[Primer/Deck] Pox

Just wanted to chime in on the Loam version of this deck.
Anyone try out some new tech or have current tourney reports?

I recently made some edits, took out 2x IOK and replaced with an additional Collective Brutality and Raven's Crime.
Also added a Diabolic Edict and Bontu's Last Reckoning to the sideboard.

I feel like I want another Mirri's Guile and Mox Diamond, thoughts?

Short tourney report:
vs High Tide: (2-0) Won off discard/Surgical on High Tide, Raven's Crime did alot of work.

vs RUG Lands: (0-1-1) Grindfest, opponent had me on Bojuka Bog/Wasteland lock (he would Wasteland his own Bog to recur and wipe my yard). I also got locked down by Rishadan Port early and couldn't recover. Had a better shot game two but we ran out of time.

vs Eldrazi: (1-2) Opponent drops an early Chalice and I have a bunch of 1-cmc cards in hand. Then proceeds to overwhelm the board. Game two I manage to Hymn and get two of his sol lands turn 2, he doesnt recover and I pull too far ahead. Game 3 I keep with Bontu's Last Reckoning in the opening 7 but Thorn and later Thought-Knot Seer make sure I never cast it...

vs Manaless Dredge: (2-0) Opponent had weak early Dredges and I also had timely Bojuka Bogs. Tabernacle won both games as he was not able to keep creatures in play due to being "Manaless" Dredge. Also, did a neat play where I destroyed my own Bloodghast to exile his Bridge From Belows...

Overall enjoying the deck, constantly tweaking and looking for new tech.
Here's the updated list:

Lands (27)
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Bayou
3 Mishra's Factory
3 Wasteland
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Swamp
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Forest
1 Barren Moor
1 Dark Depths
1 Cabal Pit
1 Bojuka Bog
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Polluted Delta
1 Windswept Heath

Creatures (3)
2 Bloodghast
1 Nether Spirit

Planeswalkers (2)
2 Liliana of the Veil

Spells (24)
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Smallpox
3 Hymn to Tourach
3 Life from the Loam
2 Entomb
2 Collective Brutality
2 Cabal Therapy
2 Fatal Push
1 Thoughtseize
1 Raven's Crime
1 Crop Rotation
1 Toxic Deluge

Other (4)
3 Mox Diamond
1 Mirri's Guile

Sideboard (15)
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Chains of Mephistopheles
1 Crop Rotation
1 Lost Legacy
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Pithing Needle
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Bontu's Last Reckoning
1 Coffin Purge
1 Engineered Plague
1 Karakas

I don't play the Loam version, but Mirri's Guile seems pretty strong especially given how often we're in topdeck mode, and you run enough fetches to make it good. Could you run more maybe? I don't know about Diamond, since it is card disadvantage and the ramp doesn't seem tootoo great... Is there a reason you don't play Crucible? I guess LftL has it covered pretty well?

Here's my MonoBlack list, in case anyone is interested in helping out. Looking to find something to cut for the 4th Liliana and maybe a Maze of Ith and a Crucible of Worlds. I cut Sinkholes for Collective Brutalities, not sure how I feel about it yet as keeping people off their lands is pretty solid. Brutality is probably the better card though, just for flexibility's sake. Still haven't gotten round to swapping Innocent Bloods for Fatal Pushes, but maybe soon.

2 Nether Spirit

1 Darkblast
3 Dark Ritual

1 Night of Souls' Betrayal

2 Ratchet Bomb
3 Cursed Scroll

1 Pox
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Beseech the Queen
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Duress
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Smallpox
2 Innocent Blood
2 Collective Brutality

3 Liliana of the Veil

1 Cabal Pit
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Wasteland
14 Swamp

SB
1 Massacre
2 Engineered Plague
1 Trinisphere
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Spinning Darkness
1 Sun Droplet
1 Pithing Needle
1 Tombstalker
2 Duress
2 Faerie Macabre
2 Lost Legacy

So, i'm going to let you know that the fifth and sixth one mana discard spells are slightly excessive. they'll wind up clogging your hand when you're in a pseudo top deck war and need gas, i would recommend one of those for the 4th liliana and the other into a crucible or third brutality, or possibly into your first push, since i don't mind two push one innocent. I still like being able to hit zombie fish when able. I also think you want at least one, possibly two, more Urborg. the main darkblast might be better off as another push or brutality. I think the sideboard is going to need some tinkering, but that's a matter of how your meta looks and what you have access to.

Thanks, that's good to know. I'll probably cut the Therapy for the 4th Liliana then and maybe go to 3 IoK 1 Duress and fill out the empty slot with Maze of Ith or something.

