Yes, but it is also good against Stoneforge Mystic, Jaces, and other stuff. You're not playing it for S/T, you're playing it because it's good in almost every game, and you bring in a second where it's brilliant.Quote:
Originally Posted by Poron
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Yes, but it is also good against Stoneforge Mystic, Jaces, and other stuff. You're not playing it for S/T, you're playing it because it's good in almost every game, and you bring in a second where it's brilliant.Quote:
Originally Posted by Poron
Sneak Show players switch Emrakul with Progenitus (or just add 3-4 Progenitus) in G2 against Miracle.
Your trick is going to work just in a turn 0, G1, Sneak Show dropping Emrakul. In that situation, yes, Oblivion Ring is superior. In any other situation (that comes to my mind) Flusterstorm, Reb and Pierce are just better.
Well currently I have about 6 cards that must come out, and only 4 or so that have to come in, so it doesn't seem terrible to pull it in, though I do wonder if I want Enlightened Tutor. I love playing it, but it doesn't get me anything super relevant.
Pithing Needle, Counterbalance, and Top are all pretty solid to grab for t2/3.Quote:
Originally Posted by YamiJoey
What are the thoughts on MD 3 Entreat the Angels? I'm liking them but occasionally I get quite a number of Miracles stuck in hand. However I win alot more to windmill slammed Entreat as well. I think I'm going to cut Dsphere and RIP for 2 Snapcasters so I have some.Brainstorming redundancy.
Dsphere won me a game against a resolved liliana but was otherwise clunky. 3 mana removal is pretty meh in this fast format. RIP was the Stonecold nuts in some matchups, then totally dead in the other matchups. I think it should be in the board since I don't md helm.
Please don't play Mystical: http://gatherer.wizards.com/pages/Ca...iverseid=15367
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Pretty sure he means personal.
Currently I've been running 3 Terminus/2 Entreat. I think to support the third Entreat it's reasonable to go to 2 Terminus/1 Verdict/3 Entreat. I think 5 miracles is a good number to avoid too many stuck miracles. Often I find Entreat is the more powerful Miracle anyway, so I think this is a pretty good change.
Oops, yea thanks! :laugh:Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn
3 Entreat MD has been amazing. You want it in every non-combo matchup. Fair decks just scoop to a resolved Entreat. Sometimes I've even been able to set up back to back Entreats and it's simply crushing. Even if they can deal with the first one, the second almost always gets there. To run 6 miracles MD, you need the support though. I run 3 Clique, 1 Ponder (in addition to the standard 3 Jace, 4 Top, 4 BS), and recently been testing 2 Snapcasters to help set up/get rid of miracles.Quote:
Originally Posted by ivanpei
I have been playing with 3 MD entreats and have had similar results. If you face fair decks more often than not, might as well give yourself and edge as its your most powerful card most likely.
According to my few competitive experience and a lot of testplays I need the 3rd Entreat MD if I don't play the RiP-Helm combo in order to finish on time, or to be able to control the board against creature heavy decks.
That's my issue, I think. I really want to get stuff, and half the reason I want it is to go T1 Top, then I can T2 grab a D-Sphere in response to an S/T. Yes they know it's coming, but their only out is either to drop nothing, or Sneak with mana up, at which point we've already lost anyway because it resolved. I'd throw Pierces at them first and be tapped out on T2, but it's just an extra card that says 'Maybe you don't die' as opposed to just dieing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dzra
I do also want to up my win conditions a little. I currently play 2 Clique, 3 Jace, 1 Entreat, 1 Thassa as my main win conditions, and it's simply not enough for me right now, though I do feel as if I am just bad at using Jace right now more than it's a problem with the build.
Hey I have a miracle list that I was wanting to get everyones opinion on it. Its U/W with helm combo
Also I'm not sold on the sideboard so help there would be great also thanks.
