[Primer/Deck] Pox

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ClimbGneiss

Hey Josh! Thanks for the input. I'm glad you shared your thoughts on Mox Diamond. That card confuses me the most in Pox builds. I would tend to agree, but do you find that without it that we cannot beat sneak and show and other combo decks? It looks like your deck has made the hard decisions on the numbers of each Spell to play that I was struggling with. My only question is whether or not you wish you had more smallpox and collective brutality enablers? If so, where would you make cuts?
I agree with excluding DD combo. It's not like we do a particularly good job of utilizing the combo, so I was never impressed and often frustrated by having the rogue dark depths in my opener.

Something I like about your list is that you have a good mixture of targeted discard and cabal therapy, which enhances the vaue of therapy.

What are your thoughts on Toxic Deluge instead of Pernicious Deed? Do you ever find that the extra turn you have to wait to pop Deed loses you the game?

Wheres Fatal Push???

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Hey ClimbGneiss, I've been working on GB Pox for awhile and got inspired by Josh's Bloodghast/Cabal Therapy tech. But I disagree with him on Mox Diamond. Its not about acceleration, but more about breaking the parity when we cast Smallpox. We are also a two color deck that runs dual colored/double black cards in a format with Wasteland. I don't run Pernicious Deed, I tried it and felt it was too slow and it doesn't deal with planeswalkers.

Fatal Push imo is the black version of Swords to Plowshares. I find Deathrite Shaman to be a big threat to our strategy and Fatal Push kills him clean.

Two cards that I've been messing with are Mirri's Guile and Bontu's Last Reckoning.
I was running 2x Sensei's Divining Top before it got banned and felt it really helped smooth out our draws/dredging.
Mirri's Guile is not nearly as powerful SDT, but gets the job done, especially when you have Life From the Loam in the yard. To dredge or not to dredge sometimes becomes a big question...Mirri's Guile helps with that alot. Got lands and Bloodghast in you top three cards...loam away; see that Maelstrom Pulse or Liliana 2nd from the top...maybe don't dredge.

Bontu's Last Reckoning went into my Pernicious Deed slot in the sideboard. Consequently, it works a lot better with Mox Diamond. Times where I used Deed it was more of a creature board wipe and less about dealing with artifacts and enchantments.

Lastly,
Two things: Garruk Relentless and DD/Stage combo.
I run the DD/Stage combo. If you run Crop Rotation/Entomb and Life From the Loam it allows another angle of attack that doesn’t disturb the natural flow of the deck. It’s also “softly” resilient to Legacy’s premier removal spell, Swords to Plowshares. Gain 20 life and try again.
Garruk Relentless is great against control and really grindy matchups.

Here’s my current list:

Lands (27)
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Bayou
3 Mishra's Factory
3 Wasteland
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Swamp
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Forest
1 Barren Moor
1 Dark Depths
1 Cabal Pit
1 Bojuka Bog
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Polluted Delta
1 Windswept Heath

Creatures (3)
2 Bloodghast
1 Nether Spirit

Planeswalkers (2)
2 Liliana of the Veil

Spells (24)
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Smallpox
3 Hymn to Tourach
3 Life from the Loam
2 Entomb
2 Collective Brutality
2 Cabal Therapy
2 Fatal Push
1 Thoughtseize
1 Raven's Crime
1 Crop Rotation
1 Toxic Deluge

Other (4)
3 Mox Diamond
1 Mirri's Guile

Sideboard (15)
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Duress
1 Chains of Mephistopheles
1 Crop Rotation
1 Lost Legacy
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Pithing Needle
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Bontu's Last Reckoning
1 Coffin Purge
1 Engineered Plague
1 Karakas

Quote:

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Originally Posted by streetMage

Hey ClimbGneiss, I've been working on GB Pox for awhile and got inspired by Josh's Bloodghast/Cabal Therapy tech. But I disagree with him on Mox Diamond. Its not about acceleration, but more about breaking the parity when we cast Smallpox. We are also a two color deck that runs dual colored/double black cards in a format with Wasteland. I don't run Pernicious Deed, I tried it and felt it was too slow and it doesn't deal with planeswalkers.

