[Primer] Elves!

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Originally Posted by Julian23

Deck felt really strong and required my Miracles opponent to go through three critical Terminus and an Entreat as I had lethal damage on every third turn. Don't ask me about the sideboard though; I'm trying out so many different things right now as things have been a bit shaken up and Miracles apparently keeps slowly climbing to the top of the US meta as well. With all my focus on #GPNJ and #SCGRICH in November, I'm still lost in balancing my sideboard between the three most important enemies: Delver, Miracles and Combo. For now I have only found configurations that will cover two of those three.

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Some questions:
Why no Ruric if you're expecting combo? At least on Friday at Prague Eternal, the meta broke down so that Storm was the third-most played deck (behind Miracles & RUG). Having some game maindeck should be a part of the equation IMO.

My attempt at cracking a Miracles/Delver/Combo meta with Elves, assuming combo is largely Storm, Elves and Leyline-less S&T. Pretty much the same as the last one, but reverted Warcaller back to Nettle for more smoothness and turned the Llanowar Elves into an explosiveness option in Priest. It's not there as a "so mana such absurd wow" card. It's there as a result of asking where I'd actually want the Llanowar. Most cases, getting DRS/Arbor instead would be just fine, or the situation allows for the Priest and it's better. Not omgwtfbbq better, just a bit. Allows that extra dude to swing with Hoof, rebuilds post-sweeper a bit faster, small stuff. There are definitely nutcase scenarios but those are a bonus. Sometimes those extra lines win.

I think the greedy maindeck is necessary if you want to cover all the bases, though. Not because it improves G1 percentages so much, but because it frees up space in the board and allows you to play good numbers of good cards to cover matchups.

Maindeck: (61 cards, 12 spells 19 lands)
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Quirion Ranger

4 Wirewood Symbiote
4 Elvish Visionary

1 Birchlore Rangers
3 Nettle Sentinel
3 Heritage Druid

2 Craterhoof Behemoth

1 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Priest of Titania
1 Wren's Run Packmaster

4 Glimpse of Nature
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Natural Order

4 Gaea's Cradle
2 Dryad Arbor
2 Bayou
2 Forest

4 Wooded Foothills
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Windswept Heath
1 Verdant Catacombs

Sideboard:
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Null Rod
1 Progenitus
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Bitterblossom
4 Cabal Therapy
1 Thoughtseize

Two questions,

@ Julian, the Pendelhaven you've been running, how is that for you? What scenarios has it come out on top for you? I apologize if this has been discussed recently, I've been out of the loop obviously.

And also, is anyone going to be in Somerset at the end of the month for either the Invitational or the Open?

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Originally Posted by yaWgnorW

Two questions,

@ Julian, the Pendelhaven you've been running, how is that for you? What scenarios has it come out on top for you? I apologize if this has been discussed recently, I've been out of the loop obviously.

And also, is anyone going to be in Somerset at the end of the month for either the Invitational or the Open?

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I'm not Julian but i've also been running a pendelhaven. It's really good. It makes your 1/1s be able to block lackey, attack through sfm, live a golgari charm, attack into a flipped delver, and more.

Hey guys,

After a few months away from Magic, I finally could spare the time to play a tournament.

There were 45 players there, and I got my ass severely beaten up. My matches were:

R1) vs. MIRACLES = 0 x 1
R2) vs. UWR DELVER = 0 x 2
R3) vs. ANT = 1 x 2
R4) vs. BURN = 2 x 0
R5) vs. AFFINITY = 0 x 2
R6) vs. MONO BLUE CONTROL = 2 x 0

Yeah, there were some unexpected decks there, and I found out that the room was full of Tundras.
It was awfull to start the event facing, in a row, our most dreadful MUs (Miracles, Delver, Combo). :cry:

The first match against Miracles was in reality a single slow game that took us 50 minutes!
It was very frustrating to reduce him to 1 life point and not be able to seal the deal because of the chain of Terminuses, Counterbalance + TOP, Jace and random permission/removal...
Just after he was able to find an Entreat the Angels and kill me, the round time was called. :rolleyes:

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Anyway, not related to this specific tournament, but I want to ask you something about the Burn MU:


Q:- How often do you find yourselves chumpblocking (and not trading) in this MU?
Specially in the early game, when you cannot infer their speed precisely (and your own, maybe)?