Artifact (5)
1xHelm of Obedience
4xSensei's Divining Top
Enchantment (7)
3xCounterbalance
1xDetention Sphere
1xEnergy Field
2xRest in Peace
Instant (14)
4xBrainstorm
1xCounterspell
4xForce of Will
2xSpell Pierce
3xSwords to Plowshares
Creature (2)
2xVendilion Clique
Planeswalker (3)
3xJace, the Mind Sculptor
Sorcery (7)
2xEntreat the Angels
1xSupreme Verdict
4xTerminus
Land (22)
2xArid Mesa
4xFlooded Strand
5xIsland
1xKarakas
1xMisty Rainforest
3xPlains
2xScalding Tarn
4xTundra
Sideboard*(15*cards)
Artifact (1)
1xEngineered Explosives
Creature (2)
2xEthersworn Canonist
Enchantment (7)
1xDetention Sphere
1xHumility
3xLeyline of Sanctity
2xRest in Peace
Instant (4)
2xFlusterstorm
1xMisdirection
1xSwords to Plowshares
Planeswalker (1)
1xElspeth, Knight-Errant
Also I would prefer to stay out of red but besides moon I don't see a huge reason to go into red
And moat is a no go because my wallet cries every time I think about it
Thanks for the input
Currently playing an Esper Miracle list that I've been really enjoying:
// Creatures: 4
2x Vendillion Clique
1x Snapcaster Mage
1x Notion Thief
// Spells: 23
2x Entreat the Angels
3x Terminus
1x Supreme Verdict
4x Swords to Plowshares
1x Vindicate
4x Brainstorm
4x Force of Will
2x Spell Pierce
2x Counterspell
// Permanents: 11
4x Sensei's Divining Top
4x Counterbalance
3x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
// Lands: 22
21x Lands
1x Creeping Tar Pit
// Sideboard: 15
2x Hero's Downfall
1x Notion Thief
3x Thoughtseize
2x Misdirection
1x Detention Sphere
3x Rest in Peace
1x Engineered Plague
1x Disenchant
1x Terminus
So far it's been really fun, I've been consistently placing top 4 at all my local events with it. This is my first foray into a fair blue deck, it's pretty hard to get used to the depth of the plays and the planning that goes into everything.
Some choice descriptions:
Notion thief maindeck: This guy has been pretty good so far, I've killed a lot of people with him, I haven't really blown anyone out yet but I wasn't expecting to. It was more to be used as a maindeck answer to opposing Jace and Griselbrand's.
Snapcaster: Didn't want a lot of them, but he is usually the MVP of a match. I don't think a lot of people have him on their radar of my options when he comes down. I've gotten a lot of two-for-one's by flashing him in, plowing something and blocking another, then untapping into a jace or something. Feels good. I tried to tell myself I wanted a second, but I don't think this is the case, I think one is the perfect number.
Vindicate: I originally had detention sphere here, but a brief discussion with a friend pointed out that they fill the same maindeck purpose, except Vindicate is actually just strictly better at fulfilling it.
Sideboard: The sideboard may have too much creature hate in it, but with the Thoughtseizes coming in I usually feel pretty confident against combo anyways. I'll likely try and put 2 Swan Song's in there to have more outs to combo.
Hero's Downfall: This card has been awesome so far. I feel so safe against planeswalkers, and coupled with the snapcaster, it's just a good feeling. I don't care that it's 3 mana too much, at instant speed it's just nice being able to kill an opposing jace on their end-step or in response to their brainstorm.
Creeping Tar Pit: I've won most of my games off the back of this card so far I believe. Just seems good.
Hero's Downfall, to me, doesn't make any sense.. it's more difficult to cast then Vindicate and doesn't hit Artifact, Enchantments (or lands, but who cares of lands anyway). Just because it's Instant, may be..
I really just wanted more spot removal, and it being instant feels good to me. I don't exactly want to be tapping out every turn. I can try two vindicates in it's spot however. It may just be better because it's so flexible and deals with a lot of problem permanents.Quote:
Originally Posted by Poron
Lightning Bolt isn't much different than Hero's Downfall then... it just loses to Tarmogoyf and high loyalty walkers.. don't like that card very much.
and if we stay red we have 4 Rebs for Jace and the only problem becomes Liliana (which is fine for flying creatures and Bolt)
black, imho, is just good for disruption and sweepers. not aimed removal. White is there for that (or, at that point, Vindicate)
If you are running helm combo, then it's hard to justify Not running Enlightened Tutor. You can easily replace an Elspeth to improve consistency with an E.T.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moose8583
Hero's Downfall is bad, it's not even Legacy competitive. If any decks were to run it, BUG would be the first.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kich867
Creeping Tar Pit is also bad in this deck. You almost never want to tap lands on your own turn. It's pretty much a Mana-hungry Clique.
Vindicate is worse. There's this real deck called Show and Tell, DS/O-Ring actually helps, Vindicate does nothing.
Personal Tutor is interesting, since whatever you tutor, you can instant-miracle the card off anyway.
For reference, my meta game that I play in most often is legitimately the fairest meta game in the north east: jund, junk, Esper, maverick, rug delver, uwr delver, shard less bug, death and taxes, death blade, nic fit, burn, affinity. My deck is mostly tuned with this in mind, I agree that o ring effects are more relevant against snt, however with a lot of abrupt decay and qasali pridemages floating around I'd rather them not get whatever it is back. This is why vindicate seems like a better option for my list, it's that the permanent actually stays gone.