Yes to your first question. And DRS is fine if you want another mana dude.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Crow's Eye
Printable View
Yes to your first question. And DRS is fine if you want another mana dude.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Crow's Eye
If anyone listened to the latest Everyday Eternal podcast, they discussed a Junk Nic Fit build that one of the hosts has been running lately:
1 Eternal Witness
1 Reclamation Sage
4 Siege Rhino
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Thragtusk
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
4 Veteran Explorer
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Swords to Plowshares
1 Zealous Persecution
4 Cabal Therapy
1 Council's Judgement
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Recurring Nightmare
1 Dryad Arbor
22 land
4 Siege Rhino seems crazy, but it fits in with the Recurring Nightmare idea to just loop two of them back and forth. I'd rather loop one along with a Thragtusk to get the token as well. They also discuss the use of Sun Titan as another card-recurring engine, but I'm not sure I like the idea of running a creature that you can't find with GSZ.
Yes, I have been running a very similar list to Matt lately. I was inspired by Kevin's Spike Feeder / Archangel of Thune deck that he took to eternal weekend. Playing Siege Rhino in legacy is so much fun, it just takes everyone by surprise. My biggest struggle with the deck has been mana denial surprisingly, with combo not being too much of an issue because of therapy and maindeck teeg. The deck has an amazing UWR matchup which is one of the biggest draws to it. UR can go under you pretty easily, but only 12 post goes over the top of you. Most of the other fair matchups in the format feel pretty biased in your favor save the occasional delver nut.
Sun titan was awesome when I played it, but I have since cut it for Primeval Titan to fetch out Phyrexian Tower, Volrath's Stronghold, and/or Karakas depending on the situation. I also like having a zenith target at 6. The two towers give you a scary amount of inevitability with less wasteland in the format.
What does Gaddock Teeg hit in your area that is worth turning off your own GSZs? I'm actually running Qasali Pridemage right now because I don't have a whole lot of combo decks in my meta, but I do have a lot of Delver & artifact-reliant fair decks.Quote:
Originally Posted by ironclad8690
I need to be prepared for storm, omnitell, sneak attack (mono red version too), tin fins, miracles, uwr blade (turn off DTT, TC, Jace, EE, Supreme Verdict, humility etc), elves, and high tide. He comes out vs most fair decks. Worst case he flashes back therapy or can be sacced to phyrexian tower or recurring nightmare, so I havent really had a problem getting rid of him if I have had to.
I've changed my build a tad, but I've really been enjoying it. In this meta, Rhino isn't bad at all.
-Matt
Quick little SCG Portland report. First time bringing this particular list to an event (outside of a small weekly prior), but I was feeling confident I understood many of the interactions it could offer. I played a slight variation of HoneyT's Punishing Fit list to 6-2-1, and would confidently register it for the upcoming invitational. I won't go in-depth, as I was running on fumes all day and my notes are lacking in detail. I'll mention what I sideboarded for the match-ups, and would love any and all commentary, as I'm still not sure my decisions were correct.
Maindeck (60):
4x Veteran Explorer
1x Deathrite Shaman
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Kitchen Finks
1x Eternal Witness
1x Thrun, the Last Troll
1x Huntmaster of the Fels
1x Thragtusk
1x Primeval Titan
4x Sensei's Divining Top
3x Pernicious Deed
3x Liliana of the Veil
4x Green Sun's Zenith
4x Cabal Therapy
3x Abrupt Decay
3x Punishing Fire
1x Golgari Charm
1x Maelstrom Pulse
4x Grove of the Burnwillows
1x Kessig Wolf Run
4x Verdant Catacombs
1x Bloodstained Mire
1x Wooded Foothills
2x Bayou
2x Badlands
1x Taiga
3x Swamp
2x Forest
1x Mountain
Sideboard (15):
3x Surgical Extraction (West Coast loves their graveyard strategies)
3x Thoughtseize
3x Red Elemental Blast
2x Slaughter Games
1x Krosan Grip
1x Massacre
1x Toxic Deluge
1x Golgari Charm
R1 - "OP" - from "Whoops" - Burn:
This entire match was a blur. SCG has pushed Legacy to a 9:00am start, and I'm not exactly a morning person. My opponent was quite friendly though, and very enthusiastic about their choice of 8th edition Mountains.
G1: I get 3'd repeatedly, back-to-back Searing Blazes knocking off my DRS and Scooze. I'm dead before I can stick anything to pull me back into the game.
I'm looking to cut more clunky cards for quicker ways of interacting/stabilizing. There's a small part of me that cringes when bringing in Thoughtseize, but I rather lose two (on my own accord) and gain some information, than take a Fireblast to the dome.
-3 Pernicious Deed : Too slow
-1 Primeval Titan: ^
+3 Thoughtseize: Stated above
+1 Golgari Charm: Regeneration mode, and acts as an answer to Eidolon and Vortex
G2: Goblin Guide smacks me several times before my opponent decides to 3 me a bunch. I dealt with the pesky 2/2, and after a Therapy on Blaze reveals that the coast is clear, I begin to deploy Scooze and DRS. Unfortunately, runner-runner Blazes/Bloods knock out my dorks, and I never hit my 4th land for the Huntmaster or GSZ (for Finks) in hand.
0-1 (0-2)
R2 - Anthony from Portland - Dead-Guy Ale:
G1: We both mulligan our 7's, but seem content with our fresh hands. I lead with an Explorer, which immediately gets the look-over. He plays out a SFM fetching up Batterskull. I therapy away the Skull, seeing a Bob and a couple of STP's. The flashback strips his hand of the removal spells, and ramps me towards 3rd turn Huntmaster. He Disfigures the lumberjack, but I burn out his Bob in return. My wolf beats down until I find an Eternal Witness for Huntmaster. Huntmaster is deployed a second time, and his hand becomes cluttered with thoughtseizes/removal spells while creatures kill him.
In creature heavy match-ups, I decided to cut down on my # of Tops when boarding. I found that I was using my most/all my mana each turn, and the Grove-Lock often negates the need for an immediate threat or alternative removal spell.
-2 Sensei's Divining Top: Unnecessary at 4x
-1 Golgari Charm: -1/-1 seemed to be only relevant mode.
+1 Krosan Grip: SFM and potential Pithing Needles
+1 Massacre: Creatures + Plains
+1 Toxic Deluge: Creatures
G2: Very similar to G1, except a bit longer. I got to flip Huntmaster for the first time (which was awesome), and while his Wastelands took care of my Groves, I still had no problem removing anything that clogged up the board.
