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Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Adan
There is absolutely no reason to be afraid of Aluren. I have not played the matchup extensively, but these one or two times, I won. But more so because Aluren itself is pretty hard to resolve against DnT in general, so if you can out a lot of strain on their mana, you're good. And other than that there are probably tons of interaction possible with Revoker, Recruiter, Banisher Priest (possibly Leonin Relic Warder which I'd not recomment) and other shenanigans that I peobably can't really grasp right now.
I've grinded out games vs a friend who picked it up some months back, and began to pick up on the patterns of why this isn't a great matchup. He's agreed and I don't think he's lost a tournament match to DnT so far.
Aluren:
Has plenty of basics +DRS, so it's harder to manascrew them
Is majority creature, so while Thalia doesn't do nothing, she's less effective than average
Has Decays for early Vials/Equipment
Plays value roadblocks like Baleful Strix and Leovold
Grinds well while threatening to draw into infinite combo at the same time
There's no way that's a great matchup. It's not unwinnable, sometimes you'll just get a Jitte on a Crusader, but it's not the type of deck you ever hope to see. Almost every opening 7 with their deck is going to have 2 cards that fit the description 'Strong vs DnT'.
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Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
iatee
I've grinded out games vs a friend who picked it up some months back, and began to pick up on the patterns of why this isn't a great matchup. He's agreed and I don't think he's lost a tournament match to DnT so far.
Aluren:
Has plenty of basics +DRS, so it's harder to manascrew them
Is majority creature, so while Thalia doesn't do nothing, she's less effective than average
Has Decays for early Vials/Equipment
Plays value roadblocks like Baleful Strix and Leovold
Grinds well while threatening to draw into infinite combo at the same time
There's no way that's a great matchup. It's not unwinnable, sometimes you'll just get a Jitte on a Crusader, but it's not the type of deck you ever hope to see. Almost every opening 7 with their deck is going to have 2 cards that fit the description 'Strong vs DnT'.
I don't disagree that is may or may not be a bad matchup but if we're honest, Aluren is a weaker shardless BUG deck with a combo finish. So if you think all these cards are so dangerous or such an issue, do you identify shardless as a bad matchup? I see it as 50/50 so if we factor in the combo I wouldn't say Aluren is crushingly better against us. But to be fair I've only faced the deck two to three times. I won all 3 but that's a small sample size.
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Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
@nihilis
I think I'll probably play it safe and run a Banisher Priest over it for the GP.
Regarding Aluren:
I generically view most creature-based combo decks (Elves, Aluren, Food Chain) as bad matchups. While we tend to have game against the fair portion, a resolved combo card (Natural Order, Food Chain, Aluren) probably means we lose on the spot.
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Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Medea_
@nihilis
Regarding Aluren:
I generically view most creature-based combo decks (Elves, Aluren, Food Chain) as bad matchups. While we tend to have game against the fair portion, a resolved combo card (Natural Order, Food Chain, Aluren) probably means we lose on the spot.
I agree with this sentiment; I actually feel like Aluren is a pretty poor MU.
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Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
I think I'm going to end up on something like this:
Lands
10 Plains
2 Cavern of Souls
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
3 Karakas
Creatures
4 Mother of Runes
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Recruiter of the Guard
1 Sanctum Prelate
1 Serra Avenger
3 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Flickerwisp
1 Banisher Priest
2 Mirran Crusader
Spells
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 AEther Vial
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
Sideboard
2 Path to Exile
1 Containment Priest
2 Surgical Extractions
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Council's Judgment
2 Rest in Peace
1 Pithing Needle
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1 Sword of War and Peace
This is about what I'm looking at. Obviously, there is a ton of room for debate on some of the numbers and choices, and I might even change my mind tonight.
Things I'm considering:
Banisher Priest vs Mangara (speed vs flexibility in a GP field)
4th Mom vs Sanctum Prelate 2 or Serra Avenger 2
One gravehate card vs Containment Priest 2
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Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
Seems solid, Medea. Are you going back up to 3 Karakas for RB Reanimator? Also, curious about the reason for running more Crusaders than Avengers? I think you were on 1 and 2 before.
EDIT: Whoops you mentioned maybe switching out mom for something else. Curious what led you to go up to 4 to begin with though. I thought you'd been on 3 in recent weeks?
