2x Mox Sapphire, Cavern of Souls, Patron Wizard for the mirrorQuote:
Originally Posted by Asthereal
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2x Mox Sapphire, Cavern of Souls, Patron Wizard for the mirrorQuote:
Originally Posted by Asthereal
Did I send my message to the wrong person?Quote:
Originally Posted by FTW
:rolleyes:
I counter one of your Moxen? :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by FTW
I pay the 1 with Cavern of Souls.Quote:
Originally Posted by Asthereal
I fear you have forgotten about a certain counterspell that's very legal for round 2.Quote:
Originally Posted by FTW
But no worries, I'll be posting about it in a minute. :wink:
DECKS FOR ROUND 2 OF THE VINTAGE BANNATHON
1. Asthereal (TO): Foil, Island, Nether Spirit, Chancellor of the Forge
2. FTW: Volcanic Island, Burning Inquiry, Foil, Nether Spirit
3. Wrath of Pie: Strip Mine, Mox Jet, Chronomaton, Cabal Therapy
4. GoblinSmashmaster: Mox Pearl, Crystal Vein, Balance, The Rack
5. Whoshim: City of Traitors, Lupine Prototype, Phyrexian Revoker, Steel Overseer
6. H: Mox Emerald, Lodestone Golem, Mishra's Workshop, Strip Mine
7. Tylert: City of traitors, lotus petal, show and tell, Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
8. apple713: Karakas, Iona, Shield of Emeria, Unburial Rites, Lion's Eye Diamond
Please post your scores and cross-check with the opponents.
I have updated the Google Spreadsheet for the season, so you can enter your scores there as well: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing
Note for the Bannathon:
With 8 participants, the top 4 scoring decks for this round will be banned for next rounds.
So if you want to start brewing for round 3 already, keep that in mind.
Asthereal scores for round 2:
1. Asthereal (TO): that's me, sporting the best legal free counterspell currently available: Foil, Island, Nether Spirit, Chancellor of the Forge
2. FTW: You have to cast Inquiry to accomplish anything, but if I Foil it, you can't Foil back anymore. 6-0
3. Wrath of Pie: I have to Foil either Mox or Therapy. Chrono becomes pretty big and Spirit has to eternally chump it? 2-2
4. GoblinSmashmaster: I Foil Balance. Chancellor stays in my hand, so Rack does 2 per turn while Spirit + token do 3, winning me the race. 6-0
5. Whoshim: That's not what my deck was desinged for, but... Foil stops Overseer, token stops Revoker and SPirit eternally blocks Prototype for two draws. 2-2
6. H: This o.t.o.h. ís. Foil the Golem. My dudes kill you. 6-0
7. Tylert: More combo for Foil to foil. 6-0
8. apple713: More combo for Foil to foil. 6-0
Total: 34 points
EDIT: Updated matchup against Whoshim, after I found a way to draw instead of lose.
5. Whoshim: City of Traitors, Lupine Prototype, Phyrexian Revoker, Steel Overseer
1. Asthereal (TO): Foil, Island, Nether Spirit, Chancellor of the Forge 6-0
2. FTW: Volcanic Island, Burning Inquiry, Foil, Nether Spirit 1-4 You win on the play. On the draw, I can play Lupine Prototype. If you counter, then you can't play Burning Inquiry. I will drop 2 threats and beat you. So you let it resolve, then play Burning Inquiry, then you can block my Lupine forever.
3. Wrath of Pie: Strip Mine, Mox Jet, Chronomaton, Cabal Therapy This matchup seems pretty complex, and I don't have the time today to calculate it. I will try to get to it tomorrow.
4. GoblinSmashmaster: Mox Pearl, Crystal Vein, Balance, The Rack 3-3 On the play, I can name Mox Pearl. On the draw, you Balance me.
6. H: Mox Emerald, Lodestone Golem, Mishra's Workshop, Strip Mine I think I win both games due to Steel Overseer, but I am not sure. I will try to calculate tomorrow, when I have more time.
