Shadowmoor Info

You know, I think that Time Walk 3cc thing could be interested in a tribal merfolk deck, with merrow commerce. Seriously, you get to untap most of your permanents, draw a card, land drop, and swing *again*.

That could be interesting.

I actually think that will see play in Legacy. I'm not exactly sure where it will fit, but most decks will at least need to consider playing it. It's also interesting that although most of the current tier one probably won't end up running it, they will have to be prepared to face it in the tier two decks that will.

Hmm...It could pretty easily be a two of in 4c Survival.

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Originally Posted by AngryTroll

I actually think that will see play in Legacy. I'm not exactly sure where it will fit, but most decks will at least need to consider playing it. It's also interesting that although most of the current tier one probably won't end up running it, they will have to be prepared to face it in the tier two decks that will.

Hmm...It could pretty easily be a two of in 4c Survival.

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Survival? You sure? It is very color heavy and most Survival decks are 3-4 colors! Even with Birds it will be extremely hard to get the mana for it. I could easily see it in some kind of Red Control deck with a lot of accel like moxes and diamonds. Maybe with countryside crusher? I'll post a list in the N and D forum.

Between QRanger, Birds, and some work to the manabase, I think it'd fit right into Survival. AggroLoam is certainly another interesting home for the card, but that deck already crushes the matchups that have the most to gain from the addition. The same might be true for Survival, but I think that it at least deserves testing.

Oh, and don't forget, every time we get a new creature:
Lol, what do u guyz think about this in reanimator?

Preemptive RTFC. It doesn't work in reanimator. Save yourself the effort.

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Originally Posted by AngryTroll

Between QRanger, Birds, and some work to the manabase, I think it'd fit right into Survival. AggroLoam is certainly another interesting home for the card, but that deck already crushes the matchups that have the most to gain from the addition. The same might be true for Survival, but I think that it at least deserves testing.

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That's true. Quirion Ranger would help a ton. The deck would be a lot more commited to red, so I doubt it will see play in the four color lists. I really wnat to see a nice list thrown together.

This will be a house in Limited and Standard.

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Originally Posted by AngryTroll

Preemptive RTFC. It doesn't work in reanimator. Save yourself the effort.

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This is because it's a replacement effect. It never actually hits the yard

Dream Recovery {u/b}
Instant
Draw cards equal to the number of cards discarded by opponents this turn.

There must be some way to abuse this...

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Originally Posted by georgjorge

Dream Recovery {u/b}
Instant
Draw cards equal to the number of cards discarded by opponents this turn.

There must be some way to abuse this...

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Lol. Just add Chains of Mephistopheles and Cephalid Coliseum....

And it's not even terrible without heavy abuse. I could imagine that land, ritual, hymn, recovery would be very powerful play on turn 1.

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Originally Posted by georgjorge

Dream Recovery {u/b}
Instant
Draw cards equal to the number of cards discarded by opponents this turn.

There must be some way to abuse this...

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Not sure of its impact in Legacy, but I wonder what you could do with a card like this in Pox deck which have big trouble drawing cards.

I mean, Pox+Recovery for 4 mana is mana-ntensive for a deck like Pox.

Still, Hymn+Recovery is a 3cc combo : Target opponent discard 2 cards, draw 2 cards. Neat, for sure...

...but not that stellar without heavy abuse as said above...

It will be printed as Common I presume ?

[EDIT] Still, using Dream Recovery after a player discard his hand to LED (Ichorid mainly) carry his part of fun ^^

Riverkelp* http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/mana3.gifhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manau.gifhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manau.gif
Creature - Beasthttp://mtgsalvation.com/images/spoil...wmoor-rare.gif
Whenever Riverkelp or another permanent is returned from a graveyard to play, draw a card.
Whenever a card is played from a graveyard, draw a card.
Persist


The Bad:
- It's a 3/3 for five mana not called Morphling
- Disappointment: Does not combo with Cabal Therapy flashback ("when X is played" triggers at the very end of the process of playing a spell, while Riverkelp already got sacrificed as a cost)