My meta is a lot of fair decks (blade, delver, etc) and one or two storm decks/burn/elves. If you have any sideboard suggestions for those matchups, I'm all ears. I put the Darkblast in the main since it seems solid against most of that field (and has synergy with the symmetrical discard effects/Collective Brutality). But maybe it's not necessary.

I'm definitely going to increase the Urborgs, they're in the mail :) already lost enough games to not having double black at the right time

Thanks for the advice!

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Originally Posted by streetMage

Just wanted to chime in on the Loam version of this deck.
Anyone try out some new tech or have current tourney reports?

I recently made some edits, took out 2x IOK and replaced with an additional Collective Brutality and Raven's Crime.
Also added a Diabolic Edict and Bontu's Last Reckoning to the sideboard.

I feel like I want another Mirri's Guile and Mox Diamond, thoughts?

Short tourney report:
vs High Tide: (2-0) Won off discard/Surgical on High Tide, Raven's Crime did alot of work.

vs RUG Lands: (0-1-1) Grindfest, opponent had me on Bojuka Bog/Wasteland lock (he would Wasteland his own Bog to recur and wipe my yard). I also got locked down by Rishadan Port early and couldn't recover. Had a better shot game two but we ran out of time.

vs Eldrazi: (1-2) Opponent drops an early Chalice and I have a punch of 1-cmc cards in hand. Then proceeds to overwhelm the board. Game two I manage to Hymn and get two of his sol lands turn 2, he doesnt recover and I pull too far ahead. Game 3 I keep with Bontu's Last Reckoning in the opening 7 but Thorn and later Thought-Knot Seer make sure I never cast it...

vs Manaless Dredge: (2-0) Opponent had weak early Dredges and I also had timely Bojuka Bogs. Tabernacle won both games as he was not able to keep creatures in play due to being "Manaless" Dredge. Also, did a neat play where I destroyed my own Bloodghast to exile his Bridge From Belows...

Overall enjoying the deck, constantly tweaking and looking for new tech.
Here's the updated list:

Lands (27)
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Bayou
3 Mishra's Factory
3 Wasteland
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Swamp
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Forest
1 Barren Moor
1 Dark Depths
1 Cabal Pit
1 Bojuka Bog
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Polluted Delta
1 Windswept Heath

Creatures (3)
2 Bloodghast
1 Nether Spirit

Planeswalkers (2)
2 Liliana of the Veil

Spells (24)
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Smallpox
3 Hymn to Tourach
3 Life from the Loam
2 Entomb
2 Collective Brutality
2 Cabal Therapy
2 Fatal Push
1 Thoughtseize
1 Raven's Crime
1 Crop Rotation
1 Toxic Deluge

Other (4)
3 Mox Diamond
1 Mirri's Guile

Sideboard (15)
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Chains of Mephistopheles
1 Crop Rotation
1 Lost Legacy
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Pithing Needle
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Bontu's Last Reckoning
1 Coffin Purge
1 Engineered Plague
1 Karakas

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I played Vampire Hexmage in my Bg Pox/Depths list instead of Bloodghast/Nether Spirit. It makes your combo faster/more consistent and it's a better beater than either Bloodghast or Nether Spirit. You don't get them back, but first strike and Jace-killing more than make up for it. I also played all 4 Crop Rotations, they are good for more than just getting the combo: Wasteland, Cabal Pit, Bojuka Bog, Karakas, Maze of Ith...all fantastic targets for Crop Rotation.

So for the SB, if you're expecting fair decks, the duress are going to be fairly underwhelming, as they're either going to hit very little that matters, or you can expect a 'Brainstorm in response.' If you have a lot of the creature based fair decks, i like some number of additional toxic deluge and/or Night of Souls' Betrayal in the board. I also think that Extirpate is a better way to hate on Graveyards than Faerie Macabre in this deck, since it's just as unlikely to get countered and ensures that you don't have to deal with ___ again this game. Unless you expect enough burn to truly justify running 3 sun droplets, I recommend zero sun droplets and either put chalice or collective brutality in that slot, since they are both also good vs burn and have more utility elsewhere.

This my current list. 58 cards main + 2 slots TBD.

