[Deck] Zoo

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Originally Posted by jandax

Over the last six months, how many of you (us) Zoo players have been feeling about SB graveyard hate?

Personally, I'm scared to run anything less than three slots, Crypts or what have you. I'm curious to see how people build their sideboards for this particular deck.

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I've been running 3-4 Faerie Macabre and sometimes a Bojuka Bog. The Macabres are great against Reanimator, which were extremely popular for a while. It also does double duty against ANT (but not good against TES), because sometimes you blow them out when they were counting on IGG or Cabal Ritual; it's not the greatest, but I don't devote a whole lot of slots to storm combo right now.

Kind of sucks against other graveyard decks like Dredge, but I don't get paired against Dredge as often as I do the other decks.

Lately my sideboard has been mostly dedicated to the combo match up. I've upped to 4 Tormod's Crypt and have a variation of hate for storm/show and tell/blue-based control decks.

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Originally Posted by RaNDoMxGeSTuReS

Lately my sideboard has been mostly dedicated to the combo match up. I've upped to 4 Tormod's Crypt and have a variation of hate for storm/show and tell/blue-based control decks.

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You're much better off with a split of some sort rather than 4x anything. Having played Dredge online, you make my job much easier when I know exactly what to Needle. If you run 1xCrypt, 1xRelic, 1xNihil and 1xLoaming Shaman/Macabre/Surgical Extraction/whatever (or 2/1/1 or even a 2/2 split on the artifacts) it's much more difficult because one, I can't shut you down with a single Needle and two, a pre-emptive Needle has a 75% chance of naming the wrong thing if I'm not leading into it with Therapy.

I love Wheel of Sun and Moon, personally. Can't cast it till turn 2, but it just plain shuts down a lot of decks if it hits.

Two questions from someone that is really liking playing Zoo, but doesn't have that much real experience with the archetype:

1. Amidst all the hype about Misstep, how much does Zoo really need to worry about it. From what I can tell it was pretty quickly dismissed just because of the quality and number of 1-drops in the deck. Has anyone done enough testing to confirm that this is the case and there's no need to try and reduce the number of 1 cmc cards?

2. Has anyone messed around with an E. Tutor-based board? 4 E. Tutors in the board would let you run a greater variety of hate, and gives access to all kinds of fun stuff like Canonist, Revoker, Dueling Grounds, Ground Seal, Wheel of Sun & Moon, Null Rod, Jitte, and so on.

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Originally Posted by Richard Cheese

Two questions from someone that is really liking playing Zoo, but doesn't have that much real experience with the archetype:

1. Amidst all the hype about Misstep, how much does Zoo really need to worry about it. From what I can tell it was pretty quickly dismissed just because of the quality and number of 1-drops in the deck. Has anyone done enough testing to confirm that this is the case and there's no need to try and reduce the number of 1 cmc cards?

2. Has anyone messed around with an E. Tutor-based board? 4 E. Tutors in the board would let you run a greater variety of hate, and gives access to all kinds of fun stuff like Canonist, Revoker, Dueling Grounds, Ground Seal, Wheel of Sun & Moon, Null Rod, Jitte, and so on.

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1. If you're playing fast Zoo, you trade a card for two of their life. You're still semi-on track with that result. What you need to be worried about is a Chalice on one. A Mental Misstep doesn't cause worry, it is a card to sometimes play around.

2. Somewhere in this thread and in others people have run a lot of different packages (SFM, GSZ, En. Tutor). If having this package answers specific things you run up against in your area, then it's a metagame choice one has to make.

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Originally Posted by SpikeyMikey

You're much better off with a split of some sort rather than 4x anything. Having played Dredge online, you make my job much easier when I know exactly what to Needle. If you run 1xCrypt, 1xRelic, 1xNihil and 1xLoaming Shaman/Macabre/Surgical Extraction/whatever (or 2/1/1 or even a 2/2 split on the artifacts) it's much more difficult because one, I can't shut you down with a single Needle and two, a pre-emptive Needle has a 75% chance of naming the wrong thing if I'm not leading into it with Therapy.

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I'm trying to throw together a sb with splash hate for:

Dredge
GW Natural Order
Sneaky Show
Burn
Thresh
Eva Depths
Tribal
High Tide
Dragon Stompy
Faerie Stompy
Affinity
MUD

So far it's not working too well. Help :)?

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Originally Posted by cdr

Already been done: http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=37566

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Oh nice.

Now would you recommend the version with steppe lynx or the version with kird apes/loam lion?

