4 Card Blind

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tylert

Seguei will allways play wheel and deal at your EOT (it's an instant). So if you play the counter war, he will end up with 2 guiles in the graveyard at the beginning of his turn and will be able to cast it first and win.
If you try to guile first, Serguei answers with wheel and deal that you have to counter and he can mindbreak trap your guile for the win.
more 0-6 I think.

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Does that work here?

If he plays Wheel and Deal (discard Guile) at EOT, Wrath responds with the Guile trigger on the stack playing Spelljack (discarding Guile), threatening to steal the Wheel and cast it back on top of the stack. Serguei must respond to the stack with Mindbreak Trap (discard other Guile), then Wrath responds with that Guile trigger on the stack with Time Stop (discarding last Guile) Ending the Turn. All spells are countered and 3/4 Guiles don't get reshuffled for the draw.

DD 2-2?

End the Turn is tech against shenanigans

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FTW

End the Turn is tech against shenanigans

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Yes, end the turn was a really great tech. Its combination with dualcaster too.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dte

Actually tabby + shivan gorge + dust bowl + mercadian bazaar was my other deck, and would have done great.
My plan was crea + 2 counters, or no spell.

But I was scared of wheel and deal, and of combo decks that kill T1 / without attacking.

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Emrakul would have helped against Wheel and Deal, and I would have just accepted losing to T1 combo because counterspells were likely going to be everywhere.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wrath of Pie

Emrakul would have helped against Wheel and Deal, and I would have just accepted losing to T1 combo because counterspells were likely going to be everywhere.

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Yes, it would have been smarter. And fun to win T80 on the dream halls round just after the Canadian round :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FTW

Does that work here?

If he plays Wheel and Deal (discard Guile) at EOT, Wrath responds with the Guile trigger on the stack playing Spelljack (discarding Guile), threatening to steal the Wheel and cast it back on top of the stack. Serguei must respond to the stack with Mindbreak Trap (discard other Guile), then Wrath responds with that Guile trigger on the stack with Time Stop (discarding last Guile) Ending the Turn. All spells are countered and 3/4 Guiles don't get reshuffled for the draw.

DD 2-2?

End the Turn is tech against shenanigans

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Yeah so for any match up where the opponent doesn't play a "End the turn effect" my analysis works. For all others it doesn't and it leads to DD.

GoblinSmashmaster Results for Round "Guiles for a while"


1. Asthereal (TO): Guile, Spelljack, Draining Whelk, Chromium, the Mutable
2 many counters :( 0-6

2. dte: Chancellor of the forge, Counterflux, Torrential gearhulk, Aethersnatch
Goblin smash :( 0-6

3. jhhdk: Aluren, Casualties of War, Cavern Harpy, Parasitic Strix
Arbiter smash! 6-0

4. Wrath of Pie: Time Stop, Spelljack, Guile, Guile
Arbiter stopped 1-4

5. alphastryk: Mindbreak Trap, Commandeer, Guile, Guile
2 many counters :( 0-6

6. Tylert: Aethersnatch, Aethersnatch, Counterflux, The Ur-Dragon
2 many counters :( 0-6

7. Serguei: Guile, Guile, Wheel and Deal, Mindbreak Trap
No deal 0-6

8. Reeplcheep: Savage Summoning, Dragonlord Dromoka, Grand Arbiter Augustin IV , Mindbreak Trap
Your Arbiter is savage 4-1

9. GoblinSmashmaster: Grand Arbiter Augustin IV, Miraculous Recovery, Spelljack, Mindbreak Trap
That's me making an unmiraculous deck :(

10. FTW: Chancellor of the Forge, Dualcaster Mage, Discontinuity, Spelljack
Goblin smash :( 0-6

11. H: Guile, Guile, Nexus of Fate, Last Word
Arbiter has the last word 3-3

12. maxx!: Slaughter Games, Counterflux, Surrak Dragonclaw, Sandstorm Eidolon
Arbiter slaughtered by Dragon :( 0-6

13. silkster: Counterflux, Aethersnatch, Take Possession, Chancellor of the Forge
Goblin smash :( 0-6


