Fixed :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by lebarion
And I split finals this weekend, remember?
Printable View
Fixed :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by lebarion
And I split finals this weekend, remember?
I know that this is Vial goblins, but I could not find the Food Chain Thread, so I hope you guys forgive me for posting here.
So, I went to the same champ as Lebarion. 53 People I guess.
Decklist:
// Lands
4 [P2] Mountain (3)
4 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
1 [EX] City of Traitors
3 [R] Taiga
4 [ON] Wooded Foothills
// Creatures
2 [MOR] Lightning Crafter
1 [ON] Goblin Pyromancer
1 [ON] Goblin Sharpshooter
3 [PLC] Stingscourger
3 [SC] Goblin Warchief
4 [AP] Goblin Ringleader
2 [ON] Skirk Prospector
4 [US] Goblin Lackey
4 [CHK] Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
4 [US] Goblin Matron
1 [SC] Siege-Gang Commander
4 [ZEN] Warren Instigator
// Spells
4 [MM] Food Chain
3 [MR] Chrome Mox
// Sideboard
SB: 2 [GP] Tin Street Hooligan
SB: 4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
SB: 3 [9E] Blood Moon
SB: 4 [GP] Leyline of Lifeforce
SB: 2 [UD] Compost
1st Match: Canadian Thresh
Game 1: He starts with land go. I do land, Lackey. He land, Goyf. I land, Instigator. He drops 2nd goyf. I attack with Gator, which trades with ½ Goyf. I play Food Chain. He plays Goose, bolt Lackey, and hits. My Ringleader Gets counter, and his turn he drops yet another Goyf! My Matron is Stifled, and next turn Siege-Gang is countered.
Out: 4 Food Chain, 1 Shooter, 1 Prospector, 1 Stingscourer.
In: 4 Leyline of Lifeforce, 3 Blood Moon.
Game 2: Mull to 6 and don’t find Leyline, but keep a solid hand. My 1st turn Lackey is BeB’d his turn. 2nd Turn Lackey is Forced. 3rd Turn Moon is Dazed, and 4th Turn Moon is FoW’d. Oh! And 5th turn Ringleader Stifled. Then I soon lose.
0-1
2nd Match: Ichorid
Teammate, that concedes, due to already having the spot for the final next day.
We play 3 games, and I win the 1st 2, by comboing faster than him.
1-1
3rd Match: Merfolk
Game 1: He leads with Vial, I with Mox + Instigator. He drops Mutavault. I drop Tomb, and Champion my Gator. He drops land and pass. I play Lackey and Pass. He land and pass, I eot “bolt” him. He plays land pass “bolted” again. I draw nothing. His turn he plays land, and a lord. Then, another lord. In response I tap Crafter. He Stifles, and Vial another lord, all 4/4… His next turn he plays 2! More lords, and Standstill….
Out: 4 Food Chain
In: 4 Leyline
Game 2: Mull to 6, no Leyline. 1st turn Lackey is BeB’d his turn. 2nd Turn Gator is FoW’d. He drops that 2/1 guy. My Matron is FoW’d. He drops the 2/1 guy. My 2nd Matron is FoW’d (removing Stifle!!). he drops the 2/1. And beats me. I get to 5 Lands, and have Shooter in hand. Only need Warchief, but draw more land…
1-2
So, I’m off to a bad start, but want to test the deck, so keep playing.
4th Match: Elves.
Game 1: I drop Lackey, he Llanowar. We trade. I Matron. He drops the 2/2 and another one. I Ringleader. He drops some more elves. I Kiki, with Crafter and Prospector in hand. He plays Coat of Arms, morph and unmorph a Tribal force mage, and hit with 4 +7/+7 trampling elves.
Out: 1 Prospector, 1 Kiki, 1 Sting, 1 Chief.
In: 4 Chalice of the Void.
Game 2: I start with land go. He with the 2/2. I Sting, for tempo. He drops it again, and another. I food Chain. He drop some elves. I Ringleader, into Ringleader, into some stuff. He “ringleader”s into nothing much. I combo nest turn.