Fatal Push imo is the black version of Swords to Plowshares. I find Deathrite Shaman to be a big threat to our strategy and Fatal Push kills him clean.

Two cards that I've been messing with are Mirri's Guile and Bontu's Last Reckoning.
I was running 2x Sensei's Divining Top before it got banned and felt it really helped smooth out our draws/dredging.
Mirri's Guile is not nearly as powerful SDT, but gets the job done, especially when you have Life From the Loam in the yard. To dredge or not to dredge sometimes becomes a big question...Mirri's Guile helps with that alot. Got lands and Bloodghast in you top three cards...loam away; see that Maelstrom Pulse or Liliana 2nd from the top...maybe don't dredge.

Bontu's Last Reckoning went into my Pernicious Deed slot in the sideboard. Consequently, it works a lot better with Mox Diamond. Times where I used Deed it was more of a creature board wipe and less about dealing with artifacts and enchantments.

Lastly,
Two things: Garruk Relentless and DD/Stage combo.
I run the DD/Stage combo. If you run Crop Rotation/Entomb and Life From the Loam it allows another angle of attack that doesn’t disturb the natural flow of the deck. It’s also “softly” resilient to Legacy’s premier removal spell, Swords to Plowshares. Gain 20 life and try again.
Garruk Relentless is great against control and really grindy matchups.

Here’s my current list:

Lands (27)
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Bayou
3 Mishra's Factory
3 Wasteland
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Swamp
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Forest
1 Barren Moor
1 Dark Depths
1 Cabal Pit
1 Bojuka Bog
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Polluted Delta
1 Windswept Heath

Creatures (3)
2 Bloodghast
1 Nether Spirit

Planeswalkers (2)
2 Liliana of the Veil

Spells (24)
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Smallpox
3 Hymn to Tourach
3 Life from the Loam
2 Entomb
2 Collective Brutality
2 Cabal Therapy
2 Fatal Push
1 Thoughtseize
1 Raven's Crime
1 Crop Rotation
1 Toxic Deluge

Other (4)
3 Mox Diamond
1 Mirri's Guile

Sideboard (15)
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Duress
1 Chains of Mephistopheles
1 Crop Rotation
1 Lost Legacy
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Pithing Needle
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Bontu's Last Reckoning
1 Coffin Purge
1 Engineered Plague
1 Karakas

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Thanks for the reply. I'm glad to see that there's some debate over Mox Diamond because I can't figure it out or the life of me.
What's your win % with the deck? Where do you struggle?

3-2 in my last 2 leagues with 4 cards changed in the main (-2 toxic deluge - 2 tombstalker + 4 bitterblossom):

4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Thoughtseize
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Smallpox
4 Bloodghast
4 Bitterblossom

3 Fatal Push
3 The Rack

2 Collective Brutality

4 Wasteland
2 Mishra's Factory
4 Bloodstained Mire
14 Swamp

SB:
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Faerie Macabre
2 Diabolic Edict
2 Marsh Casualties
2 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Sphere of Resistance
2 Null Rod
1 Pithing Needle


Last league:

Eldrazi Ramp 0-2
- Embarrassing loss but the games were close despite some mulligans. Oblivion Sower hit the right things both games (my threats in game 1, a wasteland for my wasteland game 2...)

Burn 2-0
- Feels hard to lose this matchup lately!

Lands 2-1
- Lose game one as always, though I didn't instantly scoop this time. Game 2 was quite long but successive Smallpoxes take him from 3 life to 0. Game 3 quick surgical on loam into Faerie beats with wasteland for glacial chasm.

Dragon Stompy 1-2
- Another puzzling loss to a chalice deck, but Koth gets the better of me twice. Game 3 I am punished for keeping only 1 black source in my 7.

Grixis Delver 2-1
- Lack of Deluge wasn't felt, and I never saw my marsh casualties. I sloppily miscalculated combat game 2 and died to my Bitterblossoms unnecessarily.


