver L 1-2 (This still stings, I'll detail more this week but 3 bridges in bottom 6 game three did me in)
Rd7: UB Shadow W 2-1 (Most intense game 3 I have ever played)
Rd8: Grixis Control W 2-1

Ended up with a Scrubland, not too shabby!

Mausoleum Secrets is one of the newbie's from the new set.
Instant-speed tutor opens up possibilities, however it isn't a flexible tutor (which I don't like generally) and at 2-cmc it might be tricky for us to even cast in some games.
I haven't tried testing it in any fashion. Personally I'm not sure we even need it...

Anyone looking to try test this card out here in Dredge?

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Originally Posted by slave

Mausoleum Secrets is one of the newbie's from the new set.
Instant-speed tutor opens up possibilities, however it isn't a flexible tutor (which I don't like generally) and at 2-cmc it might be tricky for us to even cast in some games.
I haven't tried testing it in any fashion. Personally I'm not sure we even need it...

Anyone looking to try test this card out here in Dredge?

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Legacy Dredge doesn't use spells with CMC > 1 (mostly!), it's bacause in turn 2 your hand is already empty (LED involved) or your opponent was on play and already cast some taxing effect or is prepared to counter (spell pierce, spell snare etc..).

It's focused on turn 1-2 play to dodge most hate / countermagic. Manaless doesn't use mana at all.. only alternative costs. S answer to Mausoleum Secrets is negative this card doesn't bring anything to Legacy Dredge.

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Originally Posted by Fatal

Legacy Dredge doesn't use spells with CMC > 1 (mostly!), it's bacause in turn 2 your hand is already empty (LED involved) or your opponent was on play and already cast some taxing effect or is prepared to counter (spell pierce, spell snare etc..).

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A related problem is that oftentimes we just don't get to two mana on the board. Last year, I cut Abrupt Decay and added a thirteenth land to address that problem, but it's still there.

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Originally Posted by Ronald Deuce

A related problem is that oftentimes we just don't get to two mana on the board. Last year, I cut Abrupt Decay and added a thirteenth land to address that problem, but it's still there.

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Other games I've hardcast Golgari Grave-Troll... It's hilarious when you flood with a 12 land deck. But yes, this deck doesn't consistently hit 2 mana. I don't run Decay for that reason.

The bigger problem with Mausoleum Secrets is it doesn't advance our gameplan. What would we ever do with it? It only finds a black card, it puts the card in hand instead of GY, and it requires us to already be dredging. It can't find engine stuff like LED or Breakthrough and it puts cards like Ichorid and Bridge from Below into an awkward zone. What would we even tutor for? Street Wraith? Cabal Therapy? Sideboard Abrupt Decay?

Entomb has more live targets and still wasn't good enough to make the cut.

Mausoleum Secrets is beyond unplayable. Probably even Infernal Tutor would be better. Or Spoils of the Vault. It doesn't help starting the engine, so it's use would be in finding answers to hate, but in order to do that you need to already have creatures in your graveyard, which is not going to happen against hate (LotV, RiP, etc.).

Dredge is not a "graveyard deck", where you can just jam cards that have "graveyard" in their textbox. It's a deck with a specific gameplan which is already strong enough to win against decks without hate. What is missing is a consistent, maindeckable way to combat hate, not another card that depends on the engine but is not part of the engine.

Mausoleum Secrets also only tutors for black cards.
I think I'd rather try and make Entomb work, but even for that seemingly strong card we don't find space.

Yeah I stopped running Abrupt Decay quite a while ago for the same reasons stated above.
Since DRS kicked the bucket, I've been concentrating on building the deck & side fast. Not quite fearless, but close...

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Originally Posted by GoblinSmashmaster

The bigger problem with Mausoleum Secrets is ..... What would we ever do with it?

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This is pretty much where I'm at with this card, I was just wondering if anyone might have found something good to do with it.
I guess not! It's not something I'm going to be buying or testing with FWIW.