The Good:
- When it dies, you draw a card and get a 2/2. So it's sort of two creatures in one.
- Ridiculous with Crucible of Worlds
- Draw two cards off Dread Return
- Draw an extra card off Think Twice or Deep Analysis

This set really has the most interesting cards I have seen in awhile. I can't predict which will have a significant impact on Legacy - and most cards pale in comparison to Goyf and Counter Balance. However, I bet the Recovery will see play. It could have some interesting interactions with many cards that see play in Legacy. Here's a bunch (some are admittedly unimpressive since the card sometimes just cycles itself).

Ill Gotten Gains
Wild Mongrel
Seismic Assualt
The :U: card that is like Mental Note... wtf is it called - discard two, draw two.
Hymn
Persecute
Survival of the Fittest
Basking Rootwalla
Dragon Stompy Morph Raider guy - lol
Hyppie
Thirst of Knowledge

I think the most reasonable is the replacement of Duress or Thoughtsieze in the classic Swamp, Ritual, Duress, Hymn-you opening. That opening costs you 4 cards while nabbing 3 cards from the opponent. Replace Duress with Recovery and you spend 4 cards/draw 2 while the opponent loses 2. Is this a MUCH better opening than before?

I think it's, unfortunately, too situational to be of too much use. Similar to Shadow of Doubt, it has many uses, but doesn't seem to be of of consistent power.

Although, it can be used more proactively, so it has that going for it.

Runed Halo looks nuts in Zvi's Balance/Top control deck, I could see this card getting a ton of use.

I dunno, I think Recovery could be lots of fun in some type of Megrim/Wheel and Deal u/b deck but I can't see it making that deck somehow more competitive. Recovery really has to be built around to make it good but if you build right it could be situationlly Ancestral Recall.

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Originally Posted by Peter_Rotten

The :U: card that is like Mental Note... wtf is it called - discard two, draw two.

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Careful Study.

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Originally Posted by Peter_Rotten

This set really has the most interesting cards I have seen in awhile. I can't predict which will have a significant impact on Legacy - and most cards pale in comparison to Goyf and Counter Balance. However, I bet the Recovery will see play. It could have some interesting interactions with many cards that see play in Legacy. Here's a bunch (some are admittedly unimpressive since the card sometimes just cycles itself).

Ill Gotten Gains
Wild Mongrel
Seismic Assualt
The :U: card that is like Mental Note... wtf is it called - discard two, draw two.
Hymn
Persecute
Survival of the Fittest
Basking Rootwalla
Dragon Stompy Morph Raider guy - lol
Hyppie
Thirst of Knowledge

I think the most reasonable is the replacement of Duress or Thoughtsieze in the classic Swamp, Ritual, Duress, Hymn-you opening. That opening costs you 4 cards while nabbing 3 cards from the opponent. Replace Duress with Recovery and you spend 4 cards/draw 2 while the opponent loses 2. Is this a MUCH better opening than before?

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In heavy discard it should a fine resource and it increases the chances of a broken Dark Ritual opening, which should be positive. On that note, wouldn't it be better to play this in addition to, as opposed to replacing, Thoughtseizes (which trumps Duress...)? As shown in the above posts there are a bunch of cards which suddenly make this from a cantrip intoan all-star. One point on that, the greater the effect you receive from the card (unless it is part of a broken Ritual opening) the greater the likelihood that you will need to see multiple cards into an answer NOW. LED & Ill Gotten Gains imply a combo deck or Ichorid doing something stupid, Survival making multiple discards is about to go ballistic, same with any deck utilizing a discard outlet for an effect multiple times in a turn. If you have an answer in your deck, this seems like a fine way to maximize your chances to see said answers.