Total: 14 points

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GoblinSmashmaster

GoblinSmashmaster Results for Round "Guiles for a while"

7. Serguei: Guile, Guile, Wheel and Deal, Mindbreak Trap
Miraculous Arbiter cuts a deal 6-0

9. GoblinSmashmaster: Grand Arbiter Augustin IV, Miraculous Recovery, Spelljack, Mindbreak Trap
That's me forgetting to smash with Goblins

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Are you assuming that you can use Grand Arbiter Augustin IV to pay for Miraculous Recovery targetting Augustin, making a 3/4 Arbiter at instant speed on turn 0 or in response to the stack, while holding up Mindbreak Trap/Spelljack as protection??

That would be amazing. Except Dream Halls doesn't work like that. You have to declare targets for Miraculous Recovery before paying the costs (discarding Augustin). So Miraculous Recovery actually does nothing in your deck. It's a dead card. Being white means you can't even pitch it to double counter, so it's basically worse than Squire and can only be used to cast Arbiter at sorcery speed.

It would have been a lot better as Guile.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FTW

Are you assuming that you can use Grand Arbiter Augustin IV to pay for Miraculous Recovery targetting Augustin, making a 3/4 Arbiter at instant speed on turn 0 or in response to the stack, while holding up Mindbreak Trap/Spelljack as protection??

That would be amazing. Except Dream Halls doesn't work like that. You have to declare targets for Miraculous Recovery before paying the costs (discarding Augustin). So Miraculous Recovery actually does nothing in your deck. It's a dead card. Being white means you can't even pitch it to double counter, so it's basically worse than Squire and can only be used to cast Arbiter at sorcery speed.

It would have been a lot better as Guile.

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Yeah. You have to target when you put your spell in the pile, but you pay costs right after it so it doesn't work.

Serguei: Guile, Guile, Wheel and Deal, Mindbreak Trap



1. Asthereal (TO): Guile, Spelljack, Draining Whelk, Chromium, the Mutable
For me it is a draw.
If you try to cast something, I am answering by wheel and deal to force you your last spell out. If you let it it resolves you have no more cards and I can Mindbreak trap you first spell. If you try to resolves a second spell, I just mind break the 2 spells and Guile will finish you. So it is not the line.

If I try to cast wheel and deal, you will just Spell jack it. and either finish me with chomium or draining whelk.
DD 2 points

2. dte: Chancellor of the forge, Counterflux, Torrential gearhulk, Aethersnatch

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dte

7. Serguei: Guile, Guile, Wheel and Deal, Mindbreak Trap
6-0, see WoP.
32

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I am sorry but I do not see the same here.
At the end of your first turn, I will be at 19 because you will have smash me for 1 with the gobs. I will play wheel and deal discarding guile. You will try to counter it with whatever you want or even try to steal it. I will answer answer with mindbreak trap and you will answer with gearhulk copying a counterspell to empty the stack and counter everything.
Next turn I will draw my first guile.
At your turn you smash me for 6, I am going to 13.
Next turn I am drawing my second guile and I can cast it. so I will have a 6/6 and you a 1/1 and a 5/6. At your turn you cannot attack me, otherwise I will block gearhulk then smashing you to death with guile.
Then I cannot attack you because you will need 3 turns to kill me whereas I would need 4 turns to kill you.

DD -2 points

3. jhhdk: Aluren, Casualties of War, Cavern Harpy, Parasitic Strix

You will never able to cast anything I will empty your hand at the very first upkeep and win with guile WW 6pts


4. Wrath of Pie: Time Stop, Spelljack, Guile, Guile

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wrath of Pie

7. Serguei: Guile, Guile, Wheel and Deal, Mindbreak Trap DD - Time Stop does things!

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DD -2 pts

5. alphastryk: Mindbreak Trap, Commandeer, Guile, Guile

Quote:

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Originally Posted by alphastryk

