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I'm really interested in Cakes work with serum powder. I'm currently working with an LEDless version of the deck, but am going to test with the powders and the four lotus petals and hopefully be able to share some success stories!
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i will have a channel on the dredge slack where i will just post screenshots of the deck in action. unfortunately i think LED is an absolute must for this deck. if you're not playing LED, don't play serum powder. just play some safer version.
Sure, I'll agree with that, but only unfortunate if you don't already have them.:wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by mistercakes
I took my list along to a casual legacy night at the local, about 18-20 players or so.
Went 3-1, with a bye to help out organisers. Missed out on boosters by a ducks nipple.
Won against Burn 2-0, Merfolk 2-0 & UW-Stoneforge-blades 2-1. Lost to UW-Miracles 1-2
I won every game1. The Merfolk player was playing a subpar list without Force, Miracles player seemed to topdeck exactly what he needed....
Overall I liked the Powders when I had them straight up and wanted to mull, and I like that it doesn't require you to do a full blown shuffle.
I used the mull feature of Serum Powder twice, and both times I ended up with a hand with another Serum Powder.
On both occasions I held that grip.
...But I disliked them when I had one in my hand with a hand I should keep, given it's a card that has no other purpose and has no synergy with the rest of the deck.
Given I had a very lucky night with my initial grip of 7, I feel like I'll need a few more outings with it to really get a proper read on it, as I feel the greatest weakness of the card will be when you're mulling down to below 6 cards.
Lotus Petal in the main was interesting.
List was 11 lands (4 Cephalid, 7 rainbow) + 3 Petals, for a total of 14 mana sources main. Another rainbow & petal in the side.
It was good when we have a rainbow + petal, bad when we only get a petal and our opponent is playing taxing.
I should also note it's not all that flexible with Cephalid as your only land in your grip.
Against the UW-Stoneforge, he was running Thalia which completely stopped me in one game as I couldn't pay the mana to cast anything, after popping it for an early Study. Overall I liked it for it's explosiveness, but I can't help but feel Street Wraith is almost filling the same job here, just with a different set of pro's/con's.
I agree with you mistercakes, I think LEDs are the way to go as well, and it's my goal in the next 6 months to get them.
I've been playing with two petals in the main, and replacing the SB slots with two Gemstone Mines, but that could also be incorrect. I'm not sure if it matters what rainbow land you replace them with, or if it's better to cut the amount of pain you take from mana confluence / city of brass.
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Actually, Serum Powder helps LEDless dredge as well. It won't get to the same chance, because LED increases the chances considerably too, but it will make LEDless dredge open combo hands more often than LED dredge without powder. The main difference being that LED can combo T1. In my view, LED is much more competitive due to the chance of T1 combos.Quote:
Originally Posted by mistercakes
Decklist:
4 faithless looting
3 breakthrough
3 careful study
2 putrid imp
2 street wraith
4 bridge from below
4 narcomoeba
4 cabal therapy
4 ichorid
4 troll
4 stinkweed
4 thug
1 dread return
4 coliseum
4 gemstone mine
1 mana confluence
4 lotus petal
4 led
sb
1 iona
1 elesh norn
1 ashen rider
1 dread return
3 nature's claim
3 firestorm
4 leyline of the void
1 gemstone caverns
r1 delver (on play)
g1 i keep an okay hand, but he gets there with a Delver and bolts me twice for the kill turn before I catch up.
g2 i get a pretty fast standard kill
g3 he turn 1 grafdiggers, I didn't bring in all nature's claims bc I assumed wrongfully that he was playing with deathrite. I had brought in 2 firestorm 1 nature's claim.
(he was on Canadian thresh)
r2 miracles (on play)
g1 normal stuff, nothing worth mentioninng
g2 lethal on board with attack, attack with enough so that his only out is Crack fetch and hit terminus. he shuffles and hits terminus and then rest in peace.
g3 he doesn't draw hate and I kill him with ichorid after a long game.
r4 Canadian threshold. (on play)
i don't recall too much of games 1 and 2,but game 3 involved casting cabal therapy with the known info:
I have 2 guys in play after therapy, with a third next turn I can reanimator elesh norn or iona.
his hand prior: bolt bolt brainstorm daze
he brainstorms in response. I name daze. he reveals fow wasteland, bolt, land
he kills me with delivers for exactly lethal as I would have needed to hit my last 2 narcomoebas. I had only 1 ichorid during mid game.
r4 burn. (on play)
g1 i go off on turn 1
g2 I iona on turn 3
r5 Esper stoneblade (on play)
g1 i go off on t1
g2 I go off on t1 (with a luck counter)
r6 death and taxes (on play)
g1 i go off t1 (he concedes before I see a card)
g2 I go off of turn 2
r7 eureka show (on draw)
g1 i hit his show and tell while he's holding show, Griselbrand, ugin.he draws show and tell the following turn and kills me the turn after.