1-1 (2-2)
R3 - Josh from Portland(?) - BUG Control:
I knew he was on some type of BUG list, but I didn't know his threat/removal configuration. I did however overhear him bad-mouthing Nic Fit the day before, so I was ready to get some revenge.
G1: We durdle around for the first couple of turns, trading hand-attack spells. His remove my Deed and Liliana, while I strip him of a counter-magic. His Brainstorms had hidden multiple True-Names, which solidify my thoughts surrounding his prior choices. I manage to stick a Top, and swing the life totals in my favor through various GSZ bullets, but I end up bricking on my spins as the TNN count stacks up to an impressive 3.
I didn't see many permanents worth targeting, and I'm really just looking to either stick a threat or grind away TNN. Worth noting I also saw Creeping Tar Pit in the match-up.
-3 Abrupt Decay: Nothing good to hit.
+3 Red Elemental Blast: Vs. Blue
There's a chance I should have brought in Thoughtseizes, but I feel like he can recover from them quite easily.
G2: This game takes forever, but I have pretty solid control of the board. There's a small period of time where he has attacked my mana with Wasteland to the point where neither of us can cast any spells of merit. During this time I have a Liliana in play however, which makes any creatures he deploys rather underwhelming. Once we start slinging cards again, his 4x Treasure Cruises don't find him anything too relevant, and I manage to overwhelm him with threats. Wolf Run did a hell of a job this game.
G3: We have 4 or 5 minutes left on the clock, and I don't believe I can possibly win in that time. I keep a rather annoying hand, and force a draw. Very unexciting, and somewhat frustrating was I believe that it would have been in both our interest to concede earlier in G2. I apologize to everyone that I couldn't truly avenge our archetype.
R4 - Aaron from Seattle - UW/r Stoneblade:
Into the briny depths of the draw-bracket I go.
G1: He starts off with a very common series of plays (Tundra + Ponder), but his lack of pressure leads me to believe his is either on Miracles, Gold Digger or some Trueblade variant. This causes me to hold onto my Therapy looking to dig up some more information before making a play. Deciding to finally make a move, I name FoW, but in hindsight I believe Brainstorm would have been a better call. Sure enough, I brick but he reveals a Brainstorm, Dig Through Time, some counter-magic, a TNN and a Clique. I proceed to play like a ham sandwich for the rest of the game, as 3/1's beat away at me, and I'm unable to stick a Deed or find a Charm.
I don't believe I boarded in this match very well.
-1 Kitchen Finks: Vs. slower list w/ STP
-1 Golgari Charm: Still not sure. Massacre fills the sweeper role, while being easier to cast around Spell Pierce.
-1 Maelstrom Pulse: Expensive. Grip and REB just seem stronger.
-1 Green Sun's Zenith: Somewhat expensive, and not as eager to stick a creature.
-3 Abrupt Decay: Also unsure. Plenty of other ways to remove creatures.
+3 Red Elemental Blast: Vs. Blue
+2 Thoughtseize: Need to clear the path for Deed/Threats. Didn't feel all 3 were necessary though.
+1 Krosan Grip: His various Equipment.
+1 Massacre: Plains + Creatures
G2: I rip apart his hand, and manage to keep him from developing anything of note. I see Containment Priests, so I take a mental note to be cautious when GSZ'ing. It takes a while for me to close out the game, but a combination of Thrun, Huntmaster and Wolf-Run end up taking us to G3.
G3: I start off ripping at his hand again, seeing an Academy Ruins. It ends up causing quite a fuss, as I never end up having an opportune time to search out a Scavenging Ooze to get rid of Batterskull permanently. I get knocked down incredibly low, but end up stabilizing between Thragtusk and Punishing Fire. While we were both playing at a reasonable pace, time is called and we go to turns. I had lethal on board, 4 cards in hand and approximately 14 lands in play. Instead of the draw, Aaron decides to concede. I thanked him repeatedly, and wished him the best with his time in Portland.
R5 - Daniel from Vancouver, WA - Shardless BUG:
I thought this deck had gone the way of the dodo bird.
G1: He does typical Shardless things, as I start to strip away at his hand. I have the ol' double explorer, double therapy hand. Good times. Great times! I draws a bunch of cards off of Visions + Baleful Strixs, and manages to stick a Jace. I attempt a GSZ for 4, and that gets quickly Force'd. He has to pitch another Force to do so however, clearing the way for a follow-up Thragtusk. Feeling comfortable behind his fall of artifact creatures and Goyfs, he decides to tick Jace up to 10, instead of dealing with the big beast. This lets me play and pop Deed for 3, giving me a clean 7 for one. He does some more things involving Liliana and Jace, but Mr. Troll Face joins the party, and he brought Wolf-Run. For the record, he had 14 cards left in his library at the end of this game.
-1 Golgari Charm: Helps with the idiot bird, but not much else.
-3 Liliana of the Veil: I couldn't imagine her being all that great in this match.
+3 Red Elemental Blast: Vs. Blue
+1 Toxic Deluge: He likes to clog the board.
G2: This game was a bit of a blur. I snagged 2x Force of Will off of a Therapy, and Pulse took out 2x DRS. Kitchen Finks caused a bit of havoc, Red Blast took care of a Jace, and PFire lock cleaned up shop.
R6 - Barbed Lightning from The Source - Death & Taxes
Got to sit across from a fellow sourcer. After that awkward pause of meeting someone whom you've only ever interacted with on the internet, things loosen up and we have a very friendly match. We both acknowledged how bad this match-up is for DNT, and sure and shoot it was incredibly lopsided.
G1: He has a standard DNT start of Mom + Thalia + Revokers (3 of them). I produced an opening that led him to believe I was on Punishing Jund (DRS + Scavenging Ooze, with a Grove as a mana source). I have this juicy Golgari Charm in my hand, but Revoker on DRS stops me from getting to the necessary 3 mana for the spicy blow-out. I eventually get there, and my dorks end up taking over the game.
-2 Sensei's Divining Top: As mentioned before, I imagine I would be busy using my mana for other things.
-2 Veteran Explorer: Vs. STP, and I feel like there are more productive things to be done in the match.
+1 Massacre: Vs. Plains + Creatures
+1 Toxic Deluge: Vs. Creatures
+1 Krosan Grip: This hits soooooooooo many things in this match.
+1 Golgari Charm: Great vs. X/1's, and any possible Enlightened Tutor goodies.
