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Well, Maverick vs Death and Taxes is one of my favorites. Between their flyers, your fatties, their revokers, your pridemages, their flickerwhisps, and your sweepers--the matchup is super even and super interactive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Megadeus
But I had also assumed that he was asking for a deck that is super different from his current list. Usually the "____ vs ____" deck boxes have a theme about them about two opposite philosophies or colors fighting each other.
As far as "Evil" fair decks. THere's Shardless Leovold.Quote:
Originally Posted by TMagpie
You are right, but any and all suggestions are welcome. Game play is my primary interest so your perspective on D&T is relevant. The other factors, along with factors like cost and what cards I have sitting around, will help decide between decks that meet the game play requirement.Quote:
Originally Posted by TMagpie
I very much appreciate the input so far. Y'all are an accommodating bunch.
My problem with the DnT matchup is it can quickly devolve into "who gets Jitte + Mom out first". The game is quickly over after that.
Goblins has a lot of tools to deal with a Jitte (last I checked) so that might be a good direction.
I guess it depends how you define what a "good" matchup is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Claymore
For example, with DnT vs Mav, *because* the game circles around who gets Jitte/Mom first; there is an assumed trajectory that both players will be following from which you can use as the baseline when reading their lines of play. And as you circumvent the predicted lines each player traverses, you get this super mental back and forth of pre-emptive or delayed casting of spells.
Goblins is more of a grindfest where Goblin plays an aggressive control deck while maverick plays the defensive aggro deck. As Goblins durdles in peace, he is able to generate overwhelming card advantage. Maverick, on the other hand, needs to put the game away before there are too many cards drawn and too many tokens produced. This puts Maverick on the clock, but it also forces maverick to disrupt and control the board *as if* it were the control deck. Less back and forth mental magic and more about navigating most efficient lines of play.
Both are super good, and I can see how one is more interesting than the other depending on player.
I think UR Delver would be a good opponent for a Maverick duel deck. It is a very interactive matchup, and cheaper than other delver decks since it doesn't need wasteland.
I went 2-1 with Leovold's Maverick on my weekly Legacy night.
2-0 with Grixis Delver (1-0)
2-0 with Sneak and Show (2-0)
1-2 with 4 Color Midrange: Leovold's Midrange (2-1).
I feel pretty great just GSZ with Leovold. Also I've made the notion to go back and run Bird of Paradise. I've won more games with just a BoP than with any of my other creatures because no one expects it.
Does that mean no Trop? I've been wondering how well he would play without the blue land.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderknight
I do run a Trop just for safety reason, but I going to try to replace it with a different land, probably going to go back to either Horizon Canopy or Maze of Ith.Quote:
Originally Posted by DoomRabbit
Did a weekly event last night, went 1-1-1, so not too good. But it made me wonder about maze of ith.
There are some matchups where its just the best, allowing to be able to do so much. But other matchups where it just saves you a few points of damage and that's about it.
The question I have is--can Maze be a sideboard card? Like, it seems like most lists either run Maze main or don't run maze at all. For non-maze players--how do you usually deal with fast delver draws? For the maze players (like myself) could you ever see it being a sideboard card?
The card is very depending on your meta. If you feel that there's enough creatures that you can justify running the card, then go for it. Its also has the neat combat trick with Knight, however Scrub Ranger accomplish the same trick as well. Maze isn't a sideboard card intitally, if anything, you bring the card out for a better land (Bojika Bog for Etc).Quote:
Originally Posted by TMagpie
Maze is good for the follwoing decks.
Eldarzi, Infect, Delver, Maverick, DnT, Shardless, etc
I cut maze of ith shortly after the printing of tnn. It just felt so lackluster after going from being one of the best cards against blade to being garbage in that matchup, and everything else features craptons of wastelands/ports. My approach to the creature matchups now is to get batterskull online so I don't die, remove creatures to which equipment is attempted to be equipped, get my own jittes/sofai's online. When it doesn't work out I just lose, but maze wasn't helping much in those situations anyway, just delaying the inevitable (and getting blown out by topdecked stifle/port/wastelands). Maze was the tits when UW stoneblade was a thing, but it has been years and the card has gotten much worse (especially now that tempo, midrange, AND control decks are all playing TNN).
What are y'all SB choices aganist Food Chain? What do you bring in/bring out?
+2 Canonist, +2 Decay -1 Teeg, -1 Thalia, -1 Mom (g charm, deluge etc), -1 Noble Hierarch.
