[Primer] Nic Fit

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SMRiggin

Good Evening!
I have been working on the Rector Fit list since Arena Rector was spoiled. I've played in a few tournaments - I won an 18 person one last night - I have tested the wishless and wish version, and I'm pretty happy with where I am right now. This is what I've been working on:

...

Thanks,
Shawn

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Who you were playing with?

I still think in this form the deck is too slow and has nothing to do until you have 4 lands when you can jam some A.Rectors.

But these are my suggestions
Remove
1 Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
1 Karn Liberated
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Forest
1 Leyline of Sanctity
Add
1 Nissa, Vital Force
1 Cruel Reality/Wurm Machine
3 Collective brutality
1 Thespian stage
1 Crop rotation as 61st card or remove the second AB

Sideboard
Remove
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Path to Exile
1 Bitterblossom
Add
1 Dark Depths
1 Kambal
1 Containment Priest
1 Thragtusk/Kitchen Finks

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Matsu

Who you were playing with?

I still think in this form the deck is too slow and has nothing to do until you have 4 lands when you can jam some A.Rectors.

But these are my suggestions
Remove
1 Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
1 Karn Liberated
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Forest
1 Leyline of Sanctity
Add
1 Nissa, Vital Force
1 Cruel Reality/Wurm Machine
3 Collective brutality
1 Thespian stage
1 Crop rotation as 61st card or remove the second AB

Sideboard
Remove
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Path to Exile
1 Bitterblossom
Add
1 Dark Depths
1 Kambal
1 Containment Priest
1 Thragtusk/Kitchen Finks

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Thank you for the feedback. I don’t feel like the list is slow at all. Knowing which hands to Mull is important. For the record, this is what I faced Tuesday night
ANT 2-1
Depths 2-1
Omnitell 0-2
Miracles 1-0-1 (I probably should have lost this one, but the pilot was an idiot)
Steel Stompy 2-0

I have found that knowing what best to name with Cabal Therapy has been a huge benefit. Knowing the tier decks and what could hurt you the most is easily one of the most important skills in the deck.

I like some of your suggestions. Kambal is a great idea. I’ve found Karn lackluster, so that will probably become Nissa VF. Sandwurm Convergence is also probably going to make an appearance in the main somewhere, if nothing else as a hedge vs Show and Tell.

But some of the choices to cut have me puzzled. Cavern and tower in the sideboard have been godsends. Elspeth is next to impossible to get off the board in many matchups. In fact, Elspeth is usually my first fetch vs Eldrazi.

Shawn.

i like the list, I personally do not play the deck, but since arena rector came out I've had tough matches against it, particularly when they resolve Eureka. I think a tighter PW and enchantment package would benefit you, I don't think MD leyline of sanctity is necessary, nor are the porphyry nodes. cruel reality, sandworm convergence, curse of death's hold, overwhelming splendor, and dovescape are all insanely good choice. as for PW, elspeth seems unnecessary, might as well have 2 ugins.

also does silent graveyard protect rector?

Elspeth answers some stuff Ugin can't deal wirh... That's why you run both.

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Originally Posted by Echelon

Elspeth answers some stuff Ugin can't deal wirh... That's why you run both.

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100% this. Ugin is not great against steel Stompy or eldrazi. I don’t think I’ve lost a game where I get Elspeth out vs Eldrazi.

I think I will pull the leyline of sanctity when I am away from my home store. I have a heavy burn meta locally, that’s why it sees play in the main.

Has anyone had issues with Dovescape preventing you from casting things you need to? I haven’t tested that in the build yet. It seems like it could potentially lock you out if you don’t have another rector. I see the benefits vs decks like miracles, storm, etc.

Shawn

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SMRiggin

100% this. Ugin is not great against steel Stompy or eldrazi. I don’t think I’ve lost a game where I get Elspeth out vs Eldrazi.

I think I will pull the leyline of sanctity when I am away from my home store. I have a heavy burn meta locally, that’s why it sees play in the main.

Has anyone had issues with Dovescape preventing you from casting things you need to? I haven’t tested that in the build yet. It seems like it could potentially lock you out if you don’t have another rector. I see the benefits vs decks like miracles, storm, etc.

Shawn

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I think I lost only 1 game where I resolved Dovescape, and it was at a point where nothing else would really have won.

It can really depend on your list though. Lingering Souls creates 6 birds under a Dovescape, GSZ creates X+1 bird, etc. Typically you are incredibly favored and it makes any later drawn Rectors uncounterable. Sac outlets don't require that the spell be resolved, so Therapy/Phyrexian Tower/Tendrils of Despair all continue to work to kill them off. Think about it this way - your opponent's Brainstorm and other 1/2cmc chaff become essentially 1 card for 1-2 birds. Your cards are typically 1 card for 2-6 birds. That race is easy to win. It's really humorous to watch a storm deck try to keep up. Even the scary "what about Force of Will" is 2 cards for 5 birds which we can compete with.