7. Tylert: City of traitors, lotus petal, show and tell, Emrakul, the Aeons Torn 3-3 I can use the Revoker on the Lotus Petal to stop you when I am on the play.
8. apple713: Karakas, Iona, Shield of Emeria, Unburial Rites, Lion's Eye Diamond 3-3 When I am on the play, I can run out the Overseer. You drop Iona. I play the Lupine and pump to a 2/2 and 6/6. You swing for 7. I drop the Revoker and pump to 3/3, 7/7, 3/2 and swing for 7. If you swing, I will win. If you stay back to block, I will win. When I am on the play, you are faster.
16 points, with 2 matches to think through still.
Actually, at second glance I think we play two draws.Quote:
Originally Posted by Whoshim
My Chancellor token can block and kill Revoker.
My Nether Spirit van eternally block Prototype.
My Foil can stop Overseer.
If you cast Revoker and Prototype first, I can just let them resolve.
As mentioned, my goblin token will just trade with Revoker.
Protoype cannot attack as I always have cards in hand, and you still have Overseer in hand.
If you cast Overseer, I Foil it, and next turn get Nether Spirit online to eternally block Prototype.
So I think we end up in a stalemate with recurring Spirit blocking Prototype every turn.
1. Asthereal: Loosing hard to foil twice :) 0-6 --> 0
2. FTW: Foil again 0-6 --> 0
3. Wrath of pie: Win OTP, loose OTD 3-3 --> 3
4. GoblinSmashmaster: OTP: T1 = Show and tell --> Emrakul, you drop the rack. I go to (17), Then you proceed to balance, not to loose. I shuffle my graveyard in my library in this order from top to bottom: Emrakul, petal, city, show and tell. so i will attack again in 5 turns: i win. OTP, it's the same thing. if you balance T1, i take 18 then i win. if you don't, it's the same scenario as when i'm OTP. 6-0 --> 9
5. Whoshim: 3-3. revoker on petal wins on the draw --> 12
6. H: OTP, show and tell does it's job. OTD: you can play golem T1 and win. 3-3 --> 15
7. Me
8. apple713: Karakas owns emrakul :) 0-6 --> 15.
Total 15.
Google Spreadsheet has been updated for round 2: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing
No, I just said it was only metagamed for the Patron Wizard mirror :wink:.Quote:
Originally Posted by Asthereal
I played Foil too.
Right. I cannot 1+1 after watching Avengers: Endgame. :laugh:Quote:
Originally Posted by FTW
FTW: Volcanic Island, Burning Inquiry, Foil, Nether Spirit
1. Asthereal (TO): I lose to Chancellor. Nice trump card for the mirror. LL. 0-6
3. Wrath of Pie: OTP Burning Inquiry wins. OTD I think I have to Foil Mox Jet, then chump Chronomaton forever. WD 4-1
4. GoblinSmashmaster: OTP Burning Inquiry wins. OTD If you play Balance before the Rack, Foil or not I discard down to 1 card. The Rack and Nether Spirit both deal 2 a turn, but your damage starts first to win the race. WL 3-3.
5. Whoshim: OTP Burning Inquiry wins. OTD I have to let one creature resolve, Burning Inquiry the other two, and chump forever. WD 4-1
6. H: Inquiry/Foil wrecks you. WW 6-0
7. Tylert: Foiled again. WW 6-0.
8. apple713: Foiled again. WW 6-0.
