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You will be at the same life you would otherwise, unless you are talking about lists before Death Wish was here. Doomsdaying for the next turn is a calculated risk, such as Draw4 and Death Wish. These are the only three cards that make the difference in life loss compared to the older build, while not having to take the life hit from Street Wraith anymore. That's more life until you get hit by one those three cards.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mental
That's exactly what the recent builds have lacked - significant early turns. The older versions were more streamlined with the first couple of turns BS/Ponder/Mystical/Infernal/Street Wraith into the win in Turn 3. Compare that with the recent builds of first couple of turns SDT, spinning, and just then building up steam.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mental
Playing SDT does not prevent you from playing BS/Ponder/Mystical/Infernal. If you're playing a Doomsday list, SDT is not only a setup card, it's a combo piece that can be cast preemptively. I often find myself going off with Doomsday without having used SDT once.
Also, I don't think this deck should be compared to TES when designing a list. TES and FT follow absolutely different strategies (as Mental pointed out).
Play TES. It's a good deck and it fits the strategy you want to follow. It's absolutely able to win before hate shows up and it plays protection.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jak.
Also, "winnable MUs against other decks". I believe that a combo deck, whose slowest list has goldfished by turn 5 in ~95% of the games, does not only have a winnable Aggro matchup, but it has a positive aggro matchup. It might be not as positive as TES's aggro matchup, but that's not the point. Still, testing against aggro is necessary, especially against decks like Goyf Sligh or Burn which can pull off "Bolt, Bolt, Fireblast, GG" after you've payed 10 life for some spell.
I retested some of the thresh matchup against a build similar to Nihil's and a slightly more hateful build UGBw (splash for sideboard MM). The difference here between the builds I was playing was a suggestion that a teammate has been playing for awhile (Extirpate main with 4 Chant) and no Confidant in the sideboard (when I was testing against Nihil, I was testing how Confidant affects the UGB CB Matchup with Doomsday. I came into some interesting results:
The cards to board out against black thresh are:
Doomsday
Cruel Bargain
Brain Freeze
Sensei's Divining Top
Lotus Petal
Mystical Tutor
for:
Extirpate
Extirpate
Abeyance
Krosan Grip
Krosan Grip
Krosan Grip
It took me quite a few matches to realize that the black thresh match can't afford the extra space required by Doomsday without either cutting Ponder or Mystical Tutor (which in testing turned out to be a disaster). This is directly in the face of of previous reliance on Doomsday here. The key cards against UGB Thresh are Extirpate and Krosan Grip, with the storm count not being very relevant since Thresh is going to either contest you on your combo turn or lose to IGG (you can rely on one of these happening).
This is different than the other Thresh matchups:
Red Thrash:
In:
Abeyance
Extirpate
Out:
Ponder
Brain Freeze
I haven't found this matchup all that hard. Brain Freeze isn't necessary here. The third Extirpate isn't necessary either.
UGW Counterbalance (assuming Mage or Teeg)
Abeyance
Extirpate
Extirpate
Krosan Grip
Krosan Grip
Krosan Grip
IGG
Ponder
Ponder
Ponder
Lotus Petal
Mystical Tutor
The difference here is that in the white thresh matchup, the alternate win condition of Brain Freeze is relevant due to Mage or Teeg.
How did those plans improve the MU? Youmay be able to answer a CB and countermagic, but I don't think you could do it fast enough.
Part of what was slowing me down against Nihil's build was that I couldn't assemble the necessary protection fast enough due to being forced to board out all of my Ponders and Mystical Tutors to keep Doomsday. When I shed the Doomsday kill there (it's highly unlikely that I have my single Tendrils in my hand for them to Thoughtseize and then they need Extirpate for it anyway) I gain a lot of free slots that significantly increase my ability to find both protection and combo pieces against thresh.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jak.
So if expecting a lot of CounterTop, board should include 3x Grips? I suppose that means a trop mainboard (I refuse to waste a slot in my sb with a Trop). What should be dropped? 3x Serenity? That seems rediculous...God. I hate countertop.
Board would look like this (?):
3x K. Grip
1x Serenity
2x Extirpate
1x Abeyance (Maybe more)
1x Bargain/Contract
1x Rushing River
1x Massacre
1x Echoing Truth
4x Confidant
I don't know how many of you still run confidants. I suppose you could up the Grip to 4 and the Serenity to 4 instead of Confidants, or an additional Abeyance, some of you may like having a second Wipe Away in your board.
