[Deck] Goblins

You can also use them to shrink goyfs and and geese, but 5-6 is a bit too much. I think 4 is enough for specific GY hate, personally I prefer 2 Grafdigger's and 2 Relics. An early resolved Graf can buy us enough time against reanimator. Never really had a problem getting them in a 2-2 split.

My question is, in a UW Miracle infested meta, do we necessarily need to put 3-4 Sulfuric Vortex? My problem with this is that I can't really find any other relevant deck to side in vortex, which messes up our SBing goal, which is versatility. With that, I think that 4 CotV is king.

So the sideboard dilemma looks like this:

4 Chalice of the Void
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Relic of Progenitus
3 Pyrokinesis
X REB / Pyroblast
X Sulfuric Vortex

Any other suggestions? Is Surgical Extraction really good?

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Originally Posted by Final Fortune

If you're not playing 4 Leyline of the Void or a 3/3 split of Surgical Extraction and Tormod's Crypt you punt the entire matchup, especially if you're not playing with 4 Mogg Fanatic vs Dredge.

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Ok, I agree with you... But this isn't what i asked...

I'm just asking if you side in GYhate in other MU than Reanimator and Ichorid.

Italian metagame isn't full of Ichorid at all and Reanimator is a small part of the meta...

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Originally Posted by Lord Gibbo

Ok, I agree with you... But this isn't what i asked...

I'm just asking if you side in GYhate in other MU than Reanimator and Ichorid.

Italian metagame isn't full of Ichorid at all and Reanimator is a small part of the meta...

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GY hate (mostly Relic) is sometimes useful vs. RUG/Canadian and other goyf decks (Maverick, BUG etc.)...it really depends though. Keeping RUG off of threshold and/or using Wasteland + Surgical extraction on one of their colors will help with the match some, but it's not super necessary for us to win.

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Originally Posted by Davran

GY hate (mostly Relic) is sometimes useful vs. RUG/Canadian and other goyf decks (Maverick, BUG etc.)...it really depends though. Keeping RUG off of threshold and/or using Wasteland + Surgical extraction on one of their colors will help with the match some, but it's not super necessary for us to win.

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I'm playing this sb right now:

2 F macabre
2 surgical extraction
3 Pyrokinesis
3 torn of ametist (not shure on this)
3 REB
2 Ancient grudge

VS Maverik I side in 3 pyrokinesis and 1/2 ancient grudge
VS Canadian: 1/2 surgical and 2 Pyrokinesis

Do you think Relic will be better than this card?
If it is, probably, I can run 2 relic and cut 2 Grudge...

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Originally Posted by Lord Gibbo

I'm playing this sb right now:

2 F macabre
2 surgical extraction
3 Pyrokinesis
3 torn of ametist (not shure on this)
3 REB
2 Ancient grudge

VS Maverik I side in 3 pyrokinesis and 1/2 ancient grudge
VS Canadian: 1/2 surgical and 2 Pyrokinesis

Do you think Relic will be better than this card?
If it is, probably, I can run 2 relic and cut 2 Grudge...

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I think Surgical is better vs. RUG than Relic, but I haven't had any opportunity to test that theory (I don't own any Surgical). Ideally, you'll be able to Wasteland + Surgical to keep them off of a color, or somehow deal with a Goyf and remove the rest.

I don't really like Ancient Grudge in goblins. If you're in need of one, you can't go grab it with matron. If you're not in need of one, it sits in your hand or gets buried via Ringleader. Assuming that you're splashing green for the flashback (I didn't go back and look for your list), try out Tin Street Hooligan. It's both fetchable and can attack/block when needed.

As for your plan vs. Maverick, that seems fine. Depending on my mood, I might put one or two Relic in vs. them, but it doesn't happen very often.

Thorn of Amethyst is fine as combo hate. It's better vs. Hive Mind and Hypergenesis than Chalice, and it has some uses vs. decks like Burn. In my mind, the hierarchy is something like this:

Chalice > Thorn > Mindbreak Trap/Surgical > Pyrostatic Pillar

For reference, my board looks like this right now:

4x Chalice of the Void (Burn/Storm/Elves)
3x Relic of Progenitus (Dredge/Reanimator/RUG)
2x Shattering Spree (Affinity/Maverick/Stoneblade)
2x Pithing Needle (Miracle/BUG/Stoneblade/Many others)
2x Anarchy (Miracle/Maverick/Enchantress)
1x Goblin Sharpshooter (Storm/Belcher/Elves/UWb Blade)
1x Boartusk Liege (BUG/Pox/Black Decks) - I'm expecting Engineered Plague to be more popular.