Total: 35 points
1. Asthereal (TO): (Foil, Island, Nether Spirit, Chancellor of the Forge)
Can't beat Foil. 0-6
2. FTW: (Volcanic Island, Burning Inquiry, Foil, Nether Spirit)
Still, can't beat Foil. 0-6
3. Wrath of Pie: (Strip Mine, Mox Jet, Chronomaton, Cabal Therapy)
I think this might be a draw on the Play, since I can force the issue before Chrono is big enough to block without dying. I lose on the Draw. 1-4
4. GoblinSmashmaster: (Mox Pearl, Crystal Vein, Balance, The Rack)
On the play Lodestone makes Balance cost 3, so I don't think he can win, only draw. On the Draw, I lose. 1-4
5. Whoshim: (City of Traitors, Lupine Prototype, Phyrexian Revoker, Steel Overseer)
On the play, at best I can only draw, because I don't thnk Overseer is fast enough to get over 5 toughness before a block is needed. On the Draw, I lose in a variety of ways. 1-4
6. H: Bye, Myself.
7. Tylert: (City of traitors, lotus petal, show and tell, Emrakul, the Aeons Torn)
Lodestone should win on the play. I lose on the Draw. 3-3
8. apple713: (Karakas, Iona, Shield of Emeria, Unburial Rites, Lion's Eye Diamond)
Lodestone would seem to win on the play, lose on the Draw. 3-3
Looks like 9. I figured this wouldn't be great, as I made in a bit of a hurry, but it was actually terrible. :frown:
Total Points: 18
Opponent OTP OTD Explanation 1. Asthereal (TO) *Foil,*Island,*Nether Spirit,*Chancellor of the Forge L L Foiled 2. FTW *Volcanic Island,*Burning Inquiry,*Foil,*Nether Spirit L L Foiled 3. Wrath of Pie *Strip Mine,*Mox Jet,*Chronomaton,*Cabal Therapy W L 4. GoblinSmashmaster *Mox Pearl,*Crystal Vein,*Balance,*The Rack W L 5. Whoshim *City of Traitors,*Lupine Prototype,*Phyrexian Revoker,*Steel Overseer W L You had an elaborate explanation of why you win OTP but it's simple. Revoker on LED. 6. H *Mox Emerald,*Lodestone Golem,*Mishra's Workshop,*Strip Mine W L 7. Tylert *City of traitors,*lotus petal,*show and tell,*Emrakul, the Aeons Torn W W Karakas gets one :) 8. apple713 *Karakas,*Iona, Shield of Emeria,*Unburial Rites,*Lion's Eye Diamond X X
Win: 42.86%
Forgot about foil...
i think he wins both because you cast lodestone t1, he casts mox + the rack. T2 You attack, he plays crystal (to avoid strip mine) and then sac's it for 2 colorless to get to 3 mana to balance you.Quote:
Originally Posted by H
Draw both games.Quote:
Originally Posted by Whoshim
OTP
because of strip mine you only get to play one card
if you cast lupine first he will strip mine you and you cant cast anything or use lupine since he will hold cabal therapy. If you cast revoker naming chronomaton you draw because they can block eachother. If you cast overseer then you draw because they block eachother.
OTD
Oddly you arn't at a real disadvantage here. If he wants to therapy there is nothing advantageous for him to take since everything results in a draw. If he does cast it he must take lupine because this is the only card he can hold. He needs to play mox to cast chronomaton and stripmine to take your city. So he avoids playing it. Thus both games end in a draw.
GoblinSmashmaster scores for round "ban that other free counterspell":
1. Asthereal (TO): Foil, Island, Nether Spirit, Chancellor of the Forge 0-6
I get smashed by a Goblin. This is what I get for not playing Goblins.
2. FTW: Volcanic Island, Burning Inquiry, Foil, Nether Spirit 3-3
Burning Inquiry wrecks me, but The Rack outraces Nether Spirit.
3. Wrath of Pie: Strip Mine, Mox Jet, Chronomaton, Cabal Therapy 3-3
Whoever goes first locks the other out.
4. GoblinSmashmaster: That's me!
5. Whoshim: City of Traitors, Lupine Prototype, Phyrexian Revoker, Steel Overseer 3-3
Whoever goes first locks the other out.