I guess the question is about the value of our creatures here.

For I noticed that:

1. if I'm able to trade with their guys (1 to 1), I block willingly;
   
2. If I'm not going to trade with them (1 to 1), I tend to avoid chumpblock in order to try to preserve a "critical mass" of guys, for whenever I draw a Natural Order, it became lethal;

However, some of the times when I lose this match, I realize that if I could have prevented the loss of some points of life (e.g., by chumpblocking an earlier attacker), I could have won on the following turn.

Now that they get this Eidolon of the Great Revel, I think this MU is little more annoying. Good that we have Reclamation Sage MD for it (GSZ'ing for it costs 4 and doesn't damage us).


Any tips regarding this matter?

E.g., - a) If possible, should I still trade in a "card disadvantageous" way? [2 to 1]

E.g., - b) How do you approach a Hellspark Elemental (from lists a little outdated)? I generally don't block him because it does not seem to accomplish me nothing...

E.g., - c) When facing a resolved Eidolon, do you still cast some creatures (and take damage) in order to still have a kill, should you draw a Natural Order? Or do you wait and do nothing, gathering mana until you can cast a NO or a GSZ > Reclamation Sage?

I run Beta Forests and Future Sight Dryad Arbors. Only deck I bother foiling is my Vintage deck. I had my Elves deck a long time so beta land is nice. Although those Korean APAC forests look nice.

I been on the splash blue since Spell Pierce was printed since it helps with the Miracles and Combo match ups. Switched to Swan Song since it straight out counters most combo pieces or Counterbalance/Terminus.

List I been running online and in real life. Only recent change is adding the Reclamation Sage instead of Viridian Shaman but I been considering trying a few things.

Creatures (29)
1 Birchlore Rangers
2 Craterhoof Behemoth
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Elvish Visionary
3 Heritage Druid
1 Llanowar Elves
3 Nettle Sentinel
4 Quirion Ranger
1 Reclaimation Sage
1 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
1 Scavenging Ooze
4 Wirewood Symbiote


Spells (11)
4 Glimpse of Nature
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Natural Order

Lands (20)
2 Bayou
2 Dryad Arbor
2 Forest
4 Gaea's Cradle
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Tropical Island
1 Wooded Foothills

Sideboard (15)
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Mindbreak Trap
1 Natural Order
2 Pithing Needle
1 Progenitus
3 Swan Song
4 Thoughtseize


Run Ruric Thar main if expecting combo, Progenitus if expecting more fair decks with removal. Local meta has a decent amount of combo and burn though.

I like main deck Scavenging Ooze because it is good vs grave yard decks and is a decent back up play to Green Sun's Zenith for if your board gets wiped.

Considerations.
1. Replacing the 9th Fetch with either a Taiga to cast Ruric Thar or a Pendelhaven to pump an elf against Golbins and Delver.

2. Cut something to try out Wren's Run Packmaster. Not sure on what. Any ideas? Not to keen on running 61 or cutting a land.

Sideboarding plans.
BUG Delver
+3 Abrupt Decay +3 Thoughtseize, +1 Natural Order, +1 Progenitus,
-2 Heritage Druid, -2 Nettle Sentinel, -1 Reclamation Sage -1 Craterhoof Behemoth, -1 Ruric Thar, -1 Glimpse of Nature
Abrupt Decay to kill annoying things like Grafdigger's Cage, or Engineered Plague or sometimes Delvers.
Thoughtseize hard counters like Force or blow out spells like Toxic Deluge, Golgari Charm.
Progenitus plan is the way to go since they can kill enough of your elves so that hoofing doesn't quite get there and Ruric Thar must attack so often dies to multi blocks so isn't worth it.

Belcher
+4 Thoughtseize, +3 Swan Song, +1 mindbreak Trap +1 Natural Order, +2 Pithing Needle
-1 Craterhoof behemoth, -1 dryad arbor, -2 Elvish Visionary, -3 Wirewood Symbiote, -1 Nettle Sentinel, -1 Glimpse of Nature, -1 Scavenging Ooze, -1 heritage Druid.
Plan is to hoof them or just get Ruric. Bring in all the disruption. hopefully they don't kill you turn 1.

