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DO you plan on splashing green? I haven't played too many games since I've added the Shamans but considering all of the lifeloss I take I have found that tapping for +2 life would be awesome. I like my mana base and don't want to splash for green...unless a miser bayou? Let me know if you run into the same dilemma.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rizso
Planning to only have a bayou for green mana.
I tried a greensplash and it was only mediocre. I run 8 Fetchlands of which 4 are Verdant Catacombs and simply added a Bayou and cut a swamp. I mainly splashed for Deathrite Shaman and Abrupt Decay. My Conclusion was, that Deathrite Shaman does NOT accelerate mana, for our most important spells are cmc2. He often eats removal cause somehow a lot of people are scared of him. His recurring 2 dmg/life is quite okay and he turns horrible round 1 match-ups like dredge into winnable match-ups - winnable, not easy nor surely winnable. In the end i removed him from the deck. I figured other cards would fit better: A second jitte, perhaps moms, perhaps blossoms, perhaps persecutions. He was okay, but as we all know, "okay" is just the little sister of "bad".
Abrupt Decay was a bit longer in my deck. Mostly you traded stability for utility - means: When i drew it and had access to G it was great. Turns CB match-ups into gold. The problem is, that G is not optional for Abrupt Decay like it is for Deathrite Shaman. If your Bayou gets wasted (or you didnīt fetch for Duals the first few rounds, cause you know that your opponent runs Wastelands) you will have 2-3 useless cards in your deck. After some testing I also dropped Abrupt Decay again, fixed my Manabse (added a Karakas) and Iīm currently very happy with my deckīs performance.
But I encourage everyone to test that/those cards themselves, Iīm always open for other results.
Ive tested with Abrupt Decay and Deathrite Shaman but had to drastically change my mana base and drop the chrome moxes for more mana. If you want to give the green splash a try (I actually run 4 decay and 4 shaman now) give this mana base a try.Quote:
Originally Posted by Valech
4 Bayou
4 Scrubland
1 Savannah
1 swamp
1 plains
4 wastelands
4 verdant catacombs
4 mash flats
Having the 4 Decays in the main actually give you more of an edge against RUG and going with a little more than just a splash of green opens the door up to throw a Sylvan Library or 2 in the main , and a better selection of cards for the side. Ive had great success and unless gatecrash gives us some stronger W/B options then I think the green splash is needed to keep this deck more competitive in an increasingly dominate RUG Delver META
Quote:
Originally Posted by TPurcell
So, I do see the purpose of Abrupt Decay. But for what reason do you run Shamans? For Manaacceleration, damage/life or to hate graveyard-based decks?
Also, dropping both Moxens would again slower the deck (which sometimes formerly was reffered to as BW Tempo) to a point, where real quick, aggro-oriented Decks could easily feast on it. More than unsure bout that.
Last but not least, adding additional green cards like perhaps Library or Deed would give the Deck another playstyle. I donīt mean another playstyle like "I-dont-run-Hymns-anymore" but more like "This-aint-Deadguy-anymore".
As my build sits right now, it looks similar to more of a Team Italia build using green in place red but to be honest the current token builds of deadguy is essentially Team Italia without the red anyway so to say that I'm not staying true to the original idea of the deck could have been said to Rizzo who made the token style Deadguy a viable option on this form in the first place. Personally I think Rizzo actually made Deadguy viable and exciting again but to each their own.Quote:
Originally Posted by Valech
Here is a team Italia build
4 Dark Confidant
4 Grim Lavamancer
3 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Vindicate
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Ajani Vengeant
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Chrome Mox
1 Plains
1 Plateau
1 Swamp
3 Badlands
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Marsh Flats
4 Scrubland
4 Wasteland
here is a token Deadguy build
4x scrubland
4x marsh flats
2x polluted delta
1x flooded strand
4x wasteland
3x swamp
1x plains
1x godless shrine
1x karakas
//creatures (11)
4x dark confidant
4x stoneforge mystig
3x mother of runes
//other spells (28)
4x lingering souls
4x swords to plowshares
4x inquisition of kozilek
3x cabal therapy
2x zealous persecution
2x chrome mox
2x sensei's divining top
2x liliana of the veil
2x sorin, lord of inistrad
2x umezawa's jitte
1x batterskull
Now doest the token Deadguy list look similar to Team Iltlia without the splash of red? My Token Deadguy is similar to this Team Itilia build only changing Lavamancers for Deathrite shamans and vindicates with Decays. Ive made a few other changes to accommodate my playstyle but that is essentially the foundation.
