[Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

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Originally Posted by Echelon

Mostly b/c I don't like it.

Vs. creatures, PtE is simply better. And not green, allowing for more efficient mana management (since you want to spend your green mana on creatures/GSZ).

Vs. non-creature, non-planeswalkers I just spend a bit more mana to answer it via Pridemage.

W/ 1 Pridemage and 4 PtE I run 4 virtual AD for creatures (in PtE) and 5 virtual AD for non-creature, non-planeswalkers (in 4 GSZ + 1 Pridemage).

As far as planeswalkers are concerned - the one that bugs us most costs 4 mana, so AD is no answer there either.

In this configuration I either have a more efficient AD, or an AD that can kill my opponent and form a neat loop w/ Meren for some insane value. Running Pridemage also means I have 8 outs to various lockpieces G1 (4 GSZ, 1 Pridemage, 3 P. Deed). Good luck hitting that number when running ADs w/o Pridemage.

As for PtE being counterable - when you have AD-mana open (i.e. 2), PtE has "Daze-proof". And if my opponent wants to waste a FoW (i.e. take a 2-for-1) on my 1 mana card, well, be my guest. The turn after that I'll probably drop a creature that puts his to shame (b/c if it were AD, the creature couldn't cost more than 3 mana in the first place and there's no 3 mana creature that Siege Rhino can't beat). Might that mean that I take some beats that AD would have prevented? Sure. I don't care. Your lifetotal is a resource as much as anything else, so just use it as such. Nic Fit is perfectly capable of recovering from near-death.

The only place where AD the more efficient option is where you'd GSZ -> Qasali Pridemage. Point is, during most of these MUs you have more time to take that route anyway, so it works out just fine in the end.

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That is a good response.

But I would like to see a Mealstrom Pulse or Judgement in 75. I don't like any answered to Jace, The Mind other then cretures.

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Originally Posted by Ralf

The opportunity cost has to be compared with PTE:

- You will usually leave 1 mana open for PTE. Yes, you can spend it during your turn (which will almost never be the case with BA) but still it will cost you 1 mana.
- Against tempo, you will play it for 2, most of the time, making it worse than a PTE.
- Against the rest, you usually wait until you can take maximum profit of it. It will be usually played for 4 mana.

So what ?

At the bare minimum, it will cost you 1 mana more than PTE to get "the job done".
It is worse against multiple attacking creatures (because your opponent gets to choose) but better against some difficult ones to deal with; just remember that the battlefield gets easily clogged with Nic Fit (especially against other midrange) and one is often only attacking with 1 creature.
But if you succeed "escalating"; it just overperforms PTE.

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You're basically repeating what I said, lol. Nowhere did I claim it was unplayable/horrible. I just weighed the pros and cons, that's it.

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Originally Posted by Meyer

Hey folks,

after abandoning the SFM build for now, my Junk Fit list gravitates more and more towards Echelons latest list. Although not completely sure about the 4x Rhino, i think this is the way to go (at least for Junk colors). We need to go back to the roots i guess, back to what Nic Fit does best: Survive early/mid game with discard, spot removal and board-stalling blockers that are supposed to die anyway (I even count Deathrite Shaman in here, as long as he accelerates us into key cards/ end game, his job is done. For me, everything beyond that is just a nice bonus). From there on, the opponent – at least in my creature-heavy meta - has two choices: Either he overextends to close the game as fast as possible, or he slows down/ keeps cards in hand to strenghten his own end game as he probably knows what my intention is. As a Nic Fit player, I'm OK with both ways. The first scenario is mostly solved by Pornicious Deed and if we're lucky it's enough and they don't come back. The second scenario is probably more common and often the harder way, but in fact it is exactly what we want: a guaranteed end game which we are strong at, then start beatdown.
The great mayority of games that I win with Junk Fit followed the simple scheme of sacrificing Deed for 3 somewhere, which annihilates the opponents board and leaves my game-winning CMC 4 or higher stuff. Why not focus on this simple method completely, without 'the danger of cool things'?
Echelons list is nearly perfect for this strategy, and I like 'well oiled machines' when it comes to my decks. Nevertheless I opt for some changes:

