[Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)

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Originally Posted by Sloshthedark

aaronm678 Congratulations how are 17 lands working for you? // would you change anything?

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I would probably cut the Volcanic for either a Badlands or a Fetch. I could see an argument for moving one of the lands to the sideboard (typically my first cards to cut post-board are either lands or petals, depending on how aggressive their mana denial plan is), but I think you want 17 in after you've sideboarded against RUG.

I could also see cutting a Chain or Slaughter Pact for Echoing Truth or Hurkyls, I wasn't expecting to see a lot of Chalices, but my list is almost just dead to it. The problem is there is only room for a 2 mana bounce spell as a 1 or 2 of, and the only way this deck can tutor it is Grim Tutor.

Other than that, I liked my list a lot -- My game plan against RUG was typically just to board into 11 discard spells, since they typically don't have that many threats I can snag those, which gives me a lot of time to play around stuff like Daze and Stifle. Also -- this game plan is quite good against the counterbalance sideboard (where the Chant lists I think are just dead to that board plan).

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Originally Posted by j_rb

I'm curious. What's the list your running look like. I've found most 7 chant builds look similar to ub and you just cut a tutor or preordain for a protection spell.

Generally, Ubw looks like this:

4 Silence
2 Grim Tutor
4 Infernal Tutor
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
4 Ponder
1 Chain of Vapor
3 Preordain
1 Tendrils of Agony
3 Orim's Chant or Duress

1 Ad Nauseam
4 Brainstorm
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Dark Ritual

4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal

2 Island
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded strand
2 Swamp
2 Underground Sea
2 Tundra

It's Ub with 2 cards cut for 1 protection and a md CoV.

There's also some lists I posted a couple pages back that have white in them and have done well in large tournaments....

Ari lax just posted this list in his premium article on scg. It looks pretty sweet. I don't know about 2 rains but 1 could be worth the slot.

3 Chrome Mox
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal

Instants
2 Ad Nauseam
4 Brainstorm
3 Cabal Ritual
4 Dark Ritual
3 Orim's Chant
2 Rain of Filth
4 Silence

Sorceries
1 Grim Tutor
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
4 Infernal Tutor
4 Ponder
2 Preordain
1 Tendrils of Agony

Basic Lands
1 Island
1 Swamp

Lands
4 Flooded Strand
1 Marsh Flats
4 Polluted Delta
1 Tundra
2 Underground Sea

Sideboard:
4 Dark Confidant
3 Chain of Vapor
2 Rebuild
1 Grim Tutor
1 Preordain
2 Tendrils of Agony
1 Island
1 Plains

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The list I am running right now is looking like this:

4 duress
3 thoughseize
4 Infernal Tutor
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
4 Ponder
1 Chain of Vapor
4 Preordain
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Gitaxian probe

1 Ad Nauseam
4 Brainstorm
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Dark Ritual

4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal

3 Island
4 Polluted Delta
2 march flats
1 verdant catacombs
1 misty rainforest
2 Swamp
2 Underground Sea
1 crystal veins

Sideboard:
1 Bayou
4 doomsday
1 emrakul
4 xantid swarm
2 chain of vapor
1 shellshock isle
1 Ad Nauseam
1 rebuild

Now yes, yes, I know, i know. The probe is kinda lost. I'm aware of it. However, Grim tutor is kinda hard to find and costly for a card I am not particularly fond of, or more specifically, I hate the 3 mana, and the 3 life loss (6 from ad nauseam) doesn't help his case either. Yes, I know, he can win games you should lose, i'm aware of that too, but that still doesn't make him better to my eyes. Then, comes the case of the mox diamond and chrome mox, that I do not like either in that spot, which is why I ended up opting for a probe, just to see how he would perform. As far as I am concerned, he isn't bad at what he does. Draw a card and lets you see what's up in opponent's hand, but still a bit lackluster tho. I will however go and test mox, the forth thoughtseize and lim-dul's vault, just to see how it goes. As for the sideboard, I do like the trans board against control heavy matchups, however, it can stick to go for the emrakul plan when the guy has his wastelands. Here, i am think about either taking out the swarms and add in cloud of faeries, a laboratory maniac in case I fail hardcore (and to see if the little guy is viable.) and 2 other cards, Or i will go with textbook dark confidant plan, more resilient in general.