I doubt Recovery will be very good, it's just way too situational. You need to do work for it to even cantrip. The amount of discard you'd need to use to make it reliable is, I'd estimate, way more than the amount of discard a deck would reasonably want to include. And if you're making your opponent discard three cards for it to be an Ancestral, well, you're already making your opponent discard three cards -- how? Did you play Persecute? Get lucky with Therapy? Draw triple Thoughtseize? Either way, it's going to happen pretty rarely, and much of the time you won't need the Recovery after that anyways. Hymn is really the best case for the card, which makes it a Thoughtcast, but you only get four of those (though, to be fair, there's also Verdict and the rest). And this is obvious, but what happens if your discard spell gets countered? Yeah.

For other uses besides "play it in a discard deck, derf", I thought there was a symmetrical version of Tolarian Winds, but can't find one -- even so, it wouldn't be a very good or reliable combo. You can also use it as a sideboard tool against decks which discard their own cards, but the only one I can think of which discards enough of them is Ichorid, and that's exactly the kind of deck which is likely to say "nice cards, how many of them are Crypts? okay, watch me kill you".

What card were you discussing as a candidate for Survival, above? I think the original reference got deleted with the rickroll purge.

Recovery could be used with Last Rites to Mind Twist the opponent and Windfall you at the same time, that'd be awesome to do IRL.

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Originally Posted by Sean McKeown

The latest errata on this card will most likely be {Q}: Remove target creature card in a graveyard from the game. Only ten or so years after the fact, Eater of the Dead will finally work as intended! And if you want to argue that the new text breaks it in older formats, because you can untap an infinite number of times to eat the same one creature in a graveyard, please bring that to our weekly Monday Legacy columnists like Chris Coppola to discuss the emergency ban on the now "power errataed" Eater of the Dead / Hermetic Study / any creature in the graveyard Legacy combo deck.

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Get working, folks.

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Originally Posted by Illissius

I thought there was a symmetrical version of Tolarian Winds, but can't find one

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Wheel of Fate? I mean, it sucks, but it's as close as you're going to get.

Winds of Change may be what you're looking for. It only cost red, so it should be easy to follow up with blue or black.

Wistful Thinking is pretty interesting if your opponent is down to 2 or less cards when you're playing Dream Recovery. +4 card advantage for :2::u::u:

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Originally Posted by Sanguine Voyeur

Winds of Change may be what you're looking for. It only cost red, so it should be easy to follow up with blue or black.

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Shuffle =|= Discard

Wind of Change doesn't force discard, like Tolarian ones do.

turn 1 seize followed by a turn 2 ritual + last rites + recovery sounds really good, no?

I remember there was a discard oriented deck a while back. It was never competive but it was FUN. It played that flip creature (flips to a 3/3 that's a also a Rack).

It just needed good card draw.

Recovery would be perfect in that.

It would work well as a 2 of in pox variants that play Dark Ritual. They already play Hymn, and Pox, and so it's 1cc Night's Whispers that doesn't cost you life (losing life is a big deal for Pox).

It may work well in some odd combo deck.

Beyond that, it's not great, because like I said, it's a conditional card that's usually at best a 1cc night's whispers that doesn't cost you life. You're better off with Confidant.

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Originally Posted by Mr.C

turn 1 seize followed by a turn 2 ritual + last rites + recovery sounds really good, no?

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2 lands, 1 Rit, 1 Last Rites, 1 Seize, 1 Recovery leaves you with 2 or 3 cards left in hand depending on if you're on the play or the draw. It in fact does not sound very good. Rit Hymn Draw 2 sounds better.

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Originally Posted by Clark Kant

I remember there was a discard oriented deck a while back. It was never competive but it was FUN. It played that flip creature (flips to a 3/3 that's a also a Rack).

It just needed good card draw.

Recovery would be perfect in that.

It would work well as a 2 of in pox variants that play Dark Ritual. They already play Hymn, and Pox, and so it's 1cc Night's Whispers that doesn't cost you life (losing life is a big deal for Pox).

It may work well in some odd combo deck.

Beyond that, it's not great, because like I said, it's a conditional card that's usually at best a 1cc night's whispers that doesn't cost you life. You're better off with Confidant.