g2 got there with beats. he had living wished for containment, but had to chump.
g3 he t3 containment priest and then when we fight back and forth. he draws another living wish and plays peacekeepers. I start drawing cards as my know out is to cast ashen rider. (I had street wraith in the deck, and storm player can figure out that line) I never drew enough mana sources and by the time I was close he had drawn too much counter magic.
r8 Esper stoneblade (on draw)
he goes t1 DrS. I play led. it resolves. then Crack to cast faithless looting. (I planned on playing DDD, but shaman made me want to rush it. he fow'd the faithless, and after a long game deathrite finally was accompanied by a monastery mentor.
g2 long game, I try firestorm but he fow'd. he messes up with surgical extraction and chooses to gamble by exiting faithless looting (he figured his mentor, DrS and tokens would deal with my bridges) 3 turns later ichorid and 6 zombies kill him.
g3 he plays island go. I choose to DDD grave troll. do this again and again (hoping to bait out a surgical, I had street wraith in hand)
he plays a Jace, and bounces my token. I have narco out. I try to firestorm my narco opponent and me, but he has force... again. we played it out for a few turns, but I succumbed to top much grave hate + DrS + mentor.
i dropped at 4-4 and thought it was a good run for a first time (although I have played a lot of modo)
tldr:
lose, win, win, lose, win, win, lose, lose
overall thoughts:
i really am still behind the lotus petal list. it has some inconsistency at times, but i prefer to win when my opponent plays a t1 deathrite shaman. (i watched the finals that Que had played vs a delver deck, and that 3rd game more or less is a good example of what the deck does turn 1)
i think in the next version of this list (been trying on modo), i will cut the 1 mana confluence and play a darkblast, cut 2 street wraith and play a dread return #2, and a flayer of the hatebound. -1 ichorid + 1 breakthrough.
i may cut the putrid imps all together to run the mana confluence again, and a careful study #4.
this hurts the deck vs grafdiggers cage and leyline of the void, but should ensure more game 1 wins unless if they have multiple counters.
Only running 3 Icky's I find works just fine, however I'd be careful cutting all your non-dredger food for your Icky's.Quote:
Originally Posted by mistercakes
I keep going back to running a bare minimum of 3 of either Wraith and/or Pimp solely for this reason.
Don't forget that Deathrite Shaman is hopeless against Street Wraith.
Being a longtime Manaless player, I get your idea for Flayer of the Hatebound but I've never wanted it in LED-dredge.
Reason being, hitting 2 Dread Returns in the same turn (1st Flayer, 2nd GGT) is how you win the game with it, and that demands deck space to optimize that line of play.
Flayer works in Manaless because your graveyard is almost all creatures, but it's a bit different here in LED-dredge.
Feel free to test it out though, let us know how you go.
Hey guys, lost my last post ... I need some major help , im new to dredge, I was an omni guy and run affinity in modern... I see several verisons of dredge here ... I have parts for all of them ... I have a tourny dec 12 ... I know our local meta is grixis and lands ... Need a list and sideboard help until I figure this deck out
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Read the primer, Quads still my go to or go to tcdecks.net and look up Dredge.
I have been reading / watching everything I can ... Not much useful info for sideboards that I can fine its all seems different depending on the build
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For Grixis I would run the Lotus Petal sideboard with either Nature's Claim or Abrupt Decay. They will try to tax you with cards like Spell Pierce and Daze. Having the Lotus Petals will help a lot in this situation and they put you on parity game 2.Quote:
Originally Posted by cchichy
For Lands I don't have much other than try to combo them out asap which is where the lotus petals come into play (again) along with something like Iona to turn off Green. I my experience you cannot afford to play around something like Crop Rotation which is the only card you should probably be naming with Cabal Therapy if they're tapped out. If you wait they will start to find their annoying pieces like Tabernacle and Maze of Ith to stop your zombies or giant Troll not to mention Bojuka Bog.
Also an out against Tabernacle has got to be Ichorid in that it misses the Tabernacle trigger completely and allows you to keep beating down even if you don't have any lands in play.
The problem is that they will likely get Glacial Chasm before Tabernacle since it game over for us unless we have a DR work around, like Rider.Quote:
Originally Posted by Que
Okay, so I went along again last night to the local. Went 3-2
Beat Manaless Dredge (ha ha!), some Zombie-Combo deck and a Stasis deck running Horn of Greed and Swords.
I lost to BUG c/o counter, Ooze & DRS killing my action in games 2 & 3, after I won game1.