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Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
@kerbydsl
I did go up to three Karakas specifically because of RB Reanimator. I like playing two better, but I have to respect the recent popularity of that deck and the hype surrounding Sneak and Show.
I sort of have this feeling that BUG decks will perform well. Leovold has been seeing more and more play, so that cause me to flip flop the numbers on Crusader/Avenger.
I was on 3 Moms. I still sort of want to be on three Moms. Conversations with friends have left me on the fence on this issue.
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Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
With BUG decks, and specifically Aluren, what's the best way to fight them? Leovold makes all removal and our mana denial feel bad (hello, Council's Judgment!), and I don't know the best way to respond to the Aluren combo. Most of the Recruiter-less builds are running 2 Parasitic Strix and 3-4 Cavern Harpy, which makes removing what used to be the sole copies of each less reliable.
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Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
RobNC
With BUG decks, and specifically Aluren, what's the best way to fight them? Leovold makes all removal and our mana denial feel bad (hello, Council's Judgment!), and I don't know the best way to respond to the Aluren combo. Most of the Recruiter-less builds are running 2
Parasitic Strix and 3-4
Cavern Harpy, which makes removing what used to be the sole copies of each less reliable.
If I understand correctly, they still can't combo through an Ethersworn Canonist, right? So Canonist + Mom aught to be good.
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Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Medea_
I think I'm going to end up on something like this:
Lands
10 Plains
2 Cavern of Souls
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
3 Karakas
Creatures
4 Mother of Runes
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Recruiter of the Guard
1 Sanctum Prelate
1 Serra Avenger
3 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Flickerwisp
1 Banisher Priest
2 Mirran Crusader
Spells
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 AEther Vial
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
Sideboard
2 Path to Exile
1 Containment Priest
2 Surgical Extractions
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Council's Judgment
2 Rest in Peace
1 Pithing Needle
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1 Sword of War and Peace
This is about what I'm looking at. Obviously, there is a ton of room for debate on some of the numbers and choices, and I might even change my mind tonight.
Things I'm considering:
Banisher Priest vs Mangara (speed vs flexibility in a GP field)
4th Mom vs Sanctum Prelate 2 or Serra Avenger 2
One gravehate card vs Containment Priest 2
I'm at:
-1 Mother of Runes
-1 Banisher Priest
+1 Serra Avenger
+1 Palace Jailer
-1 Sword of War and Peace
-2 Surgical Extraction
+1 Containment Priest
+2 Faerie Macabre
I don't think I want to go below 2 Avengers, esp since I don't know what leaving one accomplishes. Like the flying and the insulation to -1/1 effects. Wish I could fit one more Recruiter. Palace Jailer has me uneasy but my gut says to give it a go.
Surgical vs Faerie is my current head scratcher. Both have their obvious ups and down. Hate trying to hedge on those kinds of numbers... lol
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Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
H
If I understand correctly, they still can't combo through an
Ethersworn Canonist, right? So Canonist + Mom aught to be good.
That's correct, they can't combo out because Harpy is not an artifact.
The only version I've played against was the white Recruiter version and I had tried Canonist as well as Revoker naming Harpy, but they also run 3-4 Abrupt Decay and discard (the BUG version seems to favor Ponder instead of discard).
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Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
Well Mom is a 3 or 4 of for a reason...I've found that Canonist or Revoker + Mom shuts the game out short of something like a TOxic Deluge
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Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
@Nihils
I'm playing Surgical. I fought over the decision all week. Ultimately, I decided that if they have the T1 with Chancellor, they can have it. I want a sideboard card that is generically strong, and Surgical is that. I think there aren't a ton of situations where I'm really going to want to tutor for the gravehate (I've probably already locked it up if I'm at turn three safely). There are the fringe scenarios where Faerie is better (e.g. Faithless ->discard two fatties -> exhume), and I accept that.
The last few slots of the main are difficult. It really doesn't matter that much, but it sure feels like it does.
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Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Medea_
@Nihils
I'm playing Surgical. I fought over the decision all week. Ultimately, I decided that if they have the T1 with Chancellor, they can have it. I want a sideboard card that is generically strong, and Surgical is that. I think there aren't a ton of situations where I'm really going to want to tutor for the gravehate (I've probably already locked it up if I'm at turn three safely). There are the fringe scenarios where Faerie is better (e.g. Faithless ->discard two fatties -> exhume), and I accept that.