Burn
+3 Abrupt Decay, +1 Natural Order
-1 Elvish Visionary, -1 Craterhoof Behemoth, -1 Heritage Druid, -1 Glimpse of Nature
You want Abrupt Decay to kill Eidolon and Sulfuric Vortex. Extra Natural Order since Natural Order for Hoof or Ruric Thar asap to race.

Death and Taxes
+3 Abrupt Decay +2 Pithing Needle, +1 Natural Order, +1 Progenitus
-2 Heritage Druid, -2 Nettle Sentinel, -2 Glimpse of Nature, -1 Ruric Thar
Needle to name Vial, Jitte, Mother of Runs protecting Mindcensor, Wasteland or Port depending on the situation.
Natural Order for Progenitus usually wins. Have to watch out for Aven Mindcensor though.

Dredge
+3 Thoughtseize
-1 Reclamation Sage, -1 Elvish Visionary, -1 Ruric Thar
Its a race, try and thoughtseize their Careful Study, Breakthrough to slow them down so you can hoof them before they kill you.

Elf mirror
+4 Thoughtseize, +1 Swan Song
-1 Reclamation Sage, -1 Ruric Thar, -2 Elvish Visionary, -1 Scavenging Ooze
This is all who can hoof first so pull out the slow things you don't need. Thoughtseize and Swan Song for their Natural Order.


Goblins
On the Draw
+2 Pithing Needle
-1 Ruric Thar, THe Unbowed, -1 Heritage Druid
On the Play
+3 Abrupt Decay, +2 Pithing Needle
-1 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed, -1 Heritage Druid, -1 Glimpse of Nature, -1 Nettle Sentinel,
Needle for Vial. Might be worth bringing in Abrupt Decay on the play since you can use it to kill Lackey before it connects.


Jund
+3 Abrupt Decay +1 Natural Order +1 Progenitus,
-2 Heritage Druid -1 Reclamation Sage, -1 Ruric Thar, -1 Craterhoof Behemoth
You need Abrupt Decay to kill Dark Confidant so they don't draw too much discard. Progenitus is the way to go since they don't have too many ways of dealing with it other then Liliana if its your only creature.

Merfolk
+2 Pithing Needle
-1 Ruric Thar, The Unbowed
-1 Heritage Druid
Needle to name Vial or if they don't have Vial name Mutavault. Naming Vial slows them down by a couple turns which enables you to win before they can.


Miracles
In 3 Abrupt Decay, 2 Pithing Needle, 3 Swan Song 1 Natural Order, +1 Progenitus
Out -2 Heritage Druid, -2 Glimpse of Nature, -2 Nettle Sentinel, -1 Craterhoof Behemoth, -1 Quiron Ranger -1 Elvish Visionary
This is the worst match up for Elves with counters and sweepers. Don't commit too much to the board because of Terminus. Needle on Top helps quite a bit. You have Abrupt Decay for Counter Balance and Swan Song for Terminus. Progenitus plan is better then hoof because they need Terminus or Supreme Verdict to get rid of it.

Omnitell
+4 Thoughtseize, +3 Swan Song, +1 Natural Order
-2 Elivsh Visionary -2 Wirewood Symbiote, -1 Heritage Druid, -1 Nettle Sentinel, -1 Scavenging Ooze
Ruric prevents them from winning unless they bounce him so if you can't hoof for the kill just get Ruric.

Maverick
+3 Abrupt Decay, +1 Natural Order, +1 Progenitus
-1 Ruric Thar, -2 Glimpse of Nature, -1 Heritage Druid, -2 Nettle Sentinel
You want Decay to kill their Knights. Progenitus plan because they run Swords.

Painter
+3 Abrupt Decay +2 Thoughtseize, +2 Pithing Needle,
-1 Ruric Thar,-2 Nettle Sentinel, -1 CratorHoof Behemoth, -2 Heritage Druid, -1 Glimpse of Nature
Disrupt their combo so you can go off faster. Fetch basic forest first to not get blown out by bloodmoon.