Stoneforge Mystic is a particular problem, but that's the deck that you grab Splendor first.

Edit: Abrupt Decay also still works under Dovescape, AND it makes 2 birds :)

I'm currently testing and trying to tune 6/8Rector Nic Fit online (the version with both Rectors, Eureka and Living Wish).

Some things I noticed after my first two leagues:

- I agree we need Elspeth for Eldrazi (which is very popular now) because Ugin doesn't do too much there and 1 is enough.
- problems vs Miracles - maybe 1-2 maindeck Cavern of Souls and 2-3 Carpet of Flowers sb? Or just more discard instead? I got 4 Cabal 2 TSeize 2 Collective Brutality. Thoughts on this matchup? Miracles is amongst the foremost popular decks now.
- Eureka is insane in the doubleRector build.
- Cruel Reality was meh, even though it took out a Karn vs EldraziPost.
- Collective Brutality never felt like it's doing enough for the cost. Sure, you can Duress someone or kill your own creature with it, but I wasn't lacking a sac-outlet most of the time and killing opponent's creatures wasn't needed (for the cost, I mean. And it getting countered isn't the best sometimes). I will probably test out Tendrils of Despair, Drop of Honey, Diabolic Intent or even more CC1 discard here.
- I wish we could fit in Brainstorm somehow - is it too crazy to include 1 Island 1 Tropical Island for 4 Brainstorm? With a Taiga/Mountain we could hardcast Nicol Bolas, LOL. Just throwing the insanity out there.
- Omniscience/Emrakul feel unnecessary and will get cut for me - Omni relies on Wish and having it alone/topdecking it is super bad compared to the other finishers.
- Living Wish felt a little better than GSZ/more maindeck Rectors, just because fetching Phyrexian Tower can be crucial. That's it. Have yet to see if SB Karakas and/or Tabernacle are worth it.

Anybody else testing the Eureka/8Rector build?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alexeezay

I'm currently testing and trying to tune 6/8Rector Nic Fit online (the version with both Rectors, Eureka and Living Wish).

Some things I noticed after my first two leagues:

- I agree we need Elspeth for Eldrazi (which is very popular now) because Ugin doesn't do too much there and 1 is enough.
- problems vs Miracles - maybe 1-2 maindeck Cavern of Souls and 2-3 Carpet of Flowers sb? Or just more discard instead? I got 4 Cabal 2 TSeize 2 Collective Brutality. Thoughts on this matchup? Miracles is amongst the foremost popular decks now.
- Eureka is insane in the doubleRector build.
- Cruel Reality was meh, even though it took out a Karn vs EldraziPost.
- Collective Brutality never felt like it's doing enough for the cost. Sure, you can Duress someone or kill your own creature with it, but I wasn't lacking a sac-outlet most of the time and killing opponent's creatures wasn't needed (for the cost, I mean. And it getting countered isn't the best sometimes). I will probably test out Tendrils of Despair, Drop of Honey, Diabolic Intent or even more CC1 discard here.
- I wish we could fit in Brainstorm somehow - is it too crazy to include 1 Island 1 Tropical Island for 4 Brainstorm? With a Taiga/Mountain we could hardcast Nicol Bolas, LOL. Just throwing the insanity out there.
- Omniscience/Emrakul feel unnecessary and will get cut for me - Omni relies on Wish and having it alone/topdecking it is super bad compared to the other finishers.
- Living Wish felt a little better than GSZ/more maindeck Rectors, just because fetching Phyrexian Tower can be crucial. That's it. Have yet to see if SB Karakas and/or Tabernacle are worth it.

Anybody else testing the Eureka/8Rector build?

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For miracles, I run Cavern in the wish board just for this matchup. Don't cast until you have the sac outlet ready.

I didn't like brutality when I tested it. It just never seemed like it did enough.

I solved the casting Nicol Bolas problem with Oath of Nissa. It also gives me some filtering early and helps me find the first Rector or a land if I need it.

I can't afford Drop of Honey, lol. So I run the Porphery Nodes instead. 2-of. They have not disappointed yet.

Shawn

hey does anyone know if silent gravestone protects rector in the GY and still allows the trigger? I feel it could be a good SB choice against surgical extraction and also work against reanimator spells

It works like you think it does. Do note that Exhume still works normally under a Silent Gravestone.