Now, the red list I almost want to try is the list that made top 8 GP Amsterdam. After seeing it make it this far, along with the fact that the list I saw lately were all using red made me want to try it, at some point:

4 Brainstorm
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
1 Ad Nauseam

SORCERIES (23)
4 Duress
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Ponder
4 Infernal Tutor
3 Cabal Therapy
2 Grim Tutor
1 Past in Flames
1 Tendrils of Agony

LANDS (16)
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
2 Underground Sea
1 Island
1 Bayou
1 Crystal Vein
1 Swamp
1 Volcanic Island
1 Bloodstained Mire

SIDEBOARD (15)
4 Xantid Swarm
3 Dark Confidant
2 Empty the Warrens
2 Chain of Vapor
2 Slaughter Pact
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
1 Echoing Truth

so there you go, what I am playing, what I will try and all the rambling that goes with it :) As I said, I had no idea where to begin the cuts in order to add the silences and the chants, mostly because I do love my discard spells lol. Your post gave me a nice idea on where to start with that style

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Originally Posted by ThediscoPower

I had no idea where to begin the cuts in order to add the silences and the chants, mostly because I do love my discard spells lol.

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If you love your duress I'd stick with 4 duress 3 chant or a 3 duress 4 chant protection package. This is still solid against control decks with 3 or 4 chants. Also, 7 chant builds are sexy as you can chant walk against certain decks. You usually do this against maverick if you don't have the turn 1 or 2 kill.

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Originally Posted by Sloshthedark

j_rb I'd feel dead to maverick, with all respect to Ari Lax this is nice 2 Ad Nauseam nostalgia but I can't see a good deck in it

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This is true, but 99% of other builds without burning wish die to gaddock teeg also. Ari's list tries to win turn 2 not turn 3-4 like most other ant builds. Thats why there's 3 mox and rains. They add speed and consistency to your ad nauseams. Other builds will obviously have earlier wins, this one will just have more due to more fast mana. This is just common sense.

Most of the time you just kill maverick before they can stick anything with a build similar to this.

As I've said earlier, chants are sexy for just buying time... Mainly this is done against maverick so they don't stick gaddock teeg or the more recent Thalia.

AnT made it to the SCG Finals in Sac Town, but lost in Game 3:

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Phillip sat calmly as Galen ran through more mental calculations, shrugging as Infernal Tutor went to find a copy of the Cabal Ritual Galen revealed. Polluted Delta dropped Galen to 15 as he grabbed an Island and cracked his Lotus Petal to cast both powered-up copies of Cabal Ritual, topping it off with a hellbent Infernal Tutor for Ad Nauseum, leaving him with just one black mana after casting it.

The first spell out of the gate was a second Ad Nauseum, knocking off a huge chunk of his life and potential card supply, but he was fully committed and had to keep going for a mass of Dark Rituals. Instead, a bunch of chaff fell off the deck including a multiple copies of Duress, Ponder, and lands that combined to knock Galen's life down to a tiny 2. It was too late to stop, but Past in Flames flipped over and ended the game and match out of nowhere.

Phillip Contreras wins the match and is the Sacramento Legacy Open champion!

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http://www.starcitygames.com/events/..._phillip_.html

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Originally Posted by JJ-JKidd

AnT made it to the SCG Finals in Sac Town, but lost in Game 3:



http://www.starcitygames.com/events/..._phillip_.html

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I'm sure it was a long day, so misplays are understandable..but reading the coverage , it seems like he could have tutored cabal ritual instead of dark confidant the last turn and killed him by flashing back pif.

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Originally Posted by aaronm678

I'm sure it was a long day, so misplays are understandable..but reading the coverage , it seems like he could have tutored cabal ritual instead of dark confidant the last turn and killed him by flashing back pif.

