If you are playing blue you are conceding that you want to combo ASAP with protection. Drop belcher for redundancy of helm. Jace would be a better secondary win con. Daze will give you some early game help
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If you are playing blue you are conceding that you want to combo ASAP with protection. Drop belcher for redundancy of helm. Jace would be a better secondary win con. Daze will give you some early game help
@lemon Is there a certain aspect of tempo that you’re having issues with?
Mainly that there seem to be a lot of bad top deck cards if that makes sense. For example, drawing a RiP, Scroll Rack, or Land Tax by itself feels really bad, especially in multiples. Then when they counter the second half of the combo I've found I'm hard pressed to keep up enough of a defense to rebuild.Quote:
Originally Posted by Weapon X
I did try out the dazes, and I really enjoy them so far. I think I'm going to see if anyone local has some Enlightened Tutors I can borrow to try out, or maybe go to a red splash for World's Edge and try that route. Once the engine gets going the deck is bonkers, it just feels very lackluster without, so I'm hoping the Enlightened Tutors will help with that some.
The real draw to enlightened tutor is the ability to play silver bullets. Like you even said, the deck is bonkers when the engine is going, so the bullets let you get there. It’s actually why I don’t like the blue splash. Counters make the engine less relevant. Blue essentially makes you pure combo. The only reaction you need is on your winning turn. I play Wr so the engine helps recoup all the inherit card disadvantage that we play. Combined with prison/bullet elements you gain inevitablity. The longer the game goes the more you are assured to win. Blue should make you more of a laser beam. You can be more focused and protect yourself which isn’t really what the parfait engine lends itself too. Maybe just keeping this in mind will help you against tempo.
This was very helpful. I've been playing the deck like a UW Control list, almost like landstill. Do you have an up to date WR list I could look at? The pillow fort\prison element was what drew me to UW in the beginning.Quote:
Originally Posted by Weapon X
@Weapon X :
Same question than Lemon, did you change your list with the W&6/Oko meta?
BDI parfait
16 plains
3 mountains
3 mox diamond
2 helm of obedience
2 rest in peace
1 goblin charbelcher
4 land tax
3 scroll rack
1 zuran orb
4 path to exile
4 orim’s chant
3 wrath of god
3 oblivion ring
4 enlightened tutor
1 blood moon
1 ghostly prison
1 solitary confinement
1 pithing needle
1 humility
1 trinisphere
1 ivory tower
Sideboard
1 Baneslayer angel
1 phyrexian revoker
2 ethersworn cannonist
1 elspeth Knight-errant
1 Nahiri, the harbinger
2 red elemental blast
2 leyline of sanctity
2 timely reinforcements
1 aura of silence
1 rest in peace
1 council’s judgement
I do still run my splits on some cards, but this makes for easier typing and reading. Otherwise good ole rock. Nothing beats rock.
I guess Parfait is still looking for an efficient way get rid of PWs (ie: better than O-ring).
O ring and needle are the main ways game 1 so a more efficient way would be great. Game 2 combat can become an option among others. Councils judgement is probably the most useful card
I just read The Parameter of Land Tax in Legacy and the author was pretty positive on Tax Rack ("will be a very successful deck") and got me excited to build the deck.
Now I came here and I wonder why this thread is still in the new/developmental forum after such a long time, which makes me feel that it's no "real" competitive deck, even after seven years of developing.
Isn't Tax Rack as good as the article made it or why isn't this deck considered an "established" deck?
I haven’t read that article, but I’ve claimed this deck viable since the unbanning of tax. To me it’s more a player base issue. Mono white, especially creatureless, is considered bad by the masses so why even play it when you can play blue? In the end it’s a fringe deck that can put up numbers, but it has zero to minimal representation globally. Combine that with it having punishing decision trees at times also means you need skilled players piloting it to have a chance to shine.
Hello All!
Long time lurker first time poster. I've been working on Parfait for a long time and I've tried to push the deck into a new interesting direction just to add my own spice to the deck building options.