6. H: Mox Emerald, Lodestone Golem, Mishra's Workshop, Strip Mine 6-0
Balance beats Golem in hand or play. I can pay the tax by spreading out plays over 2 turns.
7. Tylert: City of traitors, lotus petal, show and tell, Emrakul, the Aeons Torn 0-6
Spaghetti monster is too good.
8. apple713: Karakas, Iona, Shield of Emeria, Unburial Rites, Lion's Eye Diamond 3-3
Whoever goes first locks the other out.
Total: 18 points
Moving up in the world!
Hmm, yeah, that seems right, somehow I forgot that The Rack is obviously an Artifact.Quote:
Originally Posted by apple713
This is an interesting round as it seems like everything except for H’s deck will be banned because of a 5 way tie at 18 points for 3rd place.
Interesting indeed! :smile:Quote:
Originally Posted by apple713
Preliminary standings for the Vintage Bannathon, round 2 ("Ban (almost) all the decks!")
Rank, user, score, season points
1. Asthereal (TO): 34, 4,9
2. FTW: 29, 4,1
3. Wrath of Pie: 18, 2,6
3. GoblinSmashmaster: 18, 2,6
3. Whoshim: 18, 2,6
3. apple713: 18, 2,6
3. Tylert: 15, 2,1
8. H: 8, 1,1
Preliminary bannings for round 3 and onwards:
Balance
Burning Inquiry
Cabal Therapy
Chancellor of the Forge
Chronomaton
City of Traitors
Crystal Vein
Foil
Iona, Shield of Emeria
Island
Karakas
Lion's Eye Diamond
Lupine Prototype
Mox Jet
Mox Pearl
Nether Spirit
Phyrexian Revoker
Steel Overseer
Strip Mine
The Rack
Unburial Rites
Volcanic Island
EDIT: Tylert's score was wrong in the Google sheet. Updated everything.
I'm at 15, not 18. you can still play my deck next round :)
3. Wrath of Pie: Strip Mine, Mox Jet, Chronomaton, Cabal Therapy
1. Asthereal (TO): Foil, Island, Nether Spirit, Chancellor of the Forge DD
2. FTW: Volcanic Island, Burning Inquiry, Foil, Nether Spirit DL
4. GoblinSmashmaster: Mox Pearl, Crystal Vein, Balance, The Rack WL - I barely outrace Rack on the play by never playing Strip Mine.
5. Whoshim: City of Traitors, Lupine Prototype, Phyrexian Revoker, Steel Overseer DL - Revoker does things!
6. H: Mox Emerald, Lodestone Golem, Mishra's Workshop, Strip Mine WD
7. Tylert: City of traitors, lotus petal, show and tell, Emrakul, the Aeons Torn WL
8. apple713: Karakas, Iona, Shield of Emeria, Unburial Rites, Lion's Eye Diamond WL
4w5d = 17
You're right. There was an error in the Google sheet. I updated everything.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tylert
I get that Island is one of the most broken cards in the game, but are we banning basic lands too? This format could end very quickly. I assumed basics would be exempt.Quote:
Originally Posted by Asthereal
I’ll second this.Quote:
Originally Posted by FTW
How would the format end quickly? There are a million and one ways to generate mana even without basic lands.
Banning basic lands may arguably go against the spirit of MtG, but in this specific instance I fail to see how the format would become unplayable after a mere 8 rounds or so. There are dual lands, shock lands, pain lands, and countless cycles of enter-play-tapped lands.
I’d be more worried about the ban list becoming too long and cumbersome. It could make sense to ban a smaller percentage of top-performing decks. If there were decks in Round 2 that scored in the 30s, then I don’t see a need to ban 18-point decks.
Take with as many grains of salt as needed, since I’m just spectating.
Actually, the Birds are right in this case. There are very many ways to produce blue mana.Quote:
Originally Posted by FTW
If we ban three blue mana producing lands every round, we'll still have plenty of options for round 12.
Don't worry.