G2: I get a pretty typical Explorer + Therapy hand, hitting 2x STP. He shows me an Enlightened Tutor, which fetches up a Batterskull to play off his newly acquired Snow-Covered Plains. I forgot how much I hated playing against this card. It ends up catapulting his life total to 43, but I finally manage to get him in a situation where he has no cards in hand, I have a Liliana and a Deed in play. I attempt to blow the deed for 5, he returns the Batterskull and Lilly makes him trash it. From there on out Thragtusk slowly chips away at his life-total, and a Prime Time grabs me a Kessig Wolf Run to clean up quickly. Not every day I get to say "In response, I'll give my 5/3 +8/+0 and Trample". Having played DNT for quite some time, I was incredibly stupid to have extended my manabase as much as I did. Cataclysm would have dumpstered me beyond belief.
R6 - Brad from Seattle(?) - UR Delver
I still believe this is a positive match-up for me, but they have a "god-draw" which ends the game before I'm able to develop. Brad is a nice guy though. I see him at most events in the Pacific Northwest, and we usually end up sitting near each other during events. Cool to finally put a name to the face/voice.
G1: I get absolutely trashed. Double Delvers, backed by double Dazes prevent me from removing his creatures. With no Decay in sight, I get burned out before being able to even think about stabilizing.
-3 Liliana of the Veil: Expensive and weak Vs. Pyromancer and friends.
-1 Primeval Titan: Too big. Other threats will make do.
-1 Sensei's Divining Top: Using my mana each turn to prevent myself from dying. No time for dilly-dallying.
+3 Red Elemental Blast: Vs. Blue
+1 Toxic Deluge: Vs. Creatures
+1 Golgari Charm: Vs. X/1's
G2: I put a bit more of a fight, but Finks can only stall for so long. I still can't find a Decay, and eventually my remaining 12 life points just get burned out. Welp.
After the match, Brad confesses he just nutter-buttered me and believes that there's probably more to this match-up. I'd be inclined to agree. Well, there goes Top 8, but I'm still up for qualifying for the Invitational if I snag Top 32.
R7 - Tom "The Boss" Ross from SCG - Jeskai Ascendancy Combo:
Welp, here we go. I knew he was on Ascendancy Combo, but I had never really seen it in action. I assumed that I could put up a good fight, considering his win conditions, but having never played the deck I wasn't entirely confident.
G1: An early Explorer + Therapy hits 2x Jeskai Ascendancy, and helps me set up shop. He cruises into more cruises, into more cruises, but is never able to combo off against my arsenal of removal. It takes a while, as I'm being incredibly cautious, but I end up killing him at a healthy life total. Pernicious Deed gets a gold sticker for the disgustingly satisfying things it did this match.
I may have over-sideboarded due to my inexperience, but it worked out well.
-1 Maelstrom Pulse: Slow, and Charm does the job much better.
-1 Kitchen Finks: Seemed unnecessary.
-1 Primeval Titan: So darn big.
-2 Green Sun's Zenith: My game plan was to strip him of all win-cons. Zenith doesn't exactly assist in this.
-3 Liliana of the Veil: At an all-time low in this match-up.
+1 Golgari Charm
+2 Slaughter Games
+3 Surgical Extraction
+3 Red Elemental Blast
On the draw, decided to give 61 cards a whirl.
G2: I Cabal Therapy away some counter-magic, to clear the way for a Golgari Charm to take out his Young Peezy. It ends up working, and I'm staring at this Surgical Extraction in my hand. He has some unknown cards, but I figure it would be worth using Surgical on the Pyromancer (on draw step). I decline to do so, and naturally he slams a second Pyromancer. I end up taking care of this one as well, and decide to bite the bullet at Surgical it. He responds with a Surgical of his own, protecting his small # of threats. All this time he has been cruising (and does so a total of 4x times in this game). I get a Slaughter Games off on Jeskai Ascendancy, but he only had one left after boarding. This does allow me to get a glance at the Meddling Mages he sided in. He prevents me from landing a significant threat, so it looks like we're on the PFire plan. After getting him quite low, he casts a Brainstorm leaving only a fetchland available for finding a mana source. Expecting him to shuffle (and knowing he has a Spell Pierce in hand), I wait for him to fetch before taking action. He cracks his land (going to 3), I PFire in response (down to 1), return it to my hand with Grove (back to 2) and tap out to cast it again (hopefully killing him). He is resigned to Force (pitching Pierce, putting him at 1) which leaves him in a sticky situation. He untaps, looks at his life total and the board, shrugs, and then casts Pithing Needle. "I'll name Grove". Oh, I get it. I untap, at the board. "You're at 1? Tap Grove of the Burnwillows for red mana. You gain one life and my Punishing Fire Trig..." - "Yeah, you got me."
Alright, we're still live for Top 32.
R8 - Joshua from The Pacific Northwest(?) - UR Delver:
For whatever reason, I was under the impression he was on ANT. That said, I'm glad he wasn't, as I kept a god-awful hand for that match-up.
G1: He has an incredibly quick start, but I'm able to stabilize somewhat. Kitchen Finks makes an appearance and helps out a considerable amount. Golgari Charm clears up the board, and we're ready to restart the game. He has one (random) card in hand, and I have a choice. Either tapout for GSZ -> Thragtusk, or go for the "safer" GSZ -> Huntmaster and play around Daze. I was at a somewhat healthy life total, but you can never be too safe vs. UR Delver. I go for the Tusk, and naturally he has Daze #3. Welp, what's the worse that can happen. He untaps and then proceeds to chain two Treasure Cruises. I get chipped down by a dork to 5, but manage to run him out of cards again. I've got a top going, all the mana in the world and 2x PFire + Decay. I'm not seeing anything to help me survive/win however, and runner-runner bolts unfortunately ends me.
-3 Liliana of the Veil: Expensive and weak Vs. Pyromancer and friends.
-1 Primeval Titan: Too big. Other threats will make do.
-1 Sensei's Divining Top: Using my mana each turn to prevent myself from dying. No time for dilly-dallying.
+3 Red Elemental Blast: Vs. Blue
+1 Toxic Deluge: Vs. Creatures
+1 Golgari Charm: Vs. X/1's
G2: I mulligan to 6, while he takes 5. Not exactly the way I wanted to lead this match to an epic finale, but Therapy + Finks and PFire lock going make this rather quick.