- 1 Deathrite Shaman (I think two is enough for our purposes)
- 1 Scavenging Ooze (SB was his place in the past, was fine)
- 1 Courser of Kruphix (don't own one, maybe I should buy one and test it out since it often overperforms for you)
- 1-2 Siege Rhino (not sure about the right number. Maybe 4 is the way to go, but if the new green Gearhulk shines, you can cut at least one i guess)
- 1 Diabolic Intent (for those who like/ need it, keep it. I don't need the toolbox for now)

+1 Sakura Tribe Elder (replaces Deathrite and supports the overall ramp plan. I like him in his spot)
+1 Elspeth, Knight Errant (survives our mass removal and can close games really quick, plus good vs. Miracles)
+1 Pernicious Deed / Toxic Deluge (this may be too much, but I want to prioritize on destroying the opponents ambitions)
+1 Verdorous Gearhulk (needs to be tested, but he could be the beatdown creature we searched for)
+1 Tireless Tracker (this deck needs the card advantage, i fear 1 of them is not enough)

My choices are debateable, but at least in my meta ( I feel 2/3 decks are D&T, some Miracles, Combo and Eldrazi, rest Elves, Goblins, Bladedecks, Roguedecks) this seems very solid. As I said some things need to be tested (again). Echelons SB looks good, but everybody needs to tweak that on his own.

@ Echelon: I will try to squeeze in 1-2 Abrupt Decay nonetheless, testing will show. Also need to get a second Phyrexian Tower, but one will do for now. Perhaps I even cut Meren, as there were so many alternatives at her CMC and she doesn't contributes to the beatdown plan immediatly; I love her as a card, but she's more of a slow, controllish way to gain more and more card advantage.

How were the Path to Exile vs. D&T? Usually I don't like giving them extra lands for Port activations etc. Eventually going back to Swords to Plowshares for that matter..

And I'm curios how Lost Legacy performs in problematic matchups. No red needed for Slaughter Games anymore?

@ all: Potentially brewing on Junk Veteran Walkers. Nearly the same approach as above, but with more Planeswalkers that stabilze or win the game. Elspeth, Knight Errant, Garruk Relentless, Sorin Grim Nemesis, the new Nissa, Vital Force and others come to my mind. Any ideas on that? If testing shows noteworthy results, I'll let you guys know.

Cheers.

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First off: Thank you for the compliment. PtE was fine vs. D&T, just be tricky about it (as always). Didn't get to give Lost Legacy a field test yet, so can't say anything about that so far. Seeing the cuts you're planning to make, I do fear you're missing on some of the intricacies of the list and are misjudging the roles some of the cards fulfill. If anyone wants, I can go over them in detail (and include how removing certain cards affects them).

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Originally Posted by Ganfar

That is a good response.

But I would like to see a Mealstrom Pulse or Judgement in 75. I don't like any answered to Jace, The Mind other then cretures.

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Thank you. Yeah, it's a toughy. So much stuff I want to do, so few slots to do it with.

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Originally Posted by Echelon

Thank you. Yeah, it's a toughy. So much stuff I want to do, so few slots to do it with.

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Agree. All the cards have a role. The only card I can think to cut in main is a PtE to a Mealstrom Pulse.

Maybe take out one Lost Legacy for a Pulse in sideborad. It's not clear what is best here.

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Originally Posted by Zirath

Both lists aim to produce a semi-lock state while racing with a swarm plan. The first list is a little more reliable but the second list is more powerful.

I will eventually return to them but I have a bunch of stuff ahead in the queue before I can look at them (after EW probably).

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I like the second list but there's a few changes I would make. We're definitely thinking along the same lines of using Humans though. In my case it was more coincidental, I'm not sure about you but there's some good ones out there. I don't think Recruiter of the Guard is worth it though. I would definitely run Sin Collector over it.