Entomb IS a card I've tested with. I ran it with Ghasts and 4 Dread Return some years back.
It was fun to play, but had more moving parts and relied on the combo a bit more than simply grinding out zombies like regular LED-dredge will.

OK serious question about new cards: For those of you still playing Abrupt Decay, would you consider replacing it with Assassin's Trophy?

One thing I really hate about this deck is boarding the wrong answers in game 2 because you got almost 0 information in game 1. Assassin's Trophy is a safe pre-emptive swap in game 2, answering a wider range of answers than Decay. Namely you don't lose on turn 0 if they brought in LotV, but you also don't lose to say Containment Priest if you had brought in Nature's Claim. How often does the uncounterable clause come up? Is Decay often coming in against blue decks, or are those decks just running Surgical anyway?

If you were running it, would you play 13 lands main + 1 land SB?

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Originally Posted by GoblinSmashmaster

For those of you still playing Abrupt Decay, would you consider replacing it with Assassin's Trophy?
....
If you were running it, would you play 13 lands main + 1 land SB?

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When I was running AD, the *cannot be countered* text is sooooo important.
I used to run a couple of petals in the side for it too.

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Originally Posted by GoblinSmashmaster

OK serious question about new cards: For those of you still playing Abrupt Decay, would you consider replacing it with Assassin's Trophy?

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I may be going pretty far out on a limb, and you weren't asking me, but I actually think that Trophy is a trap for a lot of decks. It answers certain things for which the other available tools are relatively narrow or clunky, but I don't think Trophy is any less clunky than Decay. Decay's major strength was (as Slave said) "can't be countered," and I found it to be no more versatile (maybe even less so) than cards like Chain of Vapor. I may well be wrong, though; if you're ok with paying {B}{G}, give it a whirl and let us know how it goes!

Am I the only one here thinking that Radical Idea might be a fine addition to the deck? Historically, Dredge never had an instant speed draw spell (with the exception of Street Wraith, but removing food to feed an Ichorid scares me a bit) and Careful Study looks like the first card that I might starting to cut.

I know, two mana are A LOT.

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Originally Posted by meffeo

Am I the only one here thinking that Radical Idea might be a fine addition to the deck? Historically, Dredge never had an instant speed draw spell (with the exception of Street Wraith, but removing food to feed an Ichorid scares me a bit) and Careful Study looks like the first card that I might starting to cut.

I know, two mana are A LOT.

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Compare this card to Deep Analysis same cost + 3 life vs drawing 2 cards. Answer is not - Deep Analysis doesn't have place in Dredge since 2009. Sure it's not discard outlet - but on turn 2 if you didn't start to dredge this mean you lose.

So I've been on the 4 Street Wraith plan for a while. SW are good, but not amazing. I'm thinking about switching them for more Putrid Imps and drawspells.

It would look something like this:

4 SW
2 PImp
4 Faithless Looting
2 Careful Study
3 Breakthrough

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4 PImp
4 Looting
4 Study
3 Breakthrough

Does anyone have experience with this setup, especially in sideboard games? It's weaker against Chalice I think, but the extra PImps are great against Flusterstorms. Against non-blue and non-Chalice decks it should be stronger postboard because the drawspells are more consistent.

Can i have a discord invi???

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Originally Posted by Ahab

So I've been on the 4 Street Wraith plan for a while. SW are good, but not amazing. I'm thinking about switching them for more Putrid Imps and drawspells.

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I would.
I'd consider cutting Study to make room for 4x B-thru too.

Street Wraith is a card I've played with a lot. It's real use is in-hand, for post-board situations, to see if they play a targeted hate-card like Surgical Extraction. I used to run SW in the main back when DRS was the expected 1st-turn play of every 2nd deck, but I dropped that card from the main (& side) once DRS got the boot.
We have faster options for main, and better options for side.
Stitcher's Supplier probably earns a spot more than SW these days. Not saying it deserves a spot tho.