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Originally Posted by RaNDoMxGeSTuReS

I'm trying to throw together a sb with splash hate for:

Dredge
GW Natural Order
Sneaky Show
Burn
Thresh
Eva Depths
Tribal
High Tide
Dragon Stompy
Faerie Stompy
Affinity
MUD

So far it's not working too well. Help :)?

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for my experience playing zoo just put sideboard that you really have the smallest percentage of winning, for zoo it is difficult to win first game to combo decks and cb decks as my experience playing against this deck..

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Originally Posted by RaNDoMxGeSTuReS

I'm trying to throw together a sb with splash hate for:

Dredge
GW Natural Order
Sneaky Show
Burn
Thresh
Eva Depths
Tribal
High Tide
Dragon Stompy
Faerie Stompy
Affinity
MUD

So far it's not working too well. Help :)?

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This is the field at your LGS? And you're running a creature heavy Cat Sligh? That seems like a really unfriendly environment; you're facing off against decks that are dropping big creatures early. Seems like a much better field to be playing something like Thopters in.

I think the Serenity's you have the in the board are a good start. But You need to get sneaky if you want to beat that field. I would say 4xHonorable Passage is a given. It's very good against Burn and Goblins, but it's also a beating against RPD's out of DStompy and it'll turn Progenitus into a suicide bomb. Ensnaring Bridge is a good call against MUD, Affinity and Sneak 'n' Show. You can burn them out with 10 burn and PoP while you hide behind Bridge.

So perhaps:

4 Honorable Passage
2 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Price of Progress
2 Serenity
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Nihil Spellbomb


You're dead in board to High Tide, but you can try to race that. Cannonist is the only thing you could board in that would possibly hurt them; that or Thorn/Glowrider, but Cannonist doesn't have any other applications. Sphere effects would, but they'd also interfere with your burn spells, slowing down your kill. It would stop Dread Return out of Dredge (and Breakthrough or a number of other draw effects). Since Dredge and High Tide are both combo kills, you can't afford to slow yourself down as much or more than you're slowing them down. 3 yard hate spells is 1 less than you really want, but also keep in mind that G2 they're planning on playing around you mulling for a yard hate spell. So don't. They'll keep a slower more defensive hand g2 with Ancient Grudge or Pithing Needle, not necessarily a hand that can go ape shit right away. As long as you have a quick clock, you can often surprise them G2 and then mull for the yard hate G3. Keep them guessing.

Another option would be to put an extra KotR in board and go to 10 fetches main so you can fit a Wasteland. Wasteland is a good option to have against Depths or decks using Sol lands. But off the top of my head, I like the Passage board. It's tech from the original RGW Zoo deck half a dozen years ago, and there's nothing like old forgotten tech to really twist the knife.

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Originally Posted by SpikeyMikey

This is the field at your LGS? And you're running a creature heavy Cat Sligh? That seems like a really unfriendly environment; you're facing off against decks that are dropping big creatures early. Seems like a much better field to be playing something like Thopters in.

I think the Serenity's you have the in the board are a good start. But You need to get sneaky if you want to beat that field. I would say 4xHonorable Passage is a given. It's very good against Burn and Goblins, but it's also a beating against RPD's out of DStompy and it'll turn Progenitus into a suicide bomb. Ensnaring Bridge is a good call against MUD, Affinity and Sneak 'n' Show. You can burn them out with 10 burn and PoP while you hide behind Bridge.

So perhaps:

4 Honorable Passage
2 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Price of Progress
2 Serenity
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Nihil Spellbomb


You're dead in board to High Tide, but you can try to race that. Cannonist is the only thing you could board in that would possibly hurt them; that or Thorn/Glowrider, but Cannonist doesn't have any other applications. Sphere effects would, but they'd also interfere with your burn spells, slowing down your kill. It would stop Dread Return out of Dredge (and Breakthrough or a number of other draw effects). Since Dredge and High Tide are both combo kills, you can't afford to slow yourself down as much or more than you're slowing them down. 3 yard hate spells is 1 less than you really want, but also keep in mind that G2 they're planning on playing around you mulling for a yard hate spell. So don't. They'll keep a slower more defensive hand g2 with Ancient Grudge or Pithing Needle, not necessarily a hand that can go ape shit right away. As long as you have a quick clock, you can often surprise them G2 and then mull for the yard hate G3. Keep them guessing.

