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Well, I have no space in my main and absolutly prefer Snap over Repeal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralf
Well as AstormBrewing said, is good also vs c.b. and other stuff, in my testing a Thalia as example can be avoided simply with +1 Tide... this is not TES or ANT...
Yes, also good versus Counterbalance (they also run Counterspell, so there's another).Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelikanudo
Well, I am running annul instead of snare.Quote:
Originally Posted by astormbrewing
I guess it comes to being able to hit a Vial or a SDT or not .
The problem has never been Thalia, alone. But she delays our combo turn a lot (our cheap cantrips are very bad at reaching 4 mana). And if she is protected it is even worse.
Against D&T you have to face Mom, SoL, canonist etc...
Against Maverick you have DRS, Gaddock.
And I guess cavern of souls is Vial n°5 as D&T and maverick players are packing at least 1 or 2 copies here.
Solidarity Deck Tech (in German): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkuIVCabSfw
I got to practice my german after a few years of not speaking it :D
So I decided to make Solidarity because I want a combo deck with FoW and Brainstorm. As of now I don't wanna go for Spiral Tide because I don't wanna pay 800€ for 4 Candles so I made a list, what do you guys think of it?
Land 19
11 Island
8 Fetch
Instants 41
4 Opt
4 Brainstorm
4 Reset
4 High Tide
4 Force of Will
4 Impulse
3 Flusterstorm
3 Cunning Wish
3 Dig Through Time (although it may be a bit much, based on goldfishing)
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Snap
1 Turnabout
1 Brain Freeze
1 Blue Sun's Zenith
Sideboard:
1 Dig Through Time
1 Wipe Away
1 Flusterstorm
1 Turnabout
1 Blue Sun's Zenith
1 Rebuild
1 Ravenous Trap
1 Mindbreak Trap
10-15???
How is this list as a start? Do I need some other things? Thanks!
Not playing "Meditate" is certainly an option that deserves a LOT of testing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bosaapje
You have lowered a little bit your "cantripping" mana curve and you might even be able to combo earlier.
But by doing so you are relying even more on your graveyard to generate some card advantage (Snapcaster + DTT).
I'm also very concerned by the fact that with such a list you are really softer to discard strategies.
Finally, your testing must prove that your fizzle rate is 1 game out of 10.
If it is the route you wanna take, I would play a meditate in your sideboard instead of DTT n°4. At least you would have access to a big draw spell not impacted by graveyard hate with your wish.
I would also cut two lands for another fetch. Why ? You have a lot of digging power with your setup with 4 BS, 4 Opt and 4 Impulse. It will increase your odd of having 6 cards in the grave for a T3 -> DTT.
Here is a sample of what could happen at end of your opponent turn:
T1 -> Fetch/Island + BS/Opt for 2nd land
T2 -> Fetch/Island + Impulse for 3rd land /BS+Opt/BS or Opt + remaining mana to counter something
T3 -> Fetch/Island + DTT => to prepare the combo on T4
T4 -> Fetch/Island -> kill
I would try the following config:
9 islands
9 fetch
+1 repeal/remand/snap/what you think of => IMO, better be something which give you a draw.
Happy testing.
Oh I totally forgot Meditate. And I don't really want to take a route, I just want to play a good deck so what would you cut then for 4 Meditates? And do I also need to lower my land count even if I'm going to play Meditate?
Repeal seems pretty good to me, I run it a lot in Vintage where it can take a very diverse role so I'm optimistic of running it.
Well, you should read a couple of pages back.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bosaapje
You will find a few "tournament proof" lists.
Here is my latest list built to fight tempo strategies & hatebears.
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Flooded Strand
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Polluted Delta
10 Island
2 Snapcaster Mage
1 Cunning Wish
1 Brain Freeze
3 Dig Through Time
2 Flusterstorm
4 Force of Will
2 Snap
4 Opt
3 Remand
4 Repeal
4 Brainstorm
4 High Tide
4 Meditate
4 Reset
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Blue Sun's Zenith
SB: 1 Ravenous Trap
SB: 2 Mindbreak Trap
SB: 2 Wipe Away
SB: 3 Spell Snare
SB: 1 Brain Freeze
SB: 1 Rebuild
SB: 1 Flusterstorm
SB: 1 Cunning Wish
If your meta is infest with Sneak & MUD, replace the spell snare by annul.
By no means it is THE list but I did play it (very very few tweaks between MD & side, usually 1 card) to 4 tournaments at least with good results.
So it might be a good starting point for anyone interested in the archetype.
Have fun and don't drop the archetype too fast, this deck DEMANDS a lot of testing.
My meta is a pretty diverse meta with no one big deck that's oppressive so I would like to make a build that's capable of dealing with most decks. Dredge isn't a big one in my meta, so I guess that Ravenous Trap could become a Surgical Extraction but other than that I don't have any thoughts to build the sideboard different than you the one that you posted. Why are there Spell Snares in the board? Is it against Rest in Peace? Or are there more targets like Goyf, just to stop there game plan and give us more time?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralf
Why do you only run 1 Wish? Isn't wish like the all star in the deck? And why no Zenith MB? It's pretty good to continue with comboing or to deck the opponent right?
Well, playing the deck will show you that once you go off, you have easily access to your whole library. So the BSZ is not mandatory MD since you can wish for it during the combo turn if you really need an instant kill.
You are also not cold dead to a resolved chalice on 1.
