[Deck] UW(x) Landstill

I've finally found a list I'm happy with that has Tops and Facts. Top is amazing, but when I ran them I felt like I ran out of gas without Fact or Fiction, and since putting them together I'm really satisfied with the current draw package. I need help sideboarding, though, specifically against aggro loam and zoo.

Against zoo, I want to bring in:
4 Counterbalance
2 Blue Elemental Blast
1 Path to Exile (I want to keep one in the board so I can wish for it)

I plan on taking out two Wraths, and a Decree. (I still want two so I have a decent clock alongside 2 Elspeth) I think 2x Counterspell is the next worst card, but my Counterbalance curve gets much worse when I remove those. Explosives is slow, and I already have six Swords and two Blasts as spot removal, but they always seem to bring in something like Choke or Sulfuric Vortex against me, and I don't want them to have an active Library.

Against loam I want to take the same package, but if they don't run Burning Wish the Blasts don't come in. Any help would be appreciated here.

Explosives is a key card vs Zoo. It lets you survive the early 1cc drops assault not falling into burn range. Also, sometimes it rids you of these Chokes and Vortexes. And Library too.

C/B against loam and zoo is awful, really. Just never works the way you want it to. It only should come in against combo and burn, and in some matches where you have many dead cards. Against Zoo you want COP:Red, against Loam - relics and extirpates, against both you need some way to get rid of Chalice/Needle/Vortex if they run it (Wish for disenchant effect/vindicate/etc)

Bringing in extra Paths is the best route. Also, if you run 3 Standstills maindeck, consider boarding in a 4th copy. You have much control of the early game, you can easily just consistently land the Standstill by Turn 2.

Choke doesn't hurt you as much if you run a more "White" concentrated build. You can still cast cards like WoG, Paths and Swords, so you still have game.

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Originally Posted by Citrus-God

If you think Disenchant in the board is questionable, the mana base is atrocious.

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Going back on this theme. Would you cut 1 faerie concleve??? or both? In favor of what?
Do you consider that a 24 land mana base is enough?

Tolaria is a great tutor so i'll keep it in.

On the other hand -1 Elpeth +1 Eternal dragon is a bad change?

I earned 3 byes for Madrid this weekend running the non-wish version.

Metagame was infested by gobs and combo. Since there was some very bad weather predicted attendance was quite low (30 people).

Round 1: 2-0 against ANT

I played this guy last tournament and I am sure he's playing ANT. Not very good for me game 1 but that's what my sideboard is for.

Game 1: I see the following spell snare, 2* counterspell, 2 wasteland and two other blue cards (I think FoF and standstill). I guessed my best bet was to draw into blue mana as fast as possible and decide to keep. I'm a little miffed when my topdecks turn out to be humility and stp but eventually I see the blue mana I need while he's having diffculty assembling a protected combo. Eventually he does manage to resolve Ad Nauseam but not before he sees his main deck grip and ill-gotten-gains. He stops at 1 life unable to combo out. Eventually I manage to kill him...

Game 2: The game drags out since I manage to cast 2 canonnist and he kills at least 1. I counter his hurkyll's recall as well and that gets me the match.

Round 2: 2-1 against Aluren

Game 1: I used to play this deck (in the very old version pre-legacy) so I hope that I can offset his advantage of playing a rogue deck. It turns out differently. I have no pressure and he easily takes game 1 (cabal therapy did me in).

Game 2: Engineered plague on beast (don't know if I should have boarded it in since the deck has other outs), ethersworn and extirpate on cabal therapy help me a lot. He eventually resolves a pernicious deed and blows up my board but I win anyway...

Game 3: More of the same (extirpate on cabal therapy). And this time a topdecked humility seals the deal.

Round 3 2-0 against Bant something (no CB)

Game 1: My opponent is a team mate and we tested the thursday before. Landstill has a very good match-up against this deck and game 1 confirms the theory. Although he has no MD solutions he insists on playing on after resolving a humility. He loses anyway.

Game 2: I never got so close to defeat against his deck and eventually we both need to topdeck. I always seem to have the answer just in time until I resolve a FoF which puts me waaaaaaay ahead and wins me the match.


Round 4: ID (gobs)
Round 5: ID (ANT)

Quarters

I have to play against a team mate, but since he already has his byes for Madrid he keeps a mediocre hand. Eventually I have humility and win from thereof game 1.
Game 2 is more of the same.

Semis

Another team mate, and again gobs. Game 1 eventually gives me humility to seal the game but I was very lucky to contain the goblin onslaught until then.
Game 2 he scoops it up against my 4 engineered plague for which he has no answer...