Here's my build as it stands atm:
//45 spells
2x Tendrils of Agony
1x Wipe Away
1x IGG
4x Chant
1x Bargain
3x SDT
3x Ponder
4x Brainstorm
1x D. Wish
1x DD
2x LDV
3x M. Tutor
4x IT
3x Petal
4x LED
4x Dark Rit
4x Cabal Rit
//15 Land
1x Tundra
1x USea
2x Scrubs
1x Swamp
2x Island
4x Strand
4x Delta
//15 Sideboard Cards
4x Dark Confidant
3x Serenity
2x Extirpate
1x Contract
1x Abeyance
1x Rushing River
1x E. Truth
1x Massacre
1x Slaughter Pact
Wondering if I want to change the Massacre for a Pyroclasm. I realize I don't run red, but I still have 3x Petals MD'ed. Just an idea...And yes, I still run Confidants. They work well for me, the only reason I'd drop them is for a 4th Serenity and 3x K. Grip, if that's necessary to beat countertop...If I needed to do this, I'd drop an Island MD for a Trop.
Would it be just to random to Leave only 1 SDT maindecked and put one in the board? This would allow for some Street Wraiths to be put back in. To be honest, I like them also. I've missed them in some matchups. Could also drop a LDV or a M. Tutor for another Street Wraith. Running LDV makes it easier to get around Chalice at 1. Also lets you "tutor" for either Death Wish or for Wipe Away.
Another take on hate in general is just to hate back. Meddling Mage is on color. Probably nothing there, but I haven't heard it mentioned. Then there's the always popular FoW, we do run enough blue to support it...but chant would have to be dropped (I don't see anything else that could go down in number besides Petals in my list, and I don't think that would be good).
What about this:
//46 spells
4x C. Rit
4x D. Rit
4x LED
3x Petal
4x IT
3x M. Tutor
1x LDV
1x D. Wish
4x Brainstorm
3x Ponder
2x SW
3x SDT
1x Bargain
4x Chant
1x Wipe Away
1x IGG
1x DD
2x Tendrils
//14 land
4x Delta
3x Strand
2x Scrub
1x Tundra
1x USea
1x Island
1x Swamp
//15 SB cards
3x Serenity
3x K. Grip
2x Extirpate
1x Abeyance
1x Contract/Bargain
1x R. River
1x E. Truth
1x Slaughter Pact
1x Massacre
1x SW
This is completely untested...The second Top in the maindeck could be a 4th Wraith...It still leaves the combo intact, but adds a little bit more aggression to the deck. I am not sure that 2x LDV with only 14 lands is a wise idea, but it's something to tamper with. You get one more cantrip out of this build though.
I'd like to hear some thoughts...I know Emidln would drop 2x Petals, 1x for a 15th land, and maybe a sixteenth as well, but maybe another top or M. Tutor...all decent ideas. I like to keep the explosiveness petals offer. Not that you can choose the matchups you draw an aggressive hand, but...
Pce,
--DC
Doomsday + Contract makes Burn, UGR Thrash, and Goyf Sligh often much harder MUs, because they now have 8+ more cards that you're afraid of.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaiminho
@DC:
A few points, in Train of Thought format.
Why would you want to play Clasm of Massacre? What is the gain?
What benefit would a Wraith/Top split give? It would seem to me to make the deck even more indecisive.
Why play Slaughter Pact over something like Sudden Death?
Running 4 KGrip against Counterbalance seems like a very strong plan. Confidant could be strong or unnecessary, I've never bothered to test it.
LDV is decent, but how do you feel about having to play black mana early to activate it?
No. You'll play Doomsday into Contract under the protection of Chant decks or not at all. Doing otherwise would be like asking why it's possible to lead swamp, Dark Ritual, pass the turn (burning for 3). It's possible to do, but only an idiot would play Dark Ritual if they have nothing to protect themselves from mana burn. More on topic, it's rarely necessary to even attempt Doomsday against decks with burn due to ease of which these decks allow you to play IGG. Thrash is the only standout here, but the burn in this matchup is scary as an additional element of the clock, balanced out by the fact that Thrash has 4 relevant cards once you hit 3 lands.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mental
Massacre allows you to play your Meddling Mage removal for multiple mages in a single card protectable with Chant. The major drawback is that Mage often names Chant and makes Massacre much worse. This is probably worse than running a Sudden Death + Doomsday/Brain Freeze from testing.Quote:
Why would you want to play Clasm of Massacre? What is the gain?