https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/chic...?cb=1573103837
Here's my current deck list:
Land
2x Forest
4x Grove of Burnwillows
3x Lotus Field
5x Mountain
6x Plains
Sorcery
2x Life from the Loam
2x Sevinne's Reclamation
3x Terminus <
Planeswalkers
2x Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1x Wrenn and Six
Enchantment
4x Land Tax
3x Oblivion Ring <
3x Seismic Assault
1x Sylvan Library
4x Enlightened Tutor
4x Path to Exile
4x Punishing Fire
3x Mox Diamond
1x Mox Opal
3x Scroll Rack
-------------------------
I would describe this as a weird mid-range combo deck and I'm pretty happy with most of the design of this deck. Terminus and O-Ring I feel are the weakest links in the deck particularly against aggro / counterspell decks. The combination of Tax / Rack / Seismic Assault / Lotus Field / Sevinne's Reclamation are pretty strong and almost inevitable even against most counterspell decks given a long enough timeline. I also like the fact that I don't need Tax to hit the board in this parfait deck to run which is a crutch in many parfait decks. Seismic Assault / Loam / W6 are strong on their own right without Land Tax. I also like the fact that I can slowly recur land into my deck using Life from the Loam and Scroll Rack whilst drawing new cards. Furthermore, with a resolved Land Tax and Seismic Assult with a Life from the Loam in hand I can smash 12 damage in 1 turn. Chandra and Punishing Fire help add extra win conditions as well as provide additional sources of direct damage / mana / synergies. There are other synergies in the deck that are also quite nice that I don't really need to speak to.
So I'm basically looking for any suggestions for replacing Terminus &or Oblivion Ring as well as sideboard choices.
Terminus is only really good with Scroll Rack and can be hard cast with my sources of mana and is sometimes nice when it shows up unexpectedly. O-Ring is basically good with E-tutor and Sevinne's Reclamation and can target walkers as well as artifacts and enchantments but can be a slow investment that sucks when countered since it can only be cast on your turn.
I would happily consider any suggestions that could add value to the already present synergies or outside of the box alternative plans that could present interesting directions for the deck.
*Note: color and mana cost concerns- I have found between Land Tax, Lotus Field, and Mox Diamond I can nearly always cast the cards in my hand with little or no problems. It does make you susceptible to color problems at times with a bad hand. Luckily, London mulls help greatly in this regard and usually I have a card or two I'm happy to deposit at the bottom of my deck such as an O-ring or Terminus.
The whole reason for the parfait engine is to gain incremental advantage over the course of the game. It just feels out of place with what you seemingly want to do. Enlightened tutor also feels like a wasted slot. Seismic assault feels like a trap all the time, I’d sooner run borborygmos as a one card engine/win con based on what you’re attempting.
Terminus is replaceable by wrath. Oring could be councils judgment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by beebles_elbow
First I really like the fact that you're trying to take Tax/Rack into a new direction and that's cool.
There are several cards I would like to mention:
— Lotus Field. I find this choice bold and interesting, considering it makes you lose a turn and it leaves you stone cold dead to Blood Moon. But I can see the appeal in a Land Tax deck.
— Seismic Assault: Like Weapon X said, it looks like a trap. :r::r::r: is quite a lot in a three-colors deck and it doesn't kill fast enough. There are probably better things to do in this spot.
— Sevinne's Reclamation. I really like this one. I do believe this is Legacy playable and you might have find the best deck for it.
Also, I like what you're trying to do with the Pws (Chandra and W&6). And since PWs strategies are at an all-time high, I wonder if there wouldn't be a way to bring Parfait into a planewalkers-heavy version, with Pws we don't see in Legacy enough because too expensive (Nahiri, the Lithomancer comes to mind). Grind machines are the best way to get incremental advantage after all.
That being said, I do agree with Weapon X. The longer the game last, the best you engine becomes, and it especially fit a deck that tries to lock the opponent out of the game. Your version seems a bit out of place, or rather, it looks like a Naya lands.dec where you just added the Parfait engine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aedemiel
Thanks for some positive feedback :)
Although I don't feel a need to argue the merits of Seismic Assault, I have been testing the deck for quite some time and I feel Lotus Field is pretty amazing in the deck. It can't be targeted and if someone (including you) Moon's it you wind up fetching your colors off of Land Tax anyways so really it doesn't actually slow you down to any degree; particularly if you wait to play it at the end of turn after you've resolved a Land Tax, or spells for turn, or just wind up pitching it to Mox Diamond. Most players (Delver) if they let you resolve Land Tax it is off of the assumption that you have a greedy land base and need lots of lands whilst they can sit there happy with 1 or two land. I think there is merit in just about any Parfait deck as a 1-of way of reducing land creep without wasting a card slot, increasing mana base, meanwhile allowing for color fixing. And did I mention it gives you three? So yeah tap a land resolve Trinisphere, tap a land resolve Ghostly Prison.... Even in Weapon X's Parfait build I could see fit for a 1-of Lotus Field.