7. Serguei: Guile, Guile, Wheel and Deal, Mindbreak Trap
EDIT: Thanks to Tylert for figuring it out. You will allways play wheel and deal at my EOT. So if I play the counter war, you will end up with 2 Guiles in the graveyard at the beginning of his turn and will be able to cast it first and win.
If I try to Guile first, you answers with Wheel and Deal that you have to counter while I can, and you can Mindbreak Trap my Guile for the win. LL
0-6

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WW 6 pts

6. Tylert: Aethersnatch, Aethersnatch, Counterflux, The Ur-Dragon

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tylert

7. Serguei: You can allways play wheel and deal as the first spell and win from there because you'll get a guile in the end. 0-6 --> 12

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WW 6pts

8. Reeplcheep: Savage Summoning, Dragonlord Dromoka, Grand Arbiter Augustin IV , Mindbreak Trap

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Reeplcheep

7. Serguei: Guile, Guile, Wheel and Deal, Mindbreak Trap
OTP you can’t beat arbiter into dramoka. OTD I can only cast 1 spell on your turn, so no matter what you wheel, MBT my first spell, then win with guile beats.WL 3-3

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Sadly for you there is no difference for me to be OTD or OTP I can always play wheel and deal at first upkeep removing you the chance to cast a single creature
WW 6-0

9. GoblinSmashmaster: Grand Arbiter Augustin IV, Miraculous Recovery, Spelljack, Mindbreak Trap

Miraculous recovery on grand arbiter does not work sadly for you.
So at the very first upkeep I will epmty your hand, and finish to draw 2 guile to be able to cast one and finishing you.

WW - 6pts


10. FTW: Chancellor of the Forge, Dualcaster Mage, Discontinuity, Spelljack

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FTW

7. Serguei: If you try to Wheel and Deal me, I Dualcast it back at you with the Guile trigger on the stack. If you either counter my Wheel or let it resolve, I End the Turn countering yours and your Guile triggers. Otherwise this is like Wrath and alphastryk. WW 6-0

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LL 0pts
11. H: Guile, Guile, Nexus of Fate, Last Word
when you are starting, You cannot cast a guile, otherwise I will force you out your last spell by casting wheel and deal (discarding guile) if you let it resolves you will finish with a nexus in hand a guile in graveyard with its shuffiling ability on the stack and another guile on the stack. I will be able to mind break trap the guile on the stack. we resolve the wheel and I draw a guile. At my next turn I draw my second guile and cast it and it will finish you.
If you try to answer with a nexus I will mindbreak your two spells so that is not the line.

So at the end of your turn, I will play a wheel and deal (discard Guile) If you answer with Nexus discarding guile, I am letting it resolves shuffling your guile and nexus. You will discard your two last cards and you will draw the guile and nexus, and from here you will not be able ever to cast a guile otherwise it will be mindbreaktrapped. and I will resolve first a guile.

If I am starting the game I pass the turn, and e are going back in the first situation

WW 6-0

12. maxx!: Slaughter Games, Counterflux, Surrak Dragonclaw, Sandstorm Eidolon

If you are playing a spell, I am answering with wheel and deal, you will have to counter it, Then I will mindbreak trap your 2 spells. Then I will draw 2 guile to be able to cast one and finishing you.

At your first upkeep, I Will cast wheel and deal, you cast surrak I let it resolves. You will try counterflux and I will trap the counterflux. You willl have no hand and we will resolve the wheel I will draw my first guile. At my turn I will draw my second guile and I will cast one. Then from here I willl win as you have no more cards in hand a Surrak against a guile. if you block I will be able to replay it and you will not. And if you attack I will definitively block.

WW 6 pts


13. silkster: Counterflux, Aethersnatch, Take Possession, Chancellor of the Forge
at first upkeep, I will cast a wheel and deal forcing you to counter it. I will answer by mindbreak. You will have to answer it or let it resolves letting you with no cards in hand and with only a 1/1. I will redraw 2 guile and be able to recast one to win the race

WW 6 pts




54 points

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FTW

Are you assuming that you can use Grand Arbiter Augustin IV to pay for Miraculous Recovery targetting Augustin, making a 3/4 Arbiter at instant speed on turn 0 or in response to the stack, while holding up Mindbreak Trap/Spelljack as protection??

