[Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)

Finally got some free time at a computer again! Greetings all!

Several things to discuss here:

Not a whole lot to report from GP Denver. Started off 5-0, needed to win one of three rounds to day 2 and got paired against mono-combo opponents that rip like a boss. Disappointing to say the least, but shit happens. Missed day 2 but was incredibly impressed with the list. Played P-Fire Nic Fit cuz it's an absolute house right now. Here's the list I've been working on for the last few months:

Punishing Fire Nic Fit (60):

Lands (23):
1 Badlands
2 Bayou
3 Forest
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Kessig Wolf Run
2 Mountain
1 Phyrexian Tower
2 Swamp
1 Taiga
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Wooded Foothills

Creatures (14):
1 Broodmate Dragon
1 Deathrite Shaman
2 Eternal Witness
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Primeval Titan
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Thragtusk
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
4 Veteran Explorer

Other (23):
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Pernicious Deed
4 Punishing Fire
1 Recurring Nightmare
3 Sensei's Divining Top

Sideboard (15):
3 Carpet of Flowers
1 Damnation
2 Red Elemental Blast
3 Slaughter Games
2 Surgical Extraction
4 Thoughtseize

To those of you interested in this version, I encourage you to play Kessig Wolf Run. It's not cute, it kills people. If you've never Wolf Runned a Thrun, you're missing out. Also, I'm pretty convinced that Huntmaster of the Fells is one of the best creatures you can be casting in Legacy at the moment. He's an absolute monster that many decks have a problem dealing with profitably.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by slikwilly

3) Not being able to Recycle against The Rock really sucks. The ability Hymn (or Lili + Thoughtseize) basically means you can't play it. (And getting Hymned to take Blessing + Rector and leaving Recycle in your hand is the worst feeling ever). Thinking about adding Oracle of Mul Daya. It's Zenithable, which is good, is a partial solution to the problem, and seems pretty damn awesome w/ Recycle anyway. And of course no Recycle w/o an active Top to get you around the discard problem.

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Quick note -- you can definitely Recycle vs Rock. Just be smart about it, and don't try to Recycle without a Top in play and/or a Therapy in your graveyard. There's also nothing wrong with Rectoring it out, drawing a bunch of cards with it, then Pulse/Vindicate/Deeding it away when you're done, if you don't feel safe.

For the BUG deck (that interesting chronofit variation), would you want to have the newly spoilered Realmwright in there? (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showt...00#post9636400). I thinkl that he is cute and flashy, but that mana fixing that he provides would be interesting and help support the jace manabase.

Long time lurker sharing his first run at Nic Fit.


4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Diabolic Intent
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Innocent Blood
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Pernicious Deed
2 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Sylvan Library
3 Thoughtseize

4 Veteran Explorer
3 Deathrite Shaman
2 Eternal Witness
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Thragtusk
1 Grave Titan

1 Dryad Arbor
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
3 Bayou
6 Forest
3 Swamp
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Phyrexian Tower

Potential Sideboard:
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Crop Rotation
1 Karakas
1 Bojuka Bog
3 Kitchen Finks
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Tajuru Preserver
1 Chameleon Colossus
3 Memoricide
1 Necroplasm


I know everyone is on the exciting GBR Scapewish... or Junk colored with Rector for Moat... however I just started getting into legacy and have... limited access... to some of those pieces. With the high volume of unfair decks I love having access to extra disruption so I built GB.

I'd love some thoughts/feedback/criticism. I tried to keep the creatures all GSZ targets excepting Grave Titan which I know is kind of a throwback.

I *could* access some white cards because I have Scrublands... but this deck seems to rather have Savannah so its not wise to push into it I'm sure.

Memoricide is weird I know. I want those 3 slots for combo decks since we can hit 4 mana on 2 fairly consistently. Will try anything within reason.

Thanks!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Amazingxkcd

For the BUG deck (that interesting chronofit variation), would you want to have the newly spoilered Realmwright in there? (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showt...00#post9636400). I thinkl that he is cute and flashy, but that mana fixing that he provides would be interesting and help support the jace manabase.

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Pretty sure Realmwright's home will be in Modern RUG-Scapeshift. If we could Zenith him, then I'd be more inclined to throw him in because why not, but as a blue dude that we have no way of finding, I don't think it's worth it. The mana base should be fine --Explorers/Sakuras/Wood Elves/etc should even things out nicely. Just need a basic Forest, and then beyond that the mana base should develop itself pretty well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Niche

Long time lurker sharing his first run at Nic Fit.

Memoricide is weird I know. I want those 3 slots for combo decks since we can hit 4 mana on 2 fairly consistently. Will try anything within reason.

