I could have sworn there were quite a few posts in between.Quote:
Originally Posted by Water_Wizard
Printable View
I could have sworn there were quite a few posts in between.Quote:
Originally Posted by Water_Wizard
I don't think so. I get email updates, and I don't see anything missing here. The Stoneblade thread over at mtgsalvation was a little more active, maybe you're confusing it with that?Quote:
Originally Posted by lordofthepit
I'm having trouble against the mirror. I'm playing the fairy version with 3 REB in the sideboard. The rest of the deck is pretty typical.
I typically side out 4 Force and bring in 3 REB and a Crucible for the mirror but have still been loosing.
How do you side for the mirror and what plays are good?
When you say you're playing the fairy version, do you mean Spellstutter Sprites, and instead of Snapcaster Mage?Quote:
Originally Posted by bkemke
If so, it's my opinion that Snapcaster > Spellstutter in general, and I think that's even more true with the red splash, what with bolts and REBs.
What specific problems are you running into?
I play 4 snapcaster but no bolts main deck or sideboard. The red splash is only for REB.
The problem is I have repeatedly been loosing the mirror. It could be because I'm keeping bad hands or sideboarding poorly.
Is REB a good swap for FOW? Any other ideas for siding in the mirror?
@ matunos
I'm pretty sure the OP is using 4 Snapcaster Mage, 2 Spellstutter Sprite, 2 Vendilion Clique and some number of Mutavaults.
How many red mana sources do you run? Do you find you're able to play the REBs when you need to? If so, then I would say swapping out the FoWs for them is a fine idea. But if you're running enough red to support 3 REBs, I think you should seriously consider running some bolts main.Quote:
Originally Posted by bkemke
But can you give more details about what happens in your games against the mirror?
I'm not familiar with this mix. What's the point of running 2 Spellstutters? I'd probably look to swap them, and then replace the Mutavaults with Mishra's.Quote:
Originally Posted by tangram
It's be helpful if bkemke posted a deck list so we don't have to guess.
@bkemke: If you could reliably produce R for Red blasts, I suggest you go -1 SFM, -1 Counterspell, -1 Fow for the Red blasts. Boarding out FoWs completely is bad because you'd surely be lacking protection for your Planeswalkers. The Faerie build should be favored slightly against the non-faerie version because the high density of fliers gives you more ways to be able to kill off planeswalkers. Could you share your list so we could elaborate more? But basically given the standard faerie version lists played by Chris Van Meter and the like in SCG, I'd probably go with the above configuration. I'm not really sure how you could fit CoW in your deck since I don't play it in my 75. You could probably side-out differently but personally I wouldn't go below 3 fow, 3 sfm, BS and SoFaF, 4 snapcasters, and 4 snares against the mirror. Snares are gold since they counter SfMs and ScMs in the match-up. 3 FoWs is just enough for you to push through a key Clique or Planeswalker that tip the match in your favor.
@matunos: Sprites seem weak but it's really effective in this shell. It flies to chip loyalties of walkers, a flier that carries swords, and more importantly, it counters key 1 or 2 cc spells like Snare, Pierce, Mongoose, BS, ReB, MoR, Top, SfM that you otherwise would have very few answers for, FoWing these cards is a bad play IMO because it sets you back 2 cards for 1, leaves you without a FoW for other threats you couldn't otherwise answer with other cards, and more importantly, gives you a way to answer a key pierce or ReB on your own FoW over a key play in the game. I tried the non-Faerie version before with Pierces and often found myself with dead Pierces in hand because the opponents have already established a good manabase. I've recently switched to the Faerie version and have been very successful so far.
From your response, I assume you play the more recently popular non-Fae lists. Care to share your inputs regarding a non-Fae list?