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He had no red available, but if he'd gotten LED he could've done it. I think his line was to go for Ad Naus and cast it with no mana floating. :( My wife and I were watching the coverage and the sound of our simultaneous forehead slaps when he plopped a Bob on the table (after discarding one to LED) was loud enough to scare our dogs.

Dude must have been completely exhausted, because games 2 and 3 were both very winnable for him. It looked like he was relying really heavily on just brute-forcing a big Ad Naus, which is understandable enough because he was obviously too tired to clearly think out his lines of play. He also looked really uncomfortable and nervous on camera, which I'm sure factored in.

Tutoring LED wouldn't have done it, since the opponent's spell pierce would have had him 1 mana short after PiF.

He played poorly and I was facepalming myself the whole time :frown: BUT I perfectly understand how being tired after a long day like that was a huge factor in his misplays. He might want to sleep more the night before / have some energy drink at the ready the next time :tongue:

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Originally Posted by gregtron

He had no red available, but if he'd gotten LED he could've done it. I think his line was to go for Ad Naus and cast it with no mana floating. :( My wife and I were watching the coverage and the sound of our simultaneous forehead slaps when he plopped a Bob on the table (after discarding one to LED) was loud enough to scare our dogs.

Dude must have been completely exhausted, because games 2 and 3 were both very winnable for him. It looked like he was relying really heavily on just brute-forcing a big Ad Naus, which is understandable enough because he was obviously too tired to clearly think out his lines of play. He also looked really uncomfortable and nervous on camera, which I'm sure factored in.

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Gotcha -- the report wasn't awesome, I was under the impression he cracked LED before he tutored there, and I also must have missed the opponent having blue available for spell pierce.

Well yes he cracked it for black mana. The line that won through spell pierce was to crack LED for red mana, tutor for cabal ritual, cast cabal ritual using the 2 untapped lands if he pierces pay then flashback PiF with one black floating so he can go dark rit, dark rit, cabal rit, infernal, tendrils but instead he got bob and worse he blocked with the bob without drawing a single card off of it while knowing his opponent still had another geist due to a thoughtseize on turn 2. Also felt he should have played his protection differently i.e. not play it when the opponent had brainstorm mana up to make his duress fail to find, putting back psionic blast and mindbreak trap. He also kept miscounting mana during the match with his dice, like paying 3 mana for infernal tutor (I'm guessing he thought he was casting grim, but still.) When he had to go for ad nauseam game 3, I thought it would be ugly because ad nauseam is always ugly in this deck, even if you're at 18 or more life you can fizzle, which is super meh for me. He was probably tired though but that match should have been his.

Ah yeah, I forgot about the Spell Pierce. He was obviously dead-set on getting what would have likely been a disastrous Ad Naus anyway, so I'd wager his head wasn't in the game. It's really easy to get stuck on a game plan, you know? I'm sure I've lost plenty of games doing something so easy to not do, like getting Infernal with an Iggy loop... While my Tendrils is in the yard.

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Originally Posted by gregtron

He had no red available, but if he'd gotten LED he could've done it. I think his line was to go for Ad Naus and cast it with no mana floating. :( My wife and I were watching the coverage and the sound of our simultaneous forehead slaps when he plopped a Bob on the table (after discarding one to LED) was loud enough to scare our dogs.

Dude must have been completely exhausted, because games 2 and 3 were both very winnable for him. It looked like he was relying really heavily on just brute-forcing a big Ad Naus, which is understandable enough because he was obviously too tired to clearly think out his lines of play. He also looked really uncomfortable and nervous on camera, which I'm sure factored in.

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Tell me about it. I almost fell of my chair when he casted the brainstorm before going to find the tendrils with infernal tutor in one of the matches against mono red goblin, and was about to fizzle if he couldn't play the card he got from brainstorm. Then the end was kinda sad tho. He seemed completely exhausted in the end.

well the major problem was him sticking to the Ad nauseam plan - opponent has 0 GY hate cards and even if he had...
G2 he shouldn't bounce the Angel at first place... miscounting, well ok happens, but sac LED for other that R with past in flames in hand its absolutely counter intuitive :really:

G3 why re-boarding into 2 Ad Nauseam? (I hope he did not get the impression he can use some after 1st gets Mtraped like G2 at least...)