Sevinne's Reclamation is strong for Parfait because it allows you recur directly into play, and it sucks to have to waste counterspells on such a card. Particularly since you can flashback two copies and will have to counter both to keep the thing off of the battlefield. This allows for more streamlining deck building design (if combo is your thing), as well as provides additional information about the opponent when you attempt to cast SR. So paying 5 for flashback is pricey but not if it allows you to continue building towards your overall strategy. If you are playing a 2-card combo or prison style Parfait I feel SR is a necessity somewhere in the 75 (assuming your main pieces are all 3 cmc or less). Obviously its not as great if you main RIP, but you could reduce the count of RIPs with SR.
The thing there is that if a delver player lets you resolve a tax it’s because they can play their deck off of 1 land. So you may get one activation of tax if you’re lucky. That’s why I play trinisphere. Legacy is all about that stream lined efficiency so trinisphere can force land drops and thus tax activations. Even if it just slows the game down a touch, that gives us time to slowly close the door.
Lotus field feels an even bigger trap then seismic assault. Lands are our main resource after all so sacrificing them to play a land that doesn’t really benefit us seems like a bad idea.
Sevinnes reclamation seems good. It does not slot well into the rip/helm plan, both cards of which have merit beyond their combo potential. I could see it with the approach the second sun plan I had considered. That build could very easily be mono white and play some of the cuter cards like lotus field.
The more I think about this, the more I think you're right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Weapon X
Playing Lotus Field means you are forced to play your lands within the first 2 turns, meaning you will probably lose a Tax activation.
Like beebles_elbow says, maybe it's playable as a 1-of but it's still a dead card in the first two turns and it looks terrible in the opening hand.
Yeah, Sevinne's Reclamation looks nice on paper, but I think we don't want to play that right now. Especially since RiP is so good against so many stuff on the field and Helm is still the best "Oops-I-win" button in Legacy.
However the card could be powerfull enough to play with differents strategies.
What was you Second Sun build?
I never really fleshed it out, but the prospect of playing 2 approach for a win con felt extremely powerful with the parfait engine. I think it also opens up the deck to sol lands which I don’t feel are otherwise needed. I saw it as a more spell based build that takes greater advantage of the classic no stick. Essentially the prison elements become pure control. The engine is there more so to help recover from the 1 for 1 attrition.
Along with Dreadstill, Parfait was another deck that I always admired from afar but never played. It'll be awhile before I can build the list on paper, but had some questions ideas for the Parfait regs, based on Weapon X's list a few posts back. Been reading back through this thread, have made it back to late 2018 so far.
From what I understand, Parfait uses Land Tax/Scroll Rack similar as a card drawing engine, then uses that card advantage to answer threats and slowly lock opponents out, then combo out (3sphere, PtE, GPrison, Humility and team -> Helm/Belcher). Thinking about the Surgical Extraction test, what does the deck do without the engine?
1. Experience with Scroll of Fate in Dreadstill makes me believe that it is a fantastic single-card engine to turn dead and sub-optimal draws into a resource. Given the "silver-bullet" nature of Parfait, I would assume that there are many times in G1 where cards (redundant Taxes, lands, dead bullets) may just sit in hand. Weakens Ivory Tower, but strengthens Humility.
-1 Land Tax/ +1 Scroll of Fate
2. Does Karn, the Great Creator not have a place in this deck in the main? He randomly hates on problematic artifacts, can give redundancy to combo pieces by hiding them in the sideboard, and turns off enemy moxen/forces them to play more lands; seems like a natural pairing if the intent of Parfait is to slow things down. With no Wasteland, pairing him with Liquimetal Coating out of the side enables him to snipe lands if Tax no longer needs to be activated and makes him a finisher in his own right that is immune to Decay. There's the obvious Mycosynth Lattice pairing that's possible, but that seems excessive with so many prison elements already in place.
- 1 Wrath, -1 Ivory Tower or Zorb / +2 Karn
SB:
- Liquimetal
- Ensnaring Bridge (if Scroll is Main)
- 13 slots whatever you need for your meta, 11 if you hide redundant Helm/Charbelcher.
Just some off hand thoughts I had while reading the thread, I've done no testing of the above cards in a Parfait list, only speaking from experience with their use in Dreadstill. Keep alive the (mostly) MonoW dream!
Without any Dreadnought/Morph synergy Scroll of Fate doesn't seem very good.
If you draw a situational card the plan is to use the Rack/Tax engine to shuffle it away. If you want to play a 3 mana permanent that makes 2/2s then why not just aim for 1 more mana and play Gideon Ally of Zendikar for example
Karn seems like an okay idea but it's still a deck with no Sol Lands or acceleration except Diamond, and putting tutor bullets in the sideboard either makes E-Tutor worse or now you have e.g. 1 Zuran Orb main and 1 Zuran Orb side which cuts into your deck space quite a lot
I just want to quote one line from you, “redundant taxes.”
