[Deck] TES - The EPIC Storm

f.e. this hand on the play:

Petal, Petal, Rite, City, Infernal, LED, Chant


after city, petal, petal, rite, led, infernal, ir sac led for UUU, tutor up dreturns, the dreturns resolves with a petal "floating".

2 out of 10 with BU floating indicates that going for Chant + 14 gobs would be the better play with the aforementioned hand ~~


btw normaly i don't have 2 leds :D


btw i am often confronted with the dicision between 12+ gobs turn 1 on the play or dreturns with one mana floating, so i wanted to know the risk for going with dreturns. i guess going for the gobs is the better play in most of the cases then.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zefhek

f.e. this hand on the play:

Petal, Petal, Rite, City, Infernal, LED, Chant


after city, petal, petal, rite, led, infernal, ir sac led for UUU, tutor up dreturns, the dreturns resolves with a petal "floating".

2 out of 10 with BU floating indicates that going for Chant + 14 gobs would be the better play with the aforementioned hand ~~


btw normaly i don't have 2 leds :D


btw i am often confronted with the dicision between 12+ gobs turn 1 on the play or dreturns with one mana floating, so i wanted to know the risk for going with dreturns. i guess going for the gobs is the better play in most of the cases then.

---

Just go for EtW in this case. I always like making Goblins that will win in 2 turns. Unless your facing a deck with answers to it or will beat you before then, just make the safe play.

Also, just got back from the card shop and picked up 4 Shushers, 1 Tarnished Citadel, and a Slithermuse. I am really excited to start testing them all.

By the way, can you post your list Bryant?

Okay, finally found the list :cool: . Did Slithermuse not work out? I just picked one up so I am testing it in place of one draw 4.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jak.

Okay, finally found the list :cool: . Did Slithermuse not work out? I just picked one up so I am testing it in place of one draw 4.

---

Slithermuse is great in goldfishing, awful in actual game play. Try it and find out for your self.

By the way, your sideboard, four blast is too much. In my testing with Shusher, if you have a shusher and blast it hand it's kind of irrelevant unless blowing up counterbalance. Pyroblast was there to counter a counter on Chant. When Chant is uncounterable, blast loses some value.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bryant C.

Slithermuse is great in goldfishing, awful in actual game play. Try it and find out for your self.

By the way, your sideboard, four blast is too much. In my testing with Shusher, if you have a shusher and blast it hand it's kind of irrelevant unless blowing up counterbalance. Pyroblast was there to counter a counter on Chant. When Chant is uncounterable, blast loses some value.

---

Okay I'll test with 3. I have been wanting room for another Shattering Spree because I hate DS or a Duress (Thoughtseize when I pick one up).

I'll keep testing it but I do see where it sucks. Drawing it late hurts. I still get a boner thinking of playing it after I LED first turn.

If I'm going into a returns with one mana floating, I ALWAYS try to make sure it is BLACK.
It is just always the best, it is easier to get red after a returns due to SSG, and having the black to cast that dark rit or tutor is so crucial.

And MAN Shusher is ridiculous. Now I'm no longer afraid to bust my pair of LEDs into a tutor.
They have to leave in removal, and if they do, they have to board out relevant cards for hate. :wink:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BreathWeapon

On another subject, I've been having a ton of fun with a Doomsday in the SB, if you MD a Draw 4, you can put some really cool stacks together. It's probably unnecessary, but it can't hurt if you have the SB space.

---

I was thinking about this all day yesterday, its damn near impossible to win with Doomsday in the same turn. You Burning Wish (1R), Doomsday (1RBBB), you need a draw spell 1RBBBU or 1RBBBBBB, why not just Ill-Gotten Gains or Diminishing Returns. You can't use LED and Doomsday since you won't have a draw spell.

Shusher is awesome, no doubt. He reminds me of Xantid Swarm in a way though. You play him and combo on the next turn, ideally. Mostly because you want your mana to use him/otherspells. Another reason why he reminds me of Swarm is that he can be hit by removal. If resolved and sticking, I'd say this replaces Blast.

Doomsday looked interesting, but I'm not sold.

Post your list please Bryant.

It's on the opening post.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bryant C.

I was thinking about this all day yesterday, its damn near impossible to win with Doomsday in the same turn. You Burning Wish (1R), Doomsday (1RBBB), you need a draw spell 1RBBBU or 1RBBBBBB, why not just Ill-Gotten Gains or Diminishing Returns. You can't use LED and Doomsday since you won't have a draw spell.

---

Well, if Ill Gotten Gains is an option, then there's no reason to use Diminishing Returns or Doomsday at all, but if Ill Gotten Gains isn't an option, then it's a question of whether or not you want to risk a Draw 7 fizzle + refilling your opponent's hand vs passing the turn.