That would be amazing. Except Dream Halls doesn't work like that. You have to declare targets for Miraculous Recovery before paying the costs (discarding Augustin). So Miraculous Recovery actually does nothing in your deck. It's a dead card. Being white means you can't even pitch it to double counter, so it's basically worse than Squire and can only be used to cast Arbiter at sorcery speed.

It would have been a lot better as Guile.

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Hilariously enough, this led me away from considering Cavern of Souls, because it isn't even compatible with the Dream Halls effect (except against Arbiter, ironically), and even if it were, end the turn effects were too good.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Serguei

2. dte: Chancellor of the forge, Counterflux, Torrential gearhulk, Aethersnatch

I am sorry but I do not see the same here.
At the end of your first turn, I will be at 19 because you will have smash me for 1 with the gobs. I will play wheel and deal discarding guile. You will try to counter it with whatever you want or even try to steal it. I will answer answer with mindbreak trap and you will answer with gearhulk copying a counterspell to empty the stack and counter everything.
Next turn I will draw my first guile.
At your turn you smash me for 6, I am going to 13.
Next turn I am drawing my second guile and I can cast it. so I will have a 6/6 and you a 1/1 and a 5/6. At your turn you cannot attack me, otherwise I will block gearhulk then smashing you to death with guile.
Then I cannot attack you because you will need 3 turns to kill me whereas I would need 4 turns to kill you.

DD -2 points

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Indeed, mindbreak trap does not care that counterflux is uncounterable. 2-2.

I think you'll also draw vs FTW:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Serguei

Serguei: Guile, Guile, Wheel and Deal, Mindbreak Trap

10. FTW: Chancellor of the Forge, Dualcaster Mage, Discontinuity, Spelljack


LL -0pt

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Both of you agree here, but what happens if you just cast guiles, discarding Wheel and trap?
Guile, discarding wheel --> discontinuity, discarding spell jack.
chancellor, 3 gobs attack.
guile, discarding trap: staring contest.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dte

Indeed, mindbreak trap does not care that counterflux is uncounterable. 2-2.

I think you'll also draw vs FTW:



Both of you agree here, but what happens if you just cast guiles, discarding Wheel and trap?
Guile, discarding wheel --> discontinuity, discarding spell jack.
chancellor, 3 gobs attack.
guile, discarding trap: staring contest.

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You have right I dit not see this line. It leader to a draw

Bringing a pillow to gun fight.
1. Asthereal (TO): Guile, Spelljack, Draining Whelk, Chromium, the Mutable LL
2. dte: Chancellor of the forge, Counterflux, Torrential gearhulk, Aethersnatch LL
3. jhhdk: Aluren, Casualties of War, Cavern Harpy, Parasitic Strix <--- Me
4. Wrath of Pie: Time Stop, Spelljack, Guile, Guile LL
5. alphastryk: Mindbreak Trap, Commandeer, Guile, Guile LL
6. Tylert: Aethersnatch, Aethersnatch, Counterflux, The Ur-Dragon LL
7. Serguei: Guile, Guile, Wheel and Deal, Mindbreak Trap LL
8. Reeplcheep: Savage Summoning, Dragonlord Dromoka, Grand Arbiter Augustin IV , Mindbreak Trap LL
9. GoblinSmashmaster: Grand Arbiter Augustin IV, Miraculous Recovery, Spelljack, Mindbreak Trap LL
10. FTW: Chancellor of the Forge, Dualcaster Mage, Discontinuity, Spelljack LL
11. H: Guile, Guile, Nexus of Fate, Last Word LL
12. maxx!: Slaughter Games, Counterflux, Surrak Dragonclaw, Sandstorm Eidolon LL
13. silkster: Counterflux, Aethersnatch, Take Possession, Chancellor of the Forge LL

I dare say i expect to do better next round.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Serguei

You have right I dit not see this line. It leader to a draw

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Actually I was wrong, sorry: FTW will spell jack your guile, and then you lose as guiles are basically unblock able.