Game 3: he land, Llanowar. I land, Mox, Chalice. He K. Grip. I hit a few times, he hit a few times. He has 2 “ringleaders”, and 4 1/1’s in play, and I have a Ringleader, a Warchief, and a Instigator. I topdeck Shooter, that kills 4 guys, then Siege-Gang, that kill the rest.
2-2
5th Match: White Stax
Game 1: I drop land, go. He land, Mox, Chalice at 1. I drop Tomb, and Food Chain. He drop land + Trinisphere. I Play land, Matron, and combo trough.
In: 3 Blood Moon.
Out: 3 Sting.
Game 2: De does nothing, and I combo in Turn 4.
3-2
6th Match: TES
Game 1: I mull to 3, and lose on turn 3 or 4.
Out: 3 Sting, 1 Shooter, 1 Chief, 2 Prospector.
In: 4 Chalice, 3 Blood Moon.
Game 2: 1st turn Chalice at 1, 2nd turn Instigator, and I’d be able to combo 4th turn. He tries first, but fizzles.
Game 3: He land, go. I land, Chalice at 0, Lackey. 2 turns later I drop chalice at 1, and that’s game.
4-2
Due to Standings, I end up in 9th…
Next day, I play another event, with this changes:
MB: +1 Crafter, -1 Sting.
SB: -4 Leyline, - 3 Blood Moon, -2 Compost, + 3 Magus of the Moon, + 2 Anarchy, +3 Summoning Trap (didn’t find the 4th) +1 Pyroknesis.
Magus is better here, since Game 2 against some decks, I can side out food chain, and have 0 Enchantments in the deck, makin K. grips useless.
1st Match: Canadian (same guy)
Game 1: Don’t remember. He stays with 20 life, and I go from 20, to 18, to 14, to scoop.
Out: 1 Shooter, 2 Sting, 1 Prospector, 1 Crafter.
In: 3 Trap, 3 Magus.
Game 2: It is tuff, but I manage to connect Gator, and Win Shortly after.
Out: -3 Magus, -1 Pyromancer.
In: +4 Chalice.
Game 3: Long game. When at 10, and him at 16, I have Food Chain, and he a Goyf. I drop Matron for Ringleader. He counters. OK. I play the TRAP, getting SGC into play.I hit for 4 once, but he drops another guy. I start just blocking, and sac gobs in his face. His life does this: 12, 10, 8, 6, 4, 2, 0.
1-0
2nd Match: Canadian
Don’t remember really. He wins Game 1 and 3. I find no Traps. He has Meltdown, so I don’t side Chalice game 3.
1-1
3rd Match: Enchantress.
Game 1: 1st turn Instigator. He plays the enchant land. I drop Ringleader and Food Chain. He drops Enchantress. I combo.
Out: 2 Sting.
In: 2 Anarchy.
Game 2: He starts too slow, and I do the same thing as Game 1, only without the Mox.
2-1
4th Match: Dredge
Game 1: I lackey, he P.imp. I Sting, put Matron into play, Search for Prospector. He Dredges 6, hitting 2 Bridges and 2 Moebas (+1 Bridge discarded for P.imp). Bridges dies to Sting. I get to bounce his 2 moebas, with Sting+kiki, than combo when Matron for Crafter.
Out: 1 Sting.
In: 1 Knesis.
Game 2: He land, go. I land, mox, Gator, go. He LED, explode uses Deep Anal. Into nothing much. I drop Kiki + Crafter from Gator, and cast Prospector FTW.