Ok, here's what I'm playing:
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Force of Will
4 Spell Snare
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Jace, the Mindsculpter
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Spellstutter Sprite
2 Counterspell
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
4 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Island
1 Plains
2 Wasteland
2 Mutavault
2 Volcanic Island
1 Riptide Laboratory
1 Karakas
Sideboard
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Red Elemental Blast
2 Wrath of God
3 Path to Exile
2 Disenchant
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Crucible of Worlds
I agree on valuing hands with spell snare highest. I recall that any time I've won the mirror, it's been on the back of spell snare. For those asking about the fairy build, personally, I've been very happy with Spellstutter Sprite and Vendilion Cliche. At worst Sprite counters a Ponder, best case a STP or Bolt
Thanks for the information so far given you had to guess at my decklist!
If this has already been discussed, sorry... I've been playing the most common list pretty much, just with no SSS for a month or so now. I don't play against a lot of Merfolk, and to be able to block with Mutavault and bounce it with Riptide Lab is too marginal, so I've really been happy using Factories. I've noticed most lists are shifting to x2 Equipment slots MD, I guess I really haven't done enough testing to notice a difference yet, although, I think x3 equips may be better in a list with Cliques and SSS though (more fliers to make swords more effective). Here is my list:
x4 Brainstorm
x4 Spell Snare
x4 Force of Will
x3 Counterspell
x4 Swords to Plowshares
x4 Snapcaster Mage
x4 Stoneforge Mystic
x3 Vendilion Clique
x3 Jace, the Mindsculptor
x1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
x1 Batterskull
x1 Umezawa's Jitte
x1 Sword of Feast and Famine
x1 Riptide Laboratory
x2 Mishra's Factory
x3 Wasteland
x4 Flooded Strand
x3 Polluted Delta
x2 Marsh Flats
x4 Tundra
x1 Karakas
x3 Island
x1 Plains
sb
x2 Wrath of God
x3 Path to Exile
x2 Grafdigger's Cage
x3 Surgical Extraction
x2 Spell Pierce
x1 Crucible of Worlds
x2 Disenchant
Can someone give me a little insight as to why everybody runs x2 Wasteland? I get that there's alot of UU in the deck, Counterspell, Jace and Clique. I guess it's just reliably having enough colored lands then? The deck plays 24 lands and a mix of Mishra's Factory, Mutavault and Wasteland with one of Riptide Lab.
Anyway, I was just really just wondering about people playing x2 Waste, it seems like every single successful list plays x2, so I took notice of it and am curious about it. Any other deck critique or thoughts are definitely welcome! Would it be greedy to play x3 Factories? That would 7 colorless lands in total but it does seem really good, I haven't been able to test it enough yet, but if anyone else has tried I'd be interested to hear how it worked out for them.
Does anybody know what match-ups are bad for Blade Control? Are there any? (Surely, there must be?)
From my experience there are quite a few which are definitely NOT good.
1) Maverick: Every single card is a threat. Pre-Board very negative - postboard you have sweepers so its even. But mostly youll have to win G2+G3 to win the match...
2) Show and Tell: If not running black or red this MU is gonna be a pain in the ass. The HiveMind player got 8-10 Force of Will (Pact of Negation/Misdirection) and the SneakShow Player got Spell Pierces, Misdirections and Forces. Both decks have 2 outlets ( Show+Tell +HiveMind/SneakAttack) so yeah, a pretty straight UW Blade-Deck is going to have problems.
This are the two I can think of - but ofc there are many decks that are better than UW if their pilot is better (pretty obvious hu?)
So yeah, greetings
I think the worst matchup is actually dredge. Preboard very negative, postboard you can hope at least. But unless you draw multiple sideboard cards or surgical with snapcaster you will loose most of the time.
Plenty of decks run 3 Wasteland, if that's what you're asking. I think it's a question of mana base and meta. Our Wastelands are mostly for defense, not mana denial (unless you have a Crucible out), so I think it comes down to how many utility lands/man lands are a problem in your meta. You want to be able to waste things like Ith, Towers, Groves, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by snappingbowls | ಠ_ಠ
Isn't this the same situation with most decks against dredge? Lose game 1 and try to win games 2-3 with hate. You're going to mull until you hit some hate, so then it becomes a question of how well you time it, and how much you had to mull for it, and can you fix your draws.Quote:
Originally Posted by preddi
If Dredge is a real problem, you can always opt for Leylines, but I prefer Surgical. With 3 in the board, 4 Snapcasters, 4 Brainstorms, plus removal, I think you have a decent chance to grind them out, all else being equal.