Edit: Nevermind you already caught this. Yeah, it's the same line I use against the other 2xGuile decks.
The only thing different here is he could also try to Wheel me, but I can beat that with Dualcaster.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dte

I think you'll also draw vs FTW:

Both of you agree here, but what happens if you just cast guiles, discarding Wheel and trap?
Guile, discarding wheel --> discontinuity, discarding spell jack.
chancellor, 3 gobs attack.
guile, discarding trap: staring contest.

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I only use Discontinuity if he pays for Guile by discarding Guile, to get rid of both at once. Otherwise I steal his Guile.

Guile, discarding wheel -> Spelljack the Guile, discarding Discontinuity
If he Mindbreaks, I Dualcast copying Mindbreak and exile his counter. I end up with a 6/6 + 2/2 + 1/1 vs his empty board, so this backfires.
If he lets Spelljack through and tries to cast a 2nd Guile, then I cast both his Guile and my Chancellor -> +3 gobs

Then Guile + Chancellor + 4 goblins > Guile.
2 goblins + Chancellor can even gangblock Guile, so this is an easy race.

WW for me?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jhhdk

Bringing a pillow to gun fight.
1. Asthereal (TO): Guile, Spelljack, Draining Whelk, Chromium, the Mutable LL
2. dte: Chancellor of the forge, Counterflux, Torrential gearhulk, Aethersnatch LL
3. jhhdk: Aluren, Casualties of War, Cavern Harpy, Parasitic Strix <--- Me
4. Wrath of Pie: Time Stop, Spelljack, Guile, Guile LL
5. alphastryk: Mindbreak Trap, Commandeer, Guile, Guile LL
6. Tylert: Aethersnatch, Aethersnatch, Counterflux, The Ur-Dragon LL
7. Serguei: Guile, Guile, Wheel and Deal, Mindbreak Trap LL
8. Reeplcheep: Savage Summoning, Dragonlord Dromoka, Grand Arbiter Augustin IV , Mindbreak Trap LL
9. GoblinSmashmaster: Grand Arbiter Augustin IV, Miraculous Recovery, Spelljack, Mindbreak Trap LL
10. FTW: Chancellor of the Forge, Dualcaster Mage, Discontinuity, Spelljack LL
11. H: Guile, Guile, Nexus of Fate, Last Word LL
12. maxx!: Slaughter Games, Counterflux, Surrak Dragonclaw, Sandstorm Eidolon LL
13. silkster: Counterflux, Aethersnatch, Take Possession, Chancellor of the Forge LL

I dare say i expect to do better next round.

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The clean sweep, unfortunately a round too late.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FTW

Edit: Nevermind you already caught this. Yeah, it's the same line I use against the other 2xGuile decks.
The only thing different here is he could also try to Wheel me, but I can beat that with Dualcaster.



I only use Discontinuity if he pays for Guile by discarding Guile, to get rid of both at once. Otherwise I steal his Guile.

Guile, discarding wheel -> Spelljack the Guile, discarding Discontinuity
If he Mindbreaks, I Dualcast copying Mindbreak and exile his counter. I end up with a 6/6 + 2/2 + 1/1 vs his empty board, so this backfires.
If he lets Spelljack through and tries to cast a 2nd Guile, then I cast both his Guile and my Chancellor -> +3 gobs

Then Guile + Chancellor + 4 goblins > Guile.
2 goblins + Chancellor can even gangblock Guile, so this is an easy race.

WW for me?

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Yes

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Serguei

8. Reeplcheep: Savage Summoning, Dragonlord Dromoka, Grand Arbiter Augustin IV , Mindbreak Trap

Sadly for you there is no difference for me to be OTD or OTP I can always play wheel and deal at first upkeep removing you the chance to cast a single creature
WW 6-0

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Yes my mistake.

After seeing this metagame full of control and counter this list would have been devastating

Mishra's Factory
The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Dark Depths

What a shame not to play a single spell under dream halls :)

Thespian's Stage
Dark Depths
Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale

Would've been pretty cool too, the factories are a bit slow on their own.