Massacre over clasm: Massacre is free against Mages and Teeg. I've never had an opponent name Massacre game 1, and if they do game 2 or 3, it's not like you don't have outs anyway. Wipe Away the one that named Tendrils. Slaughter Pact is another one, Rushing River, Echoing Truth...Quote:
Originally Posted by Mental
Wraith/Top Split: Both work the same essentially, but gives you outs to needle and such. The slot is interchangeable. Also, Wraith can give you a tidbit of draw in the face of a chalice at 1, not an extremely valid point, but still. The main idea was to be aggressive. Hence the 3x Petals and the 2x Wraiths, while still leaving the Top. View it as indecisive, but I think it's the strongest route around the controversy of SDT vs. SW. Leaves the Top and the aggressive side of the deck. I may go to 3x Wraith, 2x Top, leaving the Top in the board instead, but I'm not sure yet.
Pact over S. Death: There's not one creature you need to kill before your go-off turn unless they do something silly like naming Dark Ritual with Meddling Mage. Hence, it's a free spell that rids you of Teeg/Mage. I thought most lists ran it...I've always used it. Even if you end up having to pay for it, it only costs 2B, which is not hard to do on turn 3, which is when you will probably end up going off anyway if they are playing Mages, giving them blue and the obvious counterspells. This also leads to the point that you will also be under Chant protection since you are playing against counter-magic, so split-second isn't really an argument.
I think 3x Grips are sufficient. Serenity will almost always be easier to cast. You can get it down turn 1 easy via fetching white and a Petal. Very rarely will you be able to play a Grip on turn 1 on something like Chalice. Serenity has the added effect of basically timewalking you against artifact heavy builds.
I think I like Grips over Confidants. Testing has shown me the error of my ways. Plus, you run Brainstorms, Ponders, Tops and Street Wraiths in this build. It's nice to have the extra draw against control builds, but K. Grip and Serenity often make board-controlling aspects a moot point.
I like LDV. Black mana, whoop-dee-doo. I run extra; 2x Scrubs, 1x USea and a Swamp. 3x are fetchable by either, and the other by 4, plus I have petals. I'm quite okay with it. Often, and I don't recommend this very often, but I've dropped petal into rit, played top, fetched a USea, tapped it for blue and LDV into what I'm needing, and topped into it. Like another Dark Rit. That's 5 spells on turn 1, and you have mana. It's quite possible to go off like that. Like I said, unless you know your matchup and KNOW you are safe, I don't recommend it. Most of the time if you cast a LDV, you will win. Playing slowly is ok to do. Turn 2 LDV is a safe good play. I don't think I've ever drawn it and been upset. It's been a dead card once in a while, but it's never held me back. Plus, it's only as a 1-of. Works like a M. Tutor only not as susceptable to Chalice, and really lets you look for that Death Wish/Wipe Away. Might even put it up to 2, as it's really panning out for me.
BTW, Emidln, what is this talk of Brain Freeze? Tech, or mistype? You've mentioned it at least 2 times now...I think I'm missing something.
Pce,
--DC
I've discarded permanently the 17-lands build. There are advantages and disavantages.
The advantages are that there is an improvement in the matchup against Landstill. -Petals +Lands for a more stable manabase, SDT kills the power of Standstill (I've seen that a first turn SDT, second opponent's turn Standstill is only an advantage for us and an opponent's mistake in many cases) and if we have the access to Extirpate maindeck we have others more chances to win.
But, is this advantage so necessary? I see that also with the last version we can fight against a Landstill player with good chances to win if my oppnent hasn't an anticombo side (Arcane Laboratory, Orim,...)
Another advantage is against disruption slow clock decks like Stax thanks to a better manabase, but in many cases there is the problem of Armageddon (or others reset like Devastating Dreams, Cataclysm,...), so we must try to win as fast as possible and we haven't a so large advantage in comparison to the last build with Petals.
