[DTB] Team America (Aggro/Tempo Thread)

There are certainly other options for that slot and I guess it is a metagame call. I dislike TNN/Confidant because it makes our Golgari Charms worse, but both of those cards are certainly better vs. Jace.

And hell yeah, this is such a dominant performance by the Team. I've known it's been the best deck for a while and have been championing it, so it's cool to see it be so dominant. Still, I would rather have TNN banned and perhaps a resurgence in something like EsperBlade, which TA has a lot harder time with.

I've been reading the BRUG forums. They are now using a new tech with bitterblossom against miracles.

Seems pretty good to beat the now resurgence miracle decks.

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Originally Posted by KobeBryan

I've been reading the BRUG forums. They are now using a new tech with bitterblossom against miracles.

Seems pretty good to beat the now resurgence miracle decks.

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Could you link us to the conversation?

Has anyone tested Jace in the SB? Seems to be a great option (besides tarpit) against Jace itself... fight fire with fire maybe?

Hey Guys,
so GP Paris is over and I wanted to share my experiences with you.

On Friday I played 2 Last Chance Trials (32 people)

Standard List with 2 Stalker, 2 Lili, 4 Hymn, 4 FoW, 4 Daze...

Trial 1:
I played against my buddy (Lol) with Sneak Show! We played the last days at home against each other and it stood 8:1 in my favor :wink: BUT I had bad karma and lost 1:2 against a T2 Blood Moon (with DS out) but was not able to draw my 2 Grip or my 2 Needle for his later Sneak Attack (he had only Mountain too :laugh:) Pierce was not enough. ..

Trial 2:
I came to late (after searching that fucking trial 10 minutes in the hall) and got a gameloss :mad:
In our "G2" (Elves) I crushed him with double Lili, AD, DS & Delver. In "G3" I took a mulligan to 6 and drew no Charm but 1st turn Cage & a bit of counter Backup BUT he was able to resolve Visionary + Titania (Whaat), Cradle & Insect & Hardcasted Behemoth with 20+ damage in turn 3/4!

So after those bad Games I talked to Jens Wilkens from the "Magickeller Hannover" who piloted the FoWless TA to 1st place on a 60 man turney & went in 20th place in Paris this weekend.
We discussed a lot and I saw really many fair decks around (DnT, Patriot, TA, Deathblade etc) so I decided to play a quite similar list on Saturday like he did.


FoWless Team America

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Tombstalker
3 Hymn
3 Thoughtseize
3 Daze
3 Spell Pierce
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Abrupt Decay
1 Liliana
1 Dismember

4 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
4 Verdant Catcacombs
3 Polluted Delta
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Wasteland

Sideboard:
3 Golgari Charm
2 Krosan Grip
2 Pithing Needle
2 Envelop
2 Grafdiggers Cage
1 Liliana
1 Dismember
1 Hymn
1 Vendilion Qlique

So Day 1 I played the following games:

Round 1: Sneak Show

Here I got cheated in the 1st game and lost the 2nd with a mulligan to 6 and 1 Pierce was not enough for his 2nd turn Show & Tell with FoW Backup.

0:2 Loss

Round 2: Reanimator

I lost game one after a mulligan to 5 and he resolved turn 3 Griselbrand (me having 2 Delver & Shaman & 2 lands in play).
My one Dismember would have been my 2nd MD Lili normally and he won that game. Very close even with the mulligan to 5!
Game 2 I crushed him hard with cage, counter, discard + pressure.
Game 3 he was on the play and me keeping my following 7 (DS, Fetch, Cage, Pierce, Envelop, Thoughtseize, Brainstorm :eek:)
Cant lose with that hand right! He showed me the opposite! Turn 1 Sea, Petal, Entomb on Iona, Reanimate Iona on Black :eek: Loool! I could do nothing because I was on the draw and had no FoW in my deck. Iona on black shuts of my lili so I scooped.
By the way, the pierce would have been the FoW in my normal list :rolleyes:
I asked him if he had a counter in hand and said no...Great!

1:2 Loss

Round 3: Sneak Show (Again!)