I have also been fighting over the choice. I agree that Surgical's strength is that it is generically strong, i.e. can be boarded in more matchups. Where else do you see yourself boarding it in? Lands? Miracles? When they miracle trigger the second terminus, extract the first from the grave - deny the draw, counter the spell. Or just STP.
Not that I have a lot of extra cards to board out against miracles. Here's my tentative plan:
-1 Jitte, -2 swords to plowshares (fewer or none if they are Lossett Legends? Maybe also keep 3 in against turbo mentor versions?), -1 (of 1) Serra Avenger, -2 or 3 Mother of Runes? Can't cut a land when you're bringing in gideon, cata, and you can't really mull in the matchup.
+ 1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar, +2 Cataclysm, +1 Pithing Needle, +2 Council's Judgment, +1 Surgical Extraction
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Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
Ok, I just had a crazy thought, so can I confirm that Council's Judgment in the maindeck Banisher/Jailer/Mangara slot is sub-optimal? There are more and more Leovolds and TNNs running around. Mangara largely overlaps the target selection in a repeatable, uncounterable, and tutorable fashion, but at the cost of a turn. Judgment would be a compromise between the flexibility of Mangara and the quick(ish) effect of the Journey to Nowhere creatures. If you agree it's not the right call now, how skewed would a meta have to get to make maindeck Judgment viable?
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Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Medea_
I've probably already locked it up if I'm at turn three safely.
Wouldn't that make Faerie the better card then?
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Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Medea_
I think I'm going to end up on something like this:
Lands
10 Plains
2 Cavern of Souls
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
3 Karakas
Creatures
4 Mother of Runes
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Recruiter of the Guard
1 Sanctum Prelate
1 Serra Avenger
3 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Flickerwisp
1 Banisher Priest
2 Mirran Crusader
Spells
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 AEther Vial
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
Sideboard
2 Path to Exile
1 Containment Priest
2 Surgical Extractions
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Council's Judgment
2 Rest in Peace
1 Pithing Needle
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1 Sword of War and Peace
This is about what I'm looking at. Obviously, there is a ton of room for debate on some of the numbers and choices, and I might even change my mind tonight.
Things I'm considering:
Banisher Priest vs Mangara (speed vs flexibility in a GP field)
4th Mom vs Sanctum Prelate 2 or Serra Avenger 2
One gravehate card vs Containment Priest 2
This is literally my list right now except I play 1 more avenger, no banisher priest, and sideboard swap the SoWaP for a 2nd prelate. Otherwise exactly the same
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Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
iatee
Sanctum Prelate turned Lands into a matchup I'd take over basically every other t1 deck.
Same but if we take make the MU a lock with freeroll includes in our deck I would definitely work towards trying to make Lands into a free win.
Who knows at the GP level, but at the local level players are already adapting to Prelate. It doesn't hurt to be one step ahead of their Crop Rotation for Barbarian nonsense.
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Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Nihils
Surgical vs Faerie is my current head scratcher. Both have their obvious ups and down. Hate trying to hedge on those kinds of numbers... lol
It seems like there's an obvious solution here - 1 Surgical, 1 Faerie. Having >0 Macabres is useful as they're a great Recruiter target, but Surgical is a generally stronger card.
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Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
If I was playing Louisville this weekend, I'd run this:
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Horizon Canopy
3 Karakas
10 Plains
4 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
26 CREATURES
1 Palace Jailer
4 Flickerwisp
2 Mirran Crusader
4 Mother of Runes
3 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Recruiter of the Guard
1 Sanctum Prelate
1 Serra Avenger
1 Spirit of the Labyrinth
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Aether Vial
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
SIDEBOARD
2 Containment Priest
2 Council's Judgment
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Faerie Macabre
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Path to Exile
1 Pithing Needle
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Rest in Peace
Good luck to anyone who is playing!