The disavantages are against fast clock decks like goblin/burn. Ok, I know we can win before of 4th turn, but with a 17-lands manabase without Petals & Street Wraith, that can give us a subtle and often not seen help, we risk more mulligans because of mediocre hand (3 lands, one or more nails like IGG or ToA,...) or the flood.
For these reasons I discard this version of deck and Petals return to be a staple of the deck.
I've seen more versions and more decklists in the topic. I think that all these versions and suggests are goods in the right metagame, so I think that it's fundamental to specify the metagame associate to a decklist.
There is a skeleton that is composed from rituals, tutors, cantrips, then there are others cards that rotate around the deck like SW, Death Wish, Extirpate,...
For example I think that SW aren't outdated in comparison to SDT in the right metagame. I continue to prefer SW in a fast meta with more combo and aggro .
If for example there is more disruption decks than blue decks in the form of Stax, AggroLoam, DragonStompy (+ Belcher decks) I prefer a maindeck Echoing Truth instead of Wipe Away that can be in SB for the right occasion.
Another card is Extirpate: in a meta infested from Landstill and Ichorid it's the right choice over for example the 4th Orim.
Another example is Death Wish: I can use it maindeck only in a meta with a good percentages of decks playing Extirpate. If there are more disruption decks like Stax I continue to prefer in g1 a bouncer like Echoing Truth in comparison to a Death Wish that requires too much time and it’s at sorcery speed.
And so on...
So some statements like: Death Wish is better maindeck are all relative to the metagame's context.
With the new build, Suppression Field in Stax becomes more dangerous. Luckily not all Stax's players use it in SB and know how strong it's in this matchup.
Usually in Stax matchup is very important the coin toss: if I win it I have the chances to start in 2 games and this is very important because this help us to play Mystical, SDT, Petal, Confidant(if someone uses it) before a Chalice or Trinisphere. But the card I really have fear in this matchup is Armageddon: I can mulligan an hand that autoloss from Chalice at 1 if I'm on the draw, but I can't do very much against an Armageddon that is played when I'm setting to start the combo or to search the bouncer/Serenity. Armageddon often cut my legs, so sometimes if I topdeck extra lands, but instead all I need is a tutor or a bouncer/Serenity ftw, I keep the lands in hand.
Ichorid is not a bad matchup. Postside we have one or more Extirpate, Abeyance and Echoing Truth. Usually I cut the second ToA, Wipe Away and one or more SDT that are more slow than Ponder (or Death Wish if you use it maindeck). I’ve tried Honor the Fallen in 1x in SB that it’s more incisive than Extirpate if my opponent doesn’t win in the first 2 turns on the play; but it’s sidable only in one matchup so I cut it.
@Dark_Cynic87: Massacre doesn’t kill Teeg.
Anyway I prefer it in comparison to Pyroclasm that requires a Volcanic Island maindeck. Usually Massacre is in SB only for 2 cards: Meddling Mage and True Believer; I played only one time against Teeg and all I need in this case is a bouncer.
My only doubt now is: can I replace Massacre with Brain Freeze? We surpass the Teeg and Mage defense with it, but not a True Believer.
(Brain Freeze is basically against Meddling Mage and Extirpate and because sometimes you can do enough storm with Doomsday stack, but you haven’t enough mana to play a ToA).
About the TES vs FT problem, I've played both. Unfortunately I don't go often to 40+players Legacy tournament (I don't consider 10people tournaments - too much smalls). I hold TES to only one tournament one year ago when it was almost unknow and I do a second place. I hold FT to 3 tournaments collecting a 15th place at 100+players in december and a 11th and 3th places
at 40players tournaments. Now it's obvius that everybody defends their pet decks; I own and play both the decks, so both are my pet decks :wink:.
All I can say it's if I'm waiting a meta with many landstill and stax/stompy I bring FT, instead if I'm waiting a meta with many threshold and trinketTopBalance I bring TES.
No preferences.
...not so much.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark_Cynic87
I did some analysis of win conditions. Brain Freeze is the second best win condition the deck has available to it. It circumvents Extirpates, Mages, and Teegs while fitting in perfectly with my Doomsday package. It kills immediately (for the most part, you pass the turn, but if an opponent can kill you with burn spells, you deserve to lose for attempting to Brain Freeze them) which is miles ahead of ETW putting you at risk for a million and one common mass removal spells. This is risk (for ETW) made worse by the fact the alternate win is played after the main win is nullified meaning even later in the game with an opponent having even more opportunity to draw answers for it.Quote:
BTW, Emidln, what is this talk of Brain Freeze? Tech, or mistype? You've mentioned it at least 2 times now...I think I'm missing something.