I think that I would instead try to find something you can use as removal. I don't think Company is a good Legacy card. The baseline for 4 mana in this format is a 3 for 1 not a 2 for 1. You can get a 3 for 1 off of Ranger of Eos or Harmonize and neither puts the same deckbuilding restraints on you so you're able to play some actual removal, and other CA. Company means you're giving up Path, Painful Truths, Ranger, Sigarda, Top, and more. It's just not worth it when you can instead have all of the above.

Glad to see someone else trying the junk humans route though, I think there's some value to it.

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Originally Posted by Ganfar

But I would like to see a Mealstrom Pulse or Judgement in 75. I don't like any answered to Jace, The Mind other then cretures.

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Sylvan Safekeeper is one of the best creature answers you can have to Jace. It completely blanks his -1 for your entire board and unlike Thrun or Sigarda, is trivial to cast.

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Originally Posted by Brael

Sylvan Safekeeper is one of the best creature answers you can have to Jace. It completely blanks his -1 for your entire board and unlike Thrun or Sigarda, is trivial to cast.

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When you have a empty borad and they play Jace, it will be really hard to stop Jace. Terminus can still save Jace from cretures.

I would at least one direct answer for Jace: The mind or other big things.

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Originally Posted by Ganfar

When you have a empty borad and they play Jace, it will be really hard to stop Jace. Terminus can still save Jace from cretures.

I would at least one direct answer for Jace: The mind or other big things.

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Safekeeper + Teeg, both sides can be GSZ'ed, they blank a Jace and stop a Terminus.

The best way to beat JTMS though is to have a strong card advantage engine of your own. Especially against Miracles, CA is their big weakness. This isn't a deck that gets its wins from being reactive.

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Originally Posted by Brael

Safekeeper + Teeg, both sides can be GSZ'ed, they blank a Jace and stop a Terminus.

The best way to beat JTMS though is to have a strong card advantage engine of your own. Especially against Miracles, CA is their big weakness.

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When does Teeg come in? I've only just picked up Nic Fit (but it's a deck I'm set on tweaking and adjusting until I get it more to my liking). I brought it in the other night against Stoneblade, since it turned off Batterskull and Force but I'm not sure if that's right.

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Originally Posted by truthfulcake

When does Teeg come in? I've only just picked up Nic Fit (but it's a deck I'm set on tweaking and adjusting until I get it more to my liking). I brought it in the other night against Stoneblade, since it turned off Batterskull and Force but I'm not sure if that's right.

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I don't run him, lots do though against Miracles. He shuts off basically their entire deck other than Swords and Counterbalance/Top.

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Originally Posted by Ralf

-- Off Thread --

If you want some ideas, click here.

I've written a "not so bad" primer about "Human Squad" in Legacy.

I've jammed the list during two trial events.
I ended up 4-2 on Friday and 3-2 on Sunday.

The list is up-to-date in my signature, though.

If you don't understand "French", try to translate it.
If you have any questions, feel free to PM me.

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While I appreciate the guidance, that list is a very different direction than where I am trying to go. I am very familiar with the Humans Stompy in Vintage and I am not pursuing that because I believe that there are Nic Fit builds that don't revolve around Deed that I want to explore more.

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Originally Posted by Brael

I like the second list but there's a few changes I would make. We're definitely thinking along the same lines of using Humans though. In my case it was more coincidental, I'm not sure about you but there's some good ones out there. I don't think Recruiter of the Guard is worth it though. I would definitely run Sin Collector over it.

I think that I would instead try to find something you can use as removal. I don't think Company is a good Legacy card. The baseline for 4 mana in this format is a 3 for 1 not a 2 for 1. You can get a 3 for 1 off of Ranger of Eos or Harmonize and neither puts the same deckbuilding restraints on you so you're able to play some actual removal, and other CA. Company means you're giving up Path, Painful Truths, Ranger, Sigarda, Top, and more. It's just not worth it when you can instead have all of the above.

Glad to see someone else trying the junk humans route though, I think there's some value to it.

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I have been unsure about Recruiter to begin with. He hasn't really been very impressive in general. Sin Collector is a card I wish wasn't 3 mana. It's probably too narrow. And in the context of analyzing the need for Company, it is one of the first cards we cut.