Hi guys,

Just a quick battle report.

First the list:

Creature
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Academy Rector
4 Veteran Explorer

Instant
1 Swords to Plowshares
2 Abrupt Decay

Sorcery
1 Vindicate
3 Collective Brutality
3 Lingering Souls
3 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy

Enchantment
1 Dovescape
1 Overwhelming Splendor
1 Curse of Death's Hold
1 Sandwurm Convergence
1 Cruel Reality
2 Pernicious Deed
2 Sylvan Library
3 Evolutionary Leap

Planeswalker
1 Garruk Relentless

Land
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
2 Plains
2 Bayou
2 Phyrexian Tower
2 Swamp
4 Windswept Heath
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Forest

Sideboard:
2 Faerie Macabre
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Fleshbag marauder
1 Kambal
2 Lost Legacy
2 Choke
2 Pithing Needle
1 Dragon's claw
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Pulse of Murasa

Yeah the Sideboard is a pile of shit.

I had a long brake and did not play mtg for 4 month (tournament play) just some testing from time to time.
So i was playing Win a Tundra at an LGS.
We had 17 people.
I expected a lot of Burns and S&S.

The meta was:
3 S&S
3 D&T
2 Goblins
1 Esper Blade
1 Reanimator
1 Burn
1 Infect
1 4c pile
2 Jund
1 High tide
1 Me

I still have a little jet lag so i wanted more to troll people then play mtg.

Battle 1 - 4C pile
Game 1
I slowly build my board. He happily trade his Strix to my Explorer. He finally cast Jace and try to finish me, i lock him with Splendor, Death's hold, Cruel reality. We lost some time because, he had to read all the cards I play.
Game 2
He goes thoughseize into Tourach into Tourach.
Game 3
I cast brutality turn 2 and see Fow, BS, Bolt, Bolt, Tourach, Tourach, Tarn, he has badlands in play. I take the BS. I manage to cast E.Leap turn three. He throw another Tourach and bolt to me i top deck Academy rector on turn 5 after time.

Draw
0-0-1

Battle 2 - Goblins
Game 1
I reset the board with P.Deed at around 10 life and loop Academy Rector.
Game 2
Same as game one just faster thanks to Veteran explorer.

Win
1-0-1

Battle 3 - Goblins, a good friend
Game 1
He goes mountain ->lackey, i go forest -> explorer, He tarfire explorer i StP his lackey with the fresh plains. I reset the board with P.Deed and deploy rector into splendor. I have leap in play, but cannot draw any relevant card. It took him around 15 turns to bring me down to 3 life. I finally draw a creature loop with leap into Death's hold. He surrenders.
Game 2
I cast turn 2 E.leap. and loop explorer into rector.

Win
2-0-1

Battle 4 - D&T - he always has the nuts no matter what i do.
Game 1
I have a hand with double explorer and a forest, He has 3 StP so Dryad Arbor is not working. He kill me with Pro GB Knight.
Game 2
Mom into Thalia into Pro GB knight into phyrexian revoker ->GG

Loss
2-1-1

I finish sixth, open a Whiteling from a booster pack, so not bad.

Thoughts:
I did not cast any Therapy and Lingering souls during the whole tournament. Yeah I played just Nic without the Fit.
Always have a toxic deluge in your deck.
Ground Seal is a must with the amount of surgical extraction around.
The deck is cool to play, but sometimes you lose to bad beats and there is nothing to do about that.
Eternal witness might be useful to bring back those big enchantments. Maybe Nissa, vital force will be sufficient.

I think the deck needs more stax effect like Suppresion Field, Ghostly Prison, Windborn muse, silent arbiter, Curse of Exhaustion, Root Maze, etc, ... But the deck will shift more toward a white deck, this might be a solution and maybe improve the deck. I had a lot of situation when i wanted to slow down my opponent before locking him. This probably will also work with Arena rector.

I really like the Living Wish option to fetch some stax creature or lands.

What do you guys think about adding more stax effects?

@Matsu You'll end up with a list kinda like Barmudas posted some weeks back. He himself concluded it wasn't worth it.

Anyone else heading to Richmond for the GP Next weeekend?

Shawn

I have been testing Viridian Emissary as a GSZ target instead of Sakura-Tribe Elder, and it's definitely more valuable in combat. It works with Therapy/Tower nicely and is better than Vet when retrieved with Meren/Liliana tLH. Generally, I feel that Nic Fit lost too much in the DRS ban. It consistently does what it's designed to do, it's just not good enough, not in my opinion.

Meren + STE is a loop... And STE is a surefire way of expanding your mana development rather than a conditional one. Another thing is that I might not want to waste my flashback on an Emissary, at least when I'm running a fair Rector list for instance.