Whoops, my bad. I'm in the middle of a 10-page paper, so I'm a bit distracted. I pulled another all-nighter (shown by my posting times), so I'm a bit on the tired side, also.Quote:
Originally Posted by Illissius
I suppose you are right about the teegs thing, but if there's a Teeg out, just S. Pact it (He's legendary, right?) Dealing with him in multiples is not a worry. If they have out Teeg and mages, well...hehehe, like you'll EVER have to worry about that...
Emidln: How do you get enough storm to deck them? I'm guessing opening hand of 7, then what, turn 3 you go off? Multiple copies or what? I guess I don't get it.
Pce,
--DC
I usually use Doomsday to combo with Brain Freeze. The stacks normally look something like this:Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark_Cynic87
Draw4
Acceleration
Acceleration
SDT
Brain Freeze
The actual accel varies depending on I have available in hand/in play/on the table. The basic premise is that you're going to go about comboing normally into Infernal -> Doomsday floating all the mana you can. You then draw 1 mana for 1 storm, looping SDTs until you have 1U left where you play Freeze.
QFT. I dropped it for the reasons. The thing i miss more from the 17 Lands build is the lack of an efficient Doomsday combo to fight Grave hate.Quote:
Originally Posted by jegger
But anyway, what i really liked in this deck (compared to, say, TES), was the ability to aggressively mulligan and go for the throat when he needed to, but when he didn't need to he could just play slowly and sculpt a hand with a good manabase on board.
With the lack of petal and SW the deck is becoming more and more "controllish", based on "pay half your life" cards to gain a better middle game, losing a good number of turn 1-2 kills.
I still want to read the fear on my opponent's face keeping a hand with a turn 2 Trinisphere on the draw, knowing that it can be raced a good amount of times.
@jegger: I'm testing LDV too as 1x and here's what i think about it ATM:
Pros:
-It's golden to build turn 3 wins, on turn 1 you already have to play Brainstorm/Ponder/Mystical, so it's really never played unless you need 1 card to go off on turn 2 and have a Petal to spare.
- It's the only tutor for LED we have
- It's great G2 and G3, where it finds Serenity and Confidant (if you play it)
- It "comboes" with SW and SDT
- It "comboes" A LOT with Brainstorm, to draw multiple useful cards. You can even stack Brainstorm itself in the 5 card stack.
- It circumvents Chalice @2
- It's more difficult to counter with a Counterbalance than Mystical.
Cons:
- It costs black mana early in the game
- It's card disadvantage in addition to Mystical Tutor
- It costs 2 mana
- It costs some amount of life (usually 2-3 points)
At the moment I'm running a 2 SW, 1 LDV, 4 Ponder, 2 Tendrils, 2 IGG build. I'm thinking about going to 2 LDV, but I fear too much card disadvantage. I tried to cut a Mystical for a 2nd copy of LDV, but mystical is too good to pass up.
2x IGG is a waste of space, even without Doomsday 2 is unnecessary.Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenOne
LDV doesn't circumvent chalice@2...chalice@1, yeah...LDV is also no more difficult to counter with CB than M. Tutor. They respond with brainstorm, dropping Goyf on top.
How many Tops do you run? You are only running 2x SW, so I'm assuming you are running tops...2x or 3x?
So one more question about Brain Freeze...Do you run it SB or MD, and if it's MD, what slot? Tendrils #2?
Yeah, still thinking about that. I rarely go for 2 IGG loops unless it's a turn 1 win or there's some sort of life gain involved. It happens, however, that i use a drew IGG to gain Hellbent for IT.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark_Cynic87
Yeah, but people tend to play Chalice @0 and @1 before waiting to cast Chalice for 2.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark_Cynic87
There's usually a higher number of 1cc drops than 2cc drops in threshold lists.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark_Cynic87
If they play a turn 2 counterbalance and you play a turn 2 LDV they're likely blindly reveal 1-0cc.