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Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
I'll be playing this at Louisville as well. I wanted to add more flex cards to my sideboard, but having trouble deciding what to cut. The lack of experience I have makes it hard for me to completely understand the purpose of some cards. Assume I'm playing the list in the previous post:
Where are people bringing in Path to Exile? What's the reasoning behind "Man, I'm really glad I have these two paths in my sideboard right now." I feel like these are some of the least important cards and able to be excluded for more utility. Is this a terrible decision? Path's are a redundant inclusion, but I could be using those slots for two more 1-ofs to offer options throughout a GP.
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Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
Thomas,
As the resident D&T Legacy GP master of the group I definitely am tempted to copy your list :D...
Couple of questions:
- Why only 1 recruiter? Seems like most people really love the "card draw" aspect of this card in a deck that struggles for card advantage.
- Continuing to advocate for Spirit. Why are you still up on this card? It's application is obvious but I worry that another x/1 isn't what the deck needs (and on the ground none of the less).
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Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
Spirit will be good for this particular GP, as BRx Reanimator is supposed to be represented full-force. I still play 1x, and it serves its purpose.
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Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
My main appeal to SoTL is that it's another 2 drop that does something disruptive right away (contrast with SFM). Being able to apply SOME disruptive element on turn 2 is a big deal for our deck.
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Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
So I think I'm leaning towards this:
9 Plains
3 Karakas
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
2 Cavern of Souls
1 Horizon Canopy
4 Aether Vial
4 STP
1 Jitte
1 SOFI
1 Bskull
4 Mother of Runes
4 Thalia, GoT
3 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Spirit of the Labyrinth
2 Mirran Crusader
2 Recruiter of the Guard
2 Sanctum Prelate
4 Flickerwisp
1 Palace Jailer
Sideboard:
2 Cpriests
2 Cjudgement
2 Canonist
2 Path to Exile
2 Gideon
2 RIP
1 Fmacabre
1 Cataclsym
1 Pithing Needle
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Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
Figured it would be a good exercise if we go through the common matchups and sideboarding. I'll be playing the following list at GP Louisville and just want thoughts on sideboarding. I've made a list of the common matchups. Would appreciate feedback. What do you take out and what do you bring in? If your sideboard tech isn't in my list, then let me know what your all-star is in the matchup.
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Horizon Canopy
3 Karakas
10 Plains
4 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
4 Flickerwisp
1 Mirran Crusader
4 Mother of Runes
3 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Recruiter of the Guard
2 Sanctum Prelate
2 Serra Avenger
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Aether Vial
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
SIDEBOARD
2 Council's Judgment
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Faerie Macabre
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Path to Exile
2 Pithing Needle
2 Rest in Peace
1 Banisher Priest
1 Sword of War & Peace
Matchups
- Miracles
- Lands
- BUG Shardless/Midrange
- Eldrazi (I really struggle with this matchup. They always seem to have chalice on 1.)
- Aggro Loam
- Storm
- Elves
- Jund
- Delver
- Show and Tell
- Infect
- Reanimator
- Burn
- Stoneblade
- Aluren
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Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
Eldrazi:
+
1 banisher priest
2 PtE
2 CJ
-
2 MoR
2 Prelate
1 Thalia or 3rd MoR
This is how I board, and how many MoR I leave in is based on whether or not I believe they play Dismember. That's just what I do, though. I haven't a clue as to what is most accepted. The matchup certainly can feel weighted at the coinflip.
Edit: This is for colorless, I don't think banisher priest is as good if they play displacers, however you do have Revoker to tie it down if you can find it.
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Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
My list is just off from TE's. Feels very solid and I recommend anything within a few cards of it. I've got Priest over Jailer and second Recruiter over SotL.
I'm wearing a pretty distinctive green cloak, so if you see me, feel free to pop by and say hi.
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Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
Day 2 at 6-3 Lots of taxes in the room.
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Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
Good job, what's feeling good? Any choices you regret making/not making? Is there a lot of BRx Reanimator?
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Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ThomasEnevoldsen
If I was playing Louisville this weekend, I'd run this:
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Horizon Canopy
3 Karakas
10 Plains
4 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
26 CREATURES
1 Palace Jailer
4 Flickerwisp
2 Mirran Crusader
4 Mother of Runes
3 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Recruiter of the Guard
1 Sanctum Prelate
1 Serra Avenger
1 Spirit of the Labyrinth
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Aether Vial
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
SIDEBOARD
2 Containment Priest
2 Council's Judgment
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Faerie Macabre
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Path to Exile
1 Pithing Needle
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Rest in Peace
Good luck to anyone who is playing!