Another option would be to put an extra KotR in board and go to 10 fetches main so you can fit a Wasteland. Wasteland is a good option to have against Depths or decks using Sol lands. But off the top of my head, I like the Passage board. It's tech from the original RGW Zoo deck half a dozen years ago, and there's nothing like old forgotten tech to really twist the knife.

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That is the field at my LGS. I normally play TES, Reanimator or Painted Stone. Zoo's my other deck.

I'll most definitely give this board a shot. It seems very interesting. As for Ensnaring Bridge, wouldn't Orim's Chant be better to slow them down? I'm probably dead before I can drop bridge on turn 3 anyway.

4 Wild Nacatl
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Kird Ape
2 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant
2 Knight of the Reliquary

4 Path to Exile
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lightning Bolt

1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

2 Plateau
2 Taiga
1 Savannah
4 Arid Mesa
3 Wooded Foothills
3 Bloodstained Mire
1 Badlands
1 Bayou
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Scrubland
Sideboard:
2 Krosan Grip
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Gaddock Teeg
3 Duress
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Ravenous Trap
3 Engineered Plague
1 Sword of Feast and Famine

Any changes to MD, SB, or Mana base?

IMO, splashing black for Dark Confidant is not worth it. Your decks rolls over and dies to Stifle and Wasteland. The black sideboard cards aren't really necessary either.

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Originally Posted by trivial_matters

IMO, splashing black for Dark Confidant is not worth it. Your decks rolls over and dies to Stifle and Wasteland. The black sideboard cards aren't really necessary either.

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Yeah, 20 lands and 4 colors makes baby Jeebus cry. I'd run Basilisk Collar main over SoFI with the SFM package. Not only does Collar let you win goyf wars, if you've got a Lavamancer out, it becomes Visara the Dreadful.

One should mention that SoFI lets you win Goyf wars as well. Just for the sake of complete information.

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Originally Posted by Julian23

One should mention that SoFI lets you win Goyf wars as well. Just for the sake of complete information.

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True. It's mostly because it's a beast with 'mancer.

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Originally Posted by SpikeyMikey

True. It's mostly because it's a beast with 'mancer.

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And shooting down Emrakuls is just that cool.

Ok, so drop the black splash? What should I play instead of BoB? More burn?

Just wanna say congrats to Rafael Garcia, who placed 6th out of 633 (!) players with Big Zoo:

Business (40)
3 Grim Lavamancer
3 Noble Hierarch
4 Wild Nacatl
1 Gaddock Teeg
3 Tarmogoyf
3 Qasali Pridemage
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Terravore
3 Green Sun’s Zenith
2 Elspeth, Knight Errant
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Lightning Helix
4 Path to Exile
2 Sylvan Library

Lands (21)
1 Karakas
2 Horizon Canopy
3 Wooded Foothills
2 Windswept Heath
4 Arid Mesa
1 Dryad Arbor
3 Taiga
2 Plateau
1 Savannah
1 Forest
1 Mountain

Sideboard (15)
3 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Null Rod
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Tormod’s Crypt
1 Bojuka Bog
3 Choke
2 Krosan Grip

Any thoughts on the list? With the impact of Mental Misstep, is overloading on 1 drops the better choice or minimizing on 1 drops better? I'm more inclined to say that Big Zoo is slightly better now but who knows.

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Originally Posted by Ziveeman

Just wanna say congrats to Rafael Garcia, who placed 6th out of 633 (!) players with Big Zoo:

Business (40)
3 Grim Lavamancer
3 Noble Hierarch
4 Wild Nacatl
1 Gaddock Teeg
3 Tarmogoyf
3 Qasali Pridemage
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Terravore
3 Green Sun’s Zenith
2 Elspeth, Knight Errant
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Lightning Helix
4 Path to Exile
2 Sylvan Library

Lands (21)
1 Karakas
2 Horizon Canopy
3 Wooded Foothills
2 Windswept Heath
4 Arid Mesa
1 Dryad Arbor
3 Taiga
2 Plateau
1 Savannah
1 Forest
1 Mountain

Sideboard (15)
3 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Null Rod
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Tormod’s Crypt
1 Bojuka Bog
3 Choke
2 Krosan Grip

Any thoughts on the list? With the impact of Mental Misstep, is overloading on 1 drops the better choice or minimizing on 1 drops better? I'm more inclined to say that Big Zoo is slightly better now but who knows.

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I prefer overloading with 1 drops. I was playing against Merfolk and the player MM'd my turn 1 Steppe Lynx. I dropped Wild Nacatl and Grim Lavamancer on turn 2.