If they have an active top a Mystical will NEVER resolve, where a LDV could.
In your case they gotta have a Brainstorm and 1 of the 11 2cc drops of the deck in hand and first 3 cards. Obviously it's likely, but it's much more likely with a 1cc drop.
Here's what I'm testing at the moment. Maybe I could go -1 IGG +1 LDV or SW.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark_Cynic87
0 Tops included.
// Lands
1 [A] Underground Sea
1 [ST] Swamp (1)
4 [ON] Polluted Delta
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
2 [MM] Island (3)
1 [U] Scrubland
1 [U] Tundra
1 [P3] Plains (1)
// Creatures
2 [FUT] Street Wraith
// Spells
4 [5E] Brainstorm
2 [US] Ill-Gotten Gains
2 [SC] Tendrils of Agony
4 [MI] Lion's Eye Diamond
4 [DIS] Infernal Tutor
4 [A] Dark Ritual
4 [TO] Cabal Ritual
4 [TE] Lotus Petal
4 [MI] Mystical Tutor
4 [PS] Orim's Chant
1 [TSP] Wipe Away
4 [LRW] Ponder
1 [PT] Cruel Bargain
1 [AL] Lim-Dul's Vault
this list seems pretty ballsy. LMK how only 2x SW works out, as I've never wanted less than 4x of either top or wraith. I would HIGHLY encourage a Doomsday, as 2 IGG makes you quite dependent on your 'yard. I'm more about getting what I need, so I enjoy the D. Wish. Clearly, you focus on going for the throat. What kind of meta do you play in? This seems pretty aggro-oriented, with some permission, but not much. The chants look like they are more for timewalking than anything. I'm also guessing you don't see many stompy builds, as a lack of answers is quite apparent pre-boarding. I've also thought about switching Brainstorm and Ponder's count around to 3 and 4 respectively, but I don't like a set of each. 8 is just too much for me. Just for a quasi-tutor that doesn't need hellbent and gets around chalices and CB most effectively, I'd recommend dropping down to 3 M. Tutors and up the LDV count by 1. They are no worse, especially in the matchups you need to slow down in such as stompy (other factors like your hand and the opening plays notwithstanding, of course) and other artifact-control MU's.
I run a more tech'ed out list, as my meta consists of Dragon Stompy, Ichorid, Fish (lol, yeah...), MBA, some Thresh and burn (hehehehe, bye), and a little zoo every now and then. Oh, and a wierd wizard build that incorporates CounterTop. It's actually a pretty difficult matchup. And why wouldn't it be, I built it for the guy...:rolleyes:
Pce,
--DC
Today I played a tourney with FT..
The list I played:
// Lands
1 [A] Underground Sea
1 [ST] Swamp
4 [ON] Polluted Delta
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
2 [MM] Island
1 [u] Scrubland
1 [u] Tundra
1 [P3] Plains
// Spells
4 Brainstorm
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Infernal Tutor
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Mystical Tutor
4 Orim's Chant
4 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Ponder
2 Lotus Petal*
2 Ill-Gotten Gains
2 Tendrils of Agony
1 Wipe Away
1 Cruel Bargain
1 Lim-Dul's Vault
1 Extirpate
0 Doomsday*
// Sideboard
3 Serenity**
3 Krosan Grip**
1 Tropical Island
2 Abeyance
1 Extirpate
1 Recoup
1 Echoing Truth
1 Rushing River
1 Death Wish
1 Cruel Bargain
*Normally I play 1 less and a Doomsday in the slot.. But I bought the card and he didnt arrived in time.. And a friend he has is couldnt find it.. So I has to chance 1 card 10 minues before the tourney started
**Normally I play 4 Serenity, but I only had 3.. So I played 1 Grip more..
I wen 3-2-0..
Matchups:
Round 1 MUC with main Countertop..
After a game of 40 minutes (all Chants were already in my grave) he has CounterTop.. Eot I bounce his balance with Wipe Away.. In my turn I try to go off (many Tutors and Rituals in hand).. My tendrils gets him only to 2-6 (I forgot my pen.. So I cant check it..) But he had to pitch his Balance to his Fow!.. 10 minutes later he has a Morphling, and I'm at 5 life.. I play Pate on his Rune Snag.. Hit! Only 1 Delta in his hand.. Now he only has 5 mana open, a Top in play and Fow as the only counter (ok, Force Spike.. But I had all my lands on the table so mana was no problem), so he coulnt look at the top 3 with his top.. I go off.. he draws no FOW and I win,, hell yeah! :cool: .
