[Deck] The Rock

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Originally Posted by lavafrogg

All we do is post different lists and argue about them! Bring it on!

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Its already posted in the Junk/Aggro dirt thread, but essentially it plays a 2x Entomb package, alongside 3x GSZ, and plays a 4-shot of Smallpox. Unearth and Deathrite Shaman are great alongside Smallpox, probably the best enabler of Shaman I've toyed with yet.

For Entomb: 1x Life from the Loam, 1x Raven's Crime, dudes, especially Witness, if I have Unearth in hand

GSZ package: Pridemage, Goyf, Ooze, Deathrite Shaman, Eternal Witness, Dryad Arbor, 4 Knights

The rest is Swords, a single Abrupt Decay (all I have now), 3 PW's (1x Liliana, 2x Garruk Relentless), a couple Pulses and 5x targeted discard.

Where I really go off-track from other lists is my lack of Dark Confidant...which is controversial (at best.) I make up the difference by playing 2 copies of Unearth so I can cycle when needed or just recur dudes in the yard if they get killed. If my graveyard gets hosed, it becomes a cycler, nothing more, nothing less until I get a Witness recur going.

Actual list:

Dudes - 9
4x Knight of the Reliquary
1x Deathrite Shaman
1x Tarmogoyf
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Eternal Witness

Sorcery - 20
2x Thoughtseize
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Smallpox
3x Unearth
2x Maelstrom Pulse
1x Life from the Loam
1x Raven's Crime
3x Green Sun's Zenith

Instants - 7
4x Swords to Plowshares
1x Abrupt Decay
2x Entomb

Planeswalkers - 3
2x Garruk Relentless
1x Liliana of the Veil

Lands - 23
4x Wasteland
2x Bayou
2x Scrubland
1x Savannah
4x Verdant Catacombs
1x Marsh Flats
1x Volrath's Stronghold
1x Cabal Pit
1x Dryad Arbor
2x Swamp
1x Forest
1x Nantuko Monastary
1x Barren Moor
1x Tranquil Thicket


Yes, I know its 61 cards. Its basically to squeeze in land #23 (2nd basic Swamp.) I told you, no Dark Confidants and quite different than most decks. I am testing the setup and so far Unearth and Smallpox have been really good against RUG Thresh, but I haven't tested more than 3 games so far.

Mr safety: I have never noticed this before but why are you not running mox diamonds? The crd has minimal drawback in a loam deck and it seems like a no brained to me:/

I have got a problem. I dont know what list i should play for best? Hope you can help me. :)


Here is the big list;

Lands:
23 (including maze, karakas, wasteland)

Creatures:
4 knight of the Reliquary
4x Tarmogoyf
4x Dark Confidant
4x Deathrite Shaman ( i like him just in multiple times. Against a deck like RUG they can deal 6-8 dmg a turn.)
4x Stoneforge Mystic ( had him and his equipments already cut, Equipments: Batterskull, SoFaF, Jitte) When i cut stoneforge i would play 2x Umezawa's Jitte as equips

Instants:
4x Swords to Plowshares
3x Abrupt Decay ( i like it so much because it can destroy a creature for sure without beeing scared that it can be countered.)

Sorceries:
3x Thoughtseize
2x Maelstrom pulse (i thought about cutting him because it is expensive for 3 mana)
1-2x Pernicious deed ( i think i will only play one)
2x Vindicate
3x inquisition of kozilek

Artifacts:
3x Sensei's Divining Top
4x Mox Diamond

I like destroying hands but in my few test matches i never playe hym
Maybe she should go the sideboard against combo etc?

The following changes:
4x Hymn to tourach (3-4 moving to the sideboard)
playing with 23 lands.

What do you think about the spells with cmc 3? How many shall i play?

I'm playing Hymn in the board and it's been great. You bring it in when you really need it (Miracles and Combo) but otherwise, you leave it out.

Also, 22 lands with 4 Mox is a big no-no. Bump to 23 lands, 3 Mox.

-Matt

Random tangent. With deathrite shaman I have been favoring engineered explosives over abrupt decay/vindicate in almost all matchups. This means I hav brought glissa the traitor out of my crap rates pile as she plays very nicely with the explosives and the equipment I am running to help the shaman kick more ass. Still testing though.

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Random tangent. With deathrite shaman I have been favoring engineered explosives over abrupt decay/vindicate in almost all matchups. This means I hav brought glissa the traitor out of my crap rates pile as she plays very nicely with the explosives and the equipment I am running to help the shaman kick more ass. Still testing though.

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Why are you preferring EE over Decay/Vindicate because of Shaman? I know EE is a good card, but what I'm just curious what it is about Shaman that has you preferring EE.

only thing i can think of why someone would favor EE over decay/vindicate could be against miracles, getting by a counterbalance lock to maybe kill a jace with 4 sunburst-counter.
vindicate would not really work in this situation if they are floating a 3cmc on top
only other situation would be if you have got to face a lot of token.decs

Interesting point with how EE can get to 4 colors with Shaman. I still don't see why it gets the nod over AD though, since AD is still necessary to take out Delvers and Tops. Do be warned that EE in a rock deck can get messy, since a lot of what you want to kill will have the same CC as your permanents. I don't think Glissa does enough to warrant a slot in anycase, even in the equivalent modern deck (which I'm making and has these cards) she often dies immediately or requires too much setup to get the engine going. Perhaps with GSZ it can get more interesting.

even with GSZ glissa is just not good enough, even if she has first strike and deathtouch (her other ability needs too much setup as was already posted)

In my opinion, EE is the best sweeper in the format right now. It kills all of mavericks one drops and all of RUGs one drops in a single blast. The added utility to off anything with CC 1-5 is an added bonus and is super viable against tribal decks of all colors.