Not amazing results but better than expected with 0 toxic deluge, the idea was to be just a bit more proactive/consistent. Mulligans have been less frequent with 18 black sources, but they must be taken if you are short on swamps.

Next league I will try swapping 1 bitterblossom for 1 tombstalker. Might even make room for the 2nd and cut a Thoughtseize, recommendations welcome!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ClimbGneiss

Thanks for the reply. I'm glad to see that there's some debate over Mox Diamond because I can't figure it out or the life of me.
What's your win % with the deck? Where do you struggle?

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This is my only "major" claim to fame with an much older version of the deck: http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=14378&d=285961&f=LE lol.

I mostly play once or twice a month at my LGS. Not that much legacy where I live unfortunately....but I do get alot of casual games on mtgo. Decks like BUG can be an issue, between Deathrite Shaman, Ancestral Visions, Jace and Baleful Strix they just climb back in the game through raw CA. That's why cards like Chains of Mephistopheles are in the sideboard and work so well against them.

Death and Taxes can be an issue aswell when they lock you down with the Thalia legends and Rishadan Port. Sneak and Show mainly because of Griselbrand can be a struggle...

Sometimes a good turn one Hymn To Tourach (with the help of Mox Diamond) can hose the opponent for the rest of the match. Burn usto be a problem but got infinitely easier when I added the 2nd Collective Brutality to the main...card is absolute bonkers.

I think GB Pox has weapons to deal with every deck in the format, discard, uncounterable removal, gy hate...I was hoping for a 3 cmc Vraska planeswalker or something from the new set. If only Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver was in our colors:rolleyes:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by streetMage

This is my only "major" claim to fame with an much older version of the deck: http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=14378&d=285961&f=LE lol.

I mostly play once or twice a month at my LGS. Not that much legacy where I live unfortunately....but I do get alot of casual games on mtgo. Decks like BUG can be an issue, between Deathrite Shaman, Ancestral Visions, Jace and Baleful Strix they just climb back in the game through raw CA. That's why cards like Chains of Mephistopheles are in the sideboard and work so well against them.

Death and Taxes can be an issue aswell when they lock you down with the Thalia legends and Rishadan Port. Sneak and Show mainly because of Griselbrand can be a struggle...

Sometimes a good turn one Hymn To Tourach (with the help of Mox Diamond) can hose the opponent for the rest of the match. Burn usto be a problem but got infinitely easier when I added the 2nd Collective Brutality to the main...card is absolute bonkers.

I think GB Pox has weapons to deal with every deck in the format, discard, uncounterable removal, gy hate...I was hoping for a 3 cmc Vraska planeswalker or something from the new set. If only Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver was in our colors:rolleyes:

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Just went 3-2 at my weekly with this list :

3 Bloodghast
1 Nether Spirit
1 Cursed Scroll
=5

1 Raven's Crime
2 Cabal Therapy
3 Thoughtseize
=6

3 Collective Brutality
4 Smallpox
=7

3 Fatal Push
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Diabolic Edict
=7

3 Liliana of the Veil
2 Life From The Loam
2 Pernicious Deed
1 Sylvan Library
=8

1 Entomb
1 Crop Rotation
=2

4 Wasteland
4 Bayou
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Swamp
1 Forest
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Mishra's Factory
1 Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Cabal Pit
1 Bojuka Bog
=25

Sb
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Pithing Needle
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Chains of Mephistopheles
1 Crop Rotation
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Golgari Charm
2 Duress
1 Maelstrom Pulse


Rd 1 Beat Esper Delver 2-0.

Rd 2 Beat Grixis Delver 2-0

Rd 3 Squeaked out 2-1 vs Landstill brew.

Rd 4 Lost 2-1 to Moon Stompy. I can tell you that this is unwinnable. This list is extremely refined and should be seeing more play.

Rd 5 Lost 2-0 to Bug value brew. This is super winnable. Just hit a weak stretch of cards at a bad time. Almost pulled it out. G2, I wiped out my opponent with smallpox and wasteland and they turned around by playing a land, a Grafdiggers cage and ripping off several lands and creatures where I stalled on lands I think. I finally got enough lands to cast a Deed and they top decked a Phyrexian Revoker ftw.