Reanimator:
+4 Thoughtseize, +3 Swan song
-1 Reclamation Sage, -1 Heritage, -1 Symbiote, -1 Visionary, -1 Ruric, -1 Arbor, -1 Glimpse

RUG Delver
On play same as BUG Delver
On the Draw
+3 Abrupt Decay +3-4 Thoughtseize
-3 Natural Order. -2 Crater hoof Behemoth, -1 Ruric Thar, -1 Reclamation Sage(keep sage if they board in Grafdigger's Cage)

Shardless BUG
+2-3 Abrupt Decay, +2 Thoughtseize, +1 Natural Order, +1 Progenitus
-1 Birchlore Rangers, -1 Ruric Thar, -1 Craterhoof Behemoth, -2 Heritage Druid, -1 Nettle Sentinel
They don't have a way to kill Progenitus other the Liliana which doesn't work if you have an extra elf to sacrifice so that is your plan afterboard. Cage is bad so you might want the full 3 decays. Thoughtseize to take Golgari charm.

Sneak and Show
+3 Thoughtseize, +3 Swan Song, +2 Pitching Needle
-1 Crater, -1 Glimpse, -1 Ruric, -2 Heritage, -2 Nettle, -1 Quirion
Thoughtseize their combo peices and Needle Sneak Attack, Swan Song counters both Show and Tell and Sneak Attack along with their counters so is very good.

Storm
+4 Thoughtseize, +3 Swan Song, +1 mindbreak Trap +1 Natural Order
-1 Craterhoof Behemoth, -1 dryad arbor, -2 Elvish Visionary, -3 Wirewood Symbiote, -1 Nettle Sentinel, -1 Glimpse of Nature
Plan is to natural order for Ruric Thar which unless they boarded in bounce to bounce it they can't win. Thoughtseize Swan Song, Mindbreak to stop their combo.

UWR Delver
+3 Abrupt Decay, +2 Thoughtseize, +2 Pithing Needle, +1 Natural order, +1 Progenitus
-3 Heritage Druid, -3 Nettle Sentinel, -2 Glimpse of Nature, -1 Craterhoof behemoth
Progenitus Plan again. Needles for Lavamancer and Jitte

@Julian
How do you like Wren's Run Packmaster? Does the champion become an issue? Zenith for 5 is probably a tall order after a board wipe and you need an elf to champion.

@Zombie
Not to keen on 61 cards in a combo deck. How does 19 lands work out for you? How is Wren's Run Packmaster. I haven't tried it out yet myself but am skeptical with it costing 4 makes it hard to Zenith for and the champion requires a creature so its not very good if your board just got wiped. I prefer Needle to Null Rod since if you go first you can cast it turn 1 before Miracles gets to play a land to Spell Pierce and it also stops Jace.

@AndreBonotto
Burn is a race can they burn you out before you hoof them? I dislike chump blocking because they can burn your elves in response to hoof so you need every single one. Only chump block if its lethal. Pyrokinesis is really bad news.

Casting elves with Eidolon out depends on the board and what I have in my hand and life totals if I can get lethal next turn without hurting my life so that he can burn me out I will commit. Sometimes I will just sit and wait and let them burn me a few times hurting themselves. Depends if they have other creatures and if they are hurting themselves to burn me. Ruric Thar can be an option to natural order for depending on the life totals and board state.

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Originally Posted by Arianeira

@Zombie
Not to keen on 61 cards in a combo deck. How does 19 lands work out for you? How is Wren's Run Packmaster. I haven't tried it out yet myself but am skeptical with it costing 4 makes it hard to Zenith for and the champion requires a creature so its not very good if your board just got wiped. I prefer Needle to Null Rod since if you go first you can cast it turn 1 before Miracles gets to play a land to Spell Pierce and it also stops Jace.

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The 61 cards have worked well thus far, as have 19 lands. To be clear, I only run 19 because I don't run the splash - if I'm splashing a third colour you can bet I'm going up to 20. I just felt I was drawing a few too many lands and wanted space in the maindeck to make room in the sideboard, so that's where I ended up at.