Taxes stack. It seems like the world forgets that. That makes ivory tower better when you add six cards to your 7 card hand and makes rack digging better. All cards in the deck act as a resource because of scrol rack.
And to touch on surgical: rest in piece. But I actually used to build with regard to meddling mage. That’s why there are similar cards like REB and pyroblast in my list. That said our card quality is strong so we do too deck we’ll. But by playing toolbox you are always open to drawing the wrong card at the wrong time. That’s where redundancy on key cards fits.
Also to reiterate. The biggest strength of parfait is its ability to blank a lot of your opponents cards.
It's been a while since I last played but I feel trimming etutor is the way to go. When you get matched against a counterspell deck you often run out of things to jam. Daze is often a hard counter as we can either pay 1 and not be able to cast our threat or don't pay it and bet opp has no more counters. Karn seems like a good compromise as it's still a tutor but not card disadvantage. It's probably safe to play 2 of it main without needing ancient tomb.
In today's meta I would also run 3 rip maindeck since you want it quite often on T2 without spending a tutor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Weapon X
Thank you both for the insight. I have no problem admitting I know next to nothing about this particular archetype and was more or less posting initial reactions to modern lists. There's no reason for me to have missed that Taxes stack but there you have it.Quote:
Originally Posted by kombatkiwi
I understand that adding U essentially is an admission you're trying to combo-off as fast as you can, which pushes the deck in a different direction. I'll put up a different list over the weekend with your comments in mind.
In my experience testing a non-parfait enchantments deck this seems accurateQuote:
Originally Posted by Cpt-Qc
Playing so many cards that are minus-1 on resolution (tutor) is a risky proposition and I imagine it's very hard to dig yourself out of that hole if the opponent can disrupt your landtax engine
Hello all. Since the MTGS thread is only Weapon X and me, thought I would post my current list and thinking. Have not parfaited for a while till recently, and I finally bought it out this week in a local FNM and it won me a foil oko (well a premium promo pack with the Oko in).
Thoughts- always enjoyed R splash, but I am always prepared to drop sacred cows - I even dropped swords down to 1 and 2 when my meta became oddly full of nothing but Miracles.
Anyway those days are gone.
Thoughts on today
(1) Oko is everywhere, so multiple answers to OKO are needed. Enchantments are at an all time high in terms of usability, artifacts less so. Humility is especially good.
(2) Astrolabe is everywhere
(3) Veil of summer is insanely good, but it is useless against us.
(4)Blood moon is at an all time nadir- Astrolabe says - "so what?"
(5) Bin removal is very strong now
(6) walkers are at an all time high-karn gtc, teferi, oko
The top combo decks are Depths, SnT, Storm, Dredge, Reanimator
The top control decks are 4 c good stuff
the beatdown decks are the usual crew minus dragon stompy as moon is just not pulling its weight.
here is my list.
I have tried a green rather than red splash
Veil is nuts, and I have cut one orim's for it, giving 5 ways to force the combo through. This slightly helps the card disadvantage we suffer too, replacing itslelf and getting an effect in one form or other.
I have put 3 city of traitors in, I used to have two and never regretted, it saves on fiddle border posts and brings the combo on earlier than they expect. It also can help manage the land count for land tax.
Chalice is always an issue, I run 3 O ring effects main, and the cities help land those 4cc haymakers early, meaning I don't have as much at 1cc as I have in some other builds.
My other green splash is a solitary sylvan, which can again grab some of our disadvantage back and there are a few shuffle effects.
Karn is especially powerful, I use two, and wonder on a third. The only reason I do not have it is because I don't want to put too many eggs in one basket against revoker decks, but it means I never run out of helms if he is active and RIP is down. He also gives a massive wishboard to hurt OKo.
He shuts off astrolabe, of course, but the main use is yet more combo material and even more versatile control, as well as animating chalice, giving 5 main deck ways of killing chalice.
Abrupt decay/Trophy in response to the combo has been very prevalent in my meta, and Veil helps here. I literally know that in whatever ten-fifteen-twenty player event in whichever city I will face a couple of dnt where veil useless, the odd goblins once in a blue moon, the odd chalice/eldrazi or stax decks and everything else will have discard, decay or counters, especially the former.
I have a lot of depths, and run 2 karakas, I would love to crop rotate but I don't have a good enough land package, and already have a karn wish package.