From zenith version.
Just saw this list on MTGgoldfish and it's interesting. Would like to read some opinions about their sideboard tech (enlightened tutor + some toolboxy enchantments and artifacts)
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/533519#paper
On the gaea's cradle topic, I don't see any reason not to run it. Cradle + equipments/tracker/ooze is insane (plus, you tend to go low on lands thanks to wasteland, so having some creatures but 2 lands is not unreasonable)
Also, any consensus about basic swamp? My budget can't afford a second bayou but I feel like I need more black sources (too many times where I couldn't cast decay or zealous persecution)
One more thing, does someone know good maverick gameplay videos? I usually learn a lot by watching other people play and comment their plays. Sadly, channelfireball has nothing.
Just went 3-2 in a league,coming off of a 4-1 from the other day:
Miracles: 2-1
Grixis Reanimator: 2-0
BUG Delver: 0-2
Aggro Loam: 0-2 (bad variance here)
Burn: 2-0
To answer above points:
1) E Tutor board: it can be awesome if you want better answers to more stuff, but generally weak vs the top decks. Better to have more focused approach with 2 ofs or 3 ofs vs Delver and Miracles and stuff.
2) Basic Swamp: I would recommend against it, but you can always change your deck to become more junk-like (bobs, thoughtseizes main, 3-4 decays main), and it isn't so bad. It casts only deathrite shaman otherwise, and that it just bad.
3) Videos:
http://tcdecks.net/results_videos.ph...ormat=Noformat
Enjoy!
I am thinking about putting something together like thrabenuniversity.com but for Maverick. Would anyone be interested in that? Basically just a hub of Maverick content ranging from history to articles to an extensive coverage section. Maybe it can be called "The Reliquary" or something like that lol
Well, I'm also playing maindeck decay so it can cast that too. I agree that it's probably not worth it though.
If you have time to do it, I would definitely read something like thraben university for maverick.
Basic swamp often feels bad, especially if it's in a non-DRS opening hand.
If you want one more GB source try an Overgrown Tomb. If you only have one shockland in the deck to worry about it's easy to play accordingly. You can fetch it first at the end of an opponent's turn like a Modern player or just be happy that you only have to pay the 2 life once per game; it's not bad like a blue shockland is when playing Daze.
Or if you don't have a Scrubland you can get one of those about half the price of a Bayou.
Yes, actually the ideal manabase for a zenith version is close to this:
2 Savannah
1 Bayou
1 Scrubland
2 Forest
1 Plains
4 Windswept
4 Verdant
4 Waste
1 Karakas
1 Horizon
1 Gaea's Cradle
Only need 1 bayou
Went 3-2 in another league.
UR Delver: 2-0
Elves: 0-2
Shardless BUG: 2-1
Jund: 2-1
Miracles (Sam Roukas): 1-2
Almost got there g3 v miracles, but a Terminus followed by Mentor into entreat for 3 sealed the deal for him.
Has anyone been trying out Renegade Railler?
Hi ironclaud8690,
congrats for your results on MTGO :)
I have some questions for you:
1) Which do you think is the best version of maverick ATM? Vial or zenith?
2) What do you think about Thalia HC in the zenith version?
Thx :smile:
I am really not sure. Vial has better game vs delver and aggro loam, maybe miracles too. Zenith however gives you insurance against random stuff and topdecks better. I think they are both equal, just depends on what you want to prepare for. Either way Zealous Persecution is a house and swings a ton of matchups (this new Reid duke brew, d&t).
I tried Thalia HC, she was awesome sometimes and really lackluster from behind. I may give her another try though, been a while since I tried that classic winning list with 3.
Thx for answers :smile:
can you share the list? plsQuote:
I tried Thalia HC, she was awesome sometimes and really lackluster from behind. I may give her another try though, been a while since I tried that classic winning list with 3.
I wanna test Thalia HC, she is impressive vs 3-4 colors decks.
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/476777#online
That list is a good starting spot. I would try to make room for a batterskull however, but that's just me :)
Tried Thalia, Heretic Cathar again. Zenith list, went 2-3:
Birds: 2-1
Eldrazi: 2-0
Lands: 1-2
Lands: 0-2 same player. stupid modo >:(
Burn: 1-2 (facepalm)
I remembered why I cut her. She is just too slow in many matchups and gets bounced by Karakas. Having your 3-mana card get bounced feels miserable. Perhaps she is right in somebody's build or playstyle, but I think I am gonna put her back on the shelf.