Thanks!

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I'm sure the G/B crowd will be along to help you out -- and they can provide you with more help than I could, as straight g/b is not something I'm that good with. But, that said, there is nothing wrong with memoricide whatsoever -- that's an archetype staple, in fact. I would also recommend splitting up Memoricide by getting a Cranial Extraction or two to go along with the Memoricide....people have, can, and will Surgical your Memoricides because that card can be such a problem for them.

Note, while we're on the subject, @Alexeezay and anyone else interested in ChronoFit -- does imprinting Cranial Extraction on a Mirror not sound like the absolute greatest thing ever? Take that, combo decks....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arianrhod

Quick note -- you can definitely Recycle vs Rock. Just be smart about it, and don't try to Recycle without a Top in play and/or a Therapy in your graveyard. There's also nothing wrong with Rectoring it out, drawing a bunch of cards with it, then Pulse/Vindicate/Deeding it away when you're done, if you don't feel safe.

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Totally agree with arianrhod here recycle is probably the card to play right now. Ya junk can pose a problem but with top or therapy in yard you should be fine I have found that when it gets going you should be able to get yosei online fairly easily. Just be careful against those pesky discard decks. Also quick side note you onl have to play the card it can get countered all day but you always draw. Many people I have talked to didn't know that. Now my opinion is that in a combo heavy environment rector would be better suited than scapewish. I would enjoy opinions on this. I will be playing at Nelc tomorrow and have not decided what version I am running but I wi have the full report.

@ Arianrhod and everyone else making GBW Superfriends Tokens - check the Rector list in my Sig.
Been testing and playing around with the token list for a while, it feels quite solid so far.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Viridia

@ Arianrhod and everyone else making GBW Superfriends Tokens - check the Rector list in my Sig.
Been testing and playing around with the token list for a while, it feels quite solid so far.

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I like the looks of this list. I may start trying Rector now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Niche

4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Diabolic Intent
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Innocent Blood
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Pernicious Deed
2 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Sylvan Library
3 Thoughtseize

4 Veteran Explorer
3 Deathrite Shaman
2 Eternal Witness
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Thragtusk
1 Grave Titan

1 Dryad Arbor
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
3 Bayou
6 Forest
3 Swamp
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Phyrexian Tower

Potential Sideboard:
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Crop Rotation
1 Karakas
1 Bojuka Bog
3 Kitchen Finks
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Tajuru Preserver
1 Chameleon Colossus
3 Memoricide
1 Necroplasm

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I really did not like Diabolic Intent in G/B. It's not really necessary. There's not as much of a toolbox in the deck as there is in other versions, and a lot of the time you don't have a good creature to sacrifice to it.

I would also take out the innocent bloods and maybe add 1 more abrupt decay and some other stuff which I'll mention. I can see wanting more sac outlets than Cabal Therapy, though, so it might be right to leave in some Intents/Bloods.

I've been told a million times that Dryad Arbor is bad, so I haven't even tried it.

I've been playing with 2 DRS lately, and they haven't ever really done anything for me. If I have them early, they die to deed, and if I have them late, I wish they were a creature or walker.

I would suggest you include at least 2 Liliana and 1 Garruk, Primal Hunter. Both have been amazing for me, Garruk especially.

I really like primeval titan and scavenging ooze in G/B. Scavenging Ooze because a lot of the time you want something that you can GSZ for cheap but will still grow to be a big creature. I had a lot of fun with Primeval Titan + 2 Treetops in G/B, because it's gives you 12 power of trampling damage, 6 of which is almost immune to Terminus. Grave Titan takes a whole turn to do anything, so I would switch Titans.

Where the hell are your Sensei's Tops? That's one of the most core cards in the deck, IMO.

I think you should switch the marsh flats for green fetchlands, and replace one or two forests with swamps. Getting wasteland-proof forests are more important than swamps, especially early. With 8 fetchlands, it's very strange to me why you don't have Tops.

Also, your sideboard is weird, but I'm at work and should probably actually work, so I'll leave that up to you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Niche

Long time lurker sharing his first run at Nic Fit.


4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Diabolic Intent
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Innocent Blood
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Pernicious Deed
2 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Sylvan Library
3 Thoughtseize

4 Veteran Explorer
3 Deathrite Shaman
2 Eternal Witness
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Thragtusk
1 Grave Titan

1 Dryad Arbor
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
3 Bayou
6 Forest
3 Swamp
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Phyrexian Tower

Potential Sideboard:
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Crop Rotation
1 Karakas
1 Bojuka Bog
3 Kitchen Finks
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Tajuru Preserver
1 Chameleon Colossus
3 Memoricide
1 Necroplasm


I know everyone is on the exciting GBR Scapewish... or Junk colored with Rector for Moat... however I just started getting into legacy and have... limited access... to some of those pieces. With the high volume of unfair decks I love having access to extra disruption so I built GB.

