[Deck] GW/x Maverick

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Originally Posted by conley1000000

Do you think that Pun Fire and Thalia can coexist MB in a deck looking to punish the cost of spells/mana and remove low toughness creatures to save STP for there big creatures i.e. jund and bug delver?

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Yes, naturally. Thalia is already bad against creature decks, where PFires shines. The reverse is also true with Thalia vs unfair decks, where PFires is just a shock. How many turns does it take in Game 1 to figure out what you're up against? In either situation, you can always chump block with Thalia to get rid of her and start PFiring away.

Granted, it's hard to fit in 4 Thalia with more spells in the deck, so cut that down to 3. Then, run the 4th in the board for when you do need it.

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Originally Posted by Koby

Yes, naturally. Thalia is already bad against creature decks, where PFires shines. The reverse is also true with Thalia vs unfair decks, where PFires is just a shock. How many turns does it take in Game 1 to figure out what you're up against? In either situation, you can always chump block with Thalia to get rid of her and start PFiring away.

Granted, it's hard to fit in 4 Thalia with more spells in the deck, so cut that down to 3. Then, run the 4th in the board for when you do need it.

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Thats along the lines of what I was thinking, but wasn't sure if I was sound thought. I'm working hard not to give up on the deck and keep it going. This semi fresh look could be something it really needs...

I think P. Fires definitely gives the deck a bit more of an edge that just derdling til we get Terminus'd.

-Matt

Another thing I've been wondering is Leyline of Sanctity. With Jund creating space for more combo should this be in our SB. My other question would it warrant coming in vs. Jund itself? I know alot of people use it in modern against it and there discard suite only gets better in legacy?

Is anyone using giest of saint traft?

It depends how the maindeck and sideboard are built. I think if there's cards in the main that aren't pulling their weight, Leyline seems okay. But, do you keep hands without it? Probably, but then you draw awkward 4 mana enchantments later. Seems meh. I'd rather just put in more juice against them. Yes playing against discard sucks, but playing more good things also seems legitimate. In the BGx: BGx mirror, I always board out discard since it's so bad when you draw it in the mid to late game, and you can usually recover from a Hymn in the early game.

-Matt

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Originally Posted by sdematt

It depends how the maindeck and sideboard are built. I think if there's cards in the main that aren't pulling their weight, Leyline seems okay. But, do you keep hands without it? Probably, but then you draw awkward 4 mana enchantments later. Seems meh. I'd rather just put in more juice against them. Yes playing against discard sucks, but playing more good things also seems legitimate. In the BGx: BGx mirror, I always board out discard since it's so bad when you draw it in the mid to late game, and you can usually recover from a Hymn in the early game.

-Matt

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Specifically:
Sylvan Library (out-draw your opponent)
Life from the Loam (recur Wasteland and Horizon Canopy -- spotty vs DRS)
Horizon Canopy via KotR (extra cards)
Brainstorm (in blue splashes, application is obvious)

This deck does not belong in the DTB anymore. Unrepresented and probably will not place if played. I guess this archetype needs a break from the format.

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Originally Posted by useL

This deck does not belong in the DTB anymore. Unrepresented and probably will not place if played. I guess this archetype needs a break from the format.

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You posted a 4-0 list about a month and a half ago which was a more hostile meta with all the one mana sweepers running around than the current meta. The deck can certainly place if played by skilled pilots willing to put the work in. Stoneblade and rug were fine match ups before and that hasn't changed. Mom is one of the best answers to an abrupt decay in the format. The decks biggest weakness miracles is not as popular as it was a couple months ago. Maverick has all the tools to be a competitive deck in the current meta. It's not like combo is everywhere which is obviously the worst case scenario. A properly tuned deck can certainly grind with the mid range grindy decks such as jund that are currently running around. I agree it is probably not a deck to beat at the moment and is extremely underrepresented but it absolutely has the tools to take an event down if the deck is given the proper attention.

Only: Deathrite Shaman --> KotR =(

But the deck still works very well in the current meta! BUG isn't a difficult matchup I believe, so the problem with KotR is not that big. Mother of Ruins is a bitch ^^! But you might want to add 2/3 Stoneforge Mystic with some equipment again, for those who had cut it before.

And if think Gaddock Teeg + some sideboard cards can win some of the combo matches, you can even go back to Punishing Fire lists to beat all other decks around!

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Originally Posted by useL

This deck does not belong in the DTB anymore. Unrepresented and probably will not place if played. I guess this archetype needs a break from the format.