G3: We're both on 7. My hand is a thing of beauty. Not too ridiculous, but it just oozes of Nic Fit (no pun intended, nor appropriate as there was no Ooze in my hand). He Ponders (shuffles) and then passes. Great, no Delver! I play an Explorer and pass. He casts a Swiftspear, probe and then tanks about attacking into my Explorer. He declines to do so, and just ships the turn. I'm not sure why, but he seemed incredibly nervous as a crowd had begun to gather. I'm not sure how experienced of a tournament player he was, as he seemed to be in his late teens (approx 16-18). Anyways, I cast a Therapy, it resolves and I want to slam this Deed asap. I name Force of Will.... and hit 3 of them. The remainder of his hand was a Moutain and a snapland. It might have been a waste, but I wanted to press this advantage and flashbacked the Therapy naming Hunted Wumpus. Unfortunately I bricked, but the extra mana allowed me to safely resolve a Deed. He does draw a Cruise to pull himself back into the game, but PFire lock and Thrun put a stop to such silly things. With a sigh of relief, the tournament is finally over.
Props:
- HoneyT for posting some sideboard notes (that I should have read more thoroughly) and shipping the list.
- sdeMatt for lending me some pretty English Beta duals to rock.
- Vancouver players for being supportive for taking Nic Fit to a larger event.
- Kessig Wolf Run was an absolute monster.
- All the awesome remarks I got from playing this great deck.
Slops:
- Unfortunately no Top 8/Top 16 for website coverage.
- Always being one step behind getting on camera :(
- Not sideboarding properly
- Needed to play a bit quicker. I'm a fast player, but this is on a completely different level.
Again, I would love any comments or concerns on my sideboarding/build.
Cheers,
Benjamin
/Like.
-Matt
Great read and nice results.Quote:
Originally Posted by SevenInTheQueue
Based on your experience do you want to change anything in your list?
great write up! thanks for the good notes :)
After playing with 2, then 3 and upping it to 4 I'd have to say that NOT playing 4 is crazy. This card is a house, I have cut down on some of my high to fit him in. He is extremely efficient at what he does.Quote:
Originally Posted by PhyrexianLibrarian
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobmans
Primeval Titan seemed a bit overkill. I think I rather have Broodmate Dragon, as it can also play a defensive role if necessary. Also thinking -1 Slaughter Games might be correct.
Can someone give me the latest shift wish list? Can't find a new one and I just got the wishes I needed.
It all depends on the style you want to play the deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardio
You can either run it as a combo-shell that has a few creatures as support or you can run it as a mid-range deck that has the ability to combo out.
I would defer you to Arianrhod for a combo-style deck list.
Here is my current mid-range deck that I have great results with on mtgo:
[14] Creatures
4 veteran explorer
2 Sakura Tribe Elder
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness
1 Wood Elves
1 Obstinate Baloth
1 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Thragtusk
1 Primeval Titan
[15] Sorceries
3 Cabal Therapy
2 Thoughtseize
4 Burning Wish
3 GSZ
2 Scapeshift
[3] Instant
3 Abrupt Decay
[6] Artifact & Enchantment
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Pernicious Deed
[23] Land
4 Taiga
2 Stomping Ground
3 Badland
2 Bayou
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Mountain
2 Valakut
3 Verdant Catacomb
[15] Sideboard
2 Carpet of Flowers (Insane)
3 Slaughter Games
2 Pyroblast
1 Scapeshift
1 GSZ
1 Ruination
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Pyroclasm
1 Massacre
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Thoughtseize
Let me know if you have any questions about the deck or specific matchups.
Last night I equipped a Siege Rhino with a Batterskull. My life is now complete.
I have been thinking about Restoration Angel as a way to get extra value out of Rhino and other creatures with ETB abilities. Is that too cute? I am aware that it creates some tension in the four drop slot and that Angel is not searchable with GSZ. Perhaps a pod build?
In the Pod build I used Resto and liked it.
I also used it in the pod build it was negilgibly better then just playing another rhino. the only time I wanted it was if I had an active pod a three drop and a thragtusk in play and I was really far behind other then that it wasnt where I wanted to be.
If you were to run a 1-of card to abuse ETB abilities, that card should be recurring nightmare imo. If either one is worth it really depends on how many creatures/ETB abilities you are running.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZimAshe
Realistically, if you're playing Nightmare correctly, the only way they can get rid of it is Thoughtseize or Clique. It's a nightmare, no pun intended, if you can get the right loops going.
-Matt
My list looks a little wonky with the abundance of 3 ofs but I'd suggest anyone interested in seige rhino to give it a whirl and decide for yourself before making the mistake of falling into the 0 or 4 mentality. I have a couple fkex slots main im still not finished with but I'm satisfied keeping them as "the" flex slots. Every other card I'm sold on in its current form.
3 Explorer
3 Deathrite Shaman
3 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Seige Rhino
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Strangleroot Geist (flex)
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Sigarda
1 Batterskull
1 Jitte
1 Sword of fire and ice
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Abrupt Decay
2 Plow
1 Funeral Charm (flex)
1 Golgari Charm (flex)
3 GSZ
2 Sylvan Library
1 Top
1 Recurring Nightmare
6 Basics
6 Duals
7 Fetches
2 Phyrexian Tower
I know I lost a lot of people at no deeds/deluge main. Several more for actually playing 3 ofs and everyone else at Strangleroot Geist but it plays like a smooth union of maverick/Rock/Nic Fit.
For anyone curious this is my current board
2 Carpet of Flowers
2 Thoughtseize
2 Toxic Deluge
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Grafdiggers Cage
1 Pithing Needle
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Krosan Grip
1 Council's Judgement
1 Elspeth, Knight Errant
Feed back is appreciated, even trolling. The board is still shifting around but any thoughts?
I was thinking of Angle as more of a way to dodge removal. I lost a game because my opponent had to cast dig through time to find a Plow to send my Rhino farming. If that hadn't happened I win the next turn. although with recurring nightmare there is the potential to "burn them out" with looping Rhinos. It's definitely worth some testing.Quote:
Originally Posted by honz
How's this look for a Wolf-Run Nic Fit?
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Abyssal Persecutor
1 Thragtusk
1 Broodmate Dragon
2 Vraska the Unseen
2 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Punishing Fire
2 Abrupt Decay
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Wooded Foothills
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
2 Bayou
1 Taiga
1 Badlands
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Phyrexian Towers
3 Forest
3 Swamp
2 Mountain
Sideboard
4 Pyroblast
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Golgari Charm
2 Malestrom Pulse
3 Slaughter Games
I wanted to try using Vraska and Sarkhan. Lili seems good here, as a way of ditching cards I don't need.
Woohoo, here we go!