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Maybe you meant my black/red discard deck I posted in the autumn last year. I played 16 discard spells + nezumi shortfang, red damage, Ensnaring Bridge and SDT. Therefore I must say that I'm not sold at it, because it's only good if you have a dark ritual in hand, otherwise you want to let your opponent discard at least the first two turns. So if you play turn 1 thoughtseize, turn two hymn and MAYBE turn 3 duress you can play it in the same turn and draw a card . AWESOME! But even if you have dark ritual AND recovery AND enough discard I don't think that like Illissis said your opponent would sit there and be watching you, doing nothing.
So I think SDT is the plain better card.

Sun-and-moon wheel {gw}{gw}

Enchantment - Aura
Enchant Player
Whenever a card would be put into the graveyard of enchanted player from anywhere the card is revealed and put onto the bottom of that players library.

SERIOUS graveyard hate in colors that need it (for decks that don't want to run Leyline). Often better than Crypt, especially against Loam and Ichorid.

There's probably also the possibility of some strange combo using Doomsday or Thought Lash...in the casual department.

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Originally Posted by georgjorge

Sun-and-moon wheel {gw}{gw}

Enchantment - Aura
Enchant Player
Whenever a card would be put into the graveyard of enchanted player from anywhere the card is revealed and put onto the bottom of that players library.

SERIOUS graveyard hate in colors that need it (for decks that don't want to run Leyline). Often better than Crypt, especially against Loam and Ichorid.

There's probably also the possibility of some strange combo using Doomsday or Thought Lash...in the casual department.

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That might see play in Encahntress. No more worrying about decking. I just decked myself on MWS so I really want to.

Then replenish kinda loses power.

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Originally Posted by Soto

Then replenish kinda loses power.

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That is true. Didn't even think of that.

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Originally Posted by Jak.

That is true. Didn't even think of that.

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I think the fact that it gives Enchantress something against Ichorid (and with Runed Halo, combo too) is worth the slight dissynergy, though.

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Originally Posted by Pinder

I think the fact that it gives Enchantress something against Ichorid (and with Runed Halo, combo too) is worth the slight dissynergy, though.

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Well I think it will be used, just not for what I was thinking. It definitely won't be MD and I am questioning if it is even worth the SB space. With Ground Seal stopping Dread Return and Elephant Grass owning them, it shouldn't be hard to stall until Confinement comes online. Plus, the deck isn't the most consistant.

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Originally Posted by Jak.

Well I think it will be used, just not for what I was thinking. It definitely won't be MD and I am questioning if it is even worth the SB space. With Ground Seal stopping Dread Return and Elephant Grass owning them, it shouldn't be hard to stall until Confinement comes online. Plus, the deck isn't the most consistant.

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I forgot about Ground Seal and Elephant Grass. I suppose Enchantress has anwers to Ichorid already. That's a good point.

Another card for Enchantress: [/irony]

Enchanted Eve :3::wu::wu:

Enchantment (R)
All permanents are enchantments in addition to their other types.

Because Overkill is always fun.

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Originally Posted by Soto

Then replenish kinda loses power.

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Only if you use it to prevent decking - in which case you won't need Replenish anymore (just draw your library again). The card is an Aura with Enchant Player.

With that considered, it seems playable, but playable and played are two different things.

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Originally Posted by Barook

Another card for Enchantress: [/irony]

Enchanted Eve :3::wu::wu:

Enchantment (R)
All permanents are enchantments in addition to their other types.

Because Overkill is always fun.

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Deed says hey.

Edit- And I know you are kidding. Hopefully...

What a strange card...but works VERY well with Cleansing Meditation / Calming Verse / Primeval Light for a one-sided Jokulhaups.

Whoa, another one...this gives Enduring Ideal the chance to completely wipe the board: first fetch this, then Serenity !

This block is just very very interesting.

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Originally Posted by georgjorge

Whoa, another one...this gives Enduring Ideal the chance to completely wipe the board: first fetch this, then Serenity !

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Except that Serenity isn't legal in Extended, and Ideal isn't good in Legacy.

Nice catch, though.