Miracle Control

this deck is so slow that it needs a hard-lock (or just harder at least) in order to win. Goblin, Merfolk, DnT will just recover endlessly if we just Terminus them...

Moat does a better job. So does Pithing Needle.

Apart from the SneakShow matchup, when is Humility better than Moat?

Also, wouldn't Enlightned Tutor fix a lot a these problems? a singleton Moat and Humility in SB would make a totally different impact. So would, against storm a singleton Ethersworn Canonist (or RiP against Dredge and RUG)

Short recap of my tournament:
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post770492

Greetings

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Originally Posted by Einherjer

Stop talking about Explorer in Miracle, just stop!

I did top8 the Legacy Championship at GP Vienna (65 ppl) (placed 2nd after the Swiss -there were no elimination-rounds) with my list posted earlier.
Ill post more details in the days to come:
I won against:
No Opponent, Miracles, Esper, Jund, TES, UWr Control
and I lost against:
Ub OmniTell

after the event I challenged the guy placing first with RUG Delver and beat him 2-0.

Deck ran smooth, more info, backgrounds and pictures to be added :D

Greetings

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I prefer semi-whacky, yet creative suggestions to posts along the lines of "your idea is crap. look I did well in a tournament [no content given]".

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Originally Posted by klaus

I prefer semi-whacky, yet creative suggestions to posts along the lines of "your idea is crap. look I did well in a tournament [no content given]".

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Creative.... well... that's a ... special word.

In any way, having abstract or creative ideas, testing them and presenting the result is fine for me. But I get tired of people firing of random ideas and stuff... In any way, I excuse for me sounding probably a little too rude. Enjoy playing Veteran Explorers. But I am out for as long as it takes it to come back to real topics and useful discussion.

Greetings

which matchup do you side both the Supreme Verdict in?

RUG, Jund, Esperblade. I prefer Verdict over Terminus against Esper because you want to be able to cast your spell when you need it and not when you have to - Brainstorming the normal way is important in this MU. I think RUG and Jund are self explaining.

Greetings

3 RiP
3 Terminus
3 Verdict

I suppose you never lose 1 match against Jund and RUG. How do you feel your matchup against UWR Delver? it seems the natural spot for TNN and next standard for aggro decks.

and against Show and Tell decks? you run a lot of counters, but your list looks helpless against a resoved SnT (dropping just anything)

Jund and RUG are rather positive, but they can still catch you off guard with overly powerful starts. UWR on the other side, especially Turtenwalds list is a very good MU. You have 4 Swords 4 REB 3 Terminus 3 Verdict, they're not gonna do anything. Especially if everybody is cutting Stifles now they won't even be able to have superstrong starts, so yeah - I'd like to play vs UWR any day of the week, it's way easier than RUG.
My list is helpless against a resolved Show and Tell, but Show and Tell is probably never going to resolve due to the high amount of REBs + 2 Flusterstorms from the SB. There are, however, problems -> Discard in MonoU or Sneak Attack in Sneak and Show. I feel confident in beating MonoU, but SneakAttack is always very close. Show isn't going to resolve, but you might run out of Counters for their Enchantment - something might has to be done here for the SB - not too sure what, though. If I find out a way to make SneakShow positive enough I'll let you guys know - but I doubt this is possible without hurting any of the other MUs severly.

Greetings

Also, I notice the total disappear of Sulfur Elemental in any list. Has DnT become obsolet in your meta?

It is a very narrow SB card (just DnT I'd say...) but along side Vendilion it can be a huge alternative win condition. Overall for all those matchups where mana is a problem (Jund, Uwr)

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Originally Posted by Einherjer

Jund and RUG are rather positive, but they can still catch you off guard with overly powerful starts. UWR on the other side, especially Turtenwalds list is a very good MU. You have 4 Swords 4 REB 3 Terminus 3 Verdict, they're not gonna do anything. Especially if everybody is cutting Stifles now they won't even be able to have superstrong starts, so yeah - I'd like to play vs UWR any day of the week, it's way easier than RUG.
My list is helpless against a resolved Show and Tell, but Show and Tell is probably never going to resolve due to the high amount of REBs + 2 Flusterstorms from the SB. There are, however, problems -> Discard in MonoU or Sneak Attack in Sneak and Show. I feel confident in beating MonoU, but SneakAttack is always very close. Show isn't going to resolve, but you might run out of Counters for their Enchantment - something might has to be done here for the SB - not too sure what, though. If I find out a way to make SneakShow positive enough I'll let you guys know - but I doubt this is possible without hurting any of the other MUs severly.

Greetings

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The only thing that comes to my mind there is just Pithing Needle.. very narrow, again..

Well yes, DnT is no big deal in my meta but Sulfuric Elemental isn't just for this MU. It is useful against Maverick too, you can flash it in to block Nimble Mongoose without fearing to have it Dazed against RUG plus it's a very potent card for the Miralces-mirror. I just lack the space for such a card. :D

Greetings

that's it.. it's great against Moongose and DnT.. also in the mirror and as an alternative WC.. strange that it is disappearing that much from any SB

@Einherjer:

Grats on the top 8. I have a few questions about your list:

- Why the 3 Snapcaster Mage / 1 Vendilion Clique split, instead of 2/2 or even 1/3?