I'm not into these fancy dice counts, do you all do so? imho it's rather lengthy and causes more confusion... I just have my GY in a line - what went to GY this turn separated, cards not played down, flash-backed up and write down remaining mana just when need to think and search for something... so the storm and order is clear (for both) and easily reconstructed

What about artifacts? :tongue:

The best way is to write down everything, so that you have also no problem with judge calls, but I usually use coloured (blue/black/red/storm) d10 spindown to easily show the opponent what I'm doing.

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Originally Posted by Sloshthedark

well the major problem was him sticking to the Ad nauseam plan - opponent has 0 GY hate cards and even if he had...
G2 he shouldn't bounce the Angel at first place... miscounting, well ok happens, but sac LED for other that R with past in flames in hand its absolutely counter intuitive :really:

G3 why re-boarding into 2 Ad Nauseam? (I hope he did not get the impression he can use some after 1st gets Mtraped like G2 at least...)

I'm not into these fancy dice counts, do you all do so? imho it's rather lengthy and causes more confusion... I just have my GY in a line - what went to GY this turn separated, cards not played down, flash-backed up and write down remaining mana just when need to think and search for something... so the storm and order is clear (for both) and easily reconstructed

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I do like 3owulf, which is write everything down. When I'm going off, I track storm count with ticks, and mana down as BBB, BB, UU, or whatever. You can easily knock dice over or make a simple math mistake, and if you aren't using paper then you have no way to walk back through the events to make sure you're at the right game state. I'm also really careful to verbally confirm storm count and mana changes. For example, "storm count 4" or "go down to 2 black, cast Dark Rit" followed by "go up to five black" are super easy to do, and make a world of difference in communicating what's going on.

I too feel as though he could of easily won that match aswel however it's important not to forget that they had been playing for over 12 hrs at that point and playing storm for 12 hours straight would be far more taxing than playing dudes and suiting them up. I'm certain if that match had happened at the start of the day he would of crushed.

In the standard (Ari Lax) list, what do you board out for Dark Confidant?

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Originally Posted by gregtron

I do like 3owulf, which is write everything down. When I'm going off, I track storm count with ticks, and mana down as BBB, BB, UU, or whatever. You can easily knock dice over or make a simple math mistake, and if you aren't using paper then you have no way to walk back through the events to make sure you're at the right game state. I'm also really careful to verbally confirm storm count and mana changes. For example, "storm count 4" or "go down to 2 black, cast Dark Rit" followed by "go up to five black" are super easy to do, and make a world of difference in communicating what's going on.

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This is exactly how I do it. Tick marks for storm as it always counts up, actual symbols for mana. I usually don't go "3 floating, Dark Rit, 2 Floating, now 5" unless I'm playing into/around counters. No need for an extra operation if it doesn't matter.

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Originally Posted by AriLax

This is exactly how I do it. Tick marks for storm as it always counts up, actual symbols for mana. I usually don't go "3 floating, Dark Rit, 2 Floating, now 5" unless I'm playing into/around counters. No need for an extra operation if it doesn't matter.

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I have a separate die for the storm count then represent mana floating using blue die for U floating, black die for B floating and red die for R floating.

In addition, normally do not bring my dice out during the game, not unless I am "storming-out."

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Originally Posted by AriLax

This is exactly how I do it. Tick marks for storm as it always counts up, actual symbols for mana. I usually don't go "3 floating, Dark Rit, 2 Floating, now 5" unless I'm playing into/around counters. No need for an extra operation if it doesn't matter.

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I have a separate die for the storm count then represent mana floating using blue die for U floating, black die for B floating and red die for R floating.

I normally do not bring my dice out during the game, not unless I am "storming-out."

I actually write down the names of each spell cast (well sometimes shorthand). I started doing this when I was playing doomsday, but have kept it up regardless of the storm deck I'm playing. I write down each mana symbol while comboing. This guards against confusion in gamestate and opponents who want to cheat during a later judge call.