OR
Sorry for the Kevinishly long post! :)
I finally got to playtest my/our ideas in a local tournament yesterday. This is the deck I discussed with PfireMC a few weeks ago. I should also mention that I've played Sdematt's the Rock list a few times this autumn so I'm very influenced by that list and it's quite interesting to see he's/you're turning the Rock in the Nic Fit direction while we're (with this build) approaching a Rock Fit (especially with the transformational sideboard plan mentioned below). If it works is another question.
Initial list from Pfiremc:
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post850860
With some added ideas from this post tested in the deck list below:
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post850946
And with these updates since the post above:
-1 Lingering Souls, +1 Liliana
-2 Swords to Plowshares, +2 Zealous Persecution
- 2 Gaea's Cradle, + 1 Bayou (waiting for cradles, not sure they are worth it though)
Above changes are motivated by a) more anti combo in the main with an extra Liliana b) need to combine Liliana with a sweeper c) no Cradles right now so can skip 1 souls.
I'm of the opinion that it's worth weighing every card in the deck list twice to consider an alternative that fits in the deck, the meta and is relevant vs combo decks. Giving up on the combo matchup completely in g1 just seems like a bad deck building strategy. For this reason, and due to running Punishing Fire vs the small creature decks, the Punishing Nic Fit seems like the best version. And the junk answer to these concepts could be Liliana with Zealous Persecution/Toxic Deluge in the main deck. Do notice that adding sweepers alongside Liliana is not only synergetic but also hedges with the sweepers being extra strong in the matchups where Liliana is extra weak.
So, the deck list (again) with 60 + 15 cards:
Nic Fit core:
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Veteran Explorer
3 Deathrite Shaman
Removal:
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Zealous Persecution
2 Liliana of the Veil
Equipment package:
3 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
2 Lingering Souls
GSZ-package:
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Siege Rhino
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scavenging Ooze
Card selection/drawing:
3 Sylvan Library
1 Sensei's Divining Top
Lands (22):
1 Vault of the Archangel
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
4 Bayou
2 Savannah
2 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains
SB: 3 Thoughtseize
SB: 1 Liliana of the Veil
SB: 2 Toxic Deluge
SB: 1 Abrupt Decay
SB: 1 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Qasali Pridemage
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 2 Carpet of Flowers
SB: 1 Extirpate
SB: 1 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Humility
A few SB-comments:
Humility is sweet in this deck, with the equipment, souls and persecutions.
Surgical is good vs the fast graveyard decks and for great synergy with Cabal Therapy, in response to Brainstorm.
I may try Aura Shards, since I lack Deed and play Arbor + Souls. And since I want mass-artifact removal not being Deed.
Transformational sideboard?
I have an idea to put a copy of KotR in the main and 2-3 Wastelands in the side, allowing me to switch veterans to wastelands and transform into the Rock [a more Rock-like strategy] when appropriate. With the low mana curve it looks doable, may need to lower it slightly. That will surprise anyone trying to fetch duals to keep basics in their library for veteran triggers. And playing on land light hands. Such a transformational sideboard (of 2-3 slots) could be taken one step further by the inclusion of 2 Trinispheres, playing along the lines of Sylvan Plug, without the Sol lands but with 4 GSZ for t1 Arbor and 3 Deathries giving 7 cards enabling a t2 Trinisphere.
...
TOURNAMENT REPORT from the local game store Dragon's Lair, Stockholm, Sweden on December 10th:
Here is a tournament report from a local tournament, not too relevant for most of you so just skip. But since I really enjoy reading all of your reports I figured I will offer this back to the Source. And I appologize for not having taken proper notes and giving a blurry representation of the games.
I went 3-1 winning against Goblin Stax, Death & Taxes and Miracles and losing against BUG Delver.
Match 1, Goblin Stax: 2-0
Short version: I slowly kill of chalices in both games and kill him with Siege Rhino and whatever G2.
G1:
He was landing plenty of chalices and trinispheres in both games. First game I think he goes first, I landed a deathrite on turn two and he plays a chalice on 1 turn 2. I follow up with a Liliana, ticking it up. He goes Rabblemaster I think and starts picking on Liliana. I think I may have followed up with a Siege Rhino (from my 3 fetched basics + deathrite) because he kept his Rabblemaster at home, hitting with 2 tokens next turn and playing probably a trinisphere. Next turn I may have decayed the chalice and therapied a Moggcatcher. He's low on life from Siege Rhino and several Ancient Tomb-activations so I beat him down over a few turns.
SB: +1 Qasali, +1 Krosan Grip, +1 Abrupt Decay, +2(?) Deluge; -1 Gaddock Teeg, 1(?) Cabal Therapy
G2:
Second game he plays t1 chalice @1 and t2 chalice @2, making my hand of Veteran, Therapy and (1 more 1-drop, SDT?) slightly inefficient. I also had a Decay but the targets were lining up fast, I think t3 Trinisphere and shortly after Ensnaring Bridge. I chose to Decay Chalice@1 during my turn 3 and then waited a turn before I could GSZ for Qasali with mana available for destroying something with it. I played Deathrite for 3 during that turn of waiting, figuring it will both accellerate and be a way to close the game through the Bridge he had played. I get another Deathrite into play start picking at him for 2 points of damage each turn. Once I get the Qasali mana I think he had just gotten Jitte into play so I destroy it, instead of his Bridge, and he just gets below 3 cards before I can get the Qasali back to my hand from the graveyard with the Sword. Finally I manage to hit his bridge and beat down with something. It's a bit blurred out, but artifact removal was obviously crucial; Deed would have been great but I pulled it off without so obviously not necessary. I have done a little playtesting vs Sylvan Plug on Cockatrice and the matchup is pretty good, so I think I'm packing a reasonable amount of artifact hate even without Deed.
Match 2, BUG Delver: 0-2
Short version: I don't get my lifegain online in the first game and in the second I lose to drawing few lands and a bad keep. Goyf and Delver may have something to do with it too.
G1:
I think he opens with a fetch, I play Deathrite happily and it's eot Disfigured. He follows with Delver, it doesn't flip in about 2 turns but is joined by a Goyf. I play Veteran, he flips Delver and I think attacks allowing me to fetch for lands. He plays another Delver, I play Sylvan and Jitte and something which is all Decayed and Spell Pierced. He cruises, yuck. I have a Vault of the Archangel out but not enough mana to use it and no blocker to kill the goyf. While I'm playing Sylvan and Jitte he's attacking for 3, 3 and 3+5 or so, I think I tapped out for a GSZ for Siege Tank which was countered during that last attack. I had a fetch available but forgot to get Arbor which would have bought me a turn. Next turn I get the Siege Tank into play, but I'm already at 3-4 life points. One more turn would have allowed me to start gaining life with Siege Rhino + Vault but it would still have been tough.