I'd love some thoughts/feedback/criticism. I tried to keep the creatures all GSZ targets excepting Grave Titan which I know is kind of a throwback.

I *could* access some white cards because I have Scrublands... but this deck seems to rather have Savannah so its not wise to push into it I'm sure.

Memoricide is weird I know. I want those 3 slots for combo decks since we can hit 4 mana on 2 fairly consistently. Will try anything within reason.

Thanks!

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Maindeck
- Sensei's Top: A deck with so much conditional cards that can be dead in certain situations (removal, ramp, discard) can't afford to play without filtering. Top is better than Library because it doesn't die to your own Deeds or your opponent's Abrupt Decays and you usually can't pay life anyway.
- Deathrite Shaman: There is really no point in running them because they will just turn one of the opponent's otherwise dead/bad hand cards (Decay, Bolt, Swords) into a good one. Or die to Deed. It is bad with all these Diabolic Intents, too.
- Terastodon: play one and I promise you will be glad you did. It fits your deck perfectly because you are quite low on win conditions.

this is what I would do:
- 3 DR Shaman
- 1 Diabolic Intent
- 1 Library
+ 3 Top
+ 1 Sylvan Ranger
+ 1 Terastodon


Sideboard:
- Memoricide isn't weird at all. All red versions play Slaughter Games in the SB so you are spot on. But they are not only good vs. Combo, don't forget to side them in against Miracles, too.
- I love the Crop Rotation tech. I really love it. Kills two birds with one stone. Maybe I will steal it.
- get your hands on some Carpet of Flowers, they are amazing against BUG, RUG, Miracles, Merfolk and Stoneblade

@Niche: While I haven't played straight GB nic fit at a tourny In a while, ive kept my list updated incase I want to play it. There is nothing wrong with not spashing a color. There a lot of advantages to just staying GB. I think a lot of people are just drawn to other colors cause it gives them more options that fit their play-style.

If I were to play GB nic fit, this is the list I would run. Ive tested quiet a bit and have been pretty happy.

Maindeck (60):
3 Bayou
4 Forest
4 Swamp
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Wooded Foothills
2 Windswept Heath

4 Veteran Explorer
2 Deathrite Shaman
2 Eternal Witness
2 Thragtusk
1 Primeval Titan


1 Diabolic Intent
3 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Phyrexian Arena

4 Cabal Therapy
2 Thoughtseize
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Pernicious Deed

3 Liliana of the Veil
2 Garruk, Primal Hunter
1 Karn Liberated

Sideboard (15):

3 Carpet of Flowers
2 Extirpate
1 Maelstorm pulse
2 Thoughtseize
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Ichneumon Druid
1 Cranial Extraction
1 Memoricide
2 Damnation
1 Acidic Slime

You could make some tweaks, but I think it is pretty solid. PW are really needed in GB Ive found. The deck doesnt have any insane creatures like sigarda, or broodmage dragon that are hard to remove and win the game in a few turns. Ive always been disapointed with Grave titan. He always just eats removal and give you 2 2/2s for 6 mana. Thrun, I dont like either, He either gets blocked by 2 drops that are bigger than him (goyf), gets a -2 from lily, or gets hit with terminus. Garruk and karn control the board, and then win the game too. They both beat Jace.dec too which is really important since nic fit tends to have trouble dealing with a jace.

Typically the tougher matches for GB nic fit are combo and UWx control. The SB is really supposed to help out those matches a lot. If you need explanations for any choices I made let me know.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arianrhod

Pretty sure Realmwright's home will be in Modern RUG-Scapeshift. If we could Zenith him, then I'd be more inclined to throw him in because why not, but as a blue dude that we have no way of finding, I don't think it's worth it. The mana base should be fine --Explorers/Sakuras/Wood Elves/etc should even things out nicely. Just need a basic Forest, and then beyond that the mana base should develop itself pretty well.

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Oh snap I didnt even think of his interaction with valakut. Although modern sucks a massive amount of dick, if I were going to play a modern deck it would definitely be RUG scapeshift.

Consuming the advice so far:

Group Hates/Cut:
Innocent Blood
Deathrite Shaman
Thrun

Group Wants/Add:
2-5 Planeswalkers (Liliana of the Veil, Garruk Primal Hunter, Karn Liberated)
2-3 Sensei's Divining Top
Better Wincon (Terastadon/P-Tits) - Challenge here will be to find a meaningful big/big that is GSZ targettable. I definitely get it.