This deck has legs. I want to change to sideboard. I'd like more starkly different effects than what the deck has so i can sideboard easier.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wotkenmendo

3-2 in my last 2 leagues with 4 cards changed in the main (-2 toxic deluge - 2 tombstalker + 4 bitterblossom):

4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Thoughtseize
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Smallpox
4 Bloodghast
4 Bitterblossom

3 Fatal Push
3 The Rack

2 Collective Brutality

4 Wasteland
2 Mishra's Factory
4 Bloodstained Mire
14 Swamp

SB:
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Faerie Macabre
2 Diabolic Edict
2 Marsh Casualties
2 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Sphere of Resistance
2 Null Rod
1 Pithing Needle


Last league:

Eldrazi Ramp 0-2
- Embarrassing loss but the games were close despite some mulligans. Oblivion Sower hit the right things both games (my threats in game 1, a wasteland for my wasteland game 2...)

Burn 2-0
- Feels hard to lose this matchup lately!

Lands 2-1
- Lose game one as always, though I didn't instantly scoop this time. Game 2 was quite long but successive Smallpoxes take him from 3 life to 0. Game 3 quick surgical on loam into Faerie beats with wasteland for glacial chasm.

Dragon Stompy 1-2
- Another puzzling loss to a chalice deck, but Koth gets the better of me twice. Game 3 I am punished for keeping only 1 black source in my 7.

Grixis Delver 2-1
- Lack of Deluge wasn't felt, and I never saw my marsh casualties. I sloppily miscalculated combat game 2 and died to my Bitterblossoms unnecessarily.


Not amazing results but better than expected with 0 toxic deluge, the idea was to be just a bit more proactive/consistent. Mulligans have been less frequent with 18 black sources, but they must be taken if you are short on swamps.

Next league I will try swapping 1 bitterblossom for 1 tombstalker. Might even make room for the 2nd and cut a Thoughtseize, recommendations welcome!

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You have probably too many 1cc discard.
Six should be enough that you see one in starting hand most of the time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hardcore

You have probably too many 1cc discard.
Six should be enough that you see one in starting hand most of the time.

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I want one allllll the time though. ;)

But yeah, I'm going to try -1 Thoughtseize -1 Bitterblossom + 2 Tombstalker in paper tonight.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ClimbGneiss

...Rd 4 Lost 2-1 to Moon Stompy. I can tell you that this is unwinnable. This list is extremely refined and should be seeing more play..

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Definitely a tough matchup, Mox Diamond makes it a little more manageable.

How was Cursed Scroll?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ClimbGneiss

Just went 3-2 at my weekly with this list :

3 Bloodghast
1 Nether Spirit
1 Cursed Scroll
=5

1 Raven's Crime
2 Cabal Therapy
3 Thoughtseize
=6

3 Collective Brutality
4 Smallpox
=7

3 Fatal Push
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Diabolic Edict
=7

3 Liliana of the Veil
2 Life From The Loam
2 Pernicious Deed
1 Sylvan Library
=8

1 Entomb
1 Crop Rotation
=2

4 Wasteland
4 Bayou
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Swamp
1 Forest
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Mishra's Factory
1 Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Cabal Pit
1 Bojuka Bog
=25

Sb
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Pithing Needle
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Chains of Mephistopheles
1 Crop Rotation
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Golgari Charm
2 Duress
1 Maelstrom Pulse


Rd 3 Squeaked out 2-1 vs Landstill brew.

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I there for this, you got super lucky that he was playing the wasteland game against you when he should have been developing his mana base.

List seems sweet. Actually makes me excited about Pox for the first time in a long time, though I tend towards mono black or bw.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jredelstein

So I beat Sneak and Show and other combo decks with discard, followed by Lily (or raven's crime lock)so you want as many cards in your hand which Mox diamond doesn't help with. Remember if you are blind naming with therapy name the card that beats you not necessarily what you think they might have.