SB: +2 Carpet of Flowers, +1 Abrupt Decay, +2 Toxic Deluge, -1 Gaddock Teeg, -2 Zealous Persecution, -1(?) Veteran Explorer, -1(?) Cabal Therapy
G2:
I have loads of relevant cmc 1-2 cards in hand but only a plains and a Vault. I feel like gambling since all I need is a single fetch, and he needs to answer my Stoneforge for Jitte. So of course he kills the stoneforge and wastes my vault and I draw no lands over the next 5-6 turns.
Match 3, Death & Taxes: 2-1
Short version: Zealous Persecution in main was good, go to G3 for juicy opening.
G1:
In the first game the crucial plays I remember are that I kill his threatening Aven Mindcensor and some other creature with a Zealous Persecution.
SB: +2 Toxic Deluge, +1 Abrupt Decay, +1(?) Pithing Needle; -1 Gaddock Teeg, -2 Liliana, and possibly one more card.
G2:
He wins, forgot all about this. He may have Flickerwisped a Batterskull token at some point, probably beaten down with 3/x fliers.
G3: Pretty nice start, showing the power of Cabal Therapy. I start with a Cabal Therapy, naming Aether Vial (it enables such dirty tricks, rushing, mana denial etc). Turn 2 I topdeck a second Therapy and get his Aven Mindcensor, play Veteran and buyback Cabal to take his Stoneforge. The two lands allow me to GSZ for Veteran no 2 and buyback the second Cabal Therapy to take his last nonland card in hand, a Flickerwisp. So T2 I have 6 lands in play and the opponent has 3-4 lands [as only cards] in hand. Proceed to win the game.
Match 4, Miracles: 1-0
Short story: a long grind vs miracles with an unbelievable finish (spoiler: it's not a miracle).
G1:
When we sit down opposite to each other we both realize we're probably not going to be able to finish this game, both of us usually playing control decks. The store is closing forcing us to finish in 40 minutes or so. This game is quite blurry since we played for 30+ turns with constant action and topdecking skills on his side (I had Sylvan, drawing plenty).
He gets a slow start with no tops or brainstorms. He counterspells my two-drop, probably Mystic. Third turn I therapy for Jace and miss, seeing an entreat and double FoW's. I get some creature into play and flashback Cabal to take the FoW's. The next turns are blurry but involve decay decay on his hard cast entreat for 1, another decay in response to top activation - which gave him Terminus to sweep my creature. Liliana kills something and does some discarding. Sylvan draws me plenty of cards and Liliana has him low on cards but he keeps topdecking counterspells, FoW and snapcaster for three consecutive turns countering my Siege Tank and other repeated threats. I probably get a Mystic into play and Sword of L&S for STP-protection but he terminuses. I really want to connect only once to start pulling Siege Tanks back from the graveyard but he follows up the counterspell-turns with swords, snap, terminus, terminus for my Dryad Arbor which I'm fetching back, and Clique. Also he has mad Venser action blocking and bouncing my 1-2 creatures (veteran + dryad) that are equiped but can't get through. However it keeps him tapped out. He keeps bouncing and I keep attacking, shuffling and drawing extra with library but I can only get more lands and Sylvans on the top of my library. Finally I get a Sigarda on the top 3 of the library but notice that I have only drawn 1 white mana in the 30 turns or so. And the lands on the top of my library are not fetches, by now. So after 3-4 turns waiting for a threat or a second white land time is called. It's looking grim. I finally get the land to play a Sigarda during the first turn of time. He's at about 17 life and I'm at about 3 life from Sylvan. Hit him during the third round of time for 5 getting two jitte counters, he's now down to 12. I use one counter to kill his Clique(?). For some reason I couldn't afford equipping the sword too. During the fifth and last turn of time I equip the sword too and use the Jitte counter to deal 9 sweet deamage in the air, sword triggering to allow me to pick up Siege Tank which is just enough to deal the last 3 points of damage. Sweetest win in a long time, but we made a couple of mistakes throughout the games both of us.
Any comments appreciated, especially on deck building choices. Or you can PM me to tell me what I should or shouldn't write in a report or this thread...
I'd say cut persecutor for obstinate baloth and run 1 sarkhan and 3 lili over 2 sarkhan and 2 vraskaQuote:
Originally Posted by The Crow's Eye
Thanks, I'll look into three Lili. I notice that the Scapeshift variant on the first page opts for Stormbreath in its creature mix...what's the reasoning for this over something like Primeval Titan or more Thragtusks? Also, there was a rentsy Rock Nic Fit here: http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=75666Quote:
Originally Posted by bryanzoll
Could a 2-2-2 of Lili, Vraska, Sarkhan work if I followed this deck's model, or is it too much of a gamble? My mainboard changes would see Thrun, Huntmaster in place of the Obliterators, and Scooze over Bloodghast.
Stormbreath Dragon is pretty efficient. A 4/4 flyer with haste and protection from white (plow proof) makes this a strong creature vs say Miracles. The only problem offcourse would be it not be searchable with GSZ. In that regard i am always avoiding non green creatures in PFire lists (or any non pod lists for that matter)
As for Sarkhan dragonspeaker i am not sure. He might be solid on the offense but defensive he seems a bit week and him costing double RR might be an issue (sometimes). Also the 2/2/2 split seems akward. I would prefer a 3/1/1 split at the most. With 3x liliana. Yesterday i did some testing with Vraska, the Unseen and it was pretty good. Having a walker with Deathtouch is OK, at least it's a trade. Her - ability was most relevant most of the time. Also having her ultimate as a wincon is nice to. With some amount of board control it is pretty hard for the opponent to get rid of the three tokens. She gets the MD spot over Garruk Relentless which is now on the board and thinking to switch him for Sarkhan the Mad as was suggested earlier.
Also i have been thinking about Primeval Titan. I really think for a 6 drop the Titan doesn't have to much impact on the board. Does anyone has been having the same thoughts and wants it replaced with something else? And what could/would that be?