// Lands
4 [TE] Wasteland
4 [4E] Mishra's Factory
4 [M15] Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
12 [M13] Swamp (3)

// Creatures
2 [MM] Nether Spirit

// Spells
2 [M14] Ratchet Bomb
4 [EMA] Sinkhole
4 [OD] Innocent Blood
3 [IA] Dark Ritual
3 [ISD] Liliana of the Veil
1 [IA] Pox
4 [FE] Hymn to Tourach
4 [CN2] Inquisition of Kozilek
4 [TSP] Smallpox
3 [TE] Cursed Scroll

Last 2 slots : I've tried CB and haven't been that impressed. It can indeed do a bunch of things, but none of them very well. If I want to kill a Goyf, it won't be able to. The discard mode is quite inconsistent. The life drain is pretty much insignificant in and of itself. In short, I have tried it and haven't been a big fan. The other options I'm currently looking at are :

Option 1 : +1 Liliana, +1 Ratchet Bomb. Pretty self-explanatory. Lili used to be a 4of in Pox lists. It's 70$/€ for a reason. It's the one card in our deck that is a huge immediate threat to the opponent's chances of winning the game if he can't deal with it very quickly. I have then one last open slot. I choose Ratchet Bomb because this is another card that (also like Liliana) helps us achieve control of the board and get rid of whatever may have gone through, which is mandatory for us to win.

Option 2 : +2 Night's Whisper. Compared to Option 1 this is trying to go for consistency, helping you refuel in the mid- to late- game. I find myself in topdeck wars a tad too often for my tastes.

Option 3 : +2 Bitterblossom, -4 Inquisition of Kozilek, +4 Cabal Therapy (or a 2 IoK/2 CT split). Finally, this is another completely different route. BB should make it far easier to close out games (hopefully shortening risky topdeck wars). We're hurting ourselves in the process. Basically it feels like getting the ability to put a lot more pressure on the opponent early on and grab more wins, at the cost of putting ourselves in a worse position in games where things were already going bad anyway.

No. It is fair, balanced and totally pointless.

So the issues I have with night's whisper are that it costs both mana and life, which are two very tight resources when you are playing pox, in spite of the 24 land mana base. If you're looking for a card advantage engine, I recommend either on nixilis reignited since it kills creatures and puts late game dark rituals to good use, or crucible of worlds since it lets you do a number on the fair decks with your choice of wasteland locking or cabal pit. Alternatively, if you have a lot of elves and d&t, you can run Liliana the last hope to machine gun down boards while building up to a game ending ultimate. If you want honest card draw but don't feel like running ob, I would go with phyrexian arena over night of souls betrayal

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Originally Posted by Quitrex

So the issues I have with night's whisper are that it costs both mana and life, which are two very tight resources when you are playing pox, in spite of the 24 land mana base. If you're looking for a card advantage engine, I recommend either on nixilis reignited since it kills creatures and puts late game dark rituals to good use, or crucible of worlds since it lets you do a number on the fair decks with your choice of wasteland locking or cabal pit. Alternatively, if you have a lot of elves and d&t, you can run Liliana the last hope to machine gun down boards while building up to a game ending ultimate. If you want honest card draw but don't feel like running ob, I would go with phyrexian arena over night of souls betrayal

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Nixilis reignited costs 5. It's a huge no-no.

Crucible has never satisfied me in this deck either. It just helps you make the game longer without actually winning. If I can cast it after playing Smallpox, then I don't need more mana anyway. If I cast it before, then that was a turn I couldn't do anything else. Wastelock feels inconsistent against good opponents that know to fetch basics. It makes no real sense for me as a miser's 1-of in the MD. I agree it's an excellent SB card though versus greedy manabases or typically Lands.

I've thought about Phyrexian Arena, but it was too horrible a topdeck.

Bob?

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Originally Posted by Mr. Safety

I played Vampire Hexmage in my Bg Pox/Depths list instead of Bloodghast/Nether Spirit. It makes your combo faster/more consistent and it's a better beater than either Bloodghast or Nether Spirit. You don't get them back, but first strike and Jace-killing more than make up for it. I also played all 4 Crop Rotations, they are good for more than just getting the combo: Wasteland, Cabal Pit, Bojuka Bog, Karakas, Maze of Ith...all fantastic targets for Crop Rotation.

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That sounds cool. What does the list look like?

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Originally Posted by Hardcore

Bob?

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We're playing 4-5 Pox effects and Nether Spirit. Creatures are not really an option (unless they have some built-in way to come back).

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Originally Posted by ParkerLewis

We're playing 4-5 Pox effects and Nether Spirit. Creatures are not really an option (unless they have some built-in way to come back).

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Reid Duke disagrees with you.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Safety

Reid Duke disagrees with you.