9 plains
1 forest
2 windswept heath
2 karakas
1 savannah
3 city of traitors
4 mox diamond
4 land tax
4 swords to plowshares
3 orim's chant
2 veil of summer
3 enlightened tutor
1 cursed scroll
1 sylvan library
4 rest in peace
3 scroll rack
1 sorcerous spyglass
1 banishing light
1 oblivion ring
1 gideon, of the trials
1 phyrexian unlife
1 cast out
1 moat
2 humility
2 karn, the great creator
1 helm of obedience
1 elspeth, knight errant
board
4 leyline of sanctity (storm, painter, burn, pox, depths)
1 choke (4 col good stuff, show/tell, and miracles, delver etc.)
1 rule of law (elves, storm, omni-tell, belcher, bomberman, food chain etc.)
1 peacekeeper (I used to have two for those matches where a deck won't bring in removal like Infect, but now Oko says no to often, so it is for reanimator, oko-less elves etc.)
1 kor haven (for matches where they have karn, as an extra land, and for depths, maverick, d n t, infect)
wish board
1 pithing needle
1 trinisphere
1 cursed totem
1 zuran orb
1 torpor orb
1 mycosynth lattice
1 helm of obedience
In most games, Gideon, Elpseth, Phyrexian Unlife, are on the chopping block, and then scroll, swords depending. Unlife I only keep as I see a lot of 20/20s, sometimes one sneaks through before it is dealt with.
Orings are very versatile, and the ability to cast them t2 is invaluable, and thanks to Mox + city it happens a lot.
I often board in the totem/needle effects, sometimes leylines, but normally leave the one helm/lattice sideboard. Trinisphere rarely comes in, but it does work from the board.
As ever, the deck can deal with everything, and right now Humility, O rings, Rule of law are especially strong. I have tried to add a bit less disadvantage in with Sylvan and Veil.
The best match ups are as ever show and tell, depths is better than ever, d n t good, reanimator RB can be too fast, and storm as usual is about orims, Karn, and now veil until boarding. The miracles match (bant miracles) is easier than it was as the old UW or UWr counterbalance match. Those astrolabes can hurt them when Karn comes down early and they have not got the correct mana at the right time.
Elspeth is still there from the old build, no longer with Nahiri as there is no red. She adds pressure and it has to be said, once in a blue moon gives an animated trinisphere or whatever a +3+3 and flying when humility is down. Fun times.
Wishing you all a happy Christmas.
Green seems very interesting since veil indeed. You might think about adding City of Solitude to replace 3ball (stronger and also immune to oko/shatter effects).
You could probably run 3x chant and 3x veil maindeck. Worst case scenario they let you push through lock pieces and best case they draw you a card while doing so.
The main issue with city is that I play the deck as a control deck as much as a combo deck- it is a versatile deck which is the beauty- often running out hate pieces, the draw engine combo, and o ring effects before going for the win, unless veil/orim's is in hand to force it, and I have a number of effects at instant speed that often get deployed in that style- control the game then win- 3 tutor, although they are often cast post tax search, cast out potentially, orim'sx3 , 2 veil, 4 swords and potentially bluffing crop rotation too, even though I do not run it. If I took the orim's out and brought in city against blue decks, that would work, I am not sure if I don't prefer Veil against a lot of decks, and veil is not good with it. 3sphere certainly does not often come in against a lot of decks you would expect it to, ones that it was an auto include when it was R splash, and normally nowadays it stays in the karn wishboard.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cpt-Qc
Rule is often better than 3sphere against storm and certain combo, although I will bring in both against combo, but against 4 colour oko I bring in just choke for the dead unlife, leaving in elspeth, gideon that are quite weak against a lot of decks but decent against 4 colour control.
I am definitely considering 3 Veil, kor haven in the board feels wrong. I know that with one forest, 2 fetch, 1 savannah, 4 mox d I can support 2 veil. with one fewer fetches I can only support one at best, which is how haven ended up in the board. I used to dread miracles but bant miracles and snow control are much better with karn in my deck.
gideon, of the trials is interesting, vs wich decks it shine more? never hear of it in this thread...sorry my bad english
Gideon works against different decks in different ways. It is a quite good card in a lot of situations.Quote:
Originally Posted by Telim Tor
Against certain combo decks a t2 gideon buys a turn via the emblem. Belcher is an example, the two storm decks others, where having him down means they have to win the game and then deal with him.