Note that I run 2x Pyrokinesis in the main deck which helped to free up some slots in the board.

has anyone tested against the new omni-tell combo decks? how do we fare against them?

Poorly... If they resolve Omniscience then we've lost (kinda like Hive Mind). If they go for a fattie (Emrakul, the Aeons Torn or Griselbrand) then we have a chance to Sting them away.

If you are running Chalice for Combo, don't you want to bring it in against rug as well. It shuts off most of their burn, their mongeese, delvers, grim lavamancers, cantrips, ect. It leaves them with Goyf, Daze, Force and maybe fire/ice if they run it (rare).

As a RUG player, I would be 1000x more afraid of Chalice for 1 than a Relic. For Relic to be really backbreaking against RUG, you need to have it on turn 1, or you need 2 of them. And even then, if I have a hand with Delvers and Goyfs instead of mongeese, I still might not be afraid of it.

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Originally Posted by that0neguy

If you are running Chalice for Combo, don't you want to bring it in against rug as well. It shuts off most of their burn, their mongeese, delvers, grim lavamancers, cantrips, ect. It leaves them with Goyf, Daze, Force and maybe fire/ice if they run it (rare).

As a RUG player, I would be 1000x more afraid of Chalice for 1 than a Relic. For Relic to be really backbreaking against RUG, you need to have it on turn 1, or you need 2 of them. And even then, if I have a hand with Delvers and Goyfs instead of mongeese, I still might not be afraid of it.

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Relic T1 is a bad play. It will just be countered, Grudged, or Stifled. If you want to get value out of a Relic you need to turn a bunch of guys sideways, draw out some chump blocks, then cast and pop relic post-combat to wipe their board.

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Originally Posted by Lord Gibbo

Why 5-6 GY in your sidebord?
In Which MU you side in so much GY? (Obviously VS Reanimator and Ichorid... But is your meta so full of this decks?)
I realy don't know... Italian Metagame is problably a bit different...

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It's not so much that they are a massive part of the metagame, as that we auto-lose to them otherwise.

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Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew

Poorly... If they resolve Omniscience then we've lost (kinda like Hive Mind). If they go for a fattie (Emrakul, the Aeons Torn or Griselbrand) then we have a chance to Sting them away.

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so other than bounce an academy rector as it sits on the opposing side of the board, theres nothing else we can do right? When the rector dies Omniscience appears and we're dead?

That really sucks.

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Originally Posted by movingtonewao

so other than bounce an academy rector as it sits on the opposing side of the board, theres nothing else we can do right? When the rector dies Omniscience appears and we're dead?

That really sucks.

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You can use most forms of graveyard hate to remove the Academy Rector in response to the trigger. It has to be a replacement effect (Leyline, Wheel) or instant-speed removal though (Crypt, Ooze, Macabre, Extraction, etc.).

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Originally Posted by jrw1985

Relic T1 is a bad play. It will just be countered, Grudged, or Stifled. If you want to get value out of a Relic you need to turn a bunch of guys sideways, draw out some chump blocks, then cast and pop relic post-combat to wipe their board.

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In addition exposing it to Daze, which should never counter it, as well as prioritizing it above Lackey or Vial is a mistake.

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Originally Posted by Davran

For reference, my board looks like this right now:

4x Chalice of the Void (Burn/Storm/Elves)
3x Relic of Progenitus (Dredge/Reanimator/RUG)
2x Shattering Spree (Affinity/Maverick/Stoneblade)
2x Pithing Needle (Miracle/BUG/Stoneblade/Many others)
2x Anarchy (Miracle/Maverick/Enchantress)
1x Goblin Sharpshooter (Storm/Belcher/Elves/UWb Blade)
1x Boartusk Liege (BUG/Pox/Black Decks) - I'm expecting Engineered Plague to be more popular.

