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I played some matches against my friend on rug delver last night and it's weird it never really came up, it was just a blow out every game because he was never able to screw up my tempo into vet trigger and so their decks whole strategy was diminished. It feels so good. Stifle/daze/spell pierce decks are always what I end up playing sloppy against so I'm always freaked out.
Stifle is surprisingly insane against us. vet is a beating against land denial decks so resolving a trigger is absolutely necessary.
A little random and last minute......but does anyone need a spot to stay for #scgphi? It seems I have plenty of space in my hotel room.....as in me by myself currently.
Stifle is pretty good against you in my past. Stifle on Vet keeps their pierces and dazes live against you. That and hitting deed is bad for you. Against Delver I think you want to play around daze as best as you can. That's been my most successful ways of beating the deck with every deck I've ever played
If you wait and play around Daze, do so. You have ideally 4 uncounterable removal spells, and 2-4 that are easily out of Daze range (Path). Blind calling Stifle/Force is always a very good call, especially if you keep noticing the same cards never leaving their hand. Stifle is one of the only ways Delver has a real chance against us, minus the nut draw, since they generally also have some removal for Deathrite.Quote:
Originally Posted by Megadeus
Basic lands are also pretty tech, so if you're doing it, crack fetches in their upkeep to eat mana during their turn instead of yours.
-Matt
this is the jund list im going to be working on its just a starting point for now im not traditionally a jund player.
4 vet
1 deathrite
1 scooze
1 witness
1 nissa
4 abby
2 tusk
3 zenith
2 top
2 intent
1 nightmare
4 therapy
3 decay
3 deed
3 lilly
2 p fire
2 innocent blood
22 lands
3 bayou
2 badlands
2 forest
3 swamp
1 mountain
4 verdant
2 wooded foothills
2 phyrexian tower
3 grove of burnwillows
14g 14b 12r
2 games
3 surgical
2 ts
2 reb
1 grip
1 rec sage
1 hymm
1 p fire
1 pulse
1?
Alright so I think I finally settled on a list and think I am going to try it at the Card Kingdom weekly legacy on monday. Only thing I am sketchy about is playing one top after so many lists play two, and running both vindicate and maelstrom pulse. that spot removal is so useful, especially killing planeswalkers, and high CMC things decay can't hit. So many awesome sideboard options, and so much hate for bad combo matchups. I want to fit in 2 chokes in the board but am not sure what to cut, if anything. one duress and...? Any feedback would be awesome, haven't played this at a tournament yet.
Lands
x2 bayou
x2 savannah
x1 scrubland
x1 taiga
x3 forest
x3 swamp
x2 plains
x1 phyrexian tower
x1 karakas
x2 windswept heath
x4 verdant catacombs
Creatures
x4 veteran explorer
x2 deathrite shaman
x1 gaddock teeg
x1 courser of kruphix
x1 meren
x1 sigarda
x1 thragtusk
x3 siege rhino
x1 scavenging ooze
x1 eternal witness
Spells
x4 abrupt decay
x2 path to exile
x4 cabal therapy
x1 maelstrom pulse
x1 vindicate
x3 pernicious deed
x2 painful truths
x4 green sun zenith
artifacts
x1 senseis top
Sideboard
x2 slaughter games
x3 duress
x2 ethersworn canonist
x2surgical extraction
x2 carpet of flowers
x1 dryad militant
x1 qasali pridemate
x1 garruk, relentless
x1 toxic deluge
Needs more Top.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deadinthestreet
I'd be crazy enough to up the count to 8...Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardio
Meh, it's fine to go Topless. Just need to topdeck, LIKE A BOSS. But I have a natural +10 to luck, so there's that.Quote:
Originally Posted by sdematt
@Deadinthestreet: Your manabase does need some work though. You're not hitting the 14/14/14 initial B/G/W sources mark. That'll lead to losses due to colour screw, which isn't really necessary.
This, you can go to 61 and add the second top. And a third one is advisable. Not really sure what to suggest to cut from your list. Somewhere between Abrupt Decay, Deathrite Shaman or move Gaddock Teeg to the side and boot the Dryad Militant, Toxic Deluge or one Duress.Quote:
Originally Posted by sdematt
Matt, seems that you are popular. Driving around in a Porsche, completing your P9 and signing cards like a movie star.
Abyssal PersecutorQuote:
Originally Posted by uncletiggy
Looking at the sac outlet's you might be interested to run a Dryad Arbor and a Meren of Clan Nel Toth in there so you have access to 1. instant creature to sac and 2. have it recurring.
Kind off reminds me of the version with Demigod of Revenge that Ralf did a while back. Might wanna check into it for comparison. Found the first post
The Demigods do seem pretty epic when you can recur them. Might be too cute though.