Doomsday is more of an anti-Landstill card, if they don't have a clock and they don't have a lock piece, you can just tutor for Doomsday and win on the next turn with out LED.

It's not impossible to win on the same turn, it just requires 1R + BBB + U into Dark Ritual, Dark Ritual, Infernal Contract, Ill Gotten Gains and Tendrils of Agony. You can pull it off with LED(s) no problem, it's like tutoring for Ill Gotten Gains with Infernal Tutor in the graveyard, but in this case you just need a cantrip in your hand instead of a tutor in your graveyard.

Like I said, it's a marginally useful card, you'll find scenarios where it can be awesome and you'll find scenarios where you can just tutor for something else. It's really no different than any other wish target in that respect.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BreathWeapon

Well, if Ill Gotten Gains is an option, then there's no reason to use Diminishing Returns or Doomsday at all, but if Ill Gotten Gains isn't an option, then it's a question of whether or not you want to risk a Draw 7 fizzle + refilling your opponent's hand vs passing the turn.

Doomsday is more of an anti-Landstill card, if they don't have a clock and they don't have a lock piece, you can just tutor for Doomsday and win on the next turn with out LED.

It's not impossible to win on the same turn, it just requires 1R + BBB + U into Dark Ritual, Dark Ritual, Infernal Contract, Ill Gotten Gains and Tendrils of Agony. You can pull it off with LED(s) no problem, it's like tutoring for Ill Gotten Gains with Infernal Tutor in the graveyard, but in this case you just need a cantrip in your hand instead of a tutor in your graveyard.

Like I said, it's a marginally useful card, you'll find scenarios where it can be awesome and you'll find scenarios where you can just tutor for something else. It's really no different than any other wish target in that respect.

---

It seems like theres better use for sideboard slots than a Doomsday, do we really need three storm generators? I'm having a hard enough time finding room for an Infernal Contract in my sideboard.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bryant C.

It seems like theres better use for sideboard slots than a Doomsday, do we really need three storm generators? I'm having a hard enough time finding room for an Infernal Contract in my sideboard.

---

I was just experimenting with the convergance between a SB Doomsday and a MD Infernal Contract, it's by no means necessary, but it's an interesting options for people willing to forego a SB slot.

You could probably find the room if you cut back on the Pyroblasts, can you really MD more than 8 disruption pieces with out slowing down to a crawl game 2? I haven't needed more than 8 Chant/Shusher vs most of the Landstill/Threshold decks I've run across, you could be better off with Shattering Spree or Serenity.

Edit: Or you can truncate the Cleanfall and Shattering Spree into Hull Breach, I think the Draw 4 is way more important than two mass removal slots instead of one pin point removal slot that can serve as mass removal to, or you can drop Thoughtseize for it. Baiting with a threat is usually better than wishing for disruption any way.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BreathWeapon

I was just experimenting with the convergance between a SB Doomsday and a MD Infernal Contract, it's by no means necessary, but it's an interesting options for people willing to forego a SB slot.

You could probably find the room if you cut back on the Pyroblasts, can you really MD more than 8 disruption pieces with out slowing down to a crawl game 2? I haven't needed more than 8 Chant/Shusher vs most of the Landstill/Threshold decks I've run across, you could be better off with Shattering Spree or Serenity.

Edit: Or you can truncate the Cleanfall and Shattering Spree into Hull Breach, I think the Draw 4 is way more important than two mass removal slots instead of one pin point removal slot that can serve as mass removal to, or you can drop Thoughtseize for it. Baiting with a threat is usually better than wishing for disruption any way.

---

Cleanfall and Shattering Spree are both needed due to casting costs and what they get around - Counterbalance and Chalice. As for Thoughtsieze, I wish for it enough to keep it. My reasoning for cutting Infernal Contract was for one more mana you can Diminishing Returns for a similar effect.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bryant C.

Cleanfall and Shattering Spree are both needed due to casting costs and what they get around - Counterbalance and Chalice. As for Thoughtsieze, I wish for it enough to keep it. My reasoning for cutting Infernal Contract was for one more mana you can Diminishing Returns for a similar effect.

---

Isn't it idealistic to assume that Chalice of the Void wont be set at 2 or Counterbalance wont reveal at 2 when you Burning Wish for your answer? Non Tomb/City mana bases can't set Chalice of the Void at 2, or wont set Chalice of the Void at 2 before it sets Chalice(s) of the Void at 0 and/or 1, so Burning Wish for Hull Breach should be good against Chalice of the Void most of the time. I can see Cleanfall against Counterbalance(s), but assuming a pre-emptive wish for Cleanfall is just a waste of resources compared to a pre-emptive wish for discard, Hull Breach should be fine there to.