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Maverick, especially Punishing Maverick, is most certainly still a tier 1 deck, and I think the sooner folks catch onto that, the sooner we'll see top 8s by it again. It can most certainly go toe-to-toe with any of the non-miracles decks out there, even combo (Thalias and Teeg). For now the deck is the dark horse of the format.

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Originally Posted by Canes25

You posted a 4-0 list about a month and a half ago which was a more hostile meta with all the one mana sweepers running around than the current meta. The deck can certainly place if played by skilled pilots willing to put the work in. Stoneblade and rug were fine match ups before and that hasn't changed. Mom is one of the best answers to an abrupt decay in the format. The decks biggest weakness miracles is not as popular as it was a couple months ago. Maverick has all the tools to be a competitive deck in the current meta. It's not like combo is everywhere which is obviously the worst case scenario. A properly tuned deck can certainly grind with the mid range grindy decks such as jund that are currently running around. I agree it is probably not a deck to beat at the moment and is extremely underrepresented but it absolutely has the tools to take an event down if the deck is given the proper attention.

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I agree to your statement. It is indeed a strong deck still and played properly and tuned thereafter it can put up results. But right now, this deck is not amongst the decks I practice against for any tournament since I do not see it as a great threat or a deck represented in an event.

Lol, just seen a weird Vial Maverick in MWS.

Lands [21]
4 Windswept Heath
1 Misty Rainforest
4 Savannah
3 Horizon Canopy
1 Plains
1 Forest
4 Wasteland
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith

Creatures [28]
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Mother of Runes
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Qasali Pridemage
3 Scavenging Ooze
3 Aven Mindcensor
3 Weathered Wayfarer
3 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Birds of Paradise

Spells [11]
4 AEther Vial
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Sylvan Library

Sideboard [15]
4 Pithing Needle
3 Path to Exile
3 Gaddock Teeg
2 Krosan Grip
2 Ground Seal
1 Batterskull

Sideboard pretty much design to hate on Deathrite Shaman and Miracles. Aven Mindcensor is a bitch, and carries equipment like a boss. This deck still has a pretty favourable matchup against Jund/BUG/RUG and when people come off the Deathrite Shaman hype, it might place well in tournaments.

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Originally Posted by useL

This deck does not belong in the DTB anymore. Unrepresented and probably will not place if played. I guess this archetype needs a break from the format.

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The deck can still make result. The fact is there are less and less people playing it so the chance of the deck to be Top 8 decrease. In my metagame (In France), Maverick still represents about 5% of the metagame (Yeah yeah French are kind of outdated, not a news) and there are often one in the Top 8. (Maybe (I hoppe) there will be a Maverick in the next top 8 of the BOM (700+ players tournament in France)).

UW Miracle, Storm and S&T (worst MU ever^^) are tough MU but UW Miracle is not as popular as before and Storm has always been here.

The other decks of the meta are winnable. Of course some changes has to be made: Mirran crusader has certainly his place in a heavy BUG metagame (This guy just win this MU alone), Aven Mindcensor need to make his come back as a 2/3 off (Good against... RUG, BUG, ANT, etc.) and PF should be consider.

I just went 3-1 in a small tournament yesterday, I lost on a mistake against ANT but RUG, BUG and Dredge were free for me. The keys were: Mother, Aven Mindcensor (So good mana denial with Wasterland), Mirran Crusader, Rest in peace (This card is insane... Very effective nowadays).

Look at the list I posted as a jumping off point. Fires and Mindcensor are darn good right now. I haven't tried Vial, so I can't say anything about that, but flash flying ANYTHING is good.

-Matt

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Originally Posted by heallan

The keys were: Mother, Aven Mindcensor (So good mana denial with Wasterland), Mirran Crusader, Rest in peace (This card is insane... Very effective nowadays).

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I fully agree with Crusader, thats a card I've been testing very thoroughly. I like Aven Mindcensor as well, especially in the Punishing Fire version where you have to trim thalia back.

Interesting. I have tried out Aven Mindcensor multiple times, and I've always been disappointed by him. One of the Problems I have is that I can't find a place in my list to include it right now. My list feels as tight as hell, and I even had problems switching from GW to Punishing because I couldn't find anything to cut.