Looks great, thanks. Could you provide a general sideboard guide against the top decks: Miracles, BUG Shardless, Eldrazi and Grixis Delver?
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Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
I got 48th. Didn't lose day 2 at all. Will do a write up later.
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Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Medea_
I got 48th. Didn't lose day 2 at all. Will do a write up later.
Congrats!
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Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
Craig Wescoe thanked Thomas Enevoldson for his list that he made Top 8 with; I didn't check card for card but it looks pretty close to what Thomas posted on the previous page.
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Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Medea_
I'm not really convinced Renegade Rallier does anything that the deck really needs. I just don't think the power level of this card is high enough to want to work with the conditions. If I'm playing green splash D&T, I'd rather have things like Teeg in my flex slots. If I'm playing Maverick, this is approximate in power level to Eternal Witness, and is probably not a reason to pick up the deck. I think the ideal situations are great, but the average situation might be pretty underwhelming.
I think you are highly underestimating this card. The more I think about it the better it gets. Now I have played the GW version with Noble Hierarch and THC before and that deck is quite good but I think this card would probably better fit a more tool box version of the GW deck with 3 recruiters and targets such as Gaddock Teeg, Qasali Pridemage and all the white targets we currently have. Anyways the way I thought about this card was that I imagined it with say, wasteland and thought, would a 3/2 Fulminator Mage that had to EtB instead of sac itself be good? Yes. Or say Serra Avenger, imagine if you had a card that was like serra avenger, but it costed 3 and also generated a 3/2 token, would that be good? Yes. Or say what if it there was ThaliaGoT but costed 1 more, had +1/+1 but without first strike? That sounds a lot like what you'd get if you brought back TGoT from the grave with this. This getting Umezawas would be like playing a Stoneforge Mystic with haste and activating it on that turn, except it would cost 1 less and be a 3/2. Other good targets that this can get would be stuff like QasaliPM, Gaddock Teeg, SFM(this would be like having a 3mana equipment tutor on a 3/2 but better), Mother of Runes, and more. Anyways I have presented a few decent analogies that might help you reach the point where I am in my evaluation of this card. Some other things this has going for it are that it's a human(good with cavern), it has great synergy with Flickerwisp, and the revolt would be quite easy to trigger in this deck with fetchlands, Horizon Canopy, Wasteland Karakas, QasaliPM, and others. if anything this should at least get a mention in the green splash section of your website(not saying you wouldnt add it if it werent for this comment but whatever).
Edit: sorry this needs a sac outlet to go inf with Saffi Eriksdotter so that part was taken out, I added the fact that it has good synergy with Flickerwisp and wasteland was added to the list of things that could trigger revolt
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Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
Went 11-4 and ended up 63 overall at the GP. One thing I noticed is that True-Name is making a huge comeback. I normally find Delver pretty easy, but I lost to two draws that curved TNN into a Jitte. The same thing happened when I faced off against Reid Duke's list and got run over by Jitte.
If True-Name starts getting more popular, should we start adding more cards to deal with it? Am I overreacting to two losses?Councils Judgement was never enough for me to deal with it.
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Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mantis
Looks great, thanks. Could you provide a general sideboard guide against the top decks: Miracles, BUG Shardless, Eldrazi and Grixis Delver?
I'm interested in this question too, expecially on SB plan against BUG variants. I'm running basically his exact 75, -1 SoTL +1 Recruiter, and i really struggle with my SB plan against BUG, mostly the Cascade version. I know i want to board in the 2 Gideon and possibly the 1 Rest in Peace, since everytime i managed to stick it against Deathrite/Goyf decks i always have a huge advantage, but i don't know what to cut: everything seems good in MD. What do you guys think?
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Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
RobNC
Craig Wescoe thanked Thomas Enevoldson for his list that he made Top 8 with; I didn't check card for card but it looks pretty close to what Thomas posted on the previous page.
It runs a second Recruiter over the second Mirran Crusader. I think this is defensible, especially considering the vast amount of Miracles and Sneak and Show in the Top 64.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
WashableWater1
Went 11-4 and ended up 63 overall at the GP. One thing I noticed is that True-Name is making a huge comeback. I normally find Delver pretty easy, but I lost to two draws that curved TNN into a Jitte. The same thing happened when I faced off against Reid Duke's list and got run over by Jitte.