How often is the second piece of equipment useful? How do you get it where the Batterskull wouldn't win you the game?
It seems to me that it should either be A) a second Batterskull or B) some other board control card that actually does something.
Pretty often if you face stuff like Tarmogoyf, Kotr, a big scavenging Ooze... a second batterskull is not necessary, you can't beat through them or block without losing your guy. I would also search for sword of feast and famine if i could get any profit of untapping my lands -to cast Elspeth+Jace for example, or simply if i must be untapped-.
The sword is also good against combo if you have some pressure and a good amount of life, since you can play with all you lands untapped in adition to disrupt a bit your opponent's hand.
The combination of Batterskull and Sword of Feast and famine seems to be the best build. In early game, with more reason if you are at G1 and you don't know what you're facing, batterskull is a great threat, but in the late game Sword has a lot of tricks and can stabilize the game against big green guys.
Sword of feast and famine also stops the batterskull germ! ;).
^^
PD. I'm sorry i missunderstood you, i thought you were takling about putting a secound batterskull instead of Soff.
I *am* talking about replacing the Sword of Feast and Famine or Jitte or whatever with a second Batterskull.
If you have two Batterskull, it stops germs cold. It stops most Oozes (and you can block and bounce/re-play the Germ), Knights and such.
Against combo, I found I just wanted Batterskull and then I never wanted to tap mana again.
I only play jitte as my second equipment as it turns creatures into killing machines while it is active. The only reason to ever search for the jitte is when I suspect the mystic to die and the equipment to be stuck in my hand for the forseeable future:/
An jitte on the board lets my factories pressure the opponent and turns any or my creatures from that moment on to be threats. A batterskull early can be thought seized away or stranded in my hand thanks to wasteland and friends.
When you have the mana, batterskull is the only card that should be fetched with mystic. Maybe a 2 skull 1 jitte plan will emerge as superior to what we are playing now but the protection from removal of light and shadow are too important to me at this moment.
P.s. I run 1 skull, 1 jitte and if need be 1 light and shadow.
I don't think a 2nd Batterskull is bad per se, but as others have pointed out, having a sword or jitte available gives you outs for when your SFM is removed and you can't (safely) hardcast the skull. SoFF lets you play through Choke and can be very useful with manlands (activate, equip, attack, untap, equip on a blocker). It's also something different, when you're facing a Runed Halo or Pithing Needle, for instance.
Combo tends to not have much removal, so I wouldn't necessarily use that as a general guide.
Personally, I'm not too keen on SoLS in Stoneblade. We don't run enough creatures to make its special ability of much use to us. Pro: White for what? StP? Run Geist and problem solved. Pro: Green is more relevant, IMO. I'm sure there are specific situations in which it's exceptional; but as much as the other non-standard sword, SoBM?
If you're worried about artifact hate on your Batterskull, there are other options, like Academy Ruins (also excellent with EE, if you're going that route); or not to play it out until you can also bounce it.
Hi there, I just built this deck a month ago and haven't had much experience with SB strategy. I usually go to a small local tourneys. My meta is mostly aggro (Goblins, Nic fit, white weenie, merfolk, NO bant) with an emergence of some RUG tempo, UW stoneblade and BUG control.
Based on this, I tuned my build to have answer for aggro environment.
Here is my list (UWR Version)
Creature (11)
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Snapcaster mage
3 Vendilion Clique
Spells (18)
2 Counterspell
4 Force Of Will
3 Spell Snare
4 STP
4 Brainstorm
1 Wrath Of God
Artifact (4)
1 Batterskull
1 SOBAM
2 Vedalken Shackles
Planeswalker (3)
3 JTMS
Lands (24)
Standard lists, just like anybody else, so I wont post it.