I see a lot of lists with 0 SCM / 3 Cliques MD. Joe plays 3 Clique / 1 Venser. Drew Levin suggested 3 Clique / 4 Jace. Do you play Snapcaster for the CB curve? Isn't Snapcaster Mage a nombo with RiP, and don't you have problems using it against opposing deatrite shamans?

I'm planning to test your list, but am considering a split of 1 Snapcaster Mage / 3 Vendilion Clique. That way, I can remove the Clique from the sideboard and add a Sulfur Elemental or a Moat :)


- Why only 3 CounterBalances maindeck?

Snapcaster Mage gives consitency and redoundancy to the deck..

in the matchups where he needs RiP, he will side out SM for RiP

SM is a great card and can be incredibly useful. I prefer to have a reliable alternative wc to Jace and Entreat... and SM isn't. I play Clique

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Originally Posted by Poron

Snapcaster Mage gives consitency and redoundancy to the deck..
in the matchups where he needs RiP, he will side out SM for RiP
SM is a great card and can be incredibly useful. I prefer to have a reliable alternative wc to Jace and Entreat... and SM isn't. I play Clique

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I've actually run w/o SCM for while (since his body was usually worthless), but brought back 1-2 copies to the deck for two reasons: CB curve, and (much more relevant) maxing out on virtual BSs. Having 2+ Miracles getting stranded in your hand just sucks so bad.

I was thinking about the fourth Jace for the same reason. Or go lower on Miracle spells...

Einherjer: against which deck do you side in REBs? just combo stoneblade (any kind) and mirror or even against RUG?

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Originally Posted by SirTylerGalt

@Einherjer:

Grats on the top 8. I have a few questions about your list:

- Why the 3 Snapcaster Mage / 1 Vendilion Clique split, instead of 2/2 or even 1/3?

I see a lot of lists with 0 SCM / 3 Cliques MD. Joe plays 3 Clique / 1 Venser. Drew Levin suggested 3 Clique / 4 Jace. Do you play Snapcaster for the CB curve? Isn't Snapcaster Mage a nombo with RiP, and don't you have problems using it against opposing deatrite shamans?

I'm planning to test your list, but am considering a split of 1 Snapcaster Mage / 3 Vendilion Clique. That way, I can remove the Clique from the sideboard and add a Sulfur Elemental or a Moat :)


- Why only 3 CounterBalances maindeck?

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Thanks!

I really prefer Snapcaster Mage to Vendilion Clique on so many Levels. First of all it flashbacks Brainstorm, the most important card in our deck. Setting up Miracles that have been stranded in our hand or simply casting a draw 3, put 2 back, shuffle is fine for me. Additionally it gives me 7 answers to Gaddock Teeg, opposed to 4 or 3 ( I will never ever understand three Swords to Plowshares). Postsideboard you get 4 REBs which are great against Show/Control - all to be flashbacked by Snapcaster Mage. I really dislike Clique as of now. You pretty much only want it vs Combo/Control - it's okay vs Tempo and sucks vs everything else. I am fine with 1/1 Clique MB/SB but there is nothing worse than stacked Cliques. Snapcaster on the other side will pretty much always generate some kind of CA or Tempo. And yeah, having three additionaly two-drops is fine for me, too :D

When I play against RUG Delver I board in 3 Rest in Peace while NOT removing Snapcaster Mage. Why, one might ask? Well, glad you asked. First of all Snapcaster is great due to all the points mentioned above - mostly doubling as a Cantrip or a Removal. Once you land Rest in Peace Tarmogoyf will be invalidated, Delver will probably not survive 4 REB 4 Swords 6 Massremoval and Nimble Mongoose can be ambush-vipered by Snapcaster Mage. In short: When you have Snapcaster Mage, it's great. If you have RIP you probably don't need Snapcaster any more.

Well, I think three Counterbalances are enough, though playing a fourth would be great, had I had the slots... which I don't :D

EDIT: I board in REBs against: Control (swapping one Plains for one Mountain), Combo (swapping one Plains for one Mountain), Tempo (adding one Mountain). So pretty much all of the field, Legacy has never been as blue as it is now.

Greetings

Against sneak and show I've been boarding in http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Ca...tiverseid=4584

She can't be red elemental blasted, they don't run bolt or anything. Also decent against a few other match ups.

I was actually looking into Linvala, Keeper of Silence. Shuts down Sneak and Gris. Sadly we still get eaten by jellyfish if she's our out, but she's better than D-Sphere Vs 2-thirds of their attacks. I mean, yeah a 7/7 Flying Lifelink is still kind of a ballache, but we do have removal for that.

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Originally Posted by YamiJoey

I was actually looking into [card]Linvala, Keeper of Silence[/card]. Shuts down Sneak and Gris. Sadly we still get eaten by jellyfish if she's our out, but she's better than D-Sphere Vs 2-thirds of their attacks. I mean, yeah a 7/7 Flying Lifelink is still kind of a ballache, but we do have removal for that.

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Sorry, but no. Linvala only affects creatures, so Sneak Attack works just fine. If you are in the market for pithing needles with legs, you might as well go for Phyrexian Revoker at half the price.