We have 5 turns for game 2.. Why not.. Its possible. He starts, plays a land and says go.. I do the same.. he does nothing Eot.. He plays a land agains and doesn nithing agains.. Eot I play Brainstorm, he Spikes it.. In my upkeep I play a M Tutor, he Force Spikes it.. I draw a card and can combo out.. Why wont I try it.. I dont have mana for my Chant/Abeyance so I try to go off, never know.. It was my last chance.. So I go off.. Dont know how exactly but I find myself 1 storm to short.. So we say to the judge it is 1-0.. But 1 minut later, I remember wo totally forgot the storm from M Tutor and Spike in the upkeep.. Damn,, but it didnt mathered very much..
Round 2 D&T
Game 1, duh, I winn..
Game 2, he plays a Thorn of Amethyst turn 1 and attacks a couple of turns.. Then I go EOT bounce, and in my turn I combo of.. But When I go Igg -> Tutor +2 C Ritual, I see I dont have ***** for the 1st C Ritual (stupid miscalculating (is that a word?))... So I couldnt make enough mana for another Igg, so I had to pick a Tendrils, Needed only 1 storm more to kill him!! He was on 2, played his Thorn and beats my ass.. didnt draww anything usefull.
Game 3, Thorn of Amethyst + Glowrider.. Fuck you! Stupid anti combo side.. I also had to mull to 5 with still not a very great hand..
How can I lose that MU ...
Round 3 DS with Trini main..
Game 1, Cotv at 1.. I draw a card and now I have in hand some land, 3 BS, 1 SDT and 1 D Ritual.. Turn 2 Slogger beats my to hell
Game 2, he starts again with a Cotv at 1, Eot I crack my Delta fo a Scrubland (I had 2 Island (1 in play, 1 in hand) and was thinking of searching a Swamp.. But because he didnt knew what I play (he only saw Basic Islands) I hoped he boarded out his Blood Moons..) and I go LDV into 1 Led, a Tutor and a Recoup! Nice.. I have 1 LED in my hand already.. Then he plays a Cotv at 2.. Followed by Trinisphere.. Then I draw my Recoup, so I can bounce his stuff Eot.. But in his turn he goes Blood Moon.. Damn,, no black mana left to combo out.. I better searched for a Swamp.. But when the Recoup was a Serenity it was better this way.. So it was just unlucky..
Round 4 Deadguy Rock
Win turn 3 and 2
Round 5 UW Salvagers Combo
Game 1, I get him down to 4 (I couldnt het enough storm because of counter I think..) Then he starts beating me.. In the last turn I have, I have 4 lands and 1 card I dont need, I know he has no counters (cant remember why I knew this..) I topdeck BS, cast it, draw LED, Tutor and 1 card I cant remember.. Woow! topdeckskill! Cast LED -> Tutor -> Tendrils
Game 2, I play a Cruel bargain turn 1.. But still my hand ist very good.. A MM on Tendrils and Tutor (he better called a bounce spell) follow and he beats my below zero.
Game 3, Again I strat with 1 Bargain on turn 1.. But now I have 2 Chant, 1 Abeyance and many rituals + Tutor.. I cast 1 Chant and it resolves.. Ok.. GG.
He has many counters + MM in hand.. But he didnt draw his mana
I'm very happy of the list I played.. I didnt missed the Doomsday, but thats just because I didnt came in a situation where he should be good.. Just lucky.
Only thing I wanna chance is Main more LDV, just so broken.. Maybe -1 M Tutor and +1 LDV, and Side +1 Pate -1 Abeyance (2 mana is pretty much, but I keep playing 1.. Against Tormods Crypt and random crap...)
It was the first tourney with the deck.. And I really like the deck.. I only lost to random D&T SB cards and DS, but that MU is soo hard.. especially with Trini main.. My win against MUC after 50 minutes was soo cool..
Jip
EDIT: when I played against Salvagers, I really hoped I had played the Brain Freeze, after his first MM, cause searching a Bounce for it really gives him much time.. So I think I gonna test it..