Also, don't forget about Snow-Covered Island, which is a different card.
Other cards you could use: Tropical Island, Minamo, School at Water's Edge, Seachrome Coast and so on.
Yes, I'll be banning Island, and no, it won't make any difference whatsoever. :cool:
All it does is ask our participants to be a little more creative than they have already been up to this point.
Neither do I, but the rules state I have to ban the top 4 scoring decks.Quote:
Originally Posted by BirdsOfParadise
If everybody scores the same amount of points, they all qualify, and therefore the cards they wielded must be banned.
Yes, the banned list will become massive, but that's the whole point behind the bannathon. :wink:
By the end of this thing, I'd like to see someone get stomped to death by a Brass Man.
If I am on the play, I can drop a Revoker on your Mox. You play Strip Mine. You can either hit my land with Strip Mine or play Chronomaton. If you play Chronomaton, I can play my Overseer. If you destroy my land, you can never play your Chronomaton. If I get the Overseer and Revoker on the table, I will win against a 1/1 Chronomaton.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrath of Pie
If I am on the draw, you can hit me with Cabal Therapy. If you take the Revoker, this will force me to play the Overseer. You can use Strip Mine on my land so that the Overseer is my only threat. This leaves us with a Chronomaton + Mox Jet vs. Overseer, with you having the first turn. I think we have a draw at that point.
Knew I was missing something, Revoker is not to be underestimated.Quote:
Originally Posted by Whoshim
UPDATED due to new information from others.
5. Whoshim: City of Traitors, Lupine Prototype, Phyrexian Revoker, Steel Overseer
1. Asthereal (TO): Foil, Island, Nether Spirit, Chancellor of the Forge 2-2 CONFIRMED
2. FTW: Volcanic Island, Burning Inquiry, Foil, Nether Spirit 1-4 CONFIRMED
3. Wrath of Pie: Strip Mine, Mox Jet, Chronomaton, Cabal Therapy 4-1 Agreed with by Wrath of Pie, but Apple thought it was 2-2.
4. GoblinSmashmaster: Mox Pearl, Crystal Vein, Balance, The Rack 3-3 CONFIRMED
6. H: Mox Emerald, Lodestone Golem, Mishra's Workshop, Strip Mine 4-1 CONFIRMED
7. Tylert: City of traitors, lotus petal, show and tell, Emrakul, the Aeons Torn 3-3 CONFIRMED
8. apple713: Karakas, Iona, Shield of Emeria, Unburial Rites, Lion's Eye Diamond 3-3 CONFIRMED
I don't quite understand apple's description of my matchup with Wrath of Pie though:
20 points as it stands now. That breaks the tie of decks at 18 points. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by apple713
Also, concerning the bans, I am happy with basics getting banned. Finally, a format that bans the most broken card in Magic history. :P
This is what apple713 means:Quote:
Originally Posted by Whoshim
If City -> Prototype, then Mine the City, cast Mox, cast Chrono.
Now both players keep a card in hand, so Prototype doesn't work and Chrono wins it.
If City -> Revoker, name Chrono (note: must be non-land, so cannot name Mine), then Mine the City, cast Mox, cast Chrono.
Chrono is now 1/1 and Revoker is 2/1, so Chrono blocks Revoker and both die for a draw.
If City -> Overseer, then Mine the City, cast Mox, cast Chrono.
Both will grow at the same rate and when one attacks, the other will be the same size, so it's a draw.
This means that if you are on the play, there are two ways to make the draw.
But this also means that with Wrath on the play, he can cast Therapy, but it doesn't help.
There are two cards you can play for a draw, and he can only Therapy away one.
You will always be able to cast the other one and secure the draw.
BUT
apple713 may have forgotten about an option: cast Revoker, and name Mox.
If City -> Revoker, name Mox, Wrath can't use Strip Mine immediately to kill City, as he won't be able to cast Chrono anymore, and Revoker will just attack for the win.