I am not sure what to try next. I am feeling sandwiched between things like BUG, Miracles, and Lands. It is really hard to get above 3 mana vs lands because every hand is a mox diamond hand with punishing fire it seems. This is one matchup where vial and prelate help a lot.
I played in the legacy dutch open this weekend, went 2-2 then dropped for car ride home reasons ;)
1-2 vs Mono red sneak attack
G1: Early Big Thalia with SoFI carried the game
G2: T1 blood moon, held my own, but was so far back I couldn't get there even through he never hit a sneak attack. Got killed by Godo carrying a batterskull.
G3: mull to 5, he then turn 2 or 3 hit me with sneak attack, griselbrand + worldspine worm.
2-0 vs BR Reanimator
G1: He reveals chancellor so I know what I'm up against, I cast Mom into the tax to get rid of it. Then proceed to swords the sire of insanity and the chancellor he reanimates on consecutive turns, land Thalia and stop him from casting much else while I beat him down from 28.
G2: Keep 6 card hand with path, surgical and containment priest (luckyyyyy), he thoughtseizes me, takes the surgical, t2 I draw the second one (luckyyyyyerrr), he exhumes with sire and grave titan in the yard, I surgical the sire, and swords the titan, then just have to fight through the zombies with a big knight while keeping up containment priest just in case he pulls something off.
1-2 vs Grixis delver
G1: Win with a relatively quick dark depths assembly (drew the stage, so only needed one knight activation).
G2: Kept a greedy hand that relied a lot on dorks and he had all the bolts he needed while killing me with 2 flipped delvers very fast.
G3: Did not learn from my previous mistake and got beat up pretty quick by pyromancer this time. Drew a zealous persecution with only green mana in play :rolleyes:, not my finest hour.
2-0 vs Sneak and Show
G1: he leads with ancient tomb, petal, show and tell. I happen to have a karakas in my opener (luckyyyyy). He happens to have Emrakul as his chosen card (luckyyyyyerrr). So I bounce that, land a thalia and lock him out of the game while killing him with 2/2s.
G2: He lands an early blood moon, but I have basic plains in play and a forest in hand, so no issues and kill him fast with a knight.
Overall had a lot of fun, got to play against decks I don't get to play against very often (if at all). I wanted to play with a cradle, but couldn't borrow one, so went back to dark depth, which was nice to have, but also a pain.
List was:
[Creatures]
3 Mother of Runes
1 Noble Hierarch
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Thalia GoT
2 Thalia HC
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Quasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Renegade Rallier (did not get to cast it once, so no idea how he goes)
[Instants]
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Swords to Plowshares
[Sorceries]
4 Green Sun's Zenith
[Artifacts]
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
[Enchantments]
1 Sylvan Library
[Lands]
2 Savannah
1 Bayou
1 Scrubland
2 Forest
1 Plains
1 Swamp
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
1 Thespian Stage
1 Dark Depths
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Karakas
4 Wasteland
[Sideboard]
3 Thoughtseize
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Choke
2 Containment Priest
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Garruk Relentless
@Ironclad
You've been very unlucky with MU's ...
1) Lands is unfavored with mazes, Abrupt, fires, and tabernacle...
2) I think burn is semi-unwinnable...too fast for maverick
I heavily disagree. I think burn is a good match up. I have had very little trouble with burn both with and without batterskull. Can't remember the last time I lost to it. They basically must answer everything you play. I could see a good burn player causing trouble, but the average burn player you should defeat fairly easily assuming your draw is decent
If burn player kill your mom/deathrite/stoneforge when they come in play i think is impossibile. If burn go only face with bolts we can win (with a good hand) but if he kills our key creatures in think is lost. Personally i have a better winrate vs Miracles....
I kept an opener g3 with a batterskull but without a stoneforge. I played 3 nonbasics, and then drew stoneforge and he vortexed me the turn before batterskull came online. From there, he Price of Progressed me down to 10, chain lightninged me, I ended up taking 4 points from the vortex and then he skullcracked me the turn I was going to attack for lethal.
Do you guys bring canonist in vs burn? I have been doing it, but it doesn't really feel very good.
My experience with burn is that I win zero of the play-test games and yet have won all but two of my burn match-ups in any event with more than 5 rounds because I am luck-sack that deserves to "burn" in hell for somehow winning those games.Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackNight
The most important card in the burn matchup is Qasali Pridemage and Deathrite Shaman. Theoretically Mother of Runes also counts but you don't actually care if she dies.