I really want Company to work (it's just a card I love) but I know your point. The main issue I've been having is either I can't get going fast enough or the lock is too fragile and get broken up before I can control the board. The issue on the other side is that a lot of those other cards don't solve the problems I have been experiencing. There is a lot of power behind putting out two lords from an empty hand.

Both of these lists were primarily theory crafted and I didn't get to test them as much as I wanted. That being said, if I were to make changes based on comments and my analysis, I would probably start here:

4 Veteran Explorer
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Dark Confidant
4 Mayor of Avabruck
4 Thalia's Lieutenant
4 Tireless Tracker
4 Sanctum Prelate

4 Cabal Therapy
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Path to Exile
2 Sylvan Library

3 Windswept Heath
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Marsh Flats
2 Forest
2 Plains
1 Swamp
2 Bayou
2 Savannah
2 Scrubland
3 Cavern of Souls

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Originally Posted by truthfulcake

When does Teeg come in? I've only just picked up Nic Fit (but it's a deck I'm set on tweaking and adjusting until I get it more to my liking). I brought it in the other night against Stoneblade, since it turned off Batterskull and Force but I'm not sure if that's right.

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Teeg is at its best vs Storm combo. It also works against SneakShow, Aluren, Natural Order, Belcher, MonoRedSneak, Tezzeret.
Teeg also blocks Jace, Terminus, Entreat and Nahiri, but Miracles doesn't have to hard time to remove Teeg.
I wouldn't bother to board Teeg vs FoW and Batterskull is dropped thru Teeg with SFM obviously. On top of that, the question is, will Teeg shut your own GSZ or Walker down. Against storm or other combo thats fine, but against fair decks it is not.

@truthfulcake: What everybody else said. Besides, Stoneblade is a pretty good MU, why clip your own wings by disabling GSZ?

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Originally Posted by Brael

Safekeeper + Teeg, both sides can be GSZ'ed, they blank a Jace and stop a Terminus.

The best way to beat JTMS though is to have a strong card advantage engine of your own. Especially against Miracles, CA is their big weakness. This isn't a deck that gets its wins from being reactive.

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Yes, you can make a set-up to stop to Jace and Terminus. They are not only cards.

Anyhow, I like at least in 75 that can take care something non-creture 4 drop.

@Bobsman: I think I have ask this before but how weel have Nissa been to you? http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/rhinos-abbondanza/

Flippa has been a solid lategame card. On top of that, i really like the flavor of this planeswalker.
If all it is another angle of CA just as Tracker and Courser are.
The pro is that it can provide a 4/4 beater while walling and generating CA (Tracker does both offcourse).
The con is that the card is weak during early game.
Having 7 basics in your deck is impotant to consitently flip it when you drop the card.
Especially next to SDT this card enables several little interactions. Shuffle, filter. I even used it to turn GSZ into a double shuffle to activate SDT twice searching for a non creature answer.
The ultimate was never relevant, if flippa sticks, your probably already winning.
Flippa is a gadget, i like gadgets.
Just like Courser it does not solve problems, it simply helps getting a more solid boardstate.

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G900F met Tapatalk

Courser singlehandedly solves Burn.dec, you silly goose. Stops their board presence dead in its tracks and gives you valuable life.

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Originally Posted by Echelon

Courser singlehandedly solves Burn.dec, you silly goose. Stops their board presence dead in its tracks and gives you valuable life.

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I don't think so.
Courser is unfortunately too slow compared to their standard velocity.

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Originally Posted by Ralf

I don't think so.
Courser is unfortunately too slow compared to their standard velocity.

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It can at least slow down the burn deck, better then other cards.

Couser are a bit better then Nissa, I think. It's better in early game and we already have cards that are good in the end good already.

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Originally Posted by Ralf

I don't think so.
Courser is unfortunately too slow compared to their standard velocity.

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I don't agree, and them neither it seems..
They usually kill it ASAP, spending 2 spells or a fireblast on it.

Besides, it can hit the field as early as T2.