So Wrath has to use Mine to cast Chrono. Now you get to cast a second threat, and Wrath won't be able to recover.
This means that (barring oversights on my part) you win on the play.
On the draw things change a bit, as Wrath always gets a turn to use Mox for mana.
Wrath: Cast Mox, play Mine, use Mox mana to cast Chrono. Keep Mine untapped and ready to use.
You:
a) City -> Prototype. Wrath Mines your City, both players have cards in hand so Proto doesn't work, Chrono will win.
b) City -> Overseer. Wrath Mines your City, both creatures grow equally fast and it's a draw.
c) City -> Revoker, name Chrono. Wrath Mines your City, Chrono is 1/1 and Revoker is 2/1 so they trade and it's a draw.
d) City -> Revoker, name Mox. Wrath Mines your City, Chrono can't grow because no mana, but it's still a draw.
As you can see, both you leading with Overseer and Revoker leads to a draw. Therefore using Therapy on either doesn't work.
So on the draw, the game ends in a draw.
I think it'll end in 4-1 for you.
It also means Wrath's cards don't get banned because he ends up with 1 less point and in 5th place.Quote:
Originally Posted by Asthereal
Strip Mine, Mox Jet, Cabal Therapy, and my favorite creature stay unbanned.
I'll update everything before I announce round 3, which should be later today.Quote:
Originally Posted by FTW
Have to design my own deck first, which I haven't come around to just yet.
Apple did forget :( thank for fixing that for meQuote:
Originally Posted by Asthereal
Apologies for the late start. Something came up. But...
Round 3 of 4CB Season 2, the Vintage Bannathon, has started!
I have PM'ed myself my deck for round 3, so you can start sending me your decks.
You will find standings for round 2 and new bannings based on results from round 2 below.
DEADLINE FOR ROUND 3: Wednesday the 1st of May, at 6:00AM Central European Time.
(That's my time. Just send me the deck Tuesday evening latest, you'll be fine.)
PLEASE NOTE:
- The way you send your deck to me matters. Please send it in the way described below, so it doesn't cost me an hour of editing before I can post all the decks.
Please send your deck as follows: Goblin Guide, Mogg Fanatic, Pithing Needle, Cavern of Souls (so with card tags around each card, and not above eachother), with your Username and 4CB S02R01 in the topic. Many of you already did this for previous rounds. Thanks a lot, this really saves me the time and hassle of copying and pasting text and tags!
- The banned list (you'll find it in the second post and in the Google Spreadsheet). So keep an eye on what you send in.
After the deadline has passed, I will post all decks on the forum here, and you can start puzzling out your scores.
If you have any questions, please read the first two posts of this thread first. If you can't find the answer there, drop a message here. We'll answer a.s.a.p.
Also, the Google Spreadsheet has been updated: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing
Happy deck designing everybody! :cool:
Final standings for round 2:
1. Asthereal (TO): 34, 4,857142857
2. FTW: 29, 4,142857143
3. Whoshim: 20, 2,857142857
4. GoblinSmashmaster: 18, 2,571428571
4. apple713: 18, 2,571428571
6. Wrath of Pie: 17, 2,428571429
7. Tylert: 15, 2,142857143
8. H: 8, 1,142857143
Bannings from round 3 onwards:
Balance
Burning Inquiry
Chancellor of the Forge
City of Traitors
Crystal Vein
Foil
Iona, Shield of Emeria
Island
Karakas
Lion's Eye Diamond
Lupine Prototype
Mox Pearl
Nether Spirit
Phyrexian Revoker
Steel Overseer
The Rack
Unburial Rites
Volcanic Island
So that's still quite the list.
Less than a day until the deadline. We have just 3 enties so far. Is everybody on holiday?
i'm there. will Send something tonight :)
I'll be in soon, just trying to find the worst possible deck I can reasonably convince myself to play.
I just submitted worse ;-)Quote:
Originally Posted by H