Against control decks his job is to threaten enemy walkers. Just having him down can mean you cab use the orims to blank spells, forcing through damage from Gideon in the same turn as dropping a combo piece. Cards like Lilly LH and OTV are pressured by it.
A 4cc Jace has to +2 to get out of range, and +2 is not the best against a L tax/scrack/sylvan deck anyway. Potentially with Karn turning things and with Elspeth in some combination, most walkers can be pressured at least, and the switch on/off ability and careful play can really make them hard to remove. This is why one must be careful with Moat.
Against beatdown decks like Eldrazi and Infect it is good at buying time.
It really is just a flexible card. Game two it comes out quite often.
The main use is probably pressurising Walkers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by drmarkb
Played Parfait at fnm last night to a 3-1 record.
r4 beat Bant snow-oko miracles
r3 beat aggro pox
r2 lost to depths
r1 beat show and tell
Gideon did a lot of work in the s and t g2, with the board nearly locked via 2x humility, needle, 3 sphere, rule of law (both vs the active omniscience) effects etc, a boarded keranos was eating life, circumventing Humility as it was not a critter, and gideon dealt with it until I could execute the win. It also was relevant against Miracles g1 and 3, which I won in on t4 executing the combo, but only after gideon had removed my opponent's chance of beating me to death with active food tokens.
Elspeth was again v decent in the miracles match, coming down to finish an Oko that had nerfed scroll rack, and using up valuable resources.
Sadly I was outplayed in the depths match, both on the board- I could have won G2 had I chosen the correct Karn option- and the boarding- the match is harder than regular build of medium depths as it has something like 9 or 10 kill spells for lock pieces after boarding- 4 decay, 4 trophy and even golgari charms.
Karn is still amazing, and the veils are obscenely good even if situational. 2 humility is the way forward in an oko world.
Idea: UWg Parfait with Astrolabe, Oko & Veil
Thoughts: Daze was fun, but Veil is better. City of Traitors always worked well with Land Tax, and City also works well with Astrolabe to power out a Teferi or Oko on turn 2. City also helps playing Karn, and it's worth a copy of Liquimetal Coating in the side, which coupled with Oko allows for Elking any permanent. 6 mana for Lattice is very possible as well. So whole deck seems to have lots of powerful permanents orbiting each other in ways that do you well.
Problems: The deck is way too full. Right now Jace, Narset, Teferi, Karn & Oko all want to resolve, and I think some disciplined cuts might make a single, better game plan flourish. If it does become just "Planeswalker Control the Deck", Energy Field & Web of Inertial starts to wane in usefulness.
Thoughts welcome
Someone posted a link to a "tiramisu" primer on Reddit:
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/tiram...ekarn-parfait/
What do you guys think?
I prefer City of T over Tombs- they work better with land tax - the deck can grind and the lands get tapped a lot.Quote:
Originally Posted by jubeininja69
I used to play Zuran main until Karn GTC- at that point it is a sideboard card for me. Never looked back. Karn into zuran on the same turn is a great line sometimes- the zuran won't get dazed if Karn did not.
Ivory tower and Zuran's life gain are basically redundant against fast combo, and redundant against control- you can't beat a monastery mentor crew for very long with them, you beat those cards by removing them. Life gain is useful against Delver and DS tempo type lists, but Parfait has a decent match there anyway- or at least ones not running tombs do. Zuran's main use is in getting the scrack/LT combo going. I am wondering if the deck could use Mox opal over Grim monolith with a few tweaks. Tower is troubling for me nowadays- the deck has no issues when Land tax/Scrack is working, and when land tax is not working tower does nothing. I like the Zuran/Tower but in a Karn world I would not maindeck Tower ever. In the current meta Karn is everywhere, so I would like to see more ways of winning and removing opposing karns, because opposing Chalice and Karn will be GG in short order.
No Orims' I can understand- it is a superb card when forcing the combo through and superb against enemy combo, and can buy a key turn against so much- I can see E tutor into DS doing a similar role there in terms of shutting down a storm style deck. I will always play Orim's myself in some number. It is less efficient when Trinisphere is down, so I can see why this list cuts it.
Wasteland is interesting- it opens up the self waste plan to switch on a scrack/LT combo, but generally wasting enemy lands is not working with LT, and Humility Painter is a nonbo if Humility is down first.
With this list I wonder if RW painter offers more tricks/tech to be borrowed, I am not that familiar with that deck in today's meta.
I think Karn and Sol lands are the way ahead for the deck, regardless of splash and builds. It needs soem combo too- RIP helm, painter or even Opalescence/Wave or Solemnity/Depths.
