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So I tried a legendary miracles list with Animatou and on her own she's underwhelming but when you get a snapcaster, v clique, venser, teferi or jace she becomes a real powerhouse. She also sets up predict and miracles consistently which is nice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Poron
Worst case is she sits on the board and either untaps a land or sees an extra card.
can you share your list,please?Quote:
Originally Posted by 1ron
https://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com...7643537163.png
New Abrupt Decay kills Jace
Gets countered, it can provide a free shuffle (we WILL play a brainstorm in response to it to throw away all crap from our hands now, won't we? ) AND it comes in a meta that, B2B made people put a greater number of basics in their decks. Us included. :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Poron
I am not really impressed.
That said, I can see the card played a lot but Miracles couldn't care less about it.
I can see myself playing a couple of Spell Snare now
I modified Ceralyst's list ever so slightly.Quote:
Originally Posted by polski
4 snapcaster mage
1 venser, shaper savant
1 vendillion Clique
2 Aminatou, the Fateshifter
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Teferi, Hero of Dominaria
4 brainstorm
4 ponder
4 swords to plowshares
2 portent
2 predict
1 search for azcanta
2 counterbalance
1 entreat the angels
1 councils judgment
4 force of will
3 Terminus
1 engineered explosives
2 island
2 plains
1 swamp
3 tundra
2 underground sea
1 karakas
4 Flooded strand
4 polluted delta
1 marsh flats
SB:
4 Thoughtseize
1 spell pierce
2 flusterstorm
3 surgical extraction
2 monastery mentor
1 back to basics
1 disenchant
1 ethersworn canonist
You must have been playing DnT. Weren’t you?
First of all, I don't understand why one would splash black for thoughtseize and Aminatou. You gain so little and lose a lot more. That's not even the best Black cards I have in mind for control strategy.
Second, relax on Assassin's Trophy. I see the discussion on reddit and other places. When people were running Abrupt Decay, people were also running DRS. In other words, you have to commit card slots to produce that Green Mana, gotta work for it, aint as easy as DRS. Great news for elves, aluren, food chain, maybe shardless bug, and lands, but I thought we're all paying attention to Grixis and Shadow.
Third, on the topic of Single Card Discussion, I feel we should re-consider celestial purge
Seen so many video coverage in which the Miracles player just lose to Lili, Last Hope. Purge a shadow, purge a gurmag, purge lili, purge bitterblossom, purge 20/20 that happens to be black. Say shadow player found their stubborn denial, snapcaster purge again. Further, it just happen to purge Chandra and other red idiots in Mono Red Stompy, along with Sneak Attack.
Honestly Aminatou is really strong with the legends build. Every time I've resolved her the game quickly changes to a favorable board state. Thoughtseize is okay sideboard tech but gives you a really good edge against unfavorable matchups.Quote:
Originally Posted by twndomn
I was running UWR for the longest time and am very happy with this change. The sideboard cards red has felt underwhelming.
Celestial Purge is great against Liliana, but creatures have never been a problem to us. Shadow creatures are all dealt perfectly with E.E@1 and I have never had problem with that deck(which totally scoops to Blood Moon, btw)Quote:
Originally Posted by twndomn
I like purge in this black meta
Many black spells unfortunately. Seize, Duress, Hymn. Not permanents
Purge seems kinda narrow. If I were to run it in then I'd start by looking at some of the other 1 for 1 removal spells I am currently running. Main I have 4 Swords (stock) and 2 Council's Judgement (sometimes I throw the 2nd one in the board but I've been liking the two in the main). In the SB I have 2 Disenchant. Purge is a poor sub for Disenchant (obviously) so then the question comes to, do I want to remove a CJ for a Purge? While purge is much more efficient and tempo oriented (2 mana instant) the problem is that CJ can hitalmostanything whereas Purge can only hit Red or Black Permanents. Miracles isn't a tempo deck and it doesn't care how long it takes to answer a threat as long as it gets answered.
On a different topic...
Has anyone been playing with Accumulated Knowledge and if so, how has it been for you? Have you been running it with Mentors or Entreat (or neither?) It seems that the plain UW lists have been dominating lately. Has anyone been keeping their Volcanics in?
I have been trying it quite a lot but it’s useless.