As far as things to discard to Smallpox and Collective Brutality, I have never had an issue. Loam, Bloodghast, Nether spirit, cabal therapy, extra lands or redundant spells there are plenty of options.

Deluge is a great card, I've actually played Damnation in my sideboard. I prefer Deed because it hits so much more, including man lands and equipment. I do not play thoughtseize because life is too valuable in Pox so kinda that same feeling for Deluge, but in the match-ups you want it, it will be great.

For Fatal Push, another great card but I have done my best to minimize targeted removal and cards that could be dead in some match-ups.

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Ok so I posted a brief tourney report and this deck feels very strong!
Some card choices I made differently than you that felt really good:
Sylvan Library. The combo of Library and Loam was pretty insane. I shredded my opponents apart with alternating between Wasting them when appropriate, retracing Raven's Crime and drawing a card from the top of library.

Fatal Push/Diabolic Edict. I faced a lot of True-Name and Anglers. The instant speed was essential. Often, I'd bait out a Daze or Force of Will by casting Diabolic Edict EOT and then slam Liliana a of the Veil.

Chains of Mephistopheles. I removed The Abyss just before the tournament from the sideboard. This cards effect is replaceable by more Crop rotations or Crop rotation targets. Chains I decided to keep. I proceeded to have it in my opening hand maybe 3 times and slam it against a tapped out opponent with multiple cantrips in hand several times. As you may know, the card is often underwhelming, but with such value packed decks nowadays with so few threats, it's actually really good at the moment.

Card choices that you had that performed well for me:
Pernicious Deed. So I was fairly hesitant on this one. I thought Deluge wa going to be much better but I ran out 2 main deck Deed. It swept up mobs of creatures 2 or 3 times. Twice it was a lititle slow only because I top decked it or was mana screwed. Against Blood moon stompy, a turn earlier and I would have swept away 2 chalice, a Pia andKiran thoptor, 3 goblin tokens, and a Rabblemaster, and a Leyline of the Void. That sort of answer is unbelievable and super useful.
Another game, facing down a goyf, a tracker, a Grafdiggers cage and a Deathrite shaman I was about to take a big amount of damage with plenty of life left and my opponent top decked a Revoker ftw.

Slightly more luck and I would have gotten 4 or 5 for 1s.

Entomb/Nether Spirit. I entombed for Nether Spirit vs Gurmag Angler like 5 times. Diversifying the Bloodghasts with a single Spirit is definitely correct vs a world where everyone runs 2 or 3 surgicals.

Funny that my BR list and to be strong against the BG weaknesses and vice versa. (stomped on Moonstompy last night)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hardcore

Funny that my BR list and to be strong against the BG weaknesses and vice versa. (stomped on Moonstompy last night)

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That seems like valuable meta info! I had never consider running straight black - red. I've considered black green red a la Kennen Haas.

I was looking for tech that would dramatically turn the tables in the match up.
I found that in magus of the moon and Backlash. No lightning bolts.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ClimbGneiss

Ok so I posted a brief tourney report and this deck feels very strong!
Some card choices I made differently than you that felt really good:
Sylvan Library. The combo of Library and Loam was pretty insane. I shredded my opponents apart with alternating between Wasting them when appropriate, retracing Raven's Crime and drawing a card from the top of library.

Fatal Push/Diabolic Edict. I faced a lot of True-Name and Anglers. The instant speed was essential. Often, I'd bait out a Daze or Force of Will by casting Diabolic Edict EOT and then slam Liliana a of the Veil.

Chains of Mephistopheles. I removed The Abyss just before the tournament from the sideboard. This cards effect is replaceable by more Crop rotations or Crop rotation targets. Chains I decided to keep. I proceeded to have it in my opening hand maybe 3 times and slam it against a tapped out opponent with multiple cantrips in hand several times. As you may know, the card is often underwhelming, but with such value packed decks nowadays with so few threats, it's actually really good at the moment.