To answer your 1st question, I really went into using Deathrite just to see how he would do, but he really is like the swiss army knife of the deck. He's not excellent at anything but he does so much very well that your opponent will not have him sit on your side of the table long. He's life gain, he's a clock in a long game, and he's a mana fixer (not mana acceleration). He's a good way to have a lavamancer/Ooze like effects in your deck and also a good way to draw removal out of your opponents hand so they are not using it on your Stoneforge or your BOB. The decision to drop Moxes was a hard one. To often I was trying to actually trick myself into thinking that this deck should be played out rather fast and having a first turn BOB, Stoneforge, or even dropping a Sorin a turn earlier was essential. However the more and more I played the deck I found myself looking at the card I used to imprint on Mox late in a game and said to myself "that ENTER CARD NAME HERE" would be pretty handy right now. The fact of the matter is that token deadguy plays a long game as often as a quick one, and to have some of your gas stuck behind a mox seems pretty pointless later in the game and you cant tell me that that added acceleration on turn one will be enough to tip the scales in your favour dramatically against any of the current tier one decks out there. Against rug a turn one BOB or Stoneforge just means his 1st play is a lightning bolt rather than a delver. Anyway thats my 2 cents. Call the deck Team Deadguy if you so choose hahaha
Quote:
Originally Posted by TPurcell
Heres a Team Italia list that came in 3rd at an SCG open that looks even closer to a token deadguy build
Artifacts
1 Batterskull
2 Sensei's Divining Top
Artifact Creatures
2 Tidehollow Sculler
Creatures
4 Dark Confidant
4 Grim Lavamancer
3 Stoneforge Mystic
Instants
4 Swords to Plowshares
Legendary Artifacts
1 Umezawa's Jitte
Planeswalkers
3 Liliana of the Veil
Sorceries
3 Hymn to Tourach
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Lingering Souls
3 Thoughtseize
3 Vindicate
Basic Lands
1 Plains
1 Swamp
Lands
4 Badlands
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Marsh Flats
1 Plateau
4 Scrubland
4 Wasteland
Team Deadguy perhaps? hahaha
Here's an interesting list from SCG:
Maindeck:
Artifacts
1 Batterskull
1 Chrome Mox
1 Sensei's Divining Top
Artifact Creatures
2 Tidehollow Sculler
Creatures
2 Aven Mindcensor
4 Dark Confidant
3 Deathrite Shaman
2 Hero of Bladehold
2 Mirran Crusader
2 Stoneforge Mystic
Enchantments
2 Oblivion Ring
Instants
4 Swords to Plowshares
Legendary Artifacts
2 Umezawa's Jitte
Planeswalkers
4 Liliana of the Veil
Sorceries
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Lingering Souls
3 Thoughtseize
Basic Lands
1 Plains
1 Swamp
Lands
2 Arid Mesa
1 Bayou
1 Godless Shrine
3 Isolated Chapel
4 Marsh Flats
4 Scrubland
2 Verdant Catacombs
Sideboard:
1 Pithing Needle
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Sword of War and Peace
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Gatekeeper of Malakir
1 Engineered Plague
1 Rest in Peace
1 Darkblast
1 Enlightened Tutor
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Perish
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=50521
A basic DGA build with the inclusion of Deathrite Shaman a full set of LotV and MD Oring (must be for the Show and Tell match up).
Yeah I saw that list from St.louis too.
So I tried 2 Hero of Bladehold today in a legacy tournament....went 3-1-1 in swiss to make top 8....and then promptly lose. lol. But Hero is the real deal. I used to try Obliterator but Hero won me games. In all of my 3 match wins, Hero of Bladehold won a game. A 1 turn clock in one instance since I already had Stoneforge Mystic and Dark Confidant on board (he was at 9 life).
Since my deck has a ton of removal, it's not out of the question to have Hero on an empty board or close to it. 7 damage and then 11 damage the next turn is pretty awesome.
The problem I had with Deadguy is that you can't really put them on a fast clock. Hero can do that.
I tested this list too, but i felt like it was a bit slow... It has no mana disruption in form of Wasteland, Thalia or Vindicate. Especially in a metagame, where 3-Color-Decks increase in popularity, mana denial is a really strong tool to win matches against bad matchups. You can clearly see on this list that it's creator loves random 1-offs. It may be personal preferance, but i think its better to concentrate on the important cards instead of throwing one exemplar of any card you like into the mix... I have to test Hero of Bladehold tho! This guy seems awesome in a creature-heavy build.
I didn't test the exact Starcity build. I still love my wastelands. lol. I also like Vindicate and couldn't cut that either.Quote:
Originally Posted by JanoschEausH
I just added 2 Heroes and a Deathrite Shaman to the deck. Shaman didn't do much. The highlight with Shaman is someone surgically extracted him. :D. I'm like sure, here's my hand and here's my library, that's the only one in the deck. The Heroes were awesome. A much faster clock and can be devastating as most Deadguy decks have other token generation....Bitterblossom, Lingering Souls, Elspeth, Or Sorin.
I am seriously considering Lingering Souls over Thalia, when i add Heroes of Bladehold. It will be weakening my combo matchup a lot, but in most cases a Thalia wont stop the comboman anyways. So im testing testing testing testing. And hoping for sweet stuff from Gatecrash :)
I dunno why you wouldn't play Bitterblossom right now. It's amazing against RUG and Miracles, which aren't going anywhere for a long time. I dunno why you'd play less than four SFM, either. I mean, Mirran Crusader? That's such a terrible trade.
This isn't the deck for Thalia. Most of the spells you play should be non-creature. They're just more powerful, and combo isn't bad with T1 and T2 discard. Thalia can stay on the sidelines.