3-1
4th Match: GW Homebrew
Game 1: I start with Lackey, and he with Mother of Runes. We trade. I play food Chain, and he Jitte. I ringleader, into Ringleader, into nothing much. I take him down to 14, but he K. Finks. I go to 11 because of Tombs + Fetches, and drop a 3rd Ringleader, finding no Matron, But Instigaor, Warchief and Sharpshooter. I attack with Gator, Leader, and Chief. He blocks Chief. In resp to block, I ping him with Shooter. Shooter untaps with 1st trigger, and I ping him. I attempt to untap Shooter with second trigger, to kill Finks, but he says I can’t. I explain how Shooter trigger twice, and I can use the 1st trigger, tap him, then use the 2sn trigger, but he says I can’t. I call the judge, and the judge says that though Shooter trigger twice, he only untaps ONCE! WTF! O.0 So… he equips, hit, kill shooter and Gator, dropping another guy, and winning shortly after. If Shooter had untapped, I would be able to take out his last 4 life. Oh well...
Out: somethings.
In: 4 Chalice, 1 Knesis, 2 Anarchy.
Game 2: Quite long, envolving Knesis, 2 anarchy’s, Burreton Forge Tender, StP, Tegg, Exalted Angel, Food Chain (but 0 Matrons…) and a bad Chalice at 1 lategame, while I should have dropped for 2. He topdecks 2 goyfs, and win shortly after.
3-2
End up not getting to top 4…
So, basically, to make a comparison to a “common” Goblin list:
- I lost to Canadian twice, and won once. Goblins have a bad MU against Canadian normally.
- I won against Dredge twice, without any gravehate from SB. Goblins has a hard time doing it.
- I won from Stax, and Enchantress, which goblins is bad against.
- I won against TES, which is very difficult for goblins.
- I won against Elves, which is so-so against goblins.
- I lost to Merfolk, but due to he being incredibly lucky, with 4 lords game 1, and 1 BeB and 3 FoW’s game 2.
So, overall, I think it worked better that a common goblin build would do, and I really enjoyed it. Not saying it is strictly better, just saying it is a viable option.
Hope that’s not very long. =]
how exactly does the combo work? i cant see where to get all the cards u need for a win.
You can combo:
1 - With Food Chain in Plain, 4 lands, and a Matron in hand. You get to attack with 5 4/1 hasty tokens doing some shannenigans (coping Matron, for ringleader, to untap kiki, copy matron again...). (thats how I beat Stax)
2- Kiki Jiki + Lightning Crafter + Sac outlet. (copy crafter, champion kiki. Deals 3 with copy, than sac it. kiki comes back untapped. Repeat)
3- Kiki + Crafter + Shooter. (copy kills itself, while shooter does 1 dmg and untaps. Kiki comes back untapped.)
Technically, Goblins wouldn't have had any trouble winning your first dredge match, since the player conceded. Nor would have a Ravnica preconstructed deck for that matter.
This list is interesting, I have to say though. I'm intrigued.
Hum...Quote:
Originally Posted by ScatmanX
Omg! You cought me!Quote:
Originally Posted by johanessen
Really constructive your commentary.
edited to instigator.
I do find it slightly hard to believe that Leyline of Lifeforce is good.
It protects your creatures from counters, but your Food Chains are still vulnerable, so it's not like you leave their countermagic dead. Especially boarding it in against Merfolk where their only countermagic is Force of Will, Daze, and then any BEBs that they might have boarded in (but BEBs can still shoot creatures, so again: not totally dead). Even protecting Lackey from the play (a rare start to get Leyline + Lackey), it only stops Force of Will out. Merfolk still has Cursecatcher and BEBs. On the draw, it also stops the Daze out, but Merfolk has Cursecatcher, BEB, Lord, Silvergill, Echoing Truth
Plus, it's useless off the topdeck.
I can see how you don't want your guys countered, but man, Leyline seems clunky as hell. I think I'd rather have City of Solitude or Vexing Shusher in all the situations I can think of.
I dunno, I'll stop trying to make up some situations. I think you have it in for a specific reason, but I have no idea what. Mind enlightening me/us?
The deal is, when you side Leyline in, you side Food Chain out. So basically all spells are uncaunterable. But that was kind of bad also, because the opponent sided echant hate G2.Quote:
Originally Posted by Forbiddian
That's why I moved to Summoning Trap. It is way better. I wish I could have found a 4th in the champ. And if G2 I side out Food Chain, that would leave them with useless enchant hate in hand, that I can bring back G3 if wanted.