Game 1 I resolved an early Shaman & Delver and I wasted him & played AD on his petal to screw him on 1 mana source and we had a crazy counter war because he misdirected my decay on my Delver, Daze & Pierce from my side were not enough!
So my delver died and at the end he resolved a ST into Emrakul on low life with 2 card in hand and me having deadly damage on board (if emmy were not there) so I have to draw Lili now, I draw and it was DISMEMBER Fuck, my 1:1 split punished me hard here:rolleyes:

Game 2 I killed him with pressure, discard & counter.

Game 3: I took a mulligan to 5 and was mentally out of the game, but I had a very good start and Discard + Lili to take all of his handcards & he had no combo in hand, the he resolved Sneak Attack but had no creature and I used the Lili ulti to take all his lands or his sneak and he died 1 turn later to my goyf.

2:1 Win

Round 4: Junk

Here I won 2:1 against a nice french/Chinese girl :tongue:

2:1 Win

Round 5: RUG Delver

Game 1 I faced 2 Wasteland + 1 Stifle and just died.
Game 2 I crushed him with Dismember, Liliana, double Goyf etc. .
Game 3 I took a mulligan to 6 and kept a greedy hand with 1 land & 2 Shaman on the draw, so 2 turns to draw a second land. But my Shaman got bolted and my Dual got wasted and I never draw another land :mad:

1:2 loss

So a very unlucky & bad list decision 2:3 Drop.

Fazit: Instead of facing more fair decks (which was the reason for the FoWless list) I played the first 3 rounds against combo which I lost to 2 of them. The normal standard list with 4 FoW & and 2 Liliana would have been much better for me but nobody could know that.

Funny note: Jens Wilkens went 12:3 with a very similar list in 20th place and I asked him against how much combo decks he was facing, he said 1 :laugh:

The Combo MU with 4 pierce, 4 Hymn, 3 TS & 3 Daze after boarding is not bad but in some games you just really need the FoW (especially Otd).
And if the Combo man has a T2 go off hand with FoW backup you just need the god hand otherwise you just die and I was the unlucky man not having it, thats life.

All in all the deck felt quite good especially because all loses were a 1:2 and very close or I just died to a god hand which would have been different with a FoW version.
I will definitly playing a FoW list after this experiences but the Hymns felt reallly really clunky against combo & RUG. They really shined only against Junk. Dismember was good in the fair MU, killed 2 times a Goyf with it.
Clique was a really nice SB card against all sorts of decks because flash is just super good!

Rotten luck my friend. Sometimes you just draw the not so good matchups. I don't think fow is really ever worth cutting. There are just too many random oops I win decks in legacy.

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Originally Posted by Thorhammer

Rotten luck my friend. Sometimes you just draw the not so good matchups. I don't think fow is really ever worth cutting. There are just too many random oops I win decks in legacy.

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Afterwards it was a mistake but Jens Wilkens for example played against the whole fair decks all day and went 12:3, so bad karma I think...Pierce & TS were by the way really good, in combination with FoW it would have been perfect, so I will test that configuration more...

In case you haven't visited the Tournament Reports forum, check out my report titled GP Paris: 55th of 1586

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Originally Posted by balthasar

In case you haven't visited the Tournament Reports forum, check out my report titled GP Paris: 55th of 1586

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Nice report and congratz on your great finish.

Personally, I refuse to play legacy without FOW. I just can't stomach the thought of being completely defenseless to some of the T1/T2 Combo kills.

So currently I have in my sideboard:

3 disfigure
3 spell pierce


I am debating about changing it to

2 disfigure
2 spell pierce
1 dismember
1 evelop/swan song/flusterstorm


Is there any merit to doing this? Dismember is virtually the same as disfigure in this deck with the added bonus of being able to straight up kill a golf on sight. With Miracles doing so well I thought envelop or swan song could be good at countering terminus and entreat. I really don't like that 2/2 bird though.

Dismember certainly isn't the same as disfigure when you're playing against a lightning bolt deck

I've been liking Dismember myself, although I can see where Disfigure is better. I enjoy being able to kill opposing Tarmogoyfs and especially opposing Tombstalkers (in the mirror). Being able to kill a Craterhoof (with the trigger on the stack) is a nice side benefit as well.