Yet, we can argue about playing the 2nd wish directly in the board but I have found that with 3 remand you just have sometime the perfect hand to kill T3 (which is not as easy if you need to wish for BF).
It is up to you.
As far as spell snare is concerned, it will help you G2 & G3 against fair decks. Basically, you side out FOW for 3 snare & the 3rd flusterstorm. Against tempo, you will also side out 2 remand for 2 MBT.
Snare will generally deal permanently with the most common threats in legacy. Be it a Tarmo, a snapcaster, dark confidant, thalia, Gaddock, Counterbalance, RIP, Meddling Mage, Eidolon, Canonist, Spirit of the labyrinth, defense grid, Hymn to Tourach, Infernal tutor, "you name it", etc...
Obviously, this will gives you extra time to sculpt the perfect hand before going off.
Against black, I usually side out 1 tide, 1 reset & 1 meditate to avoid any extraction effect on a major combo piece.
Instead, the 2nd wish & the BSZ comes in.
I prefer siding out meditate instead of DTT. As you will likely cope with some grave hate and when it comes to combo if you need to draw you will usually want to use a True draw spell (meditate) and not a conditional one (DTT).
The only awkward MU is miracle. As I tend to side out all tides and to keep 1 or 2 reset MD. This is the hard control route. 2 BF, 2 wish + BSZ + surgical are usually enough to kill miracle with 6 to 10 island in play. You just try to out control them by countering what matters and playing as much land as you can. With 4 meditate + 3 DTT you should have the upper hand in terms of card advantage and Counterspells. Chaining BF is a good way to kill them
Hope these insights will be useful to play the deck.
Remember, take your time. The more land drops you make, the easier it is to win.
And yes you can replace ravenous trap by a 3rd surgical which I would do if dredge is not a common MU.
@Bosapje:
See my list:
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post864771
is Feline list with -1 land + 1 FoW
After some testing which including Mental note and likes I've been very happy with my base - this is the defnitive one at least for me.
looking foaward results from any torunament. Good luck
Thanks to you both. I will practice with some lists and I'll buy the few cards that I still need and I'll take it to a tournament, am curious how I will do at the tournament :)
EDIT: Pelikanudo, your list has 50 cards in it. What other cards do you run?
3 cunning wishQuote:
Originally Posted by Bosaapje
4 impulse
And only 2 snaps.
I hope I'm right. :)
Played solidarity at the weekly legacy tournament in Lund. Here's the list.
CREATURES (4)
4 Snapcaster Mage
INSTANTS (38)
4 Dig Through Time
4 Brainstorm
4 High Tide
4 Flusterstorm
4 Reset
3 Meditate
3 Cunning Wish
4 Thought Scour
4 Opt
4 Force of Will
LANDS (18)
10 Island
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
SIDEBOARD (15)
1 Pearl Lake Ancient
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Blue Sun’s Zenith
1 Turnabout
1 Blue Elemental Blast
1 Swan Song
2 Snap
1 Meditate
1 Brain Freeze
1 Hurkyl’s Recall
1 Echoing Truth
1 Polymorphist’s Jest
2 Wipe Away
I really liked how tight this list felt. Streamlined with a very low curve (opt and thought scour over impulse for example) -> A perfect shell for DTT. From testing I never felt I was running low on actual gas so digging deeper for more mana is not something I really want. With 3 wishes, 4 dig and 3 meditate you'll end up with atleast one in your hand from just opting/scouring/brainstorming/snapcaster-ing. I am are more reliant on the graveyard but it's quite easy to get a BF-kill through RIP anyway so as for now I am all in on DTT. For protection I ran the full playsets of flusterstorm and fow. Some run bounce MD but I don't think you want to bounce stuff G1 often enough to make it worth playing. Combine discard, counterspells and other combo (or even just a cantrip) and compare that to how often you Snap a Thalia for example or wipe away a counterbalance (which you can't cantrip to find anyway). Snap IS a great card but it's not great often enough, even if you add the busted play of Snapping your snapcaster mages. Why would anyone expose themselves to swords to plowshares when going off? With 3 wishes we can still solve most permanentbased hate without diluting the maindeck with stuff like wipe away/snap/repeal. Anyway, with all that said I played pretty much my worst matchups today and boarded out my flusterstorms in 3/4 matchups for 4 different bounce. I still like the list as the tournament wasn't really representative of legacy as a whole.
Goblin Stax (2-0). Forced some hate and comboed without any trouble.
DnT (2-0). He had a slow start and I could finish him off pretty easy. Extra High tides compensates for Thalia. G2 He mulliganed to oblivion. (we played some extra games between rounds and I won them all).
White stax with ethersworn canonist maindeck, and cavern of souls. (1-2). Truly epic games.
BUG tempo with Dark Confidant (1-2). Snapcaster+DTT is great but was not enough.
I never got to try PLA but I think it's quite nice vs Miracles (which is the best deck imo).
I've been playing a lot of Omnishow lately and compared to Solidarity it's less vulnerable to hate and a bit faster. It's not as much fun though. I will continue with both decks as for now :)
that's rightQuote:
Originally Posted by Il_fabious
Quick aside: I love the attribution to Spiral Tide. NOT.Quote:
Originally Posted by feline
Yea they put it in the Spiral Tide slot, I thought that was weird. There actually is a separate Solidarity slot if you look at the Legacy Archives but I guess they don't have one for the current on that site.
That deck is missing 3 cards... I can only guess FoW?Quote:
Originally Posted by feline
More like 7 cards.Quote:
Originally Posted by endqwerty