If True-Name starts getting more popular, should we start adding more cards to deal with it? Am I overreacting to two losses?Councils Judgement was never enough for me to deal with it.
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It could be reasonable to play 2 Scrubland, go up to 2 Cavern of Souls and play a couple of fetchlands in order to fit in a singleton Orzhov Pontiff. Can be played through Vial and fetched with Recruiter. The cost of splashing seems fairly low and it is great against Elves, the mirror, Pyromancer and Infect. Could even be an acceptable way to slow down Monastery Mentor.
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Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
iatee
I've grinded out games vs a friend who picked it up some months back, and began to pick up on the patterns of why this isn't a great matchup. He's agreed and I don't think he's lost a tournament match to DnT so far.
Aluren:
Has plenty of basics +DRS, so it's harder to manascrew them
Is majority creature, so while Thalia doesn't do nothing, she's less effective than average
Has Decays for early Vials/Equipment
Plays value roadblocks like Baleful Strix and Leovold
Grinds well while threatening to draw into infinite combo at the same time
There's no way that's a great matchup. It's not unwinnable, sometimes you'll just get a Jitte on a Crusader, but it's not the type of deck you ever hope to see. Almost every opening 7 with their deck is going to have 2 cards that fit the description 'Strong vs DnT'.
Alright, if you say that I'll believe you. As I said, I only played it once and the only thing I got blown out by in one game was this Exploit guy that -1/-1s your whole board. But it might have been an out-dated list, I remember it was a 4colored one that played Imperial Recruiters and was easy to screw. Yesterday we had a fairly big event in Frankfurt (200ppl) and I've seen a few people playing BUG Aluren, and I must admit that deck is no joke. Especially this Glint-Nest Hawk can dig into Baleful Strix, Shardless Agents and this Strix that drains 2 life. Leovold is also an insane card per se and overall the deck is just full of insane value cards. And I am still trying to figure out how you can interact with Revokers when the opponent slams Aluren and tries to combo off. Perhaps Leonin Relic-Warder and/or War Priest of Thune can be fringe tools here (I'm not sure!)?
Either way I played DnT yesterday as well to a 5-2-1 finish, and fairly similar to Thomas' list that Craig Wescoe top8ed the GP with:
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Horizon Canopy
3 Karakas
10 Plains
4 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
1 Palace Jailer
4 Flickerwisp
1 Mirran Crusader
4 Mother of Runes
3 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Recruiter of the Guard
1 Sanctum Prelate
2 Serra Avenger
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Aether Vial
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
SB
2 Containment Priest
2 Council's Judgment
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Faerie Macabre
1 Sanctum Prelate
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Path to Exile
1 Pithing Needle
2 Rest in Peace
So in summary I had 2 Serra Avengers and no Spirit and in the SB a 2nd Prelate instead of a 2nd Faerie Macabre, 2 Rest in Peace instead of the 1/1 split with Relic.
My matchups were:
Burn 2-1
Grixis Delver 2-1
Death & Taxes 2-0
Grixis Delver 2-1
Elves 0-2
OmniSneak 0-2
Aggroloam 1-1-1
Grixis Delver 2-0
This is actually a quite acceptable resumee. Elves are still a nightmare, I was always dead on Turn 3 before I could connect with Jitte and my openers lacked Swords to Plowshares but were too good to ship. The Show and Tell guy went 3rd Turn SnT --> Omni --> Cunning Wish/Emrakul on me in g1/g2 respectively and there was not much I could do. He simply had perfect opening hands in both games, it was insane. And I could have won the match against Aggroloam, but game 1 slipped out of my hands very slowly and at one point I could not attack with a Batterskull'd creature anymore past 2 KotRs and Karakas and Maze. I just didn't notice that g1 took 30 minutes, I should have scooped early.