SB
3 Surgical extraction
3 REB
1 WOG
3 PTE
2 Disenchant
3 Spell Pierce
Here is my usual SB strategy:
VS Nic Fit
-4 Stoneforge
-1 BatterSkull
-1 JTMS
+1 WOG
+3 PTE
+2 Surgical
VS Gobbos
-3 Spell Snare
-1 FOW
+3 PTE
+1 WOG
VS NO Bant (Still Not Sure about this, please comment)
-3 Spell Snare
-4 SFM
-1 Batterskull
+3 REB
+3 Spell Pierce
+1 WOG
+1 PTE
VS Mirror (please comment on this)
-4 FOW
-1 WOG
+3 REB
+2 spell pierce
VS RUG tempo (Please comment on this)
-4 FOW
-1 WOG
+2 PTE
+3 REB
VS BUG control (Please comment on this)
+3 spell Pierce
-1 WOG
-1 SOBAM
-1 FOW
Thanks for reading and sharing comments.
Hello everyone!
I have been having alot of success on cockratrice with no planeswalkers in a standstill shell. I have been running 1x academy ruins 1x dust bowl 1x kjeldorian outpost 1x tolaria west 4x factories to give me huge game under a standstill. The outpost is quite amazing at helping kill planeswalkers in that a 1/1 token ever turn fills the board quickly.
Even against elspeth a 1/1 token a turn and one other creature can take her out. Against jace... He either has to use the -1 every turn or just brainstorm and the tokens.... Not typically a good idea. I have been finding the planeswalkers very win more in many matchups and sided out frequently.
The format is speeding up again and I feel that u/w blade has the tools to stay a dtb for quite some time. The snapcaster/mystic combo is just too strong.
My list btw:
4 snapcaster Mage
4 stoneforge mystic
1 batterskull
1 jitte
1 crucible of worlds
4 standstill
4 brainstorm
4 swords to plowshares
3 disenchants
4 force of will
3 spell snare
3 spell pierce
4 mishra's factory
1 kjeldorian outpost
1 academy ruins
1 tolaria west
1 dust bowl
4 flooded strand
3 tundra
3 islands
1 plains
3 polluted delta
1 riptide laboratory
Artifacts and enchantments are at an all time high right now and not having to waste countermagic on them game one is a huge boon. Between equipment, affinity, moxes, vials, orings and god knows what other schenanigans are played in legacy disenchants should be mainboardable. Against super fast aggro/burn they are the first cards to come out... Making side boarding easier;)
Btw.... Wraths main/sideboard seem like a crutch. 12+sword effects seem like enough against most aggro decks. If you are having trouble against non targetable creatures, try EE or wing shards as you can leave your small creature base intact.
Kjeldoran Outpost used to be the bomb back in the day. Today, I can't think of any reason I wouldn't rather have Elspeth. You only have 4 plains in your whole deck, and 3 of them are duals. How is Wasteland not eating you for breakfast?
Speaking of which, Dust Bowl instead of Wasteland? That sounds highly suspect. I don't want to have to tap out to kill a Grove or Maze.
I'd love Tolaria West if its transmute cost were 1mc instead of 3, or if Transmute at least had the speed of an instant. 3mc is just too high, IMO. If you want to tutor for lands, I suggest considering Bant and playing KotR.
As I am finding out, planeswalkers are very expensive and slow against many decks. The best uses for planeswalkers seems to be as late game bombs against other slower decks/decks that have ran out of steam.
The version I am working on can squeeze in extra relavent cards for the matchups that matter and operates the best under a standstill for card advantage when it matters.
The late game plan has been built into the mana base with only the crucible of worlds as a cast able card. The outpost will build an army to down planeswalkers(along with factories/weenies) and the dust bowl ensures you build an advantage the later the game goes on. I am not trying to out tempo anyone with wasteland, but I want to cripple an opponent when I need to.
With the 3 disenchants mainboard, I do not have to worry about other equipment decks, aka the mirror, and can use my land/standstill advantage to ride to victory. When you have the board stabilized it shouldn't matter what you win with, as long as you win.