My thoughts on Stormbreath dragon has always been the same...if you cant tutor for it, it doesn't belong in a GSZ deck. I tried dragon, I tried other non-green creatures (with scapewish) and everytime I had a GSZ with 7+ mana in play and needed the ability of that creature I just cried. It sucks not being able to tutor up a 1 or 2-of in the deck. One of the reasons we run all green colored creatures is because we can run them as those 1 or 2-ofs but still effectively have 4-5 copies of them in the deck due to GSZ. My suggestion would be to stick with creatures where you will have more consistency from and those will be in the color green.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Crow's Eye
As far as a 2-2-2 split, my first impression is that 6 planeswalkers in any nic fit deck just seems like its too many. I would suggest 4 at the most, 3 being lili, 1 being sarkhan or vraska. From there, see how sarkhan or vraska improve matchups where you feel you are weak. That is one of the reasons why Liliana is so strong in the deck, is because she significantly helps out game again decks where they would otherwise always have the upper hand (i.e. storm).
I just want to clarify how this interaction works.Quote:
Originally Posted by pettdan
- You cast Cabal Therapy and pass priority.
- Opponent casts Brainstorm, you let it resolve.
- After Brainstorm resolves, you get priority again, and can Surgically Extract the Brainstorm before your opponent gets a chance to counter the original Therapy. Chances are they can't counter both.
- Profit?
Does anyone have a good up to date G/B/W list right now? I'm looking at adopting this deck as one of my go to decks since I sold all my blue duals and staples to pay bills... Anyone ever try Sun Titan out? Recurring things like Deed seems kinda fun with a 6/6 vigilance. Just wondering.
My list is on the previous page its a non pod gbw version pretty straight forward there isn't really a standardized agreed upon list most people are either on stoneforge or pod both is doable but I think my list is a good place to start.
This is the Abzan list I would recommend:Quote:
Originally Posted by Madmankevinx
2 Bayou
3 Forest
1 Karakas
1 Marsh Flats
2 Plains
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
2 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
2 Deathrite Shaman
1 Eternal Witness
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Primeval Titan
1 Scavenging Ooze
4 Siege Rhino
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Thragtusk
4 Veteran Explorer
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Cabal Therapy
1 Council's Judgment
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Path to Exile
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Recurring Nightmare
4 Sensei's Divining Top
SB
1 Cranial Extraction
2 Golgari Charm
1 Krosan Grip
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Memoricide
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Thoughtseize
2 Toxic Deluge
Also, for those dabbling in the Punishing Fire version, Liliana is the tits and Sarkhan and Vraska are hot garbage. If you want another planeswalker, Garruk, Primal Hunter is your man.
My Current Junk Mystic Fit List (feels nice to go 4-0...twice now)
Land (22)
3 Bayou
2 Forest
1 Karakas
2 Plains
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
2 Swamp
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Phyrexian Tower
Creatures (16)
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Eternal Witness
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Siege Rhino
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Thragtusk
3 Veteran Explorer
4 Stoneforge Mystic
Spells and stuff (23)
1 Jitte
1 Batterskull
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Sword to Plowshares
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Night of Soul's Betrayal (Damn tokens)
SB (kinda of messy)
1 Golgari Charm
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Thoughtseize
1 Toxic Deluge
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Humility
1 Extripate
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
1 AShen Rider
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Garruk, Primal Hunter
Liliana should be there as a 3-off. Agreed on that. Tried 2, but hated it. Never drew it when i needed her. For the rest i disagree.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoneyT
Vraska was awesome every time it hit the board. Either it turned the gamestate aroud (destroying Tombstalker or a Batterskull) or it upped trading for multiple creatures or it just upped and ultimate FTW while using removal to keep the path clean. I like it. I haven't tried dicking around with Sarkhan yet. Also going to try out Garruk, Apex Predator. 7 mana is a lot, but it has pretty much everything it needs.
Garruk, PH is awesome and it sucks at the same time. While sometimes it just steals games overloading on 3/3's, but most of the time he does not have to much effect on the board state. In the end i am not sure If Sarkhan (the Mad) would be better then Garruk PH, but at least i am just gonna try it and find out.
Hey, thanks for working on this deck a little more.Quote:
Originally Posted by pettdan
I don't like ZP's in the main since not a lot of decks have a lot of X/1's. I really like it in the board though.
The singleton top doesn't seem necessary to me, what's your opinion on it?
I agree that liliana's could be good mainboard, I just can't find the room for them.
I think that with some decks, the g1 combo matchup is hopeless. But since this deck can have siege-rhino-fueled 5-6 turn kills I think this deck has a chance. So I moved the sideboard teeg to the main, cutting sun titan and adding a baneslayer to the side for the matchups where you need a little more lategame.
What do you think is the best utility land? I like gavony township but vault of the archangel is sweet too.
Do you stand by your list after the tournament or would you change anything?
@Pfiremc:
I'll try to answer, but more playing is needed. I'd like to read about your testing too if you're doing some. :)
The top is because it hurts very badly not getting some draw mechanism into play in the late game. And top can be shuffled back in easily when excessive as opposite to sylvan no 4. And is harder for opp to remove. Consider it a card selection insurance. It seems important in helping us compete with blue decks in terms of finding the right answer/threat at the right time. Actually thinking of it this may be the relevant swap for testing Courser I was looking for. He rids us of bad topdecks too, keeping lands off the top (and as a bonus puts them into play). With added lifegain.
Sword of light and shadow has been really nice. Protection from swords and skull, offering life gain and tutorable recurring nightmare ... And boosting spirit tokens are all very relevant things. It won me a game against miracles in the fifth round of time due to siege rhino replayed and was close to doing heavy work in the stax matchup via qasali chain killing bridges and chalices. Will keep jitte but could see myself trying a second sword of light and shadow too. Of course i have the ZP's covering the dirty jitte work on x/1's, without them the choice swings slightly in favor of jitte. When it comes to ZP I was thinking it may depend on the amount of goyfs we expect to see in the meta and the amount of lingering souls we play (as an alternative answer to delvers, which are abundant globally i'd expect and less dependent on local meta).
I dont know about lands. I'll keep trying vault for a while. Lifegain is so good with Sylvan. And deathtouch is good with souls. Gavony T seems strong but to benefit from it you need to survive a few extra turns. Vault helps you make it through those turns, that's another reason I prefer trying it.
I did have problems getting veteran killed, so a phyrexian tower may be worth it when not playing cradle. Good with souls too.
I'm thinking of playing 3(+1) lingering souls and 2(-1) veteran explorer once my cradles arrive.
I did play against ANT today and lost 1-2. I tried the transformational sideboard and missing t1 interaction due to drawing a wasteland over the third sb thoughtseize may have cost me a game. So perhaps leave the 3 TS and swap something else next time.. Or skip it.
Oh yeah, one more thing. I needed a scrubland several times, changing a savannah.