Finals

Win against Belcher

Game 1: I have to mull to 6 and see the all deciding force of will. He has to mull to 5. I have no colored mana sources however. Eventually I manage to get the mana and counter his key spells. Since I used to play the deck myself I know when and what to counter. I also have some use for a topdecked stp since he has wall of roots in play to keep my factories at bay...

Game 2: I open a hand with force and an enlightened tutor. He goes for turn 1 tokens but forgets he doesn't have the red mana (I have explosives anyway :)). After that the game is pretty much over since I have a canonnist in play turn 2.



I'm still very fond of the non-wish version. I can't count how many times vindicate gets me out of a predicament against any given deck.

I feel the same about running 3 FoF by the way. The card is devestating once you cast it.

Congratz Reagens. I'm glad somebody else besides me feels that way towards FoF. It's a hard call to say whether FoF is a mandatory auto-include in Landstill because it takes a lot of practice to make the card work, and it's more decisions you have to make. It's bad enough that we had to rework our removal base to compliment the fast metagame shift, so running FoF would make running situational removal more of a headache. I can also see the appeal of not running Wish, so I'm not going to go there.

@GoldenCid: If we had to compromise on what the manabase should look like, I think you should cut both Conclaves and a Wasteland. Make it look something similar to this

1 Tolaria West
1 Academy Ruins
2 Wasteland
3 Mishra's Factory

As for replacing Elspeth with an Eternal Dragon, I genuinely think you should replace a copy of CoW with an Eternal Dragon.

Congrats! What was your list? Would you write a thorough report?

In the meanwhile, I've also top8ed a GPT, but lost outright to Dreamhalls combo, by a huge punt.

@Citrus

It was not my intention to start the discussion again (FoF, wish or not). It was however my intention to prove that both strategies (wish/ non-wish mainly) are both viable in competitive legacy.
It felt necessary to point out because although there is quite some discussion on the wish version (which is good) but very little on the vindicate version. I hope this can be a motivation for players picking up the deck to consider if the vindicate build is closer to their playing style instead of just sticking to the different wishstill versions because those are the only ones being discussed.

@Tinefol

The maindeck list is basically the last list I could find from Konsultant but I replaced 1 wrath of god with 1 humility. I was quite happy with that (it is absolutely murder against gobs) but it is of course quite random. I have a more extensive report in Dutch, but I don't really take notes and thus it isn't very extensive. If I have some time later this week I'll try and translate it and post it.

Sideboard:

4 engineered plague
4 ethersworn canonnist
1 enlightened tutor
1 crucible of worlds
1 ajani gold-mane
3 extirpate
1 path to exile

In general:

Is everybody happy with their manabase?
I started two games without colored mana (both against combo) and had to wait some time to get them. The mana base seems rather shaky when confronted with mana disruption as well. Is this a problem you guys encountered as well? Or was it just a fluke that I found myself short on mana several times? I did manage to win those games eventually.

I run (besides 1 e.dragon and 3 brainstorm):

3 flooded strand
1 polluted delta
2 marsh flats
2 island
2 plains
1 swamp
4 tundra
1 underground sea
1 scrubland
3 mishra's factory
3 wasteland

Edit:

Almost forgot:

Big thanks to Elf Ascetic and Konsultant for some last-minute advice. Much appreciated!

Edit 2: the list:

4 swords to plowshares
2 wrath of god
1 humility
3 decree of justice
2 elspeth
1 eternal dragon
3 vindicate
3 engineered explosives
2 spellsnare
3 counterspell
4 force of will
3 brainstorm
3 standstill
3 fact or fiction

Would be great if we could see the Maindeck Reagens!

6 Colourless and 5 basics looks fine. Any higher than 6 and I might believe it was more than luck but as it is, I would say it was just bad luck.
Do you think dropping Tolaria West and Academy Ruins (which are both Run in Konsultant's most recent deckcheck.net mana base) are not worth the slots?
Recurring is just so strong in some matchups...

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Originally Posted by arebennian

Would be great if we could see the Maindeck Reagens!

6 Colourless and 5 basics looks fine. Any higher than 6 and I might believe it was more than luck but as it is, I would say it was just bad luck.
Do you think dropping Tolaria West and Academy Ruins (which are both Run in Konsultant's most recent deckcheck.net mana base) are not worth the slots?
Recurring is just so strong in some matchups...

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Tolaria West is a pretty versatile card, but the fact that it's a Tutor more than it's Land #24 & CiPT if you need to play it, made me cut it from my list for a third Wasteland. (Thus, no EE #4, no Factory #4, etc).

I like Academy Ruins, though.

Went 4-1-2 with a vindicatelist in a 65-man tournament and what can I say, vindicate has been golden all day, it's always been golden and the preachers SB once again proved themselves.