The third has given you the same cards as the third Predict where Predict allows you to mill opponent’s good cards or top card for CB. You just need to support Predict with some more cantrip like Preoardain/Portent..
We need something like UW Dreadbore.
PWs are too good against us.. and narrow answers like Purge don’t work. Think about Jace Ugin Karn and Nissa.
I'm going to be testing Accumulated Knowledge a bit after seeing it in a punch of decklists lately. Planning on cutting all Predicts and some of the Portents. Has anyone else been trying AK out?
Not yet. It seems quite interesting but right now I love predict so much.
The best thing about AK is that you can play them right away without all the cantriping you have to do to make predict good. Maybe I play it the next time.
Zac Allen is my new hero
http://www.starcitygames.com/decks/123763
AK and Purge.
I was determined to find out more about AK Miracles and where it came from. I dug around online and found in the miracles Discord #resources thread and I found this article posted by AnziD. (but not written by him ofc)
https://thirstforknowledge.home.blog...acles-who-dis/
The list at the very bottom looks well thought out and I like the reasoning for running AK over predict. Summed up, predict requires some set up which can be clunky. This set up is either a bad card on the top of your deck or a good card on the top of the opponent's. If it is countered you are stuck drawing a bad card (or in the case of your opponent, they will draw the good card you intended to mill).
I don't know about any of you but there have been times in which I've been under pressure from an opponent and I didn't have another cantrip or an extra mana to set up the predict and I've cycled it out of desperation. It feels pretty bad.
I've been doing some testing with the list from this article and I like the core of it. I think I'll shave a Main Flusterstorm for a single spell pierce since my local meta suffers from a lot of degenerate eldrazi players. I also think I'd rather have the 3rd Jace over the 3rd Mentor.
There is also a video link of Jarvis Yu playing the list in this article. I'll post it here to save you the time looking but I highly recommend reading the article to its end.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBO_zUn1JOw
The article is great. I've been playing an AK list all month leading up to SCG Baltimore and it's been really impressive. The lack of clunkiness cannot be understated at all; finding a window to cast a random 2cmc card versus 2cmc card + setup is a big deal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Misersoneof
It's also nice in a meta with a lot of hymns; each AK that gets Hymned turns into +1 card (or more) later. It comes up from time to time. And snapcaster when you have 2+ AK's in the yard feels REALLY nice in grindy matchups.
After reading the article i have to say i agree. From time to time you use predict only to instant speed draw your top card, for terminus och cb-tricks. With AK you can do that without wasting your two for one. I’m gonna try it out. Ive been persuing a proactive list for a while, i might end up running his whole maindeck.Quote:
Originally Posted by walked
Lawrence Harmon is the original person to work on this, he wrote the article and all credit goes to him.
Also, most of our discussion takes place on the Discord, please feel free to join us there :)
Invitation paz?Quote:
Originally Posted by Minniehajj
It's in the first post of this thread, in the primer.Quote:
Originally Posted by fluuu
Is discord actually better than thesource though? My experience is its mostly chit chat and not all that much lengthy texts. I also fear that the learning experience becomes worse as important discussions will drown in the white noise. It has a feel of temporarity, a snapchat for magic, rather than the great archive of the source.
I wish there were more action here.
Seconded. I thought it was just me being old and not wanting to change with the times, so to speak. I'm in discord chats (many of the legacy ones) but I don't ever use it because of the reasons you mention.Quote:
Originally Posted by JackaBo
Regarding Discord vs. The Source: Same goes for me. You've already wrote what were my immediate thoughts and feelings about it as I entered a Legacy chat for the first time a few days ago. I think it also was the last time I did a move like that. Better for me to stay here in the forums.
So~ Pro Tour 25 was the first major event involving Legacy post banning on 2018. After that, we have GP Richmond and SCG Baltimore. There're numerous smaller events in-between and after. Sometimes it's important to watch how other Miracles players navigate and manage opponent's permanents, you might realize that there're lines you did not consider the first time watching. But, to dig around stream recordings is time-consuming and tedious, here're the snapshots from major tournaments involving Miracles post banning.