I am not sure why everyone keeps saying abrupt decay can kill a divining top but explosives can kill one under te same circumstances as well.

The glissa addition requires no set up and makes equipment/explosives stronger as well as being a beast in combat.

These are all just suggestions btw.

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In my opinion, EE is the best sweeper in the format right now. It kills all of mavericks one drops and all of RUGs one drops in a single blast. The added utility to off anything with CC 1-5 is an added bonus and is super viable against tribal decks of all colors.

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Just wanted to point out that an EE at 1 doesn't kill a flipped Delver.

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Originally Posted by Hanni

Just wanted to point out that an EE at 1 doesn't kill a flipped Delver.

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Sorry, 0-5.

I see the point that was made, however, EE and Abrupt Decay function as different cards, with, well, different functions:

1) The ability to sunburst on 5 with 2 Deathrite Shaman is a cool new toy for us. Yay us.

2) EE can kill a Counterbalance by paying XXY to Sunburst for two. However, the have a number of three drops to still nicely flip for Counterbalance.

3) EE can be countered very easily by Spell Pierce/Force/Daze.

4) EE usually takes 1-2 turns to perform its function.

5) EE usually is for taking out multiple threats of the same CMC.

6) Could kill a Jace if you're running Mox or Shaman.

Compare/Contrast this to Abrupt Decay.

1) Two mana uncounterable spell that kills most of the relevant threats in the format, including Delver, Goyf, Knight, Dark Confidant, Sylvan Library, Umezawa's Jitte, Swords of X and Y, Counterbalance, Detention Sphere/Oblivion Ring, Stoneforge Mystic, Germ Token, etc.

2) Did I mention uncounterable? This is a relevant action. Spell Pierce, Daze, and straight up Counterspell are cards in the current format. Getting rid of something for sure is a big deal, and at the moment, Counterbalance can be especially problematic.

3) Only kills one copy of the target in question, and is done at instant speed in one turn.

4) Has no option to kill Jace/Elspeth/Humility/Moat/Smokestack/etc.

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As you can see, they are different pieces of removal. EE is designed more as a mass sweep on a converted mana cost, and will be better against Maverick, tokens, etc. However, I disagree saying it's better against RUG: the question of uncounterability is huge in that game. I've won games I should have lost because I was able to remove a Goyf/flipped Delver without my opponent being able to do a thing. I've mucked Counterbalances that were locking me out by flipping 3's to counter my Pulses and Knights. I've also lost games by not clearing out Angel tokens, Goblin tokens, or even just Nimble Mongeese.

Again, the cards are different, but I think at the moment, with the amount of blue at play in the format, I want Abrupt Decay. Maybe I don't want 4, maybe I do, but I know I also want sweep, but moreso in the board.

-Matt

Played last friday, and most surplrisingly, lost to my overconfidence (or maybe deck variance? I dunno).

Won VERY EASILY against esper decks, combo match is still easy, but lost g2 and 3 to a merfolks (after crushing them on g1 and being wastelocked out of g2 and 3 :frown:). A similar thing happened against bw tokens.... won g1 easily, but on g2 and 3 i couldn't find either one of three pulses or 2 e. plagues (drawing 2 cards per turn with bob, and using top).... sigh. It happens. Nevertheless, I am quite happy with the deck, and these things must happen once in a while, I guess....

Deathrite Shaman has jumped to $9.99 get them before they get out of control!

Aw, come on, it was not funny the first time you did it, and it got even less now. (no offense meant)

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Originally Posted by Sughayyer

Aw, come on, it was not funny the first time you did it, and it got even less now. (no offense meant)

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Hey, sorry for looking out for you guys.

it is a viable card for this deck, its only nice from lavafrogg to inform us of the prize tag of this card and by no means an attempt to direct the thread in a specific direction
at least he was intelligent enough to get them before they rise in their prize

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Originally Posted by AggroSteve

it is a viable card for this deck, its only nice from lavafrogg to inform us of the prize tag of this card and by no means an attempt to direct the thread in a specific direction
at least he was intelligent enough to get them before they rise in their prize

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Neither the zero placements in the Legacy Open Top 16 nor the prediction of their financial expert (Chas Andres) that these will drop to $2 inspire me to buy Deathrite Shamans anytime soon.

Well, my aggro list with Lingering Souls card advantage failed me miserably at SCG Providence. I switched away from Stoneforge because she couldn't race combo. I spent many games pining for that pale girl with the weapons. As combo (read: Show and Tell) recedes slightly, I feel that Stoneforge deserves another chance. Here's my latest list:

1 Deathrite Shaman
4 Dark Confidant
3 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Tarmogoyf
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Teeg
4 Knight of the Reliquary

3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Batterskull
2 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sylvan Library
3 Mox Diamond

23 Land

SB:
3 Timely Reinforcements
3 Engineered Explosives
3 Thalia
1 Teeg
4 Surgical Extraction
1 Choke

- I love Hymn, but it's competing with so many spells in the two drop slot. Cutting it for 1cmc discard gives me more turn 1 action and doesn't clog up my hand when I'm playing other spells to try to keep up with a fast deck.
- Abrupt Decay hasn't been anything special yet to be honest, but it's nice to have a 5th removal spell for extra interaction
- I might change the Library to another Top. With all the shuffling this deck does, Top can be EPIC
- I am having trouble dealing with Jace. It may be time to include Maelstrom Pulse (maybe Vindicate) in the 75