Netted myself a 13th place and a windswept heath, was alright. Outside of getting my ass outplayed by Rock I wouldn't change a thing (except calling judges earlier on stalling opponents).

Congrats to all. But i wasn't very lucky this weekend. I went 1-3-0. Yes 3 Ties and no loss. Here is my list. You tell me if it's a problem of decklist or my poor expiriencie with the deck.

// Lands
1 [TSP] Academy Ruins
1 [FUT] Tolaria West
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
1 [RAV] Watery Grave
2 [R] Tundra
4 [AQ] Mishra's Factory (4)
3 [TE] Wasteland
2 [RAV] Island (1)
1 [DIS] Hallowed Fountain
3 [CS] Snow-Covered Plains
1 [DK] Maze of Ith
1 [10E] Faerie Conclave

// Creatures
1 [SC] Eternal Dragon

// Spells
1 [FD] Crucible of Worlds
2 [ALA] Elspeth, Knight-Errant
4 [OD] Standstill
4 [MM] Brainstorm
3 [DIS] Spell Snare
3 [6E] Counterspell
4 [AL] Force of Will
2 [TE] Humility
2 [A] Wrath of God
2 [FD] Engineered Explosives
4 [4E] Swords to Plowshares
2 [JU] Cunning Wish
1 [SC] Decree of Justice
1 [M10] Jace Beleren

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [FD] Crucible of Worlds
SB: 1 [ZEN] Mindbreak Trap
SB: 1 [A] Disenchant
SB: 1 [PLC] Extirpate
SB: 1 [CFX] Path to Exile
SB: 2 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
SB: 1 [ZEN] Ravenous Trap
SB: 1 [6E] Enlightened Tutor
SB: 3 [ARB] Meddling Mage
SB: 1 [DS] Pulse of the Fields
SB: 2 [FNM] Circle of Protection: Red

Additionel data:

My matchs ups were:

Monoblack: 1-0.
UW Landstill: 0-0.
Zoo: 1-1.
Aggro Loam: 1-1.

ThX!!

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Originally Posted by GoldenCid

You tell me if it's a problem of decklist or my poor expiriencie with the deck.

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It's really hard to judge without knowing more about your ties.
I assume you went to time 3x.
There are a couple of factors that affect that:
- your pace
- your opponents pace
- the amount of your killcons (actually you don't need more)
- and yeah, skill.

Judging from your build, it's definitely possible to hardly ever go to time unless you slowplay a lot. (read: it looks decent, apart from your mana base)

More Decrees will get you there faster. I usually only have a hard time with Landstill and time limits when Sensei's Top is involved.

This is an obvious one, but think about your potential lines of play ahead of time based on what you anticipate your opponent might do. Then, when it's your time to act, you know what you want to play when and don't spend a ton of time thinking when you have priority (although this is sometimes unavoidable)

I think the best way to go to time less with the deck is to--get better with the deck. Know all your plays ahead of time, know what you're doing in the matchup and what your goals are, and don't be afraid to call a judge for stalling. I failed to do that last tournament and it probably cost me a T8 that was almost guaranteed after going x-0 in the first 5 rounds.

@GoldenCid - how do you survive with only 12 sources of blue mana in the deck and two that come in play tapped? I look at that mana base and I think one wasteland against you and the game is over.

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Originally Posted by FoolofaTook

@GoldenCid - how do you survive with only 12 sources of blue mana in the deck and two that come in play tapped? I look at that mana base and I think one wasteland against you and the game is over.

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you are reffering to tolaria and faerie conclave. Well, tolaria is not a mana source but a tutor you know. This property was crucial for no lossing.
Respect to faerie...i don't know wath to say. Beyond this, i think that 12 blue sources is not poor. But since i began posting here everyone disliked my mana base. Why specifically??

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Originally Posted by GoldenCid

Why specifically??

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Most likely the shocklands :D At least that's what bugs me about it.

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Originally Posted by Ectoplasm

Most likely the shocklands :D At least that's what bugs me about it.

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I know...HF should be tundra and WG should be underground sea. I agree. However i can fetch in the EOT to "make my tundra". I thought in a manabase like this:

Lands
1 [TSP] Academy Ruins
1 [FUT] Tolaria West
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
1 [RAV] Watery Grave
2 [R] Tundra
4 [AQ] Mishra's Factory (4)
2 [TE] Wasteland
2 [RAV] Island (1)
1 [DIS] Hallowed Fountain
3 [CS] Snow-Covered Plains
1 [DK] Maze of Ith
2 [ON] Polluted Delta

Looks better??

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Originally Posted by GoldenCid

manabase

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Quote:

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1 [DK] Maze of Ith

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Doesn't give mana. And is crap in landstill.