SCG Baltimore
https://youtu.be/tWVl1ZGTiQE
https://youtu.be/uGbGDZ76spw
https://youtu.be/iKozLy_0uHU
GP Richmond or GP Reid
https://youtu.be/o0wldr152i4 31:30
https://youtu.be/u4VqOkHQHRM
https://youtu.be/vzPTi9QKSOE
https://youtu.be/k_qhpvH1_kY
https://youtu.be/dtFQQHeeQ8s
https://youtu.be/0A3n83EHjog
https://youtu.be/l1sR9tMx28E
Notice that the major of the lists used here are UW (Das ran UWr), I suspect we might see the popularity of UWr rises again.
Is Anuraag Das' list from Richmond around?Quote:
Originally Posted by twndomn
I thought it was interesting that the deck of the day was straight UW, and has been I feel going both into and out of Richmond.
It'd be interesting to see what value remains from the red splash.
https://twitter.com/anzi104/status/1043880068638896130Quote:
Originally Posted by PirateKing
just pyroblast
i play UW and I cannot stress how much the red splash helps against other blue decks. there has rarely been a game where i've been able to outplay my jace getting blasted or responding to a blast during a counter war. also the red allows you to board for blood moon (<$20) vs back to basics (now near $90), although considering that Volcanic Islands are $400+, thats not such a bargain lolQuote:
Originally Posted by PirateKing
I have UWr Miracles built, but it's not my first deck choice, but in the process of updating everything for Eternal Weekend I'm trying to dust off the rust with some of the card choices.
It's still running Portent Predict, and in the wake of DRS being gone, Accumulated Knowledge has risen to be the new preference, which makes sense.
It has a Gideon, Ally of Zendikar that should probably be a Teferi, Hero of Dominaria. I follow that well enough.
But then it seems every list dropped red while I wasn't looking. Going straight UW has its value, and Back to Basics does good work. But looking at Anuraag Das' list and a few other red splashes, they run Back to Basics over Blood Moon even though they have the choice. Is it so your fetchlands are still live? At the expense that their fetchlands are also live? I have two copies of each, so there is no budget concern.
I'm far from being an active Miracles pilot, and since the bulk of the discussion has moved off the Source, my goto point of smart people to leech off has dried up. For the most part reverse engineering a list is pretty elementary, and maybe I'm reading too much into it. That's only why I asked.
Blood moon as two major follies to it, which is why most lists have moved away from it, even if they do splash red.Quote:
Originally Posted by PirateKing
1) The new rules change with Marit Lage makes getting your blood moon killed by grip (which people are bringing in the dark for the most part regardless) a massive liability
2) Turning off our own fetch lands is a pretty big deal, but Blood Moon is actually just worse than B2B in a very wide range of matchups where B2B does something and Blood Moon does effectively nothing. These matchups include DnT, Sneak and Show, and even some of the Eldrazi/Post decks. B2B just serves as a one-sided armageddon, while Blood Moon would leave these decks still somewhat able to play magic via cards like Walking Ballista, in the case of Eldrazi/Post, and does nothing at all against DnT or Sneak and Show.
That's insightful, thank you.
I'm sorry, rule change?
Change to how Blood Moon interacts with "As *this* enters the battlefield" abilities on lands. Before Depths would still enter with 10 counts, now it does not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee
Oooh...Quote:
Originally Posted by whienot
Miracles noob here, do people leave or side in back to basics against Sneak/Show?Quote:
Originally Posted by Minniehajj
I leave them in/bring them in. Floor is it generally gets cantripped away or pitches to Force, ceiling can be very high and it's an out to Boseiju if you have it on time. The matchup is hard so high ceiling cards are good, even if they'll look embarrassing sometimes.
Vendilion Clique is normally stellar there. As well as REB and Flusterstorm.
Boseiju is surely the card I want to see the least. If you play Field of Ruin you should be fine without B2B
i'm slowly acquiring the pieces for this deck, last week i got a tundra, a jace, back to basics and some of the fetches i need; hopefully i will have completed it by early next year..i've decided to pick it up and stick to it for a long time..i'm leaning towards the u/w list..
this was a very good forum full of miracles pilots who are really very knowledgeable about the deck and i find it extremely helpful, sadly for me lately it feels like most of the conversation has gone to discord..the same can be said about the FB group..while i'm sure discord is good, i've been hearing many positive things about it, i just feel more comfortable with forums like these and prefer to read info here..also, i think discord is blocked here at the office..
i just wish this forum would become active again..