Card choices that you had that performed well for me:
Pernicious Deed. So I was fairly hesitant on this one. I thought Deluge wa going to be much better but I ran out 2 main deck Deed. It swept up mobs of creatures 2 or 3 times. Twice it was a lititle slow only because I top decked it or was mana screwed. Against Blood moon stompy, a turn earlier and I would have swept away 2 chalice, a Pia andKiran thoptor, 3 goblin tokens, and a Rabblemaster, and a Leyline of the Void. That sort of answer is unbelievable and super useful.
Another game, facing down a goyf, a tracker, a Grafdiggers cage and a Deathrite shaman I was about to take a big amount of damage with plenty of life left and my opponent top decked a Revoker ftw.

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Sylvan Library is great, but does not play well with Deed. I play 1 or 2 Tops until Wizards killed that one. (Should have been counterbalance, still annoyed by that call. Top it too integral to tier 2/fringe decks) Top was 1000% better than Library and works with Deed.

Fatal Push does not help with True-name or Angler. But I get what you are saying about instant speed. Efficient spells act the same way, 2 in one turn.

I love Chains but with Miracles mostly gone it is less good, and stranding cantrips in their hand makes small pox and Lily +1 less effective.

Pernicious Deed is what my whole deck is built around, I think it is criminally underplayed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jredelstein

Sylvan Library is great, but does not play well with Deed. I play 1 or 2 Tops until Wizards killed that one. (Should have been counterbalance, still annoyed by that call. Top it too integral to tier 2/fringe decks) Top was 1000% better than Library and works with Deed.

Fatal Push does not help with True-name or Angler. But I get what you are saying about instant speed. Efficient spells act the same way, 2 in one turn.

I love Chains but with Miracles mostly gone it is less good, and stranding cantrips in their hand makes small pox and Lily +1 less effective.

Pernicious Deed is what my whole deck is built around, I think it is criminally underplayed.

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I agree top is much, much better - especially with Deed. I actually am running two nonbo cards alongside the deeds: library and Cursed scroll. I could imagine removing Sylvan Library even thought it felt fine the other night. But, I'm actually fine with the nonbo of scroll and deed. Scroll is good enough in the deck and rewards you for using up your hand like we typically do.

Definitely, i was referring to Diabolic Edict with regards o angler and true name. Regarding push, I would have used Deathrite and delver as examples.

The point you make about Chains is really well made. I may have just been lucky in my matches the other night. One opponent I stranded them with 2 Brainstorm and a 1 Ponder for several turns which felt decent. This sideboard spot could probably be utilized by a card which is more powerful in the sense that I like my sideboard cards to win matches when possible. Its a bit harder in golgari, in esper you just play Containment Priest and win the match. I digress.

I do appreciate the advise on Deed. That definitely feels like the right place to be and I'd like to add a 3rd to the 75. I think it's most powerful just after the beginning of the game wiping 2 or 3 creatures and then slamming a Liliana, a la old school Nic Fit.

I'd like to discuss the sideboard. I was all mixed up on how to board. It felt like I didn't know what to take out versus far decks. And the cards I was bringing in were just more of the same (decay, pulse, deluge, etc.). Makes me think my sideboard could be better utilized running silver bullets.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hardcore

I was looking for tech that would dramatically turn the tables in the match up.
I found that in magus of the moon and Backlash. No lightning bolts.

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Hardcore, do you have a link to your list? i couldn't find it, though I'm sure it's there. I'm looking for a different approach to the Lands matchup, my Leylines/Needles/Wastelands don't seem to be cutting it, and it sounds like you've got something good going.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ntropy

Hardcore, do you have a link to your list? i couldn't find it, though I'm sure it's there. I'm looking for a different approach to the Lands matchup, my Leylines/Needles/Wastelands don't seem to be cutting it, and it sounds like you've got something good going.

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Against Lands have you tried Surgical Extraction and Lost Legacy...even Coffin Purge? Once you deal with Life From the Loam, Lands becomes more than manageable...

I'm not sure if you run green, but Crop Rotation is also good in that matchup when running Bojuka Bog, Thespian's Stage and Karakas.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ntropy

Hardcore, do you have a link to your list? i couldn't find it, though I'm sure it's there. I'm looking for a different approach to the Lands matchup, my Leylines/Needles/Wastelands don't seem to be cutting it, and it sounds like you've got something good going.