Packmaster is a house. She just takes over any remotely fair gamestate in short order even in the face of opposing removal. If the opponent feels forced to pull the trigger on a sweeper, so much the better, I still get value from the DRS/Visionary I stashed away with the Packmaster. It's really sweet how she gives me a really high-threat option with a midsize GSZ.

If your environment is mostly stuff like combo, I'd rather run Edric or something in that slot, if anything at all. It's a card to win fair games given fair decks have gotten more and nastier tools to deal with us.

NO=>Packmaster always feels really, really iffy because it eats two creatures. Not recommended.

The Null Rods are Null Rods because Needle doesn't do work vs. Storm. They're chosen specifically to crack a meta of Miracles/Delver/Storm. If the field was more about things like Sneak & Show I'd be running Needles.

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Originally Posted by Zombie

The 61 cards have worked well thus far, as have 19 lands. To be clear, I only run 19 because I don't run the splash - if I'm splashing a third colour you can bet I'm going up to 20. I just felt I was drawing a few too many lands and wanted space in the maindeck to make room in the sideboard, so that's where I ended up at.

Packmaster is a house. She just takes over any remotely fair gamestate in short order even in the face of opposing removal. If the opponent feels forced to pull the trigger on a sweeper, so much the better, I still get value from the DRS/Visionary I stashed away with the Packmaster. It's really sweet how she gives me a really high-threat option with a midsize GSZ.

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I think the majority have run the 18 land package (which is what I am at) and some are even taking a more aggressive/risky approach with 17 land. To be honest I fel 18 is just right, I'd feel overwhelmed with land with anymore.

Anyway I've also made the switch to Packmaster given the high praise it has received. Haven't been able to adequately test it yet but that time will come.

I've been back and forth on 60 and 61 cards. I know the math behind it and all the details, its really just what is most efficient. Right now I'm at 60 cards, running Packmaster and Reclamation Mage in the main, Ooze in the board. A 61st card would be a choice between Ooze main deck again or perhaps another simple mana dork.

Before adding Packmaster I was actually running 4 NO maindeck, as I felt that in the majority of my MUs I was boarding it in regardless. Now with Packmaster that 4th NO seems a bit much on the 4cc side of things, so that could also come out in favor of one of the other flexible cards.

Looks like Gabe got colors ;D

That's such a sweet piece.

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Originally Posted by Zombie

You evil bastard :D

I'm running Future Sight Arbors and Zendikar Full Art basics.

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+1. All of mine are foil, and I think the Future Sight foil Dryads are head-and-shoulders better-looking cards than FTV.

Hi all! I just found this site, and figured this thread was a good place to introduce myself. I just made my first legacy deck and its combo elves! It is the most me legacy deck I know (oh gaea's cradle and fungal bloom, how I miss comboing you awkwardly....good times).

My decklist is limited by cost (only three cradles, only three fetchlands, only three natural orders, and only one bayou), but it seems to do well with my limited testing so far. I play the deck decently, with ~1 legit mistake per game (often non-fatal), and trying to improve that number.

I hope to attend GP New Jersey (for which I will beg to borrow the full gambit of fetchlands...deathrite shaman just isn't reliable without them). This primer is great, but as someone trying to learn the format in a hurry (well, in a couple months so a medium hurry), any specific advice?

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Originally Posted by jamie7keller

I play the deck decently, with ~1 legit mistake per game (often non-fatal), and trying to improve that number.

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I read that one with the voice of a doctor telling us about his latest surgeries.

The best thing to do is to just play, play and play some more. You can most of the time figure out the correct course of action over time but I would estimate that for every mistake you actually realize, you might make twice the amount of them that you don't realize; the most critical yet hardest to spot ones for yourself when you are starting out are the strategical ones. Play all the matches, see which ones you want to NO in, which ones you really want to have lethal Glimpse and which ones a value-Glimpse is all you will need in.

I assume you can't play on MODO given that your paper version is still mising the CRITICAL 4th Cradle (I would play 5 if I could), so I won't talk about that. Just keep in mind that it's the best ressource (unfortunately also the only real one) you have available to get in your 30-50 matches/week. Because that's the stuff that helps you improve the most and (most importantly) learn the dynmaics of all the different matchups: PLAY, PLAY, PLAY.