I have the feeling that most of you cut painful truths from the list, correct?
is it the lost life you are struggling with? honestly speaking I have problems when to play the card.
drawing three cards is of course awesome but in the early game I have the feeling I want/have to do other things and late game the life total matters.

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Originally Posted by Echelon

Besides, it can hit the field as early as T2.

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Can =/= will.

I agree with Ralf. While it's nice to have, Courser doesn't single handedly solve the burn matchup at all, you need something a lot more impactful. Besides, burn isn't a huge player these days anyway so it doesn't seem like a very good reason to keep Courser in.

@Dissection: I was mostly making a silly jab at Bobmans. Ralf just happens to hate the card. We've had this discussion before, there's no need to do it again.

@Cherson: For me, it was opportunity cost. 3 mana is a lot. For that mana I can also get a GSZ'able CA engine on legs.

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Originally Posted by Echelon

Ralf just happens to hate the card. We've had this discussion before, there's no need to do it again.

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No, I don't.

It has some merits with SDT that I will not deny.
Nevertheless, I'm usually quite reluctant to spend a GSZ for it, when I play it.

And I don't remember having that discussion with you.

Nevertheless, I talked here about Courser a long time ago.

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Originally Posted by Ralf

No, I don't.

It has some merits with SDT that I will not deny.
Nevertheless, I'm usually quite reluctant to spend a GSZ for it, when I play it.

And I don't remember having that discussion with you.

Nevertheless, I talked here about Courser a long time ago.

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It was quite some time ago :wink:. Or it was with someone else. Anyways, who cares.

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Originally Posted by Echelon

Anyways, who cares.

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People that play the deck, I guess.

I tried Courser in multiple Nic Fit builds when it was released and it always underperformed, even with Library or SDT. In theory it's a nice card, but in practice all the things it does are too marginal for the format. Now that Tracker has joined the party it's even less needed.

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Originally Posted by Bobmans

Teeg is at its best vs Storm combo. It also works against SneakShow, Aluren, Natural Order, Belcher, MonoRedSneak, Tezzeret.
Teeg also blocks Jace, Terminus, Entreat and Nahiri, but Miracles doesn't have to hard time to remove Teeg.
I wouldn't bother to board Teeg vs FoW and Batterskull is dropped thru Teeg with SFM obviously. On top of that, the question is, will Teeg shut your own GSZ or Walker down. Against storm or other combo thats fine, but against fair decks it is not.

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Is it worth keeping in the Eidolon Cycle in the board in addition to Teeg then? I've currently trimmed down the Draw and Spell ones. My sideboard feels a little all over the joint at the moment, still throwing things in to see what sticks.

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Originally Posted by Echelon

@truthfulcake: What everybody else said. Besides, Stoneblade is a pretty good MU, why clip your own wings by disabling GSZ?

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True enough, I wasn't sure what to bring in against Stoneblade (Besides Golgari Charm and Pithing Needle).

I'm currently tweaking my wincons and CA engines at the moment- currently on Sun Titan (Which may become a Grave Titan when I actually get one), Sigarda, two Rhinos, Anafenza, Thragtusk, a SFM and a Batterskull and a Baneslayer for wincons (Baneslayer is more a personal favorite at this stage though). CA engines are flip nissa (Who has been amazing) and Tireless Tracker (Which does pretty well, as expected).

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Originally Posted by Dissection

People that play the deck, I guess.

I tried Courser in multiple Nic Fit builds when it was released and it always underperformed, even with Library or SDT. In theory it's a nice card, but in practice all the things it does are too marginal for the format. Now that Tracker has joined the party it's even less needed.

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There's some good Dryad Arbor/Courser tricks out there, but I don't like that in my build it's not a human. I'm considering replacing Courser with Knight of the Reliquary, it has a good interaction with Top although not as strong, it helps solve the problem of having large bodies, it's strong on it's own with the ability to tutor lands like Volrath's, and it has a great interaction with Tracker.

The argument against this basically comes down to lifegain, I don't have much in my build and Courser goes a long way towards helping stabilize a drawn out game.