Comparing Diminishing Returns to Infernal Contract is like comparing night and day, you wish for Diminishing Returns when you are ready to go off, and you wish for Infernal Contract while you are setting up. 2UU vs BBB leads to Diminishing Returns and Infernal Contract being opposing compliments to each other, since both of their CCs are restrictive, you'll often have the mana requirements for one but not the other, so you need to be able to choose from both.

Cutting the SB Draw 4 for a redundant disruption card just seems bad, I wish for a Draw 4 all the time, I don't "wish" I have a Pyroblast sitting around.

I think the Draw 4 has earned it's permanent slot in the SB, I'd sooner cut Pyroclasm.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BreathWeapon

Isn't it idealistic to assume that Chalice of the Void wont be set at 2 or Counterbalance wont reveal at 2 when you Burning Wish for your answer? Non Tomb/City mana bases can't set Chalice of the Void at 2, or wont set Chalice of the Void at 2 before it sets Chalice(s) of the Void at 0 and/or 1, so Burning Wish for Hull Breach should be good against Chalice of the Void most of the time. I can see Cleanfall against Counterbalance(s), but assuming a pre-emptive wish for Cleanfall is just a waste of resources compared to a pre-emptive wish for discard, Hull Breach should be fine there to.

Comparing Diminishing Returns to Infernal Contract is like comparing night and day, you wish for Diminishing Returns when you are ready to go off, and you wish for Infernal Contract while you are setting up. 2UU vs BBB leads to Diminishing Returns and Infernal Contract being opposing compliments to each other, since both of their CCs are restrictive, you'll often have the mana requirements for one but not the other, so you need to be able to choose from both.

Cutting the SB Draw 4 for a redundant disruption card just seems bad, I wish for a Draw 4 all the time, I don't "wish" I have a Pyroblast sitting around.

I think the Draw 4 has earned it's permanent slot in the SB, I'd sooner cut Pyroclasm.

---

Chalice is very rarely set at 2. Its usually 0 and 1, way before 2. As for counterbalance, I generally try and bait before ramming a Burning Wish blindly into counterbalance. Shattering Spree destroys multiple Chalices and Trinispheres along with other troublesome artifacts.

I kind of agree with you on Returns vs Contract, however, I'm unsure on going down to 2 blasts. I'll try it because blast was weak with Shusher on the table.

Well sure, but double Chalice of the Void is kind of absurd, you're more likely to see Chalice of the Void and Pyrostatic Pillar etc. at that rate. If you're facing that much permanent based hate, you need to be SBing in Shattering Spree(s) and not wishing for them.

There's nothing Blasts do that Shusher doesn't do, IMO, they made sense when they were protecting Orim's Chant from Force of Will or countering/removing Counterbalance, but now that Shusher does all of that (relatively speaking) and more by itself, I think we can safely cut them.

Edit: Unless you actually need that much disruption vs control, if Pyroblast is doing anything relevant ATM, it's countering Hydroblast on Vexing Shusher.

1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Ill Gotten Gains
1 Diminishing Returns
1 Infernal Contract
1 Hull Breach/Cleanfall
1 Pyroclasm
4 Shattering Spree (Serenity could be stronger)
4 Vexing Shusher

That seems balanced, and you should kick Tomb/City decks right in the nuts.

that sb looks good, i agree that 8 hate cards should be enough along with 4-8 cantrips (depending on how many you side out for shushers) :/

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zefhek

that sb looks good, i agree that 8 hate cards should be enough along with 4-8 cantrips (depending on how many you side out for shushers) :/

---

Are people SBing out cantrips over SSG for disruption?

i sidet out 2 ponder 2 cabal 1 ssg 1 mox for 4 blast 2 insects before shusher on the old list (and yes i played 2 insects in the side).

haven't had time to test those shushers until now. (but i guess i'll side out sth. like 1 mox 2 ssg and 1 ponder for it)

Since people are posting their SB, I'll post mine. Still trying different things, but this is what I like.

1 Tendrils
1 EtW
1 Igg
1 DR
1 Shattering Spree
1 Tranquility - may become Draw 4 or SS
1 Hull Breach - may become Draw 4 or SS
1 Pyroclasm
3 Pyroblast
4 Shusher

I like having multiple hate on stuff because of Runed Halo coming out. I hate DS so I have stuff for that. It may be a bit much but I like it.

For Sbing I side out 4 Mox and 3 Cantrips against Thresh. Landstill is 3 Mox and 4 SSG. Not sure if that is the best but its what I do.