Burn kills you in three primary ways:
a.) "Getting There," also known as their fast-kill option.
b.) Burning you low and then landing an Eidolon of Great Revels to prevent you from turning the game around fast enough for them to top-deck more burn spells.
c.) Sulfuric-Fucking-Vortex the turn before you stabilize preventing you from getting out of burn range.
2/3 of these scenarios are stopped by Qasali Pridemage. He is your friend. He is your ally. And he is the main way you get around their trump cards.
You will not win if their plan (a) happens. Just hope Thalia + Life gain is enough.
But plans (b) and (c)? Those you can stop. Those you can prepare for. Make sure they get lucky when they beat you. Kill the enchantments.
Yep, exactly this. I got a.'ed then .c'ed
Now that we talk about the burn matchup, I wanted to do a quick question about the last play of the famous Sullivan vs Merriam match
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhWXEKbtCiw (from min 26)
Maverick player
13 life
5 lands (forest, plains, wasteland, dryad arbor and savannah)
4/4 KotR on the battlefield
jitte, qasali and canonist in hand
Burn player
13 life
4 mountains (all tapped)
Sulfuric vortex and grim lavamancer on the battlefield (no cards in the graveyard)
4 cards in hand
What would be your play? This are the lines I can think of:
1 (Jitte line) Play jitte and equip, break wasteland on dryad and attack with knight, kill lavamancer with jitte. Burn player goes to 7 life, 5 after sulfuric vortex. Burn would need to have 11 damage on spells to kill maverick. If you survive that turn, qasali kills vortex and everything stabilizes.
2 (Merriam's line) Play qasali and canonist, leave wasteland up for blocking with qasali (in case he has any haste creature) and blowing vortex. Doesn't play around price of progress.
3 (Upgraded Merriam's line) Play qasali and canonist, break wasteland on dryad and attack with knight. Burn player goes to 6, 4 after vortex. Similar to the first line, but shuts off flame rift while allowing lavamancer to live.
In the end, I think that options 1 and 3 are equally good (both disrupt in different ways) and play around the really problematic card (price of progress is the only card that can hit for a ton of damage)
Canonist is okay in this matchup, but I mean, burn can play around it just fine (one spell in his turn, one spell in your turn)
I think I go Pridemage. Jitte, keep wasteland open and pass. I want knight to stay active in case of price because at this point my board isn't great against it. I'm very conservative in the match up though, especially when they have cards in hand. I don't think price is especially good against this deck though either so I've found that somewhat often people board it out against me.
Active knight usually wins the matchup on it's own, you can just plow your own dude and time walk them 3 times.
Updated my vial list and went 5-0 again :D
4 Mother of Runes
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Scryb Ranger
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Sanctum Prelate
4 Aether Vial
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterksull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
2 Savannah
1 Bayou
1 Scrubland
2 Plains
1 Forest
4 Windswept Heath
3 Marsh Flats
4 Wasteland
1 Karakas
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Horizon Canopy
Sideboard
3 Thoughtseize
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Choke
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Containment Priest
Pox: 2-0
Burn: 2-0
Mentor Miracles: 2-1
Reid Duke Dark Bant (with SFM + Swords to Plowshares): 2-0
BUG Delver: 2-0
This list feels pretty good. Postboard games are great with 3 Abrupt Decay. They come in vs almost everything (obv not combo besides elves). Scryb Ranger continues to impress me and take people randomly by surprise (saving your own Bayou/Savannah in response to a Wasteland is huge). I recommend ppl to try this list out.
I was going to ask what you let your vials get to, but then realized it's probably some crazy mix of whats in hand and in play etc. Having it on 2 seems like a sweet spot, and it feels like ticking it to 3 more or less shows your hand on stuff (KOTR) coming in. Have you ran into any problems with vial counters and having it lead to reads from opponents based on CMC? I know I do this at times versus DnT just wondering if you felt any effect.Quote:
Originally Posted by ironclad8690
I would much rather have cast pridemage, attacked with Arbor for 2, eot grab Maze + pridemage the vortex, next turn attack with Knight + Arbor using maze to untap knight. I don't like not having the anti-price option of wasteland.Quote:
Originally Posted by RPD
Can't you improve the Jitte line further by using Waste on the Savannah rather than the Arbor? That way you can completely blank PoP by killing your own Arbor with Jitte if necessary.Quote:
Originally Posted by RPD