Yeah.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobmans
I finally settled on the following list but the thread had moved on (so I keep it "warm" until we speak about it again)
Revenge Fit by Ralf
1 Forest
2 Mountain
3 Swamp
1 Badlands
3 Bayou
4 Taiga
3 Wooded Foothills
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Phyrexian Tower
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Thragtusk
4 Demigod of Revenge
3 Liliana of the Veil
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Pernicious Deed
2 Kolaghan's Command
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Toxic Deluge
3 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy
SB: 1 Golgari Charm
SB: 1 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Pyroclasm
SB: 3 Thoughtseize
SB: 3 Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 Blood Moon
SB: 3 Slaughter Games
It is definitely less oriented towards a classic JUND Fit end game (recurring PF and protecting the damn Troll) but it brings better sideboard options against bad MU (decks that tends to go over us).
Blood Moon is a beating.
The rest is pretty classic.
KC is really good, here.
Anyway, looking at your oppo's face when striking with "hasty" Demons is something "priceless" if you ask me.
This list should be pretty well positioned against the whole meta.
I'd trade a Huntmaster with a Meren. Gives you crazy blowout potential with the demons.
Might also make Buried Alive a thing. Drop Meren, bury 3 Demons, at e.o.t. return one to your hand and the next turn attack for 15.
Thanks for the explanation, I was applying too much kitchen-table logic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardio
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Ralf, if you're not running the pfires engine in the Jund build, I'd suggest either terminates + decays or scrap things to play white --- as bolt does very little for this kind of deck. Demigod looks too gimmicky/cute.
Bolt isn't high impact enough in a deck that has gobs of mana. Fires controls your small creatures and walkers, and Decay kills basically everything else. Terminate might just be unnecessary.Quote:
Originally Posted by Warden
Played the weekly local with Junk Fit because I forgot Jund at the bank.
Lost in 5 minutes to Sneak Show god draw in game 1, followed by his mull to 6 hit Leyline of Sanctity, turning off my discard heavy hand that never sees GSZ into Qasali, nor Grip, nor Charms, and I die to Emrakul.
Round 2 crush 4C Loam since my threats don't die to Fires and they're extremely threat light. Sigarda is a tank.
Leave for Round 3 so I can make it to a lovely tiny hand made pasta place before it closes. Proceed to watch a hobo fight while eating excellent pasta. All in all, a successful night.
-Matt
Now I cannot avoid imagining you enjoying the hobo fight. Porsche parked in front of the FNM location, foil rhinos hanging on its rear-view mirror like arbre magique, all of this while savouring Italian bronze-drawn durum wheat BIO pasta. Life's good.Quote:
Originally Posted by sdematt
Made my day :laugh:Quote:
Originally Posted by rubblekill
De natura bolterum:Quote:
Originally Posted by Warden
Bolt is not spectacular by any means but it is nonetheless one of the best 1 CMC removal available in Legacy.
Surprisingly, the reach it provides, even if we are a control deck by design, can be relevant because the deck does have some high velocity games/hands that you'll never have with a classic Punishing Fire version.
Terminate might be an "overall" better card for a control deck but 2 CMC is not 1 CMC and it does not provide any reach at all.
Dreadbore might be what one should play. At least you get to hit PW.
This has to be assessed anyway and as long as you don't drop too much win rate % against tempo deck (testing wise) by switching bolt for dreadbore/terminate, I guess bolt could be cut.
De natura Deorum:
Demigods' ability is unique among the Legacy card pool.
For 5 colored CMC you get:
- 5/4 (5 power !)
- Haste
- Flying (evasion)
1) It doesn't die to bolt and abrupt decay.
2) Haste is one of those underrated ability (in Legacy) which nonetheless provides you to kill oppo's PW on the spot / or make your opponent think that he can safely be tapped out on an empty board.
3) At last, it has this weird recurring ability and one can be entitled to think it is cute...until you get to play with it.
Actually, Demigod is a very oiled machine. I am aware that it requires a f.cking huge setup (manabase wise, playing a full playset, etc...) and this might be a bit too much but, it works. Period.
This 75 are not "set in stone" and might still need some tweaks (mainly creatures other than Demigods/removals wise).
I guess the deck is still a bit soft to "STP" (my test samples against Miracle are too light atm) and we might add a Thrun back in the deck to put the final nail in the coffin against white control deck as Thrun would give you some sort of inevitability (main deck) against Miracle for example.
At last if I had to weight the pros and cons of playing this deck instead of a classic PF build, I would say:
- this deck is more straight forward but does not provide as much virtual CA as a classic build.
- this deck kills faster but is less controllish.
- this deck grants you to play Blood Moon as a strong sideboard card.
Anyway, for those interested in such experience, you'll have a lot of fun and a lot of victories (and you can mark my word here).
Well... Consider this: Drop your ADs for Dreadbores.
You might lose some value vs. Miracles, but you gain value vs. anything that goes bigger than you.
And run a Meren, lol. Even returning a single Demigod to your hand can potentially win you the game. See it as a GSZ'able 5th Demigod.