Here is my list, with the sideboard being a WIP:

1 Reclamation Sage
3 Birchlore Rangers
2 Craterhoof Behemoth
2 Deathrite Shaman
4 Elvish Visionary
3 Heritage Druid
1 Multani's Acolyte
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Quirion Ranger
1 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
4 Wirewood Symbiote
2 Crop Rotation
1 Bayou
2 Dryad Arbor
5 Forest
3 Gaea's Cradle
1 Marsh Flats
1 Misty Rainforest
4 Overgrown Tomb
1 Polluted Delta
4 Glimpse of Nature
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Natural Order

SB:3 Abrupt Decay
3 Cabal Therapy
2 Mindbreak Trap
2 Pithing Needle
1 Progenitus
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Thoughtseize


I have played a lot on untap...not sure if that is used by folks on here or frowned upon. I wish I could port my real cards into MTGO, but I'm not going to start a collection from scratch there (plus I have very limited internet).

The worst things in my list are only three cradles (crop rotation helps with this, and for each time they counter it, i am getting a bonus by doing it in response to a wasteland...and I know some folks used to run 3 gaea's and some crop rotations...doesn't seem ideal to me, but has the community sworn off that plan wholesale?) and lack of fetchlands (which makes deathrite SO unreliable that I've cut him back to 2...this may be a mistake but he often sits there, not making mana, if my opponent isn't cracking lands). Extra bayous would be nice of course, but shockland does a fair imitation.

I have noticed that. I don't play online, so sometimes I just pull out random decks on a Tuesday afternoon to give people something different to play against. I played against the Jund guy a while back and was so out of practice that he was giving me tips on how to play the deck. My ego took a hit.

Elves I think is different from a deck like Jund, Delver or Burn. It's not a "plug and play" deck. It's in many ways as complex as storm and if you take a break from it, your skills with the deck will suffer for it.

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Originally Posted by Dice_Box

I have noticed that. I don't play online, so sometimes I just pull out random decks on a Tuesday afternoon to give people something different to play against. I played against the Jund guy a while back and was so out of practice that he was giving me tips on how to play the deck. My ego took a hit.

Elves I think is different from a deck like Jund, Delver or Burn. It's not a "plug and play" deck. It's in many ways as complex as storm and if you take a break from it, your skills with the deck will suffer for it.

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Even being new, I can attest to this. Luckily, it is exactly my type of mental puzzle; give me combo over scry/top any day.

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Originally Posted by Arianeira

(...)

@AndreBonotto

Burn is a race can they burn you out before you hoof them? I dislike chump blocking because they can burn your elves in response to hoof so you need every single one. Only chump block if its lethal. Pyrokinesis is really bad news.

Casting elves with Eidolon out depends on the board and what I have in my hand and life totals if I can get lethal next turn without hurting my life so that he can burn me out I will commit. Sometimes I will just sit and wait and let them burn me a few times hurting themselves. Depends if they have other creatures and if they are hurting themselves to burn me. Ruric Thar can be an option to natural order for depending on the life totals and board state.

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Yeah, that's a reasonable thought, but my problem is that, sometimes when preparing for a possible chump-block, I cannot tell if their attack it's going to be lethal or not - i.e., whether they have or not in hand the final burn to finish me.

In these cases, I tend to assume they have the "maximum burn output" possible in hand, and chumpblock accordingly, in order to not "get caught in short pants".

Regarding Pyrokinesis, I don't think my Burn opponents here tend to play it. They generally play Searing Blazes and Searing Bloods - and I have also faced someone packing Volcanic Fallouts, but this last one is uncommon...

Regarding our behavior when Eidolon is out, I found that it is rough to beat, if resolved on turn 2, when we're on the draw.
This situation cancels our Glimpse plan (be it "full combo" or "glimpse for value") - that is one of our ways of beating their speed
And this also difficults our NO plan, because for it to be lethal, we need to commit another three creatures to the board (= we need to take 6 "free damage" from the Eidolon).

In face of this thought, I wonder if it is worth to side out some number of Glimpse of Nature in this MU (I guess probably not, but still, this thought have come to my mind...)