I have not gotten a chance to test yet, though I plan to.Quote:
Originally Posted by pettdan
Fair enough, though this is something that needs testing.Quote:
The top is because it hurts very badly not getting some draw mechanism into play in the late game. And top can be shuffled back in easily when excessive as opposite to sylvan no 4. And is harder for opp to remove. Consider it a card selection insurance. It seems important in helping us compete with blue decks in terms of finding the right answer/threat at the right time. Actually thinking of it this may be the relevant swap for testing Courser I was looking for. He rids us of bad topdecks too, keeping lands off the top (and as a bonus puts them into play). With added lifegain.
Yeah, it seems really good.Quote:
Sword of light and shadow has been really nice. Protection from swords and skull, offering life gain and tutorable recurring nightmare ... And boosting spirit tokens are all very relevant things.
Makes sense.Quote:
Of course i have the ZP's covering the dirty jitte work on x/1's, without them the choice swings slightly in favor of jitte. When it comes to ZP I was thinking it may depend on the amount of goyfs we expect to see in the meta and the amount of lingering souls we play (as an alternative answer to delvers, which are abundant globally i'd expect and less dependent on local meta).
Fair enough, though I still like the sheer power of township. If you get 3+ creatures (which is not hard in this deck) and a township active it's difficult to lose, though it is win-more in some respects.Quote:
I dont know about lands. I'll keep trying vault for a while. Lifegain is so good with Sylvan. And deathtouch is good with souls. Gavony T seems strong but to benefit from it you need to survive a few extra turns. Vault helps you make it through those turns, that's another reason I prefer trying it.
I'm not sure about this with the reduced number of explorers and a utility land.Quote:
I did have problems getting veteran killed, so a phyrexian tower may be worth it when not playing cradle. Good with souls too.
It is true that a transformational sideboard might hurt the amount of combo hate you can fit in your sideboard, but it might still be possible. This requires more testing.Quote:
I did play against ANT today and lost 1-2. I tried the transformational sideboard and missing t1 interaction due to drawing a wasteland over the third sb thoughtseize may have cost me a game. So perhaps leave the 3 TS and swap something else next time.. Or skip it.
For the record, I think the deck has a good combo matchup overall, despite the fact that it isn't great game 1. In games 2 and 3 the deck can bring in disruption and combined with the fast clock for nic fit that is probably enough. This also requires testing though.
Hey Sourcers!
After lurking TheSource for about a year, I've decided to join the party. I've been playing legacy for a year now and fell in love with Nic Fit over the last couple of months. On Saturday I played my first real tournament with it (6 rounds in Nuremberg). After long thoughts about wether I want to play a punishing list, or a GB list with only a small R-splash for SB cards I ended up with the following:
23 lands:
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Bloodstained Mire
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Taiga
2 Bayou
2 Badlands
3 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Mountain
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Treetop Village
24 spells:
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Punishing Fire
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Garruk, Primal Hunter
13 creatures:
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Thragtusk
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness
1 Primeval Titan
1 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Obstinate Baloth
1 Reclamation Sage
SB: 1 Golgari Charm
SB: 2 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Krosan Grip
SB: 2 Slaughter Games
SB: 3 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 1 Pyroclasm
SB: 2 Thoughtseize
SB: 1 Massacre
SB: 1 Nihil Spellbomb
SB: 1 Surgical Extraction
the list felt pretty OK throughout the event, I'm still not sure if I want Phyrexian Tower for the Prime Time toolbox as well, though it's another colorless source (in a way). Sage didn't do a lot, not sure about her either. Top is the nuts, I might go up to 4 copies. But now a short summary:
R1: (Ponder)Miracles 0-1-1
g1 he handles Thrun twice, Jace and Entreat evetually win the game, since I can't get JTMS off the board (Counterbalance).
g2 we durdle around again, Grip takes care of his Top, during the extraturns I go for the kill with Garruk's ulti (7 worms), but he has Terminus. Maybe I should've gone for that instead of Entreat with an earlier Slaughter Games.
R2: BUG Delver 2-1
g1 both decks work pretty well, which lets me come out on top :wink:
g2 I don't find my fourth land (despite having Top) and die.
g3 I win on my last extraturn with Thrun, after Pfiring his DRS. That was close.
R3: Red MUD 0-2
g1 I screw up hard, but I guess it didn't matter in the end. For those of you who didn't know, overlooking an active Welder can be pretty backbreaking :tongue:
g2 I can't handle his Forgemaster into Sundering Titan into Blightsteel. Feels like a rough matchup, what are your thoughts about MUD?
R4: Die bUrg (4-color Delver) 1-1-1
g1 I get beaten down by a single (!) Delver, because I can't find a removal spell (Deed gets countered).
g2 I still don't find removals, DRS and Explorers are working on each others life totals until I can resolve a Pyroclasm through a Spell Snare. Liliana and Garruk win afterwards, but it takes too long to start g3.
R5: Junk (without SFM) 2-0
g1 I win with Prime Time including Kessig Wolf Run after lots and lots of trades.
g2 I eventually win with Fattie into Fattie into Fattie against his mass of Goyfs, after he extracted my Deeds.
R6: LED-Dredge 2-0
I win both games pretty much by naming LED with Therapy and Pfiring my Explorers to ramp and get rid of his bridges. The secound game was close though, Titan + Wolf Run trample over Elesh Norn for the win.
so I end up in 12th place (36 players) with a record of 3-2-1, which I guess is OK for the first time playing that deck, even if the matchups were not that bad overall. I still feel pretty uncomfortable with sideboarding (especially siding out) and need to play a bit faster.
A specific SB question: Does a Miracles pilot side out the Counterbalances against us, since we have a strange curve and decays? And hence should I side out some (or all) of my decays (at least against the 4-Ponder-list)? My opponent from R1 said he did not side them out.
Greetings!
No they do not. Nic Fit decks while having higher CMC cards still have a high % of the deck that are CMC 1 and CMC 2. So they kept CB in, you keep AD in.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomatojim
thanks for the fast response!Quote:
Originally Posted by bryanzoll
I guess that makes sense, especially considering that Pfire is actually good against them (and Decay gets rid of RiP as well).
It's very pilot-dependent. Some will, some won't. There isn't really any way to know for sure. Decay is worth leaving in regardless because of random bullshit like Energy Field / Back to Basics (I know, I know, but I've had it boarded in vs me at times). It's also our primary way of solving Sensei's Top. Decaying Top in response to a fetch is very powerful. I wouldn't board any Decays out vs Miracles regardless of the Counterbalance situation, and in fact would board extra copies in if not maindecking them already.