And on a sidenote, Palace Jailer looked like a terrible card on paper, but in reality it's just sick. The monarch ability alone won me 4 games single-handedly. And I definitely want to play more games with him, because he also turns Flickerwisps into hard removal. Overall I do think that the 4th mana is absolutely worth it as it is so much less fragile than Banisher Priest and at the same time is a tutorable single-card-engine. If you are good at combat math you won't lose the monarch status, the only cards where it could potentially backfire are Baleful Strix, True-Name Nemesis and Reality Smashers as well as surprise Snapcasters and token swarms of Young Pyromancer or Mentor. But as I said, I still have to play more, but on this particular event it really shined whenever I had it.
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Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes
I played the following list this weekend to an unfortunate 5-3-1 finish Day 1.
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Horizon Canopy
3 Karakas
10 Plains
4 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
4 Flickerwisp
1 Mirran Crusader
4 Mother of Runes
3 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Recruiter of the Guard
2 Sanctum Prelate
2 Serra Avenger
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Aether Vial
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
SIDEBOARD
2 Council's Judgment
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Faerie Macabre
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1 Cataclysm
2 Path to Exile
1 Pithing Needle
2 Rest in Peace
1 Banisher Priest
1 Sword of War & Peace
My matchups by round were:
- Eldrazi (1-2)
- Shardless (2-0)
- Eldrazi (2-0)
- Infect (1-2)
- Shardless (1-1-1)
- Miracles (2-1)
- RUG Delver (2-1)
- Lands (1-2)
- Miracles (2-0)
My day started with a T1 chalice on 1 followed by three TKS in a row. Game 2 against eldrazi i was able to wassteland him off creatures and game 3 was similar to game 1. My opponent had never played legacy before, stating that he was borrowing the deck from a friend. He asked if I was playing "mono-white goblins". You heard that correct. Lol. Frustrating round 1 loss. My 1 draw with shardless was mostly due to my opponents slow play and the fact that he wastelanded me into oblivion games 1 & 2 which only slowed the game to a screeching halt until I was able to finish him with a Gideon. Im considering going up to 24 lands after this weekend. I had issues against opposing wasteland decks. I would have won game 3 but we went to turns and i was one turn short of winning (crusader + jitte) and he wanted the draw. The highlight of this match was I that I was able to 'get' my opponent with a council's judgement, which Medea_ got to witness because he was playing next to me. My opponent was an experienced player (even had beta duals), but he was confused by the card and eventually voted for something else, which caused him to lose both his permanents. I think in the past whenever the card had been played against him he always just exiled whatever the opposing D&T player named. Make sure to ask your opponent to vote for a permanent after letting them read the card, some people still don't actually know how it works. My loss to infect was just one of those games where you do everything right but its just not enough. He viridian corrupted my canonist game 3 and followed it with an inkmoth nexus. I was able to kill his corruptor and get a jitte down with sfm. Unfortunately he had 5 cards in his graveyard for a 1 mana become immense + berserk + vines protection to stop my path to exile the proceeding turn. Would have connected with jitte the following turn which would have been the game. My loss to lands was the most disappointing match of the weekend. I quickly won game 1 against him. Game 2 and 3 he dispatched my sword of fire ice and rest in peace with krosan grips. I never saw a recruiter or prelate games 2 and 3 and was inevitably killed by his 5th marit lage, which took at least 40 mins to assemble during game 3. Just drew the wrong half of my deck. I really needed the surgical extractions sb this game. Important to note in this matchup, he had a single barbarian ring in his maindeck to deal with sanctum prelates. He said he was 3-0 against D&T for the day because of the barbarian rings.
Overall notes:
I will be removing the Sword of War and Peace from the sb. I think i win about 95% of my matchups vs miracles, so this card seems unnecessary. I know its also good in the mirror, but I still fetch jitte first because it seems to define the game. I will be replacing faerie macabre with a surgical extraction. I didnt see any RB reanimator at any of my tables and extraction would have been much better in other matchups. Cataclysm was unnecessary. The two Gideons seemed to fill this role just fine. I will be adding palace jailer to my mb. I may move a prelate to the sb and up my plains count to 11. Losing to opposing wastelands feels bad (now i know how they feel).
One question i have for others is why include Spirit of the Labyrinth in your 75? I can't think of a single matchup where I'd search this up over a sanctum prelate on 1. For those playing it, what matchups are you actively searching this up for? Also the 1 toughness scares me. There are a lot of games where the opponent has a DRS, token, etc and I'd be unable to attack in.