The life loss does suck against the Burn/RUG/Patriot matchups though (although not as bad in Patriot, in my experience since they don't have as fast a clock as RUG does).

Also, it just personally makes me angry to play Disfigure in Legacy :)

I love Disfigure, I'd play 5 if I had the room, but right now 3, with a Dismember MD.

I'm playing Submerge instead of the Dismember, I feel the loss of life is significant and almost everywhere I can use dismember, I can Submerge. Not sure which is better, I just like the tempo gain with Submerge.

I said here a lot of times that for me TNN > Stalker by far and a lot of people laugh about it. Now, Jose Manuel Fernandez made a top 8 with my list, and I hope that these will be the same result-oriented like when the other GP ends.

I wrote a primer with the 75 cards before the GP in a spanish web, maybe with google translator can understand why TNN is better, also Dismember > Disfigure

http://noticias.magicevolution.com/2...ers-im-fowler/

GP Paris was dominated by TA, and Miracles made a good result because TA was the most played deck. Another spanish player made top 8 with TA (with Tombstalkers) but got a DQ after last round.

I dont know if Dark Confidant is the way, but with bobs you can take edge in the mirror, and Javier didnt test a lot for the tournament, but he plays very well and are one of the strongers players in Spain. Anyway, Bob is a best option then Stalker too imo. I dont like Liliana in BUG, but Bob works in this reason to play the planeswalker (in the decklist of Javier, maybe is better cut both thoughtseize for add the fourth Hymn and the third Bob, but i dont test it yet)

Sorry about my english :P

Has anyone tried Javier Dominguez's list in any tournaments yet? I'm curious to see how they feel about the Bob's instead of Tombstalkers. Also, the Ponder, Hymn, and FoW cuts for the extra Lilianas and Thoughtseize. Personally I think it was a meta call to battle Deathblade TNN decks and Miracles but It seems really strong against all decks, post board you have 1 more card against combo; 4 Daze, 4 FoW, 4 Hymn, 2 Thoughtseize, 2 Spell Pierce, 1 V. Clique (17) vs. Traditional; 4 Daze, 4 FoW, 4 Hymn, 3 Spell Pierce, 1 V. Clique (16). Further more Bob seems like such great gas early on against fair decks and also can bring you back into games when you have used up all your resources. Tombstalker is obviously a great card and maybe it's just because I have nostalgia for Bob but it seems much higher impact of a card. Tombstalker needs to be answered by your opponents but Bob NEEDS to be answered by your opponents. I could be completely wrong but the list did take out 1300 people. Thoughts?

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Originally Posted by Darkness

Has anyone tried Javier Dominguez's list in any tournaments yet? I'm curious to see how they feel about the Bob's instead of Tombstalkers. Also, the Ponder, Hymn, and FoW cuts for the extra Lilianas and Thoughtseize. Personally I think it was a meta call to battle Deathblade TNN decks and Miracles but It seems really strong against all decks, post board you have 1 more card against combo; 4 Daze, 4 FoW, 4 Hymn, 2 Thoughtseize, 2 Spell Pierce, 1 V. Clique (17) vs. Traditional; 4 Daze, 4 FoW, 4 Hymn, 3 Spell Pierce, 1 V. Clique (16). Further more Bob seems like such great gas early on against fair decks and also can bring you back into games when you have used up all your resources. Tombstalker is obviously a great card and maybe it's just because I have nostalgia for Bob but it seems much higher impact of a card. Tombstalker needs to be answered by your opponents but Bob NEEDS to be answered by your opponents. I could be completely wrong but the list did take out 1300 people. Thoughts?

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I am also very interested in people's thoughts on this. I've got a local weekly tournament in a few days, and will likely try out the list that won GP Paris.

I need some help here gentlemen!

I've been playing this deck for a little while, and it's very powerful, and it's my favorite legacy deck I have played thus far. Anyway, I play the stock list -1 Abrupt Decay, and then in that spot, plus the 2 "flex" spots, I play 2 liliana, 1 sylvan library.