In my games, while was looping STE and building mana, opponents were killing me. The difference between 1 power and 2 power is incredibly significant in my humble opinion, much more important than the flexibility of sacrificing STE for lands. If I raw-draw one or the other, I'd much rather have STE truthfully, because he is a guaranteed ramp. If I'm on a GSZ mana ramp plan, I will get Veteran Explorer probably 99/100 times. If I need to be able to block and kill an x/2 while still getting value then Emissary is better as a GSZ target. I won't argue with you, not when you have such extensive experience with this deck, but I think in my fair/aggressive list with Siege Rhinos that extra power is the right call. I do not have the inclination, nor the funds, to invest in either of the Rector builds. Having played against it at the local (Arena Rector), I wasn't really all that impressed with it, but I admit it's powerful.

If the danger in the cantrip cartel is too much 'air' in terms of just drawing into more cantrips, then the closest similarity in Nic Fit is too much 'air' in terms of just ramping into more mana.

Academy is a lot more powrful than Arena, especially in the mirror :laugh:

Good luck dealing w/ Overwhelming Splendor :tongue:

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Originally Posted by Mr. Safety

In my games, while was looping STE and building mana, opponents were killing me. The difference between 1 power and 2 power is incredibly significant in my humble opinion, much more important than the flexibility of sacrificing STE for lands. If I raw-draw one or the other, I'd much rather have STE truthfully, because he is a guaranteed ramp. If I'm on a GSZ mana ramp plan, I will get Veteran Explorer probably 99/100 times. If I need to be able to block and kill an x/2 while still getting value then Emissary is better as a GSZ target. I won't argue with you, not when you have such extensive experience with this deck, but I think in my fair/aggressive list with Siege Rhinos that extra power is the right call. I do not have the inclination, nor the funds, to invest in either of the Rector builds. Having played against it at the local (Arena Rector), I wasn't really all that impressed with it, but I admit it's powerful.

If the danger in the cantrip cartel is too much 'air' in terms of just drawing into more cantrips, then the closest similarity in Nic Fit is too much 'air' in terms of just ramping into more mana.

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If you want 2 power with mana development, why not Nissa?

STE with Meren is great because it's a guaranteed counter every turn. You need additional actions to loop Emissary with Meren, but that's assuming you need Meren in the first place.

Also, the x/2 in question is important. I've used Scryb Ranger to some success as my 7th mana dork and that blocks everyones favorite 3/2. I'm not sure that particular card is still good enough without DRS around, but it did work.

The other thing is, if you have no way to kill Emissary, you're not getting any mana ramp. STE is always land.

The issue with ramping into more mana is why I don't like the big cards like Rhino and why I think a card advantage focused approach is better. More mana means more cards, which means more things. It's the most reliable way to use extra mana, especially after having lost our two best mana sinks in DRS and SDT.

Been throwing around some ideas since the DRS ban, it hit my lists pretty hard but I think I've come up with something now. Basically, with the loss of DRS I lost both a mana source and a mana sink.

In flash I had been playing Scryb Ranger but in a non flash list I can just play Quirion Ranger. What this card does, is that when you're short on lands it lets you bounce and replay a land mitigating the effect of missing a land drop. It allows some interesting counterplay against say Hymn to Tourach by adding another card to your hand, and it lets you maximize Brainstorms by bouncing excess lands and shuffling them back in for new cards. It also has a great interaction with Dryad Arbor, the opening: T1 Land, GSZ for 0 getting Arbor, T2 Land, Quirion Ranger, tap Arbor, bounce land, untap Arbor, tap other land results in getting a creature on the battlefield and having 1GG to spend on T2 and 2GG to spend on T3.

The other mana source/sink I'm looking at is Sylvan Safekeeper. At first it may not seem like Safekeeper is a mana source, but Safekeeper provides an incentive for playing additional lands, so supporting it should naturally lead to having more land drops. This is in addition to it being an obvious mana sink by sacrificing lands to protect your board.

Here's my first pass at this list. It will likely change before I next get to play it in a tournament but I think there's something here:
Land 22
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Bayou
4 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Karakas
2 Dryad Arbor
1 Bojuka Bog

Creatures 19
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
2 Quirion Ranger
4 Dark Confidant
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
3 Tireless Tracker
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Eternal Witness
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
1 Thragtusk

Spells 20
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Crop Rotation
1 Mirri's Guile
1 Exploration
2 Diabolic Edict
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Golgari Charm
1 Collective Brutality
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Liliana, the Last Hope

If playing safekeeper, I would play titania too, since it is quite a good combo together