Other loss to Combo Elves who was just faster after I mulled into nothing in game1.
Not a very good turn out.
The Stasis deck was a new one for me, not seen anyone play Horn of Greed before. He combed out pretty fast but seemed to run out of gas, like he just didn't draw the right cards to make combo stick, maybe? I'm gonna need to research this deck!
The Zombie deck failed to fire and both times I just killed him with Therapies before he could do anything.
I have no idea what the deck was trying to do - he was cagey afterwards and didn't seem to want to talk much.:really: Meh
I ran no Serum Powder's, 3 P.imp, 2 Wraith, 3 Icky, 1 DR, 8 Rainbows, 4 Cephalids & 2 Petals main.
2 Petal and a Rainbow in the side, along with 3 Nature's CLaims, 2 Decays, 3 Firestorms, a DR, 2 Rider, 1 Iona.
Liking this list.
I'm not going to be adding much that the other guys have said.Quote:
Originally Posted by cchichy
I find a side is heavily dependant on what your list looks like main and what you expect to face.
For lands and Grixis, ^^^^ what they said.
Grixis can be tough as they can kill our Bridges quite easily, so I try to hold priority and think out my turns carefully to get maximum value from Bridge.
Brought the deck to a 3-1 finish at this month's Legacy FNM which got me 4th place in standing.
Round 1: Enchantress; Turn 2 RIP both games. I had removal for it in game 2 but they had Enlightened Tutor to fetch a backup copy.
0-2
Round 2: UB Mill; What happens when a Mill deck fights a self-mill deck? I get out Iona on Black and overwhelm them with zombies. I went Black over Blue because I saw Reanimate, Unearth, and Haunting Echoes.
2-0
Round 3: Belcher; They fizzled game 1, Belched me out game 2, game 3 they made 8 goblins on turn 1 and I outraced them. It was closer than I'd have liked as I just didn't hit any Bridges which would have ended the game faster.
2-1
Round 4: Lands; Game 1 they had Tabernacle + Glacial Chasm and while I waited there was never a turn where they didn't have Chasm up. Game 2 I made a horde of zombies and a large GGT on turn 2 forcing them to have Chasm. They didn't. Game 3 I made a horde of zombies and a larger GGT forcing them to draw Chasm. They did. I dredged through the rest of my deck getting Ashen Rider out to kill their Chasm and swing with a personal record number of zombie tokens, 17, which matched the size of my Troll.
2-1
6-4 overall.
As you can, apart from the UB Mill deck it was a fairly rough night for me.
Other decks that were there that night were Miracles, BUG, Grixis, Elves, and a Stasis-Restore Balance brew. Other decks that show up often are RUG Delver, Aggro Loam, TES, and D&T.
I've been running the same main deck for a while, 3 Thug, 3 Breakthrough, 3 Putrid Imp, 1 DR, 1 Iona, 1 Darkblast, 4 of everything else.
The sideboard I went with was:
3 Leyline of the Void
3 Firestorm
2 Ingot Chewer
1 Ancient Grudge
2 Whispmare
1 Dread Return
1 Elesh Norn
1 Ashen Rider
1 Lotus Petal
The Lotus Petal I ran because I couldn't figure out a 15th card I wanted to run so I just went, "eh, it can cast me an extra spell on turn 1/2." I brought it in against Enchantress and Belcher hoping to get a bit more speed but never drew it.
Any suggestions on what I should run as the last card?
I'm thinking maybe a second Ashen Rider but I'm honestly not sure what I want in that spot.
Claims? I'm kinda surprised you have so few answers to RiP/Cage etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by gibbousm
But looking at the plan you're going with, I'd consider either another Rider or an Iona. I find Iona is a sterling addition to shut down most decks, provided you can get past counter.
http://mythicspoiler.com/ogw/cards/naturalstate.html
Do we have a new baby boy? Goodbye Nature's claim?
It does not take care of Leyline of the Void.
Yeah, I've been trying to weigh the costs/benefits Natural State over Nature's Claim. So the 4 life doesn't matter in a lot of games but when it does matter, it matters A LOT. However, I feel the fact that you can Claim a Leyline of the Void means that Claim is still better than State.
Also you know that B/X Eldrazi deck flying around everywhere in Modern? Someone at my LGS brought a Legacy version of it to FNM. Maindecked LotV and DRS instead of whatever it is Modern is using.
Not to mention fighting a field of stages protecting chasm/tab/mazes in this scenario. Terastodon is old tech, but could be useful here. Leyline if you got them.Quote:
Originally Posted by igri_is_a_bk
Thanks for the headsup.:cool:
I tend to agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by gibbousm
State is nice, and I might give them a test, but I don't feel I need to replace my Claims. I still see LotV occasionally....