I have issues with him starting by saying white doesn’t have card advantage. That’s wrong. Wrath is card advantage. Tax is card advantage by itself. This makes him seem unreliable to me.
He says Land Tax rectifies the lack of CA, so clearly for some reason he is not referring to Land Tax as part of white in general, and suggesting LT runs against white's natural lack of CA.
I think he means card draw rather than advantage.
Balance was a poster child for white CA, and mass removal in general was very white as noted. Cards that say X can't be cast e.g. Nevermore or similar can be CA too. Karn can be CA.
I once played a bug player who commented on me effectively drawing 6 a turn, saying his brainstorms seemed a bit weak in comparison.
Added another 3-1 FNM performance, 3rd from 15.
Beat Bant Miracles 2-1, in turns from 1-0 down. Lost the first to an Oko, basically, needed to dig with scrack and get lucky to resolve a Moat- got the moat but not the land I needed, i would have had the game had I got it as he was out of cards nearly.
Beat D n t, 2-0 which was only a little close in game 2, it is an easy match if they don't know all your tricks.
Lost to infect, which was close game 1, really needed a faster start- I had to develop a board vs Oko IIRC, thought I was fine having whittled the opposing hand down by requiring a huge number of things to be forced, but died tapped out with a sword in hand as he brainstormed to get the beserk/invigorate. Perhaps I was gambling a bit. Game 2 I opened with Skite via Mox t1 , and Peacekeeper soon after. A force of vigor happened then on my Mox/Sklite, my next drop was to be Karmic Justice, which would have been cool. Failed to draw a STP, Moat or Tutor and was nibbled to death v slowly after Oko munched a peacekeeper.....
Beat UR delver, 2-0 iirc, him being unfortunate game 1 with poor draw/mulligans, although the match is generally favourable. Elspeth and Gideon did work in this one, most of the good stuff being countered.
My current list. With no paper mtg since September ( I did not play Parfait anyway then), I have done very little- I use X mage to play with friends, and that is about it. That said I feel that Parfait is a deck that needs updating both to match the expected and actual meta. I normally play it in a 30-40% blue meta, with a disproportionate amount of unfair combo and chalice decks, but I always like to try and get a build I am happy with for a bluer more MTG-O-KO meta as it has become, even if I will play far fewer blue piles when and if paper restarts.
My current build
2 ancient tomb
1 city of traitors
9 plains
1 forest
1 savannah
2 windswept heath
2 karakas
1 maze of ith
4 mox diamond
1 zuran orb
4 land tax
4 swords to plowshare
2 veil of summer
2 orim's chant
3 enlightened tutor
1 sorcerous spyglass
4 rest in peace
1 sylvan library
3 scroll rack
1 oblivion ring
2 gideon of the trials
3 karn, the great creator
2 humility
1 moat
1 helm of obedience
1 cast out
board
wish board-
1 zuran orb
1 juntu stakes
1 meekstone
1 helm of obedience
1 mycosynth lattice
1 torpor orb
1 pithing needle
1 ethersworn canonist
3 holy light
1 ghostly prison
1 deafening silence
1 choke
1 nine lives
2 cards I am always considering
crop rotation- because of rotate into karakas/maze. This would necessitate a likely additional land base change to include wasteland or GQ. I don't feel this offers enough.
court of grace- because those flyers go really well with moat- and this deck can lock oppositions out of attacks forever, meaning that once monarch hits that is it, and you draw loads. Monarch is really hard for this deck to beat, in reverse, of course, unless the LT/Rack is up, in which case 3 a turn beats 1 extra anyway. The only decks running monarch are palace jailer decks, where I am very favoured, but I would be deeply sorry to see court of cunning decks start to run amok and might turn to this.
here are my latest changes/thinking
Ancient tomb/City:
I now run 2:1. I do not know if it is right, but it does not cost too much life wise on average, and I now back to running a zuran main , so I will take the extra damage over1:2
Zuran:
I run 1 main one side. Simply put I see as much if not more UR delver than blue-soup snowco piles, it is often essential for generating the scrack in that match up in particular. My last paper mtg event (Sept) had 24 player entry cap and at least two UR delver, maybe 3. With my meta also having d n t, which can also sometimes run off the vial and prevent me Taxing, I feel more comfortable with one of these. I have won many games with 3 mox and a solitary land, even if I dropped more over the course of the game.
karn GTC
I tried with two and always wanted 3. It simply beats elspeth in that last 4 cc slot, and sadly by some way. It is just so, so good, and can lock stuff out with lattice as well as providing a tool box and a half.
helm: I used to do 2 main and one side and it is pointless. Helm wins with RIP, and is ok on its own. But with karn able to nick helm from exile, 2 is enough in the 75. Lattice can also lock the game (as long as you are not screwing up and animating it with humility down so that it loses its ability), and karn into lattice wins as many as the more imediate helm.