On the mana costs, I only need white mana in single doses and only for a few cards. Many decks only run 2-3 basics and this one could easily fit in another plains. With most decks packing 2-3 wastelands I have been fine landing my outpost when I need to. Let alone when the time comes to drop the crucible and win the game.
On what matchup we want to side in Surgical Extraction? (I know that dredge and other GY decks are one of them).
The primer needs updating. All the talk about the strengths of Misstep versus various decks kind of dates it.
Punishing Fire is another.Quote:
Originally Posted by sadakiyo
My current list :
4 Flooded Strand
5 Island
3 Mishra's Factory
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Plains
1 Riptide Laboratory
1 Tropical Island (for EE)
3 Tundra
2 Wasteland
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Engineered Explosives
4 Brainstorm
1 Enlightened Tutor
4 Spell Snare
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Vedalken Shackles
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Force of Will
1 Batterskull
Sideboard:
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Path to Exile
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Cursed Totem
2 Disenchant
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Back to Basics
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Nevermore
The enlightened tutor approach is somewhat of an experiment, but I like it so far. The MD tutor targets are all cards I'm happy to see anyways, and it's nice to have such flexibility pre-board. Post-board it's meant to help in the most difficult MU : cage vs dredge, nevermore / bridge / canonist vs show&tell decks, and especially cursed totem against maverick. That last one has been incredible, it single-handedly dominates them unless they play grip / grudge (few do). I might cut a path or a disenchant for a 2nd tutor in the board. I'm also considering replacing B2B with blood moon. Opinions?
I side them in against RUG Tempo, being able to surgical away their Volcanic Islands early in the game is back breaking. So as being able to surgical away FOW or their lightning bolts or fire/ices.Quote:
Originally Posted by sadakiyo
I've tested a second Batterskull, and I prefer a SoFaF over it. Against an opposing skull mirrors against Maverick and Stoneblade, SoFaF saved me the game by disabling the opponent's Batterskull cold. Against Maverick, my SFM with SoFaF kept me in the game by holding off his token until I could remove it, he didn't have the mana to re-cast it if he ever put it back in his hand. Later, the same SFM was holding off his Gaddock Teeg with SoBaM, Jitte and BS equipped till I was able to top deck my way into removal. I got my removal for the Teeg and won the game from there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anusien
Against stoneblade, a SoFaF on a Spellstuter Sprite killed-off an opposing Jace and held-off an opposing germ token. I eventually got Elspeth online and rode her to an eventual victory.
In both cases, a batterskull wouldn't have kept me in the game for long especially against the Maverick opponent who eventually got multiple swords online to easily outclass my batterskull. Not to mention it kept him from geting his Jitte online as well. Against the stoneblade mirror, he eventually got his germ on a SoFaF and a bs instead of SoFaF would've lost me the game because of the protection given by his SoFaF.
A key advantage of SoFaF against an opposing bs is that they don't get to gain life from you blocking which is a key in keeping them from taking advantage in the game slowly by just gaining life.
Against combo, I haven't tested against it much I wouldn't think a second batterskull would make a difference if you can't tutor for it. If you can though, it would much rather get a SoFaF for the discard ability and for it being able at least a turn faster in being able to have an impact in the game.
@maelig:
with elspeth being the only spell with WW I see know need for basic plains #2 at all.
Even with 2 Wrath in the board I haven't had issues with a single basic plains.
I'd definitely replace it with a Windeswept Heath that way you're still able to fetch basic plains, as well as Tropical Island.
Give it a shot.