I still go with Bitterblossom over Lingering Souls because Souls is more mana intensive. And as you say it's better vs Miracles.Quote:
Originally Posted by igri_is_a_bk
I don't like Thalia in this deck since we play so many noncreature spells. I used to play it in the board but i realize it ends up hurting me just as much. Also, whenever I faced Thalia, I found it really really annoying.
I run 3 Mystic. I don't go with four because we don't have Brainstorm to put a Batterskull back in the library....I really don't like situations where Mystic is just a squire. I guess I could run more equipment or run a Grunt (to recycle).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilkin
It really hurts me to say this, but I think LS is at the moment indeed more viable than BB. The huge disadvantage of BB is, that is has no direct impact on the game. The huge advantage of LS is, that they rarely will be countered. You are able to play around terminus and it has direct influence to the board. BB is a steady but slow threat, which, in the best case, grows. LS is an offensive threat and needs to be handled NOW.
@ Mystic: I play two Jittes and one Skull. Rarely have an obsolete Mystic in hand.
[QUOTE=Valech;685173]It really hurts me to say this, but I think LS is at the moment indeed more viable than BB. The huge disadvantage of BB is, that is has no direct impact on the game. The huge advantage of LS is, that they rarely will be countered. You are able to play around terminus and it has direct influence to the board. BB is a steady but slow threat, which, in the best case, grows. LS is an offensive threat and needs to be handled NOW.
@ Mystic: I play two Jittes and one Skull. Rarely have an obsolete Mystic in hand.[/
For sure, Souls is less likely to be countered and is something that needs to be dealt now. I find though that for my deck, it would add too many 3 drops cards in the deck. I already play Vindicates, Gatekeeper and Liliana. I find it hard in some games to reach 3 mana... I also used to play Hymn to Tourach but switched to single mana discard (mainly because of Misdirection) and found that to be really helpful in reducing the mana curve.
I notice some builds don't run Vindicate. I can understand not running a playset but having a catch all is too hard for me to pass up.
[QUOTE=Wilkin;685175]I currently do not run Vindicates as well. I clearly see your point, but I made the experience, that threats, which need to be dealt with immediatly and solely can be dealt with by Vindicate, are either very rare or they hit the field several times. Vindicating is too much like reacting to a threat then building up pressure. Cause, letīs be honest, no match-up will be won through only destroying their pieces. It will surely slower them. But the question is, if it would put them into more trouble if they had to face a threat themselves instead of facing the minor nuissance of finding that piece again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Valech
I furthermore dontīplay gatekeepers anymore. 3 Lilianas, 4 StoPs, a bunch of flying jittecarriers and protection through mother are enough to stand against aggro-oriented decks. two edicts and three perishs in sb seal it off.
Deadguy is so dense with good cards that counterspells are not a problem. I'm not weighing the strength of a card based on whether or not it will be countered. Bitterblossom would affect the board the same turn as Souls. And it's so good as stopping RUG's early beats since it makes fliers. If you can block their Delver each turn, it's like they never flipped him. It also stops Mongoose from attacking until they have Thresh. Against Miracles, it's awesome against Swords and survives to make more tokens after Terminus. And for the record, I'm not saying play BB instead of Souls. I play both because I only play eight creatures.
As for creatures, I don't see any making the cut besides Confidant and SFM. Why play Mom? There is such a low creature count here. And you really don't need to protect your guys. That slot should fill an aggressive role.
Deadguy is so dense with good cards that counterspells are not a problem. I'm not weighing the strength of a card based on whether or not it will be countered. Bitterblossom would affect the board the same turn as Souls. And it's so good at stopping RUG's early beats since it makes fliers. If you can block their Delver each turn, it's like they never flipped him. It also stops Mongoose from attacking until they have Thresh. Against Miracles, it's awesome against Swords and survives to make more tokens after Terminus. And for the record, I'm not saying play BB instead of Souls. I play both because I only play eight creatures.
As for creatures, I don't see any making the cut besides Confidant and SFM. Why play Mom? There is such a low creature count here. And you really don't need to protect your guys. That slot should fill an aggressive role.
Donīt know in what kind of meta you play, but my confidants or my mystics, after searching a batterskull, eat removal all the time. A little bit of protection really annoys my opponent. Which I like.Quote:
Originally Posted by igri_is_a_bk
Also, how does BB affect the board the same Turn as LS? BB: T1 Play it, T2 produce Token, T3 attack. LS: T1 Play it + 2 Tokens T2 attack, T3 play it perhaps again. So when you, at its best, attack with two creatures Turn 4 ill attack with four creatures Turn 4. Youīll catch even in Turn 6.
Additionally itīs very nice drop two creatures at once. Jace cant return two creatures in one turn. Liliana cant make me dacridice two in one turn. Scroll cant hit two at once. How often did I witness that my opponent somehow deals with my Faerie-tokens one after another while I had to deal with the lifeloss + a jitte, that waswaiting unused on my side of the board.
Again, I do not consider BB a weak card. I do like it more than LS in terms of Playstyle. It just fits me more. But currently it would be the card i board out in most situations.