Im running 3 Top, 1 Tracker, 2 Truths, 2 Sylvan
Love it.

As some of you asked, I reworked my old SFM list and here it is:


SFM Fist by Ralf

1 Dryad Arbor
1 Veteran Explorer
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons

4 Abrupt Decay
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Swords To Plowshares

3 Lingering Souls
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith

1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Batterskull

2 Sylvan Library

1 Nissa, Voice of Zendikar
3 Liliana of the Veil

4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
2 Marsh Flats
2 Bayou
2 Scrubland
1 Savannah
2 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Plains

Sideboard

2 Swords to Plowshares
2 Surgical Extraction
3 Thoughtseize
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Zealous Persecution
1 Toxic Deluge
2 Pithing Needle
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Choke

And a few comments:
1) I've been really impressed by Nissa. She is gonna stick for a while in my Nic Fit builds. Not to mention potential collateral damages with Lingering Souls...
2) LotV is back. Lingering souls is at Junk what punishing fire is at Jund. It breaks her symmetry. Period
3) DRS > Vet, here. Haters gonna hate it.
4) No Pernicious Deed, obviously obvious with such a "ramp" setup.
5) Dryad is there. GSZ @ 0 and turn every fetch into a potential equipment carrier all day / every day.
6) I'll keep testing with Blessed Alliance. The card has been very good in testing even if it costs 1 more mana compared to STP/PTE. The modal clause really is making up for it.
7) Full SFM package for immediate pressure and virtual CA. Turn "on" every late squirrel into a must answer.

The deck is still "raw", the CMC-3 slot feels sometimes a bit clogged but this is the price to pay for maximum velocity (T1 DRS into T2 CMC 3 is definitely broken).

Enjoy.

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Originally Posted by Ralf

As some of you asked, I reworked my old SFM list and here it is:

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I like the build, have you found yourself running out of action in the mid to late game? That's one of the issues I've seen with a higher velocity is that you need a way to keep fuel in your hand, otherwise you peter out after a few turns. LotV seems to me like she would only make this problem worse.

Also, what's your usual Library play? Have you considered Dark Confidant instead? It's still extra cards but more along the lines of 1-2 life per turn rather than 4 and it can hit the opponent.

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Originally Posted by Brael

I like the build, have you found yourself running out of action in the mid to late game? That's one of the issues I've seen with a higher velocity is that you need a way to keep fuel in your hand, otherwise you peter out after a few turns. LotV seems to me like she would only make this problem worse.

Also, what's your usual Library play? Have you considered Dark Confidant instead? It's still extra cards but more along the lines of 1-2 life per turn rather than 4 and it can hit the opponent.

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1) Lingering Souls & Sylvan library are covering up Liliana's symmetry. The goal, here, is to put you and your opponent into a top deck war where you should definitely dig from your hole faster than him. Courser has also proven to be very interesting in such wars. I'm still assessing whether we should be playing some SDT or not. I do like very much the synergy between SDT & Liliana. But, I also like naming SDT with pithing needle after board against Miracle.

2) Main Deck, I still prefer Library to Dark Confidant. It is harder to remove and you definitely control the way you lose life. Nevertheless, I have aforementioned, a week ago, the possibility to try an eva green/pikula kind of sideboard plan. The idea would obviously be to play between 3 to 4 Dark Confidant, 1 or 2 beater (Goyf / you name it), 5 to 6 discards spells (3 TS 2 Tourach) and go "yolo" against combo and slower control decks.
Unfortunately, this would have a "cost" because you would cover the rest of Legacy's world with only 3 to 5 cards left in your sideboard.

To sum it up, the idea exists but needs testing.

Again, the proposed list is far from being fully fine tuned (20 or 21 lands is the real deal, here not counting DA), it was more of an update from my older SFM list.
Nevertheless, the grind is very real and Liliana, singlehandely, makes our G1 against control and combo winnable.

This build is tailor made for big tournaments because:
- you will have free wins (for your sanity) because a T2 SFM into BSK is unanswered.
- combo decks are winnable G1 on the back of Liliana. It is even better post side.