I agree on the value of Ruric Thar here. He had won me my match against Burn this weekend, and in fact, I think that most of my wins against Burn had a "Ruric's hand" on them - the hand with the Axe :laugh: ...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zombie

I'm running Future Sight Arbors and Zendikar Full Art basics.

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I also run the same configuration, but both are of the Japanese variety, and the basics are foil.

@Zombie
19 land might be fine. I been on 20 for awhile though.

Will have to try Packmaster just picked one up online.

I was thinking more Zenith for Packmaster but you need to Champion an elf and that costs 5 to cast. Scavenging Ooze is much easier to Zenith for. Natural Order is reserved for Craterhoof or Ruric Thar but I have Natural Ordered for Viridian Shaman to get rid of Umezawa;s Jitte before.

I prefer Needle because it can come down turn 1 versus Miracles and it can disable Liliana and Jace as well as creature abilities.

I can see running Null Rods if your not running the blue splash for Swan Songs. You need something more then discard against Brainstorm, Ponder and top decks.

@yaWgnorW
Do you play against Delver often? Feel more land is good versus Delver. 17 seems really low in the face of Wasteland, Stifle, Daze, Spell Pierce.

I been running Ooze main deck. Its a good back up plan to Zenith for if your board gets wiped.

@Julian23
Have to agree with you need to practice. I was taking a vacation from Elves trying Miracles and playing Vintage a bit and got a little rusty.

@Jamie7keller
Get the 4th cradle next then the second Bayou. Fetch lands will be reprinted eventually in order to promote Modern. You might want to try a Priest of Titania. If your opponents are not playing fetches to feed your Deathrite maybe try some number of Llanowar Elves?

@Andrebonotto
Well you have to look at your next turn options and count their cards and mana and guess what they could possibly cast to kill you before thinking about blocking.

I still have Pyrokinesis in my board of my burn deck that I just have to loan if a friend needs a deck. Pyrokinesis is just so good against Elves and Death and Taxes with all the 1 toughness creatures.

Well if they have Eidolon out you want to Natural Order Ruric unless you have enough elves out for lethal or are like 1 away. Yes they can double burn him but they are taking 16 to kill him unless one of the burn spells is Fireblast. Just have to watch out for them blocking with Eidolon and Fireblasting Ruric.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arianeira

@Zombie
@Jamie7keller
Get the 4th cradle next then the second Bayou. Fetch lands will be reprinted eventually in order to promote Modern. You might want to try a Priest of Titania. If your opponents are not playing fetches to feed your Deathrite maybe try some number of Llanowar Elves?

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Thanks for the ideas. I will get another Cradle if/when I can, but with a new baby, magic budget is tight. I am holding out on getting fetchlands, as you said, assuming they will be reprinted this year or next year, but they are so good for this deck I may try to borrow some, and I am going to hold off on trading the three I have (I did trade away an arid mesa, since that wasn't helping this deck any).

It seems like PoT belongs in an aggro elves list with wren packmaster, etc., but it seems akward in a combo deck. it comes down turn 2 at the earliest, doesn't function the turn it is played, is 2 mana rather than the one mana I like my elf dorks to be....Am I off base, or are both methosds viable in combo elves?

I hope to go to some smaller legacy events to try my stuff live (it's just different online) and see how my deck stacks up, but how willing should I be to go to a Grand Prix with a non-ideal decklist, like the one i listed above? I realize that even with the best deck I am an underdog to make it to day two at my first GP, and a deck running shocklands instead of duels is not doing me any favors. But if I keep waiting and second guessing myself thats bad too; we go to war with the decks we have, not the decks we wish we had.

You should go just for the experience. GPs are always lots of fun. There are a million things to do and a million nerds around to do them with. It's just a cool experience, win or lose.

Also, you should be trying to get as many reps under your belt as possible. The physical mechanics of this deck make the live play experience much different from playing online. You want to be able to manipulate all the small interactions efficiently. And under pressure. The best way to learn that stuff is in a live event.

So go. For fun and practice. Don't worry about winning. I find that when I worry about that too much, I end up losing anyway. Just go and have fun and focus on playing as well as you can. Because you can lose when you're playing well and win when you're playing shitty. Just try to always play to the best of your ability. The rest will follow if luck is on your side.