Good point, I'll try that.Quote:
Originally Posted by klaus
You can side out spell snare, they're utterly useless in this MU. On the other hand, I would never cut a jace which are so good against them, explorer allows you to play them early in the game and they have no good way to deal with it appart from pulse (or attacking if they get an aggressive enough board). I would also consider boarding in 1-2 disenchants, as they often play choke in the SB.Quote:
Originally Posted by sadakiyo
I think I would side out shackles and StP before FoW in the mirror. Thing is, there are some key spells that are worth fighting over (i.e. planeswalkers), and the CD isn't so bad since games often last long and you get the opportunity to hardcast FoW. Besides, with every creature having cip effects, StP is CD too.Quote:
Originally Posted by sadakiyo
While we're on SB strategies, has anyone tried Linvala as a 1 or 2 of against maverick (most likely replacing WoG)? It's unexpected and if they boarded out their StP (as they should in this MU) and you keep PF under control (OK, that's a big if) it basically gives you the game. Even if they can double PF, you can take the opportunity to kill the moms with the swords/path you've kept in hand before Linvala dies. It also gets you out of that horrible situation when there's both a mom and a teeg in play.
The selectiveness of Linvala's ability is nice, but the 4cc is a bit steep, IMO. I think I'd be more inclined to run Cursed Totem instead. While it effects us too, I think The impact is balanced against the Maverick player, cause we only have 4 creatures with an activated ability, and we can just hardcast our equipment when we need to. Meanwhile, it nullifies Qasali Pridemage's ability. While the totem is subject to artifact hate itself, it forces your opponent to (a) have an artifact hate spell, and (b) use it on the totem instead of our equipment. A deck relying on Pridemage is less likely to be bringing in much additional artifact hate (aside from more Pridemages), IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maëlig
I still can't decide in between soff, sobm and jitte as my 2nd equipment. Soff is best in the sfm batterskull mirrors and against goyfs and Co.
Sobm is really strong for building board position later in the game and also has very nice protection colours. I find that sobm really frustrates jace TMS and also destroys rug tempo. Fetching batterskull with sfm against rug tempo isn't great because sfm will get fried and hardcase batterskull is almost impossible against them. If you fetch sobm, it's easier to. Hardcast and is a bomb against rug. Pro all their creatures and having a token every turn really swings the game around.
Jitte on the other hand is better against tribal and burn decks. I guess it really boils down to the meta.
The thing that keeps me from considering SoBM is that there's just too many decks that interact with their graveyards (Dredge, Reanimator, various Snapcaster decks, even Enchantress) for me to want to help them. Having the wolf tokens would be nice, though. I don't find Pro:Blue that compelling... it protects your guy from Jace (and helps you kill him), more or less. It's not that that's bad, but overall, I think SoFF shares the more useful protection (Pro:Green) and the free land untap is fantastic, especially when you throw the sword on a Mishra's for attack.Quote:
Originally Posted by ivanpei
I've had mixed success with the Jitte, because it's so vulnerable, and I've had difficulty getting it charged that initial time. That may have more to do with my own substandard playing than its place in the deck, and its potential keeps me holding onto it. Right now, I'm playing both SoFF and Jitte main, although thinking of moving the Jitte to SB as I'm testing benching my Clique there as well.
I play Geist main, and I find him much more powerful with a SoFF than an uncharged Jitte (although with one charged, he is a beast).
I have been using SoF&I as my alternate gear to get aside from Batterskull and it is solid vs Izzet Delver, RUG, and many suit-o mirror matches that rely on Blue dudes. The card draw is solid to gain you serious card advantage, and the added damage fling is very versatile.
Anyway, I run SoF&F with Batterskull maindeck, and keep the SoF&I ready in the SB and it has helped in my meta.
Just saying.
I had SoFI in my SB since starting Stoneblade, but I just don't find myself bringing it in that often. The benefit of Geist is that he's immune to bolts, so almost any sword on him will be good just for the +2/+2. Against RU Delver, of course, but not much else. Do you side it in vs RUG Delver? Or Zoo? I don't think my current 75 has room for both Jitte and SoFI, so I'm eager to hear a compelling case for one over the other.Quote:
Originally Posted by SupREME-10
My meta has some Zoo, the mirror, Stone Bant, Enchantress, Dredge, Delver, Merfolk.
Quote:
Originally Posted by matunos
In this meta I'd DEFINITELY play SoFI over Jitte in the MD.
So is the consensus to play three equipment main deck with no Jitte?