I've finally ended with this list:

Creatures (22):
4 Mother of Runes
3 Noble Hierarch
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Mirran Crusader
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scryb Ranger

Spells (15):
4 Green Sun’s Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Punishing Fire
2 Umezawa’s Jitte
2 Sylvan Library

Lands (23):
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Maze of Ith
1 Karakas
1 Horizon Canopy
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
3 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills
3 Savannah
1 Taiga
1 Plateau
1 Forest
1 Plains


Sideboard (15):
3 Red Elemental Blast
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Pithing Needle
2 Oblivion Ring
1 Life from the Loam
1 Crop Rotation
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Harmonic Sliver

Punishing is a Blowout right now! My meta mainly consists of BUG and Miracle Blade Hybrids. Back then, with my GW build, I've always had problems with those Deathrite Shamans, and I lost many games against the Control Decks with them at 1 life - things that Punishing Fire surely could handle. And 'till now, I'm satisfied with the results.

I like to have Thalia alongside PFire. Fire gets rid of the early Shamans, preventing the BUG Opponents from ramping, and then Thalia puts her Tax on them, hindering their game plan even more. Against BUG, I mostly even side in the 4th Thalia because I think that she's so great. And there are nice combat tricks you can do with her First Strike and PFire.
Mirran Crusader is also a blowout against BUG. Put a Jitte on him, and he becomes absolutely bonkers! He's also good against Miracle Blade - Rest in Peace doesn't shrink him, and he doesn't get blown up by Perish. Batterskull doesn't help them refilling their life totals... only Souls still suck. And against Swords, you still have Mother.
I've cut the 4th Knight to fit in a 2nd Crusader. With all those Shamans around right now, I believe that this is a solid choice - I can still tutor the Knight with GSZ in the MUs I need him - which I can't do with Crusader. That's why I definitely want a 2nd one.
Sylvan Library is amazing, as always. I would never go down below 2 of them.

Yeah, and the SB is built to fight those Control Decks. The Split between Needle and Revoker because there's the occasional Storm or Elves Deck I have to face. The blasts help against BUG, too. But I don't even think that the MU is unfavourable for me right now. Sliver is my bet as additional tutorable Artifact/Enchantment Removal. All those Engineered Plagues hurt, and Rest in Peace also needs to be dealt with.

There's just the question about my Manabase. I'm not absolutely sure if I would need a 7th Fetchland. But what should I cut, if I put it in? the 3rd Savannah?
Also, it hurt to cut Cavern of Souls - but I think that a land like Horizon Canopy, which produces G and W under all circumstances, is better. I sometimes found myself being cut off White, not being able to cast my StPs. That's also the reason why I put in the Plateau (my friends said that I should play 2 Taiga - I honestly disagree)

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Creatures (22):
4 Mother of Runes
3 Noble Hierarch
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Mirran Crusader
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scryb Ranger

Spells (15):
4 Green Sun’s Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Punishing Fire
2 Umezawa’s Jitte
2 Sylvan Library

Lands (23):
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Maze of Ith
1 Karakas
1 Horizon Canopy
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
3 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills
3 Savannah
1 Taiga
1 Plateau
1 Forest
1 Plains

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I think personally, Mirran Crusader is great, however, do you NEED him to win the BUG matchup? I haven't gotten a ton of testing in so I cannot say for certain that's he a requirement in that matchup.

First, Knight is the only beef you have in the deck, so I'd up his count to 4 of. Even at 3 mana, he's tutoring for your Grove, Wasteland, Maze, etc. Personally, I've cut the Equipment from the deck to make room for Mindcensors. Yes, I know it's blasphemy, but I just feel that with 7 pieces of mainboard removal (3 being recurring removal), that you don't really need that extra edge in the mainboard.

For the manabase, I feel like the Canopy and Plateau are a bit of overkill. I think I'd rather have a bit more of a solid manabase and change that to a Forest and a Savannah (I'd personally run 2 Forest to have more basic lands against Tempo decks, since Hierarch can be fragile at times). You do lose a bit of consistency in casting red spells postboard, but the red spells you bring in are not always for Tempo Wasteland decks. I'm actually trying out a Ghost Quarter in my build against the double Plains waiting game of Miracles. If you can knock them off double Plains, making them hold a fetch for Tundra or fetch Tundra earlier is music to the ears of your Wastelands.

Your board looks fine for what you're trying to do. I personally would not include more than 3 Needle effects, and the 4th Thalia could be a Cannonist, but this is a meta call really.

-Matt

I gave it a good shot. Really did. Then I faced burn and wished I ran actual threats - not 1/1s.
Then I faced the mirror, and wanted to tie a noose.

Not trying this experiment again in the near future.

Abandon all hope, ye who enter here.

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Originally Posted by Koby

I gave it a good shot. Really did. Then I faced burn and wished I ran actual threats - not 1/1s.
Then I faced the mirror, and wanted to tie a noose.

Not trying this experiment again in the near future.

Abandon all hope, ye who enter here.

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That's pretty strong, wow.

-Matt