Things I'm seeing shaved quantities on:
Diabolic Intent
Thoughtseize

Things that are different but might just be preference based:
Abrupt Decay
Maelstrom Pulse
P-Deed

Thank you all for the assistance. I'll study your responses in depth over the next week or two until the atlanta 5k im going to.

I'll bounce back alter with a tweaked list and if I think I've found a good beater in GB.

EDIT: This is gonna sound really bad I'm certain... but how do we like Kodama of the North Tree?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Niche

EDIT: This is gonna sound really bad I'm certain... but how do we like Kodama of the North Tree?

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I love Kodama of the North Tree in G/B. It's made even sweeter by the looks you get upon casting/GSZing for it.

And for the record, Thrun has been very good for me. Also, I like at least 2 discard spells in G/B. You have room, and I think a main strength of G/B is that you can just play straight up disruption and big dudes, without worrying about all of the cute stuff of other archetypes. This means more discard/removal/dudes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Niche

Consuming the advice so far:

Group Hates/Cut:
Innocent Blood
Deathrite Shaman
Thrun

Group Wants/Add:
2-5 Planeswalkers (Liliana of the Veil, Garruk Primal Hunter, Karn Liberated)
2-3 Sensei's Divining Top
Better Wincon (Terastadon/P-Tits) - Challenge here will be to find a meaningful big/big that is GSZ targettable. I definitely get it.

Things I'm seeing shaved quantities on:
Diabolic Intent
Thoughtseize

Things that are different but might just be preference based:
Abrupt Decay
Maelstrom Pulse
P-Deed

Thank you all for the assistance. I'll study your responses in depth over the next week or two until the atlanta 5k im going to.

I'll bounce back alter with a tweaked list and if I think I've found a good beater in GB.

EDIT: This is gonna sound really bad I'm certain... but how do we like Kodama of the North Tree?

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Play

Terastodon

The card is amazing in every list that needs more impact.

Punishing Fire versions don't need it because they can tutor for great Primeval Titans against Control and Broodmate Dragon. Scapeshift versions don't need it because with 8-9 lands in play they just want to Scapeshift. Rector versions already have Sigarda and Rector Enchantments (Nightmare, Recycle) to give you a lof of impact and an infinite amount of good things to do with your Mana.

For GB and GBu Terastodon is perfect.

The reason I haven't tried Terastodon yet is that it's 8 mana. We have a lot of early ramp but it is not consistent ramp all game, so I sometimes find it hard to get to 7 mana to GSZ a Prime Time.

Hey Niche: if you are who I think ya are, this deck has your name written on it: while the core of the deck is heavily green, green just can't get there without black ;).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HoneyT

To those of you interested in this version, I encourage you to play Kessig Wolf Run. It's not cute, it kills people. If you've never Wolf Runned a Thrun, you're missing out. Also, I'm pretty convinced that Huntmaster of the Fells is one of the best creatures you can be casting in Legacy at the moment. He's an absolute monster that many decks have a problem dealing with profitably.

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I play a singleton wolf run in my scapewish deck, 7/1 trampling wood elves and explorers clocks like bause and clears plow and terminus for the bigger boys later :laugh:

@HoneyT

Couldn't agree more on Kessig Wolf Run. I like it too. I'm also playing a singleton Inkmoth Nexus but I'm not convinced yet

Terastodon is not for most games, but quite regularly the games will just stall. In these games it is great to have something to work to that works like Scapeshift and ends the game. I just had very good experiences with it in BUG. Maybe I am wrong though, you do draw cards with BUG thanks to Jace, so you might just have more Mana in general. So maybe Terastodon is only good in Jace versions and my advice on it is bad. It has been an eternity since I played straight GB the last time. Try it and see if you like it.

I'm testing this list:

22 Lands

4 Explorer
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
2 Wooded Elves
2 Eternal Witness
1 Fierce Empath
1 Thragtusk
1 Terastodon
1 Primeval Titan
1 Grave Titan
1 Progenitus

4 Decay
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Natural Order

1 Recurring Nightmare
3 Deed
2 Top
2 Liliana

SB
2 Extirpate
2 Cranial Extraction
3 Duress
2 IOK
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Carpet of Flower
1 Pulse
1 Damnation


In my meta there are: Most Goblins, BUG aggro, Maverick, Canadian, Eva Green, Burn, Aggro Loam and some Miracle, Dredge, ANT.
any advice is welcome :smile:

@honeyt

any changesnfom the list as a result of the gp?