Moat
Damn this card is soooooo good against Oko. It is so often MVP, which is odd as it used to often come out in pre-2020 days. Now there are very few matches I board it out against.
Humility
This card is not good vs Oko. Rely on it and you end up with a bunch of 3/3s. If choosing off a scrack I will prioritse karn into needle or a spyglass over this card if oko is a remote possibility ( I run a 1/1 split on the needle effects main/side). I could even get behind dropping this down to one, finding room for something else, but it does funtion with my board.
Gideon OTT
with so many quicks wins via stuff like Thassa's Oracle, these are just essential, I have settled on two. I board one out vs slower decks, they, and humility, are my only main hope vs decks trying to oracle a win. Great vs storm too, which has never been a bad match
karn wishboard
-meekstone- I am so set on this that I am going to be buying a beta one. The number of times Karn slips down and one of these along side- it is beautiful. Obviously not good vs an active Oko, but if it is an inactive Oko this card does work, especially against delvers.
juntu stakes
This card is really a junk level rare that keeps saving my arse, I tried it for specific matches as an experiment and found myself fetching it too often to be a fluke. With two humilities main deck it is really useful way more than it should be- I used to get beaten to death by 1/1s post humility every now and then, and now I don't- it does cost at 2cc, but it is urprisingly good vs d n t and infect too, both of which exist in my meta, and I have even fetched it from the karn-wish-board vs maverick to good effect. I cannot ever seeing me drop what is an incredibly bad card that perfectly plugs the gap in the deck
ghostly prison
the card I want to include maindeck as it slows the delver decks down considerably, as well as d nt, eldrazi and dredge. Sadly it never quite makes it main nowadays as it is largely dead vs almost all the chalice decks, show n tell, lands , depths and elves, all of which are in my meta.
nine lives
pure and simply there for infect and depths decks, nothing much else, they can't beat it easily if it resolves
torpor orb
-see oracle, basically, plus d n t and elves- and yes, I bring it in rather than trying to karn it as that is too late normally.
holy light
easy to cast with the sol lands, it can wrath elves, and nerf infect. It is also good vs pyromancer if the UR delver decks run them, but it is a bad call otherwise. Humility can make it powerful, but if I am needing to get a 4cc enchantment down to make it work then it should not be coming in. If I need to find a slot it is with the third one of these
I have dropped Leyline of Sancity completely, it was good against storm but I have action vs storm anyway (1 deafening silence, 1 canonist, 2 veil,2 gideon, rip, 2 Orim's even and karn's static ability) , and once upon a time you could bring it in vs Nic Fit or Burn etc. I still love the card in boards for things like white stax or whatever, but not here.
I realise my build may not be ideal for every meta, but it does have good matches vs snowko, RUG and similar oko decks. I have been at 65-70 pc win ratio in paper for a long time, admittedly hugely benefiting by knowing the composition of half the room and opponents not always having encountered the deck. I don't believe in sacreed cows- bar Tax etc.- I once dropped swords down considerably and replaced a couple with unexpectedly absent when I found them dead game after game- so I am always happy to chop things if they are failing, even if they later get restored (as, of course, swords did a couple of months later when people started playing proper mtg again).
I've been talking myself in circles about brewing a UW Parfait list using the new Court of Cunning and Court of Grace. Cunning seems like a slam dunk under Rest in Peace, no accidentally powering up Loam or something like the decks I've seen running it online. Grace plays nice with Moat and seems as good as most of the Gideon planeswalkers we were running as token fodder/beat pivots. Energy Field keeps the Monarch going.
I've got a list that's bursting at the seams, going to try and make some cuts and test out this Friday or next Wednesday. Anybody left up for a brew?
Check out my bumbleberry pie thread. It originally started as a parfait list due the synergy between land tax and aminatou/ravens crime. The mana was a bit too crazy so I ended up going to a snow-Miracles shell instead but maybe you can get some ideas.Quote:
Originally Posted by PirateKing
Well I basically dropped Parfait, as soon as Oko became a staple.Quote:
Originally Posted by PirateKing
The fact that this guy deals with Mox Diamond (our acceleration) and Scroll Rack (our engine) makes it the perfect answer against us.
So, I think my question would be: How do you deal with Oko (and FIRE design in general)?