I don't know if Vial goblins has SB space for the Trap (because it is in the slot of grave hate cards), or even if is needed, as Vial is run.
It was Chalice at 0, Lackey, Chalice at 1. That's why I lose.Quote:
Originally Posted by johanessen
Can someone who's been playing a proven gobos list (Rbg wastes/ports) comment on the naya zoo matchup?
Given that there's -not- a proven RBG Waste/Port list, probably not.Quote:
Originally Posted by sauce
Anyways, for the 100th time, Mogg War Marshal is the best weapon in this matchup. Swords to Plowshares is the second.
Yeah good call on the Marshall, it has been pretty solid, though I really do not like the card outside of the mu these days, what did you pull out of your list to make room?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacosnape
So what is the best Tribal hate to SB if you plan to SB for the Aggro or Tribal matchups?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacosnape
Pyrokenisis or Mogg War Marshall?
fair enough, i mean what would you say the percentages are in this matchup?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacosnape
FoulQ talked extensively about it a little earlier.Quote:
Originally Posted by sauce
Read his post -- it's well worth the read, but to paraphrase, he said that if Zoo knows it should be playing beatdown and then executes well, the matchup is difficult, but that many times you can trick (especially inexperienced) Zoo players into playing more defensively.
Goblins is supposed to be a cinch matchup for Zoo, and a lot more Zoo players know that factoid than know how to actually execute the win.
Lately, I've been having the problem that I'm too slow unless I have Vial or Lackey in my starting hand.
Has anybody else experimented with Simian Spirit Guide? If so, what were your results?
I'm running a MonoRed version with the following manabase:
16 Mountain
4 Wasteland
4 Simian Spirit Guide
How does it help? I mean, if you have a first turn Lackey or Vial, you can play either one anyway. If you have both, I guess that would be something...but that involves having a Goblin Lackey, AEther Vial, Simian Spirit Guide and Mountain all in your opening hand. A turn two Warchief?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bongo
"Cast AEther Vial." "Daze." "Oh, pay it with Guide! Tech!"
Yeah...doesn't seem that good to me, honestly. Plus it's not a Goblin. If you're too slow, have you tried Rishadan Port? A lot of people still run it because it can slow your opponent down and cut off a color in certain match-ups. I know FoulQ (I think it was him) still rocks 2 Ports.
Gobbos is really more about the mid-game and winning with card advantage. Through playing stuff for free (Vial, Instigator, Lackey) or getting more cards (Matron, Ringleader) or just more than one effect for one card (Siege-Gang).
I think Gobs is a monster deck, it's just metagame dependant. For me, there's too much ANT and Zoo to run it right now...but I don't think Simian Spirit Guide is the answer. It doesn't really make you any faster and after about turn three, it's a dead draw. I have not tested it, so if it's working for you, that's cool. I won't completely shit on the idea 'cause I welcome innovation...but I can't foresee it being anything that alters the deck across the board, like Instigator did when it was printed.
I think you misunderstood - I want SSG in the cases where I do NOT draw Vial or Lackey.
I understand that the strength of Goblin lies in its midgame, but the problem I've encountered was that my opponents were already ahead by the time I'm playing Ringleaders. Playing catch-up did not lead to good results, hence why I'm trying to speed the deck up with SSG.
The main purpose of SSG is to either accelerate out a Warren Instigator on the first turn or a Warchief/Chieftain on the second. This would give me a greater number of good openings.
Port is a card I played before, but started to dislike. Its usefulness dramatically decreases on the draw, and you don't want to be porting when your opponent plays a first turn Nacatl.
I can see SSG being useful by playing Warchief/chieftain Turn 2. It works kinda like the lists with Gemstone Caverns, only that Caverns are permanent and SSG is not.
It could be cool to play Vial and Lackey Turn 1 or to summon a Turn 1 Instigator, but I guess those plays fall under the category "Danger of Cool Things".