Note that I run 2x Pyrokinesis in the main deck which helped to free up some slots in the board.

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The boardstuck liege is only for the +1/+1 I guess?
Why not then putting a Chieftain, it will give also haste to your goblins and costs 1 mana less.

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Originally Posted by that0neguy

If you are running Chalice for Combo, don't you want to bring it in against rug as well. It shuts off most of their burn, their mongeese, delvers, grim lavamancers, cantrips, ect. It leaves them with Goyf, Daze, Force and maybe fire/ice if they run it (rare).

As a RUG player, I would be 1000x more afraid of Chalice for 1 than a Relic. For Relic to be really backbreaking against RUG, you need to have it on turn 1, or you need 2 of them. And even then, if I have a hand with Delvers and Goyfs instead of mongeese, I still might not be afraid of it.

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I agree with you.
Chalice is one of the best against RUG. I usually side against this match-up my 3 Chalices and my 2 REBs.
Of course, don't be too greedy and cast it on turn 3 in case they hold a daze in hand! (And if you have REB you can counter their FoW!).

I don't think Chalice of the Void is as good as advertised against RUG Delver.

For one thing, they have to many efficient counters that can stop it resolving. Also, a chalice on 1 also negates one of, if not the best, card you can play against them: Aether Vial.

As a rule of thumb, I normally side out Aether Vial against matchups in which I side in Chalice of the Void, and even then not all of them, two at most. Against Elves or Burn Vial itself doesn't do nearly as much as a resolved chalice and on it's own it can be quite poor against those decks, even on turn one, since they are faster then you are.

Against RUG, however, there is probably no other card you would care more about resolving. That's why I don't see the point in sideing in a card that makes our strongest card in that matchup worse.

fellow warchiefs,

- supposing we have 5 ways to go, which are: the way of the Mountain, of the Taiga, of the Plateau, of the Volcanic Island and of the Badlands,

- someone previously provoked a discussion about the blue splash, and today it just came to my mind that maybe we should be aiming at Vapor Snag as the blue card of choice, over Spell Pierce or Brainstorm, which were previously considered.

- yeah, I know it makes our ringleaders worse, and I know it can be countered. ignore that, for a while, please, because every no-goblin and every no-creature we decide to test will have those drawbacks. I'm just wondering if that improves any matchup better than the cards considered.

- besides that specific point, I'm trying to come up with ideas for creatures in each and every path, since caverns and vials makes them much more reliable than normal spells (yeah, it still makes our ringleaders worse, but...)

- I already bought myself some Rishadan Ports (the 6th way? lol), but as I'm also investing on my duals, I want to have my packages well planned.



When you play goblins the first time on a scene, nobody knows you're a goblin. When you come back next time, wouldn't you want to be playing a different tuned deck? A different splash? A different way?

thoughts?

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Originally Posted by jrw1985

Relic T1 is a bad play. It will just be countered, Grudged, or Stifled. If you want to get value out of a Relic you need to turn a bunch of guys sideways, draw out some chump blocks, then cast and pop relic post-combat to wipe their board.

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Definitely agree here. Playing around Daze is a pretty solid strategy in this match up.

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Originally Posted by LPEuler

The boardstuck liege is only for the +1/+1 I guess?
Why not then putting a Chieftain, it will give also haste to your goblins and costs 1 mana less.

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I run Chieftain over Warchief in the main. Chieftain is all well and good, but Boartusk is the only creature we have access to that is capable of surviving double plague. I prefer to have the out if needed rather than auto-losing to plague.

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Originally Posted by Annatar

I don't think Chalice of the Void is as good as advertised against RUG Delver.

For one thing, they have to many efficient counters that can stop it resolving. Also, a chalice on 1 also negates one of, if not the best, card you can play against them: Aether Vial.

As a rule of thumb, I normally side out Aether Vial against matchups in which I side in Chalice of the Void, and even then not all of them, two at most. Against Elves or Burn Vial itself doesn't do nearly as much as a resolved chalice and on it's own it can be quite poor against those decks, even on turn one, since they are faster then you are.

Against RUG, however, there is probably no other card you would care more about resolving. That's why I don't see the point in sideing in a card that makes our strongest card in that matchup worse.