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Wheres the source? If I google 'Reid Duke Pox' the first 2 links that come up are from 2011 and 2017 and in both lists he's not playing any maindeck creatures except Nether Spirit x2

In the new list he has 4 Bob SB, but I don't think it makes sense to maindeck this card (Nether Spirit dis-synergy and your opponent will have all their removal game 1).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr. Safety

I played Vampire Hexmage in my Bg Pox/Depths list instead of Bloodghast/Nether Spirit. It makes your combo faster/more consistent and it's a better beater than either Bloodghast or Nether Spirit. You don't get them back, but first strike and Jace-killing more than make up for it. I also played all 4 Crop Rotations, they are good for more than just getting the combo: Wasteland, Cabal Pit, Bojuka Bog, Karakas, Maze of Ith...all fantastic targets for Crop Rotation.

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Hexmage is cool tech, seems like a deck for Volrath's Stronghold and Liliana, the Last Hope.

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Originally Posted by ParkerLewis

Crucible has never satisfied me in this deck either. It just helps you make the game longer without actually winning. If I can cast it after playing Smallpox, then I don't need more mana anyway. If I cast it before, then that was a turn I couldn't do anything else. Wastelock feels inconsistent against good opponents that know to fetch basics. It makes no real sense for me as a miser's 1-of in the MD. I agree it's an excellent SB card though versus greedy manabases or typically Lands.

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While I've not tested enough with it, I play some ghost quarters for that reason. Still hits some really greedy manabases, and most decks aren't playing enough basics that it can't lock.

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Originally Posted by dunstilbrejik

While I've not tested enough with it, I play some ghost quarters for that reason. Still hits some really greedy manabases, and most decks aren't playing enough basics that it can't lock.

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Yes. I can see Crucible as a viable card, but then I'd want to reliably have it so that building around it makes sense, like with GQ. Which would mean something like a 3-of... but I don't think the shell of the deck is optimal for that (better look at Stax decks I'd say, which can actually cast it fast enough for it to be acceptable). I just don't think this is the right deck for Crucible.

For now, I'm steering towards option 3 (2 Bitterblossom, and a 2/2 split between IoK and CT).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kombatkiwi

Wheres the source? If I google 'Reid Duke Pox' the first 2 links that come up are from 2011 and 2017 and in both lists he's not playing any maindeck creatures except Nether Spirit x2

In the new list he has 4 Bob SB, but I don't think it makes sense to maindeck this card (Nether Spirit dis-synergy and your opponent will have all their removal game 1).

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I saw him do a MODO video with Pox and he sideboarded Dark Confidant, and did quite well doing so.

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Originally Posted by Clark Kant

That sounds cool. What does the list look like?

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Sorry, I missed this the first time around. My old list was (roughly) like this:

4x Vampire Hexmage
3x Thoughtseize
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Hymn to Tourach
4x Smallpox
3x Abrupt Decay
1x Pernicious Deed
3x Life from the Loam
4x Crop Rotation
2x Sylvan Library
3x Liliana of the Veil
1x Garruk Relentless

4x Wasteland
4x Urborg
4x Verdant Catacombs
1x Bayou
2x Woodland Cemetery
3x Swamp
1x Forest
2x Barren Moor
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Cabal Pit
1x Dark Depths
1x Thespian's Stage

Sideboard
1x Maze of Ith
1x Karakas
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Pernicious Deed
1x Maelstrom Pulse
2x Dismember
1x Darkblast
2x Golgari Charm
2x Pithing Needle
2x (Can't Remember, lol, maybe Disfigure?)


My basic Forest put in a lot of work, lol. I was playing Woodland Cemetery as Bayou #2-3, just because of availability. They work fine with Urborgs but aren't fetchable (and I really can't squeeze more fetches in anyways, lol.) I did live the dream a few times of killing Jaces with Hexmage.

If I were to do this today I would try to work in Fatal Push main, probably taking out the maindeck Deed and one Library/1mana discard for a couple copies. I don't think the deck could handle many more colorless lands, honestly, so Volrath's Stronghold would be hard to work in. I did that with Eternal Witness for a while, but I got mana-screwed too many times to keep it. Turbo Depths uses a ton of colorless lands, but it also runs in the area of 27-28 lands so DD/Stage are really spell slots, not lands. This deck was a grindy pox deck with 'oops, I win' included. I trimmed it down to utility lands, combo, and pox effects.

I loved the deck, it was super fun to play. It played out with some of the best removal (at the time) with Decay/Liliana and it didn't take forever to win because it could rip a Depths pretty consistently with Hexmage/Rotation. Garruk Relentless was actually really decent, fairly underrated as a good grind card. I would also work in a Mishra's Factory (or maybe even a Treetop Village) as an alternative threat to find with Rotation if my DD get's extracted.