It has been pretty good for me so far, and I just want opinions on if you guys think the 4th decay is necessary? Because sometimes I feel like I want to add it in, but I LOVE playing 2 lily, and the silvan, and I just don't see cuts anywhere else. It just seems like the 4th decay is strong right now, especially with miracles making a big comeback(at least in my meta)

And this is my sideboard, I'd like some opinions!

3 Disfigure (love this card)
2 Golgari Charm (self explanatory)
2 Grafdigger's Cage (was initially only playing 1, want the second for dredge)
2 Spell Pierce (self explanatory)
2 Thoughtseize (I think bringing these In against combo helps a lot along with hymn, also good against SFM)
1 Vendilion Clique (self explanatory)
1 Krosan Grip (playing this over maelstrom pulse)
1 Life from the Loam (trying this out in place of a surgical extraction)
1 Creeping Tar Pit (has been very good against killing jace, good against miracles...etc)


Look forward to everyone's opinions. I hope to play this at SCG La next month, and I want to be really prepared for that event.

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Originally Posted by Kowitz

I need some help here gentlemen!

I've been playing this deck for a little while, and it's very powerful, and it's my favorite legacy deck I have played thus far. Anyway, I play the stock list -1 Abrupt Decay, and then in that spot, plus the 2 "flex" spots, I play 2 liliana, 1 sylvan library.

It has been pretty good for me so far, and I just want opinions on if you guys think the 4th decay is necessary? Because sometimes I feel like I want to add it in, but I LOVE playing 2 lily, and the silvan, and I just don't see cuts anywhere else. It just seems like the 4th decay is strong right now, especially with miracles making a big comeback(at least in my meta)

And this is my sideboard, I'd like some opinions!

3 Disfigure (love this card)
2 Golgari Charm (self explanatory)
2 Grafdigger's Cage (was initially only playing 1, want the second for dredge)
2 Spell Pierce (self explanatory)
2 Thoughtseize (I think bringing these In against combo helps a lot along with hymn, also good against SFM)
1 Vendilion Clique (self explanatory)
1 Krosan Grip (playing this over maelstrom pulse)
1 Life from the Loam (trying this out in place of a surgical extraction)
1 Creeping Tar Pit (has been very good against killing jace, good against miracles...etc)


Look forward to everyone's opinions. I hope to play this at SCG La next month, and I want to be really prepared for that event.

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Definitely like running loam in the board. Great against the greedy decks or anyone else attacking your land base. Thoughtseize, I haven't seen a lot (besides GP Paris results). (I've got a few flex spots in my SB so I might "borrow" some ideas). I currently run 0 seize in my board and 2 cliques, which are slower but present decks that are trying to combo off with an annoying threat.

As for AD, I really think it's necessary as a 4 of. It's our best removal spell, and just hits so many relevant targets, especially in game 1. As for what to pull out? Maybe see if you can't stick the second Liliana in the board. To be honest it's hard to make a call like that without knowing your meta and the rest of your list, though I'm sure it's quite comparable to stock lists.

I'm only a year in to the Legacy scene though, so take my advice with a grain of salt. Good luck at SCG LA =)

Hello!!! Im Jose Manuel Fernandez Castello AKA "Kiwi" , I did top 8 in the gp with the team america with Nemesis.

True Name Nemesis is a new angle of attack vs a lot of decks...

This is a list of my pairings in the gp

round 1 bye
round 2 bye
round 3 belcher lost 0-2
round 4 MUD win 2-1
Round 5 show and tell win 2-1
Round 6 OmniShow win 2-0
Round 7 Storm win 2-1
Round 8 dredge win 2-1
Round 9 Team america with tombstalkers and lilianas win 2-1
Round 10 Merfolks Lost 1-2
Round 11 Shardless Bug win 2-0
Round 12 Elves win 2-1
Round 13 Patriot win 2-1
Round 14 Deathblade win 2-0
Round 15 Rug with nemesis win 2-1

Top 8 Lost vs team America 1-2.

In the tournament I played in each round vs a different deck and the deck was very very resilent.

Here you can find a report of my adventure in gp in paris but in Spanish
http://noticias.magicevolution.com/2...prix-de-paris/