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Here. The cursed scrolls was pithing needles, but I am trying another angle.

CREATURES (10)
4 Bloodghast
3 Magus of the Moon
1 Vengeful Pharaoh
2 Tombstalker

ENCHANTMENTS (3)
3 Shrieking Affliction

SORCERIES (17)
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Pox
2 Reanimate
1 Buried Alive
4 Smallpox
2 Collective Brutality

INSTANTS (4)
4 Dark Ritual

PLANESWALKERS (3)
3 Liliana of the Veil

ARTIFACTS (2)
2 Cursed Scroll

LANDS (22)
11 Swamp
1 Polluted Delta
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Marsh Flats
2 Blood Crypt

SIDEBOARD (15)
4 Engineered Plague
4 Backlash
4 Surgical Extraction
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Cursed Scroll
1 Collective Brutality

Changes to main:
-2 Bitterblossom, - 1 Thoughtseize
+2 Tombstalker, + 1 Liliana, the Last Hope

SB:
-2 Marsh Caualties, - 1 Null Rod
+ 2 Toxic Deluge, + 1 Chains of Mephistopheles

Played just 3 rounds in paper.

R1: 0-2 Sneak'n'Show
G1: On the draw, get turn 1'd. Joy!
G2: Turn 2 Sphere for me is necessary but I only have my 2 starting lands. He taps out for a 4 mana Show and Tell. Grisel for him, Ensnaring Bridge for me. Looking to draw my 3rd land for my Smallpox in hand, can't do it, next turn Grisel goes active/finds Abrade, etc.

R2: 2-1 DnT

G1: On the play but get behind early on. The Last Hope helps me grind back into it along with Bitterblossom. On his last turn to live he topdecks the Mirran Crusader to kill me with lightning greaves.
G2: Pretty quick Liliana/Rack win.
G3: I have removal/both Lili's vs more lands than he'd like.

R3: 0-2 B/R Reanimator
G1: On the draw again vs combo, actually ends up being a close race between Sire and Rack/Factory, but I die.
G2: I keep a 6 with a nice curve but no gy hate, I don't go to five looking for it as it would probly be taken from me anyway. Turn one Thoughtseize reveals Entomb, 2x Ritual, Exhume, Elesh Norn, land. I take entomb. He draws another and gets Iona. Joy!

Naturally the Infect and Delvers dodged me. Not happy losing to Sneak or B/R, but it's got to happen sometimes. Will return with more league results...

So I've tweaked this list just in the sideboard to include a couple more silver bullets in the board. I kept the Cursed Scroll and Sylvan Library in the MD even though they don't play well with Pernicious Deed.
The sideboard silver bullets that I added are:

- 1 Null Rod
- 1 Lost Legacy
- 1 Garruk Relentless

I removed
- 1 Crop Rotation
- 1 Crucible of Worlds
- 1 Chains of Mephistopheles

One thing I'm unsure of:
Should I find space for a 3rd Abrupt Decay main deck and remove the 2 sideboard Abrupt Decay? Then I could add back in the Chains which is useful against Grixis, Griselbrand, etc.

3 Bloodghast
1 Nether Spirit
1 Cursed Scroll
=5

1 Raven's Crime
2 Cabal Therapy
3 Thoughtseize
=6

3 Collective Brutality
4 Smallpox
=7

3 Fatal Push
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Diabolic Edict
=7

3 Liliana of the Veil
2 Life From The Loam
2 Pernicious Deed
1 Sylvan Library
=8

1 Entomb
1 Crop Rotation
=2

4 Wasteland
4 Bayou
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Swamp
1 Forest
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Mishra's Factory
1 Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Cabal Pit
1 Bojuka Bog
=25

Sb
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Pithing Needle
2 Duress
1 Golgari Charm
1 Lost Legacy
1 Garruk Relentless / Bitterblossom
1 Null Rod
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Toxic Deluge
2 Abrupt Decay (1?)

1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Chains of Mephistopheles