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Your logic about Chalice of the Void and siding out Vial is flawed. You should play both cards together. Aether Vial is really only great if you have it early and are casting it during the first two turns. Resolving a Vial later in the game is not a lot of help, as it will likely be too slow. You typically want to cast a Vial or Lackey on turn one (and you will mulligan most hands that don't include one of those two spells). Then you can drop your Chalice@1 on turn two. If you have more than one Vial/Lackey, you have the option of droping the extra(s) on turn two and save Chalice for turn three. Also, there are some matchups that you will want to side in Chalice to set it at zero, before one, so it doesn't conflict with your one-drops.

Although it is true that Vial is not great against fast combo decks, players should be careful about siding it out. You should think of Vial as a mana source (and mana accelerator) rather than a normal spell. It acts as a busted Sol Ring for this deck. If you board out Vials, you increase your chances of losing to mana screw.

Played last night, went 2-1-1
Pox 2-0
Dredge 1-2
RUG Delver 1-1-1
RUG Delver 2-0

It felt good. I actually won G1 against Dredge, but mulled into a hand without hate G2 and a hand with hate but no gas G3. When playing against Dredge it is incredibly important that you actually have a playable hand against them. You can't just drop hate and hope they fizzle. you need to back up your hate with some game.
The RUG matches felt really good. I actually won G1 in R3, but I lost G2 because I kept a hand with excellent hate (Extraction + Wasteland took all his Tropicals T1), but it didn't have enough game to answer the resolved Delver that flipped and beat me down. I couldn't believe I lost that game.

Local tourney with about 28 people attending. Went 2-3 with the following list.

6 Mountain
4 Wasteland
4 Cavern of Souls
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Arid Mesa
2 Taiga
2 Badlands

4 AEther Vial

4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Gempalm Incinerator
3 Mogg War Marshal
1 Goblin Chieftain
1 Skirk Prospector
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Stingscourger
1 Tin Street Hooligan
1 Krenko, Mob Boss
1 Wort, Boggart Auntie

4 Leyline of the Void
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Red Elemental Blasts
2 Pyrokensis
1 Tin Street Hooligan
1 Stingscourger

Report:

I lost a random janky Infect/Poison deck! He used a 2/2 dude with pro red and white. Despite Pyrokenesis on his weenies in one game and Sharpshooter in another, he double Invigorated the pro red dude and I lost games 1 and 3. I hang my head in shame. How can I stop pro red creatures?? 1-2

I beat a Stoneblade deck. Turn 1 Lackey kept me on the offensive. I Hooliganed his Jitte, and he got got a chance to get rolling. 2-0

I lost a a random G/R/W deck centered around Noble Heriarchs, Oozes, Goyfs, Natactls, Esperth, Maze of Ith and a butt load of burn. He's burn my Warchiefs/Lackeys and swing with 3/3 or larger creatures forcing me to chump. Once he dropped a Jitte or Swords of Fire and Ice it was game over. Pyrokensis did me no good. 1-2

Beat a Threshold deck. He stomped on me game one with Geese and Goyfs. I think he got every counter in his opening hand. Second game I got Chalice a 1 for game. Game three he got land screwed and my Wastes made sure it stayed that way. On a side note I started the game with 3 Caverns and 3 lackeys in my hand. :D 2-1

I lost to a strange B/G/W deck. It seems like he took every good card and through it in a deck. Cliques, Goyfs, Snapcaster, Jace. Game 1 he counters and Mazes me and swings with massive Goyfs. Game 2 I just pound face and he can't find answers. Game 3 I REB his Jace and Ancestral Visions...then he draws into 2 massive Goyfs, Cliques a Ringleader and I lose. 1-2

I'm not sure why I didn't do so well. I didn't think I'd run into as many creatures as I did. 2 Pyrokenesis int he SB wasn't enough. What else can gobbos use for mass removal? Perish only works against Green....


Even though people said not to play Wort I gave her a go. She only hit the table once, I got a Gempalm back then she was Swords'd. If she sticks around she can be an abolsute beast. Better than a SCG or 2nd Krenko?

Despite the somewhat strange lands, I never had a problem casting any goblins I needed. Splashing two colors if we choose is VERY doable.