As for the fun factor: Who has never won a game with a BSK + SOFI Sigarda ? That feeling is great...

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Originally Posted by Ralf

2) Main Deck, I still prefer Library to Dark Confidant. It is harder to remove and you definitely control the way you lose life.

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It's actually a positive rather than a negative that Bob can be removed more easily. Any removal spell aimed at Bob is a removal spell not aimed at your threats. Plus, he's pretty easy to stick if you have more threats than the opponent has answers.

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The idea would obviously be to play between 3 to 4 Dark Confidant, 1 or 2 beater (Goyf / you name it), 5 to 6 discards spells (3 TS 2 Tourach) and go "yolo" against combo and slower control decks.

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That's not really all that different from what I'm doing now. It works well and doesn't actually take as many SB slots as you would think.

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Originally Posted by Dissection

People that play the deck, I guess.

I tried Courser in multiple Nic Fit builds when it was released and it always underperformed, even with Library or SDT. In theory it's a nice card, but in practice all the things it does are too marginal for the format. Now that Tracker has joined the party it's even less needed.

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The "who cares" had nothing to do with your post, but that's fine. I guess we're doing this then. Alrighty.

I like that it smooths out my draws, clearing away topdeck lands so I'm more likely to draw into gas w/ my next drawstep, @0 extra expense. It also bogs down the field nicely vs. little stuff that'd normally be pecking away at our life total. 4 toughness is a lot for 3 mana.

@matt: That's an impressive CA suite. I'm thinking about getting 2 Sylvans myself. That'd put me @3 Tops, 2 Sylvan, 1 Tracker & 1 Courser. I'm going to have a hell of a time finding what to cut though. Most likely the top end CMC flex slot and mayhaps Scavenging Ooze (although I love that card to death).

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Originally Posted by sdematt

Im running 3 Top, 1 Tracker, 2 Truths, 2 Sylvan
Love it.

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Sometimes when I have played nic-fit, I don't feel I got any CD.

Running 2 Truths and 2 Sylvan in main can be good. Can I see your decklist please?

matt's list is on page 361.

Ill post an updated list tomorrow. Minor changes to squeeze the third Top back in.

I'm really not a fan of double Sylvan Library, you want to diversify your card advantage/filtering if the ones chosen get worse in multiples. At Least SDT can save itself from a Deed, double Library and double Deed together is just asking for trouble.

What are you a fan of?

Surprise us w/ a list. Preferably Junk Fit.

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Originally Posted by Dissection

I'm really not a fan of double Sylvan Library, you want to diversify your card advantage/filtering if the ones chosen get worse in multiples. At Least SDT can save itself from a Deed, double Library and double Deed together is just asking for trouble.

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It doesn't really matter if Library gets blown up off a Deed. Ideally you'll have already gotten your cards out of it. You can only reasonably take up to 4 cards off Library, and depending on the pressure you're facing, even less than that. After that it's just rearranging them which Top does too. Library is a great card to diversify your CA. It actually helps the CA plan to have low numbers of a large variety of different ways to generate CA because it's harder to shut down and sometimes the different CA mechanisms work together.

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Edit: Have a weekly league match coming up against W/B Pox, there's nothing too strange in it other than 4x Chains of Mephilstoles. Does anyone have some tips? I'm pretty confident in the match between my CA, recursion, and GY hate, but I don't want to make a stupid mistake since it's something I've never played against before using Nic Fit.

My big question comes down to Therapy. What should I call? I can see merit depending on the list and my hand to naming Smallpox or Hymn. Thoughts on naming Sinkhole? Any tips against Chains?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Brael

My big question comes down to Therapy. What should I call? I can see merit depending on the list and my hand to naming Smallpox or Hymn. Thoughts on naming Sinkhole?

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Name Hymn first I think. Pox is a 2-for-1 in your favor (they play the card, then discard another card), and the deck doesn't have many ways of generating card advantage. Hymn puts them ahead on cards, Pox puts them back on cards.

I'm not sure how good Sinkhole is against nic fit